Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:20 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:58 AM - Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (Geoff Heap)
2. 06:00 AM - Re: Contactor Failure (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Contactor Failure (Ken)
4. 06:51 AM - Contactor Failure ()
5. 07:14 AM - LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Geoff Heap)
6. 07:22 AM - ICOM 210 antenna suggestion (Fergus Kyle)
7. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (BobsV35B@aol.com)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Contactor Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:57 AM - Re: Contactor Failure (joe motis)
10. 09:02 AM - Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:20 AM - Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (PaulR)
12. 09:31 AM - Lamp polarity and unpluggability (messydeer)
13. 09:34 AM - Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion (gmcjetpilot)
14. 09:53 AM - Auxillary Battery Installation... ()
15. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
16. 10:10 AM - Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Geoff Heap)
17. 10:21 AM - Tracking a high resistance joint (Neil Clayton)
18. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR ()
19. 12:00 PM - Re: ICOM 210 antenna suggestion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 12:06 PM - Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Geoff Heap)
22. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 12:48 PM - Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Geoff Heap)
24. 04:30 PM - RE Contactor Failure (emrath)
25. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 04:41 PM - Re: Tracking a high resistance joint (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 05:13 PM - Re: ICOM 210 antenna suggestion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 05:24 PM - Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... (messydeer)
30. 05:36 PM - Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 05:54 PM - Re: RE Contactor Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 06:01 PM - Re: Contactor Failure (Speedy11@aol.com)
34. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Contactor Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
35. 07:56 PM - Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... ()
Message 0
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| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its
my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the
Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really
nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now
is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this
year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation
a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
Bob.
CH701 all metal airplane. I guess I'd rather build my own and save the money. Where
can I get plans for that? As for location, I hadn't given that too much thought
either yet. Just about all locations are available so far.
At some point I will be installing one other antenna for my transponder.
One on top and one on bottom sound OK? Transponder on the bottom?
......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275471#275471
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
After reviewing the endless promotion of the way it has always been done, please
re-read the AeroElectric-Lists posts of October 12-13:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267757
Then--Do it the way the manufacturer suggests. Hey, there's a radical
idea!
Eric's five point plan for elimination contactor failure:
1) Don't use Type-70 contactors for critical tasks.
2) Don't use diodes for coil suppression duty. Use bi-directional Zeners.
3) Follow the manufacturers' suggestions.
4) Ignore the man behind the curtain.
5) Examine carefully the ideas of anybody who claims he can't possibly be wrong.
"Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to
one's self-esteem.That is why young children, before they are aware of their
own self-importance, learn so easily; and why older persons, especially if vain
or important, cannot learn at all."
-Thomas Szasz
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275476#275476
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
Yes I agree we should always use the latest greatest most expensive
solution whether there is any demonstrated need or benefit.
Manufacturers have never overstated or misled anyone. Sound engineering
can't be trusted and we waste our time trying to understand physics anyway.
Ken
do not archive
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> After reviewing the endless promotion of the way it has always been done, please
re-read the AeroElectric-Lists posts of October 12-13:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267757
>
> Then--Do it the way the manufacturer suggests. Hey, there's a radical
> idea!
>
> Eric's five point plan for elimination contactor failure:
>
> 1) Don't use Type-70 contactors for critical tasks.
> 2) Don't use diodes for coil suppression duty. Use bi-directional Zeners.
> 3) Follow the manufacturers' suggestions.
> 4) Ignore the man behind the curtain.
> 5) Examine carefully the ideas of anybody who claims he can't possibly be wrong.
>
> "Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury
to one's self-esteem.That is why young children, before they are aware of their
own self-importance, learn so easily; and why older persons, especially if
vain or important, cannot learn at all."
> -Thomas Szasz
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Contactor Failure |
11/30/2009
Hello Stan, You wrote:
1)"Any folks had a contactor failure?"
Not on my airplane, but as an A&P I am aware of several contactor failures.
Two failure modes that I have personally been involved in are: a) Fine
contactor coil wire fractures because of vibration. b) Main current transfer
bar inside the contactor gets eaten away and no longer makes contact.
Your contactor failure sounds like a third failure mode -- a welded main
current transfer bar because of extremely high current transfer. If you
still have the contactor why not cut it open to confirm?
2) "My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone."
"failure prone" is a very unquantifiable term, but they do definitely fail.
