Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:24 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:58 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Steve Thomas)
3. 09:00 AM - AW: Hobbs Meter (Alfred - Aviatik)
4. 09:06 AM - Engine oil starvation (Rino)
5. 09:07 AM - Engine oil starvation (Rino)
6. 09:29 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Gilles Thesee)
7. 10:05 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (JOHN TIPTON)
8. 10:17 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Rob Housman)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Gilles Thesee)
10. 10:29 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Gilles Thesee)
11. 11:46 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (Rob Housman)
12. 11:47 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
13. 03:00 PM - Lopresti HID claims (XeVision)
14. 04:45 PM - Re: Lopresti HID claims (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 05:12 PM - Re: Lopresti HID claims (XeVision)
16. 05:12 PM - It's a mystery to me (Steve Hamer)
17. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 07:20 PM - Re: It's a mystery to me (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 10:37 PM - Re: It's a mystery to me (Steve Hamer)
Message 1
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At 08:58 PM 12/4/2009, you wrote:
>
>Check this link out.
>http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
That's pretty slick. It would be interesting to
put it side-by-side with another meter to see
how discriminating it is with respect to vibration
from an engine and other potential "noises". Does
anyone on the List have one of these installed?
Bob . . .
Message 2
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I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4 different
mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do not tell you
which mounting they have offered. See:
http://tinyurl.com/yhhxn53
Steve Thomas
________________________________________________________________________
On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:58 PM, jerb wrote:
>
> Check this link out.
> http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
>
Message 3
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Craig,
Comco Ikarus (http://www.comco-ikarus.de/) sells a small device that powers
the hobbs meter with AC juice from the alternator. Not cheap (65 Euros) but
does what you are looking for.
Regards, Alfred
------------------------------------------------
Alfred Buess, Europa XS HB-YKI
Message 4
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Subject: | Engine oil starvation |
Here is the photo of the end housing damage.
Rino Lacombe
Message 5
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Subject: | Engine oil starvation |
Sorry about the preceding message, my mistake, wrong address.
Rino Lacombe
Message 6
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Steve Thomas a crit :
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4 different
mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do not tell you
which mounting they have offered.
Here's a link to the manufacturer data sheet :
http://www.enmco.com/pdf/675.PDF
Wag Aero's products seems to be the T54C1 'Rectangle Panel Mount w/ 2
Holes'.
Most interesting. No wire, no connection, no nothing ;-)
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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I had a look at these items, and they all have a 8 year battery life, but
cannot be replaced - does anyone not think this could be a problem !!!
Regards: John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Thomas" <lists@stevet.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4
> different mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce
> do not tell you which mounting they have offered. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yhhxn53
>
>
> Steve Thomas
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:58 PM, jerb wrote:
>
>>
>> Check this link out.
>> http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
the airframe, or for an average private pilot, the engine.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Steve Thomas a crit :
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4
different mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do
not tell you which mounting they have offered.
Here's a link to the manufacturer data sheet :
http://www.enmco.com/pdf/675.PDF
Wag Aero's products seems to be the T54C1 'Rectangle Panel Mount w/ 2
Holes'.
Most interesting. No wire, no connection, no nothing ;-)
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 9
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JOHN TIPTON a crit :
> <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
> I had a look at these items, and they all have a 8 year battery life, but
> cannot be replaced - does anyone not think this could be a problem !!!
>
You have a point here, but is replacing a 35-45 $ item every eight year
or so really a problem ?
How many batteries, hoses, filters, brake pads mechanical parts will we
have to replace before that time ?
Just thinking.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 10
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Rob Housman a crit :
>
> To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
> non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
> the airframe,
Like with any other hourmeter, just enter the total time and date of
replacement in the airframe or engine logbook.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 11
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Actually I had in mind Reagan's famous "Trust but verify."
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Rob Housman a crit :
<rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>
> To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
> non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
> the airframe,
Like with any other hourmeter, just enter the total time and date of
replacement in the airframe or engine logbook.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 12
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>
> To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
> non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
> the airframe,
Like with any other hourmeter, just enter the total time and date of
replacement in the airframe or engine logbook.