That is why you need a plan B to permit recovery regardless of the mode of
contactor failure.
3) "Did I design in a fault?"
Yes.
4) "Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a contactor between the
hot battery and the starter?"
No, they are built with two contactors between the hot battery and the
starter. A main battery contactor (continuous use type) and a starter
contactor (intermittent use type).
Many starters now days have a contactor / solenoid as part of the starter
itself for the purpose of moving the pinion gear into engagement. (This
eliminates the old Bendix type mechanical starter engagement method.)
That is why when discussing this subject the term "starter contactor" can
lead to some confusion unless the context makes it very clear which one of
the two "starter contactors" one is referring to.
5) "Should I have some other type of disconnect between the battery and the
contactor?"
Yes.
6) "I understood that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the
battery and the
starter solenoid."
Inserting only one contactor in this manner leaves you susceptible to the
welded main bar transfer failure. A separate main battery contactor that in
turn feeds the starter contactor would leave you a means of stopping current
flow to the starter contactor in the case of this type of failure mode.
A separate battery fed essential or endurance bus would leave you a means of
recovery if you suffer either a fine coil wire failure or an eaten away main
transfer bar failure in your battery contactor while flying.
If your starter contactor suffers from either a fine wire failure or an
eaten away main transfer bar failure then you should discover this problem
on the ground because the engine won't crank and your recovery is to just
replace the starter contactor.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
==================================================Time: 05:47:53 PM PST US
From: Speedy11@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure
Any folks had a contactor failure?
My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood
that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the
starter solenoid.
I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position)
after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed
between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec
starter.
If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button
to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter
button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again
thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both
batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10 seconds)
but
the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for
wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was
no
other way.
Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a
contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some
other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor?
Stan Sutterfield
RV-8A flying
Message 5
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| Subject: | LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
Bob or anyone. I cannot find a right angle BNC connector for my Icom A210. I know
this sounds easy but let me explain. I have a Fuel Header tank behind my panel,
against the firewall. When my radio is mounted there is only about 1-1 space
at the rear of the radio available for the Coax cable so I need a Right angle
BNC connector. NOTE I did not say adaptor. The Radio needs a Male PUSH/PULL
connector. Not the twist on twist off. (Those are easy to find). With the radio
came a straight BNC connector. I can push that in and add an adaptor but the
combined length of the two is too much. What I need is a right angle PUSH/PULL
Male or even a Tee connection Male-female/female. Cruising around the web
I can't seem to find one. Surely they exist? Your assistance would be real nice.....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275490#275490
Message 6
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| Subject: | ICOM 210 antenna suggestion |
(1) See any aged member of your local Amateur Radio club for the
formula
and shape of a =BC-wave vertical,
(2) Invite him to see your project and he might just make you one,
and
(3) Stick it on top for better coverage of Ground Control at some
airports.
Ferg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
Good Morning Geoff,
Just to complicate things a bit, let's think about drag.
Most speed gurus will tell us that the airflow around the majority of our
airframes meets its peak speed while traveling over the top of the
fuselage. That being said, it is nice to impede that airflow as little as possible.
We are also told that the further aft any obstacle is placed, the less
drag it will develop. Once again, the bottom of most of our airplanes has the
most disturbed air so an additional disturbance will have a lower increase
in drag down there than it would when mounted on top. A round object has a
lot more drag than one that is streamlined. That is why the more expensive
antennas are streamlined.
Back in my glider flying days, we often used antennas that we stuck through
a hole in the bottom of the sailplanes when we wanted to use the radio.
Sort of a retractable antenna thing. We also tended to leave the radio turned
off when not in use so as to save the battery power. Obviously, we used
those wound style fiberglass antennas that did not require a ground plane.
Couldn't have been very efficient, but they did serve our purpose.
A bottom mounted antenna works great when airborne, but suffers in range
when on the ground. It is not unusual to be able to raise a nearby RCO with a
top mounted antenna when a bottom mounted one will not work. There are
also problems that occur when you are parked or taxiing over steel bar
re-enforced concrete surfaces.
As to the transponder antenna. I have never seen one mounted anywhere but
on the belly, but I don't know why. I do know that I have personally broken
several of the small wire types when cleaning the belly. Because of that, I
have bitten the bullet and now install only those horribly expensive
little shark fin antennas for the transponder and DME.
Adding to all those difficulties is the separation distance that all radio
antenna manufacturers tell us we need. If we space them as far apart and as
far from vertical components of the aircraft as are suggested by the
antenna manufacturers, we would need a homebuilt the size of a 747.
So I guess what I am really saying is: Give it a shot and see what happens.
If you don't like the result, try something else.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 11/30/2009 6:59:51 A.M. Central Standard Time,
stol10@comcast.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Bob.
CH701 all metal airplane. I guess I'd rather build my own and save the
money. Where can I get plans for that? As for location, I hadn't given that
too much thought either yet. Just about all locations are available so far.
At some point I will be installing one other antenna for my transponder.
One on top and one on bottom sound OK? Transponder on the bottom?
......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275471#275471
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
At 07:57 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>After reviewing the endless promotion of the way it has always been
>done, please re-read the AeroElectric-Lists posts of October 12-13:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267757
>
>Then--Do it the way the manufacturer suggests. Hey, there's a radical
>idea!
>
>Eric's five point plan for elimination contactor failure:
>
>1) Don't use Type-70 contactors for critical tasks.
The failed contactor wasn't a type-70.
>2) Don't use diodes for coil suppression duty. Use bi-directional Zeners.
How is it that you deduce a plain diode suppression
system as a contributing cause for the failure
being discussed? I hypothesized a cause for
the failure based on 40+ years observation/
experience with the PM motors in general and PM
starters in particular. Do you have an alternative
hypothesis? I'd be pleased to know it.
>3) Follow the manufacturers' suggestions.
Which suggestions, if any, were being ignored
in the instance before us?
>
>4) Ignore the man behind the curtain.
I'm not behind any curtain. Every word I've ever
written has been archived and made available for
critical review by anyone having an interest.
>5) Examine carefully the ideas of anybody who claims he can't
>possibly be wrong.
Eric, you've been invited numerous times to offer
alternative recipes for success supported by analysis
of simple-ideas and underlying physics. You have yet
to offer anything beyond parroting bad articles
with mis-applied data and/or facts taken out of context.
I claim nothing about the infallibility of simple-
ideas or recipes for success offered in my writing.
Nobody would be more pleased than I to know of any
errors of fact or logic. If you have a point of
physics and/or proven practice for us to examine,
please make it.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
Hey OC,
What an accurate and reasoned answer to Stans question. Thank you for
sharing it with the list.
Joe Motis
CH 750 WW Corvair
do not archive
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:20 AM, <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
> 11/30/2009
>
> Hello Stan, You wrote:
>
> 1)"Any folks had a contactor failure?"
>
> Not on my airplane, but as an A&P I am aware of several contactor failures.
> Two failure modes that I have personally been involved in are: a) Fine
> contactor coil wire fractures because of vibration. b) Main current transfer
> bar inside the contactor gets eaten away and no longer makes contact.
>
> Your contactor failure sounds like a third failure mode -- a welded main
> current transfer bar because of extremely high current transfer. If you
> still have the contactor why not cut it open to confirm?
>
> 2) "My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone."
>
> "failure prone" is a very unquantifiable term, but they do definitely fail.
> That is why you need a plan B to permit recovery regardless of the mode of
> contactor failure.
>
> 3) "Did I design in a fault?"
>
> Yes.
>
> 4) "Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a contactor between the
> hot battery and the starter?"
>
> No, they are built with two contactors between the hot battery and the
> starter. A main battery contactor (continuous use type) and a starter
> contactor (intermittent use type).
>
> Many starters now days have a contactor / solenoid as part of the starter
> itself for the purpose of moving the pinion gear into engagement. (This
> eliminates the old Bendix type mechanical starter engagement method.)
>
> That is why when discussing this subject the term "starter contactor" can
> lead to some confusion unless the context makes it very clear which one of
> the two "starter contactors" one is referring to.
>
> 5) "Should I have some other type of disconnect between the battery and
> the contactor?"
>
> Yes.
>
> 6) "I understood that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the
> battery and the
> starter solenoid."
>
> Inserting only one contactor in this manner leaves you susceptible to the
> welded main bar transfer failure. A separate main battery contactor that in
> turn feeds the starter contactor would leave you a means of stopping current
> flow to the starter contactor in the case of this type of failure mode.