Sounds to me like it is more hassle than benefit. Many
mechanics don't read all log entries for past years thus it gets forgotten.
Is there an alarm on the unit to indicate low battery, or does it just quit
and allow you to keep on flying without logging time??
Roger
Message 13
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Subject: | Lopresti HID claims |
I order to avoid taking anything out of context I have posted the entire add from
Lopresti personnel on the COPA (Cirrus) forums at the end of this post. Here
is a link as well:
http://www.cirruspilots.org/forums/p/116256/479507.aspx#479507
They have made this same ridiculously exaggerated claim a few times in other adds
and on their website in the last couple of years, even from their employees
who claim to be "technical" and not "sales oriented."
"more light than a 747 and more than 1 million Lumens."
Facts are, a 35 watt HID including the ballast requires about 40 watts (input)
to operate. It produces about 3200 lumens = Net result 91.4 lumens per watt from
the bulb (35w) but including the ballast power losses, 80 lumens per watt,
power going into the ballast. Now for a 50 watt HID (output to the bulb) the ballast
will pull about 56 watts. This system produces about 5300 lumens. That
makes 106 lumens per watt from the bulb and 95 lumens per watt again including
the ballast losses.
Using these numbers plugged into the Lopresti claim of 1 million Lumens seen below.
Here is the actual math: with 5300 lumens from a 50 watt HID you would need
188 HID systems to produce 1 million lumens.
Using instead 35 watt HID systems as they typically do, producing 3200 lumens each,
it would require 312 HID systems. Obviously impossible. They are confusing
Lumens with candlepower which are totally different. measurements with much
different meanings. To produce 1,000,000 lumens using HID would require 800-1000
amps in a 12/14 VDC system or 10,500 to 12,500 watts (10.5 KW or 12.5 KW) To
accomplish this you would need some VERY BIG capacity alternators or a ~20 HP
generator just to run the lights. I won't waste any more time to show how rediculous
this claim is.
I can also assure you that a 747 has MUCH more landing light lumens output than
the 3 HID lights Lopresti is selling in this package offering.
The arguement could be made that this (747 statement) is meant as a "tongue in
cheek" statement but the 1,000,000 lumens claim cannot.
I wish someone would "call them on the carpet" for these un challenged claims.
If anyone here is a COPA member or knows someone who is, please do so.
My point is they claim to be the experts on HID but then this kind of false information
comes much (ALL) too frequently from them. When marketing their HID products.
Dan Blumel - XeVision
av8her Posted: 4 Dec 2009 12:32
rated by 0 users "But what if I want ALL your lights?
You asked, so we're answering...
LoPresti is pleased to offer a COPA-exclusive package deal for our SR22 G1/G2 TriTips,
bundled with our X2 BoomBeam cowling light for $5995.00 (Retail $7443.00)
This is the most comprehensive lighting offer we have ever extended to COPA members.
With this package, your light output be over 1 million Lumens!! Just to
give you an idea of the scale of that measurement that's more light than a Boeing
747.
Aircraft lighting is not only important for safety of flight at night, but it is
also imperative for daytime flight recognition. New automotive and motorcycle
manufacturers clearly understand the safety benefits "Lights on" 24/7.
Details: The X2 technology, developed by LoPresti Aviation, is a powerful High
Intensity Discharge (HID) lighting system designed specifically for aviation that
consumes less power while increasing light output 300%-500% (tunable)!! The
TriTips are modified wing tips that have HID BoomBeam lights in each side. To
install the light pocket in your existing tips, we will bond the lighting system
behind a custom designed lens assembly. (Your decals will be stripped off
and your tips repainted Cirrus white).
* This offer is limited to one group of 10 COPA members by January 31, 2010.
* In order to be included on the list, you must sign up on the COPA thread for
this discount.
List price: TriTips $6495, X2 BoomBeam $948 = $7,443 (+ S&H)
COPA offer - lighting package: TriTips and X2 BoomBeam = $5995 (+ S&H)
Shipping for this mod is $250-$500.
This offer applies to SR22 serial numbers 0002 thru 2437.
Allison Bergan
allison@loprestaviation.com
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276380#276380
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Lopresti HID claims |
><snip>
>"more light than a 747 and more than 1 million Lumens."