>
> A separate battery fed essential or endurance bus would leave you a means
> of recovery if you suffer either a fine coil wire failure or an eaten away
> main transfer bar failure in your battery contactor while flying.
>
> If your starter contactor suffers from either a fine wire failure or an
> eaten away main transfer bar failure then you should discover this problem
> on the ground because the engine won't crank and your recovery is to just
> replace the starter contactor.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> ==================================================Time: 05:47:53 PM PST US
> From: Speedy11@aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure
>
> Any folks had a contactor failure?
> My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood
> that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the
> starter solenoid.
> I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position)
> after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed
> between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec
> starter.
> If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button
> to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter
> button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again
> thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both
> batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10
> seconds) but
> the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for
> wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was
> no
> other way.
>
> Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a
> contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some
> other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor?
> Stan Sutterfield
> RV-8A flying
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 09:11 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob or anyone. I cannot find a right angle BNC
>connector for my Icom A210. I know this sounds
>easy but let me explain. I have a Fuel Header
>tank behind my panel, against the firewall. When
>my radio is mounted there is only about
>1-1 space at the rear of the radio
>available for the Coax cable so I need a Right
>angle BNC connector. NOTE I did not say adaptor.
>The Radio needs a Male PUSH/PULL connector. Not
>the twist on twist off. (Those are easy to
>find). With the radio came a straight BNC
>connector. I can push that in and add an adaptor
>but the combined length of the two is too much.
>What I need is a right angle PUSH/PULL Male or
>even a Tee connection Male-female/female.
>Cruising around the web I can't seem to find
>one. Surely they exist? Your assistance would be real nice.....Geoff
The connector your looking for is:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/Ted_9-30-10.jpg
Did a search on TED, "9-30-10", and connector and got 24,000 hits.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
Bob,
Is it possible to find one of these that is a crimp on? I need to replace the
one on the back of my GTX-327 and I'd rather have a crimp on than a solder connection.
Thanks
Paul
--------
Paul Rose
N417PR (res)
RV-9A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275511#275511
Message 12
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| Subject: | Lamp polarity and unpluggability |
Hello!
Got a couple questions about lamp wiring. I bought a couple 12 volt LED lamps from
Radioshack, #272-345 the other day. The pic below is from their site. My terminals
have a couple tiny solder tabs instead of the wires shown.
The lamp needs to be inserted from the front of the panel, with the lone locknut
coming in from behind. So if I solder the tabs to the wires, I'll have to cut
them to take the lamp out. I understand it would be good to place a rectifying
diode across the leads in spike catcher fashion. $.85 for the lamp and $.60
for the diode. Think I might be able to afford a new one if I need to replace
it.
I soldered on and heat shrunk a couple 3" leads to these and figure I'll solder
or butt splice them along with the diode leads to the supply and ground leads
of my panel. Unless there's a niftier way, I figure putting in male and femal
fastons is overkill, adding another 10 minutes of construction time, 0.1 oz
of weight, and $.40 of my hard earned cash. But I'm curious if there's an easier
way for something like this where it really would be nice to have unpluggability.
After I soldered leads to both little LED lamps it occurred to me that polarity
might be an issue. Oh, yeah, the 'D' in LED! I read that hooked up one way there
would be no light. The lamp solder tabs are covered up with solder and heat
shrink now, but as far as I recall, they looked identical to each other. I hooked
up the leads to my 12V battery and the light worked. Also worked with the
leads reversed, which confuses me.
I also flipped my Flukometer to diode mode. It measured 0.016V positive and zero
with the leads reversed. Just for kicks, I did the same with the incandescent
lamp and it measured 0.015V in both directions.
I had wired that little yellow incandescent lamp provided with the B&C alternator
disconnect relay kit the same way, soldering the tabs to short leads and putting
on heat shrink. This lamp also worked regardless of lead orientation, which
was what I thought should happen.
So it looks like I don't need to pay any attention to the polarity of either of
these types of lamps. Is that right?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275516#275516
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/6a_50v_radioshack_diode_253.jpg
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
Geoff Heap wrote:
> Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna for a Icom
A210....Thanks Geoff
Your radio has nothing to do with it, it is a VHF com.
I did not read all the responses but in general you have two choices, Fiberglas
and stainless steel. From there you can go with a straight (but angled back)
or a bent whip, 90 degrees or 45 degrees are typical,
The length of ALL VHF com antennas for GA use are in the 20" ballpark total length
tape measure length, regardless if it is bent or straight. The exception is
high speed jet aircraft, which use blade type antennas, forget that, unless
you are doing plus 250 kts.
Than the last factor is mounting. There really is only one mount with three or
four bolt (screw) pattern, which has a BNC jack to attach your feed-line (coaxial).
So far so good. There is a el-cheep-o version which was standard in the
50's and you can still buy it new today, they are cheaper and that is the single
hole, bushing mount. It is terminated with two spade lugs and screws, nuts
and washers. OK. Some people swear by them....
If I was you, I'd spend the $100-$150 and get a good whip with a base (3 bolt or
4) and BNC connector. I did get two nice whips from eBay a few years ago for
cheap... but I lucked out. There are only two brands that come to mind, just
check Spruce for pictures and ideas. DON'T GO CHEAP HERE.... get good coaxial.
You may want some one to make you some RG400 cable with BNC connectors.
Personally for me RG58 A/U or LMR195 is fine, especially for the short runs in
GA aircraft. LMR195 is a modern RG58 with slightly better specs. RG400 is the
king of small coaxial but needs the right kind of BNC connector and crimp tool
(not cheap). I'm all set up to make RG58 A/U or LMR195 cables, I have a roll
of it, connectors and a very expensive AMP tool die to make cables for myself.
You DO WANT stranded center conductor NOT solid. The "A" in RG58 A/U means stranded.
The coaxial and antenna is 90% of the radio.
Good Luck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275517#275517
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| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery 12V,
7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not
used batteries with fast-on tabs before.
What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the battery
to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the
normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run
is 10 feet from behind my seat.
B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable
cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.
Thanks,
Glenn
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
Consider one of the John Deere tractor regulators
like the AM101406. These are heavy duty critters with
hefty heat sinks.
http://tinyurl.com/yarwkv3
Bob . . .
Would you recommend this JD regulator over the generic Ford regulator? Are
they pin compatable?
Roger
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have. If I now connect
a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit into my panel. I need
a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can slide my radio into place, but
only just. Go to the link below and see the fourth picture. If that tee connector
was a PUSH/PULL male instead of a Twist on/off male it would work.
http://www.youravcablestore.com/rca-to-bnc-adapter.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275522#275522
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Tracking a high resistance joint |
My alternator is putting out 14+ volts but I'm only seeing low 13's
at the panel bus, suggesting a high resistance joint somewhere on the
way to the panel.
Any ideas on how to diagnose the bad joint would be appreciated. My
limited knowledge of Ohm's law says that the resistance drop across
the bad joint will be too tiny to detect with a standard meter and I
probably won't find it that way.
Thanks for ideas.
Neil C
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
As Bob's picture shows, the 9-30-10 IS a 90-degree connector - coax comes
out the small opening shown at the top and that would be 90-degrees from the
connector that mates with the radio. What you are describing doesn't add
up. I have the Icom A200 installed (same tray).
Are you using the radio mounting tray? If so, then it has one of these
connectors natively installed in the tray and it IS already 90-degree. If
you have the tray installed in the panel, and the panel on the plane, that
is as far forward at it gets. Sliding the radio into the tray changes
nothing dimensionally.
Are you describing "sliding" the mounting tray into position in the panel?
If you are, I think you are going to have to "make" some room on that header
tank, re-position the radio tray, or change to a shorter radio.
A picture or two here might help us all understand what your specific
problem is.
James Redmon
Berkut #013/Race 13
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR
>
> Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have. If I
> now connect a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit into my
> panel. I need a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can slide my
> radio into place, but only just. Go to the link below and see the fourth
> picture. If that tee connector was a PUSH/PULL male instead of a Twist
> on/off male it would work.
> http://www.youravcablestore.com/rca-to-bnc-adapter.html
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: ICOM 210 antenna suggestion |
At 09:15 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>(1) See any aged member of your local Amateur
>Radio club for the formula and shape of a =BC-wave vertical,
>(2) Invite him to see your project and he might just make you one, and
>(3) Stick it on top for better coverage of Ground Control at some
airports.
>
All of which is dead-on accurate. I've constructed several
DIY comm antennas with the idea of publishing a how-to article.
Haven't produced a recipe-for-success that I'm ready to
offer.
The EASY part about building an antenna is cutting off a
chunk of material the optimal length to become an efficient
antenna. The not-so-easy part is mounting the antenna
to the airplane such that it doesn't twist in the hole,
maintains low resistance contact with coax center conductor,
good connection with airframe as a grounding surface,
is fabricated in a manner that will withstand years
of inattention and hours of buffeting in hurricane force winds.
Emacs!
Here's a snapshot from the 'Connection (Figure 13-8) that
illustrates some of the $low$ antennas that were popular
about the same time the Narco "coffegrinder" radio was
a radio of choice in SE light aircraft.
Threaded rods, ceramic feed-through insulators and
ordinary PIDG terminals did the job for us then . . .
sorta. Cessna used to install similar antennas in
production. If you don't mind replacing the occasional
broken rod, refurbishing corroded terminations, suffering
leaks in the skin, etc. etc. This approach will perform
ELECTRICALLY as well as anything you can buy today.
If any of the List members have devised a means by which
more robust antennas have been crafted, can you share it
with us? In the mean time, I'll see about cleaning up
some ideas I've been exploring and getting them published.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 11:17 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Is it possible to find one of these that is a crimp on? I need to
>replace the one on the back of my GTX-327 and I'd rather have a
>crimp on than a solder connection.
>
>Thanks
Not that I'm aware of. I think TED created that connector
for King radio way back when and it sorta grew on the rest
of the industry. It hasn't been a fast mover for anything
other than aircraft. They're not hard to solder ESPECIALLY
if you're using modern coax with hi-temp insulation. I.e.
RG400 or equal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
Thanks James. I just spoke to support at Iacom. I was directed to the installation
guide for the a200. This guide uses the fitting that Bob suggested. However,
they showed how to solder the connector, which made clear to me the fact that
the small opening IS the 90 connection. I thought that Bob was offering me
another straight connector. For the A210, IACOM switched from the part that you
have James to the straight one that I have. Problem solved now. Thanks to allGeoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275542#275542
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 12:09 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have.
>If I now connect a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit
>into my panel. I need a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can
>slide my radio into place, but only just. Go to the link below and
>see the fourth picture. If that tee connector was a PUSH/PULL male
>instead of a Twist on/off male it would work.
Are you talking about THIS guy?
Emacs!
I can't imagine that this style of connection is any part of
an Icom product. The male end of this adapter is an RCA Audio
connector not often used at RF by anyone. My copy of the Icom
install manual has this image:
Emacs!
Icom appears to have acquired a STRAIGHT version of the TED
connector with a BNC female termination on it. This would
nicely accommodate both aircraft and ground/portable ops
with any combination of BNC adapters and rubber-duck antennas.
The Icom supplied connector is not one I've seen before. TED
may even have built the thing. The TED connector I suggested
will, I believe, replace the BNC adapter described above
and allow you to attach the feedline coax directly
to the tray connector. Alternatively you can install a short
pigtail of RG400 on the tray connector with a cable female
on the other end so that you're transition to the world
of BNC connectors is preserved.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
Bob. Your first "take" on my problem was correct. I just didn't realise that the
opening on the side was for the coax to be inserted. Please see my post on the
other thread and Thanks...Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275547#275547
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE Contactor Failure |
I failed a battery contactor during my build up process about a year ago.
The plane had not flown and the starter never used. I went to "light up the
panel" for about the 20th demo and it didn't pull in. B&C replaced the
contactor at no cost. I still have the contactor, intending to do an autopsy
sometime.
Marty in Brentwood TN
Time: 05:47:53 PM PST US
From: Speedy11@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure
Any folks had a contactor failure?
My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood
that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the
starter solenoid.
I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position)
after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed
between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec
starter.
If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button
to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter
button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again
thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both
batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10 seconds)
but
the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for
wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was
no
other way.
Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a
contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some
other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor? Stan
Sutterfield RV-8A flying
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 12:09 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have.
>If I now connect a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit
>into my panel. I need a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can
>slide my radio into place, but only just. Go to the link below and
>see the fourth picture. If that tee connector was a PUSH/PULL male
>instead of a Twist on/off male it would work.
Are you talking about THIS guy?
Emacs!
I can't imagine that this style of connection is any part of
an Icom product. The male end of this adapter is an RCA Audio
connector not often used at RF by anyone. My copy of the Icom
install manual has this image:
Emacs!
Icom appears to have acquired a STRAIGHT version of the TED
connector with a BNC female termination on it. This would
nicely accommodate both aircraft and ground/portable ops
with any combination of BNC adapters and rubber-duck antennas.
The Icom supplied connector is not one I've seen before. TED
may even have built the thing. The TED connector I suggested
will, I believe, replace the BNC adapter described above
and allow you to attach the feedline coax directly
to the tray connector. Alternatively you can install a short
pigtail of RG400 on the tray connector with a cable female
on the other end so that you're transition to the world
of BNC connectors is preserved.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 11:17 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Is it possible to find one of these that is a crimp on? I need to
>replace the one on the back of my GTX-327 and I'd rather have a
>crimp on than a solder connection.
>
>Thanks
Not that I'm aware of. I think TED created that connector
for King radio way back when and it sorta grew on the rest
of the industry. It hasn't been a fast mover for anything
other than aircraft. They're not hard to solder ESPECIALLY
if you're using modern coax with hi-temp insulation. I.e.
RG400 or equal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Tracking a high resistance joint |
At 12:15 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>My alternator is putting out 14+ volts but I'm only seeing low 13's
>at the panel bus, suggesting a high resistance joint somewhere on
>the way to the panel.
>Any ideas on how to diagnose the bad joint would be appreciated. My
>limited knowledge of Ohm's law says that the resistance drop across
>the bad joint will be too tiny to detect with a standard meter and I
>probably won't find it that way.
You're right, attempting to measure very small
resistances with the commercial off the shelf
multimeter is not in the cards.
However, the same instrument can measure VOLTAGES
and in particular, DIFFERENCE voltages. Hook your
(+) meter lead to the alternator b-terminal. Fire
up the engine. Turn lots of stuff ON and then probe
the pathway between b-terminal and the bus with the
(-) lead of your voltmeter.
If it's not practical to do this with the engine
running, then temporarily hook a charged AGM battery
from b-terminal to ground. Perhaps you can fabricate
a jumper to run from your hot side of the battery
contactor over to the b-lead. Do this with a piece
of 10AWG or larger and include a series fuse of 30A
at the battery end. . . . make the battery pretend to be
an alternator. Leave the battery master OFF, turn
on lots of stuff and then probe the path from alternator
b-lead to the bus.
In big airplanes, we do this with a constant current
power supply set up to deliver 30 or so amps over the
power path to be explored. I do have a whippy micro-
ohmmeter but prefer the constant current technique
and voltmeter.
When you have access to the power supply, the rest
of the airplane can be OFF while the survey is being
conducted.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: ICOM 210 antenna suggestion |
At 09:15 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>(1) See any aged member of your local Amateur
>Radio club for the formula and shape of a =BC-wave vertical,
>(2) Invite him to see your project and he might just make you one, and
>(3) Stick it on top for better coverage of Ground Control at some
airports.
>
All of which is dead-on accurate. I've constructed several
DIY comm antennas with the idea of publishing a how-to article.
Haven't produced a recipe-for-success that I'm ready to
offer.
The EASY part about building an antenna is cutting off a
chunk of material the optimal length to become an efficient
antenna. The not-so-easy part is mounting the antenna
to the airplane such that it doesn't twist in the hole,
maintains low resistance contact with coax center conductor,
good connection with airframe as a grounding surface,
is fabricated in a manner that will withstand years
of inattention and hours of buffeting in hurricane force winds.
Emacs!
Here's a snapshot from the 'Connection (Figure 13-8) that
illustrates some of the $low$ antennas that were popular
about the same time the Narco "coffegrinder" radio was
a radio of choice in SE light aircraft.
Threaded rods, ceramic feed-through insulators and
ordinary PIDG terminals did the job for us then . . .
sorta. Cessna used to install similar antennas in
production. If you don't mind replacing the occasional
broken rod, refurbishing corroded terminations, suffering
leaks in the skin, etc. etc. This approach will perform
ELECTRICALLY as well as anything you can buy today.
If any of the List members have devised a means by which
more robust antennas have been crafted, can you share it
with us? In the mean time, I'll see about cleaning up
some ideas I've been exploring and getting them published.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Did you see the link to "outline drawing" on the page that describes this battery?
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/bc102-1.pdf
It says they are 3/16" male fastons on this battery.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275573#275573
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... |
At 11:45 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery 12V,
>7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not
>used batteries with fast-on tabs before.
>
>What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the battery
>to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the
>normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run
>is 10 feet from behind my seat.
Z-30 is suggested for batteries capable of assisting
with getting the engine started. The 7.2 a.h. battery
can't help with cranking.
Z-35 shows lighter wiring and hardware for small aux
batteries.
>B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable
>cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.
AGM batteries don't need a battery box. They're
spill-proof. Containing escaping liquid and venting
copious out-gassing is the only reason we put boxes
around batteries in the first place. AGM/RG batteries
can strap down in a simple tray. You don't need a
contactor, just a 30A plastic relay as described in
Z-30. What is the 10-foot run about? Your aux battery
should be right next to the main battery as should the
aux battery fuse block. Wires from the fuse block can
be any necessary length.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
At 11:55 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
> Consider one of the John Deere tractor regulators
> like the AM101406. These are heavy duty critters with
> hefty heat sinks.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yarwkv3
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>Would you recommend this JD regulator over the generic Ford
>regulator? Are they pin compatable?
The "Generic Ford Regulator" is for wound field
alternators. The JD RECTIFIER/REGULATOR is for
permanent magnet alternators.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: RE Contactor Failure |
At 06:27 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I failed a battery contactor during my build up process about a year ago.
>The plane had not flown and the starter never used. I went to "light up the
>panel" for about the 20th demo and it didn't pull in. B&C replaced the
>contactor at no cost. I still have the contactor, intending to do an autopsy
>sometime.
I'd be pleased to do that for you and report to the
List . . . or in any event, please let us know what
you discover.
I was make privy to an interesting failure in a Type-70
product some time back. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Failures/W-R_RBM_3-Terminal_2s.jpg
. . . seems the solder terminal for the coil wire was
mis-clocked 90 degrees and was arcing against the
moving contact ring when the contactor was energized.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1a.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1e.jpg
This contactor was a later manufacturing date and did
not use the same process for bringing coil current out.
The joint is shielded in later production.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1b.jpg
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
I reviewed my wiring diagrams and I did not run my starter current through
the battery master prior to going to the starter contactor and then to the
starter solenoid. I will make the correction.
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Suggest you rewire to eliminate the external, intermittant
duty starter contactor. Run your starter current through
the battery master as suggested in the drawings. Buffer
the inrush current to your starter contactor as suggested
in Z-22.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
At 07:59 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>I reviewed my wiring diagrams and I did not run my starter current
>through the battery master prior to going to the starter contactor
>and then to the starter solenoid. I will make the correction.
That change would prevent a repeat of your most
recent experience. But if the failed intermittent
duty contactor has been replaced with the same
part, then you may be setting yourself up for
an identical albeit less traumatic repeat.
It may be that your starter contactor is not necessary
at all. Have you considered using only that contactor
which is fitted to the starter? How did you wire the
starter contactor's engagement power terminal?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Thanks Bob and Dan,
My 10 foot deal was to move the battery behind the seat as I am short of
room on the firewall where the primary battery is. If necessary I may be
able to strap this thing inside the firewall behind the panel to keep
the wires short.
The B & C Notes indicated a 3.0 Amp charging limit? Is that an issue
with the charge coming off the alternator?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 11:45 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery
12V,
>7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not
>used batteries with fast-on tabs before.
>
>What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the
battery
>to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the
>normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run
>is 10 feet from behind my seat.
Z-30 is suggested for batteries capable of assisting
with getting the engine started. The 7.2 a.h. battery
can't help with cranking.
Z-35 shows lighter wiring and hardware for small aux
batteries.
>B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable
>cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.
AGM batteries don't need a battery box. They're
spill-proof. Containing escaping liquid and venting
copious out-gassing is the only reason we put boxes
around batteries in the first place. AGM/RG batteries
can strap down in a simple tray. You don't need a
contactor, just a 30A plastic relay as described in
Z-30. What is the 10-foot run about? Your aux battery
should be right next to the main battery as should the
aux battery fuse block. Wires from the fuse block can
be any necessary length.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
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