<snip>
>Using these numbers plugged into the Lopresti claim of 1 million
>Lumens seen below. Here is the actual math: with 5300 lumens from a
>50 watt HID you would need 188 HID systems to produce 1 million lumens.
I'm wondering if they're not confusing LUMENS of total
light output with a luminance of 1,000,000 Beam Center
Candle Power.
>My point is they claim to be the experts on HID but then this kind
>of false information comes much (ALL) too frequently from them. When
>marketing their HID products.
Yeah . . . that 747 thing seems a bit of a stretch.
Raytheon did some light measurements on a Lopresti
system we installed on a Bonanza about 10 years ago.
I'll see if I can dig up the report. BTW, the system
they were offering then was not selected for production . . .
but then I don't know who was driving the program either.
It may have been a simple, inquisitive look-see.
But I do recall that some folks from the metrics
lab took some pattern data on the fixture.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Lopresti HID claims |
Yes, I agree but they used to talk candle power for at least 5 years prior then
recently (2-3 years ago) switched to using Lumens instead.
Just added this to the first post.
Here is another link advertising this "hype": http://media.sbwire.com/files/Cirrus_AD.pdf
Just do a google search on "lopresti 1 million lumens" and you will find many pages
of this stuff over the last 2-3 years. Anywhere from 750,000 lumens combined
output from 2 lights to over 1,000,000 lumens from 3 of their HID lights of
combined output. We even told AeroNews about the problem (wrote Jim a letter,
which he did get) a couple of years ago when they did a "news" article (adds
credibility) including those claims and debunking it from a technical viewpoint
as I just did here. Jim never responded except to getting it, I guess he never
passed it on to them for comment ???
Dan
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276397#276397
Message 16
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Subject: | It's a mystery to me |
The flap motor on my RV-6 was occasionally not wanting to run so I took
it apart and cleaned up the excess grease per Van's instructions. All
went well but when I put it back in the plane it was running
backwards...down was up and up was down with the flap switch. I didn't
switch the wiring because I had a two wire plug that only goes one way.
I changed the wires to make it work correctly.
So, what did I do to the motor when I put it back together to make it
run in reverse? I'm just curious.
Steve Hamer
RV-6 flying
Apple Valley, Ca
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question |
At 12:12 PM 12/4/2009, you wrote:
>
>The Engine and Main buss are basically duplicates with the following:
>
>1. EFI 4a
>2. ECU 1a
>3. Pri Fuel Pump 7.5a
>4. Sec Fuel Pump 7.5a (only one running except take off and landing)
>5. Electric Constant Speed Prop 4.5a (9a peak)
Hmmm . . . Sounds like you're splitting engine electrical
source duties between on battery bus and the main bus. I
presume you're combining the dual path sources with
a diode-pair.
The battery bus really needs to be close to the battery
if you subscribe to the notion of minimizing the length
and fusing of always hot-wires. If you want to extend
a bus feeder to some more forward location, conventional
wisdom calls for a "mini-contactor" or power relay like
that suggested in Z-32 for a "heavy-duty e-bus".
I think I'd leave the relay out and run the long wires
to small fuses.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: It's a mystery to me |
At 07:05 PM 12/5/2009, you wrote:
>The flap motor on my RV-6 was occasionally not wanting to run so I
>took it apart and cleaned up the excess grease per Van's
>instructions. All went well but when I put it back in the plane it
>was running backwards...down was up and up was down with the flap
>switch. I didn't switch the wiring because I had a two wire plug
>that only goes one way. I changed the wires to make it work correctly.
>So, what did I do to the motor when I put it back together to make
>it run in reverse? I'm just curious.
Did you put witness marks on the end-bell that
holds the brushes? I believe this is a permanent
magnet motor. Simply installing the brush holders
180 degrees out of position has the same effect
as flipping the two wires. Similarly, the field
ring that mounts the magnets may have been clocked
180 degrees out.
How was grease getting into the motor? Normally,
there are no lubricants in a motor that put the
brushes/commutator at risk for contamination.
Gooey stuff on the comm is VERY hard on surface
life.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: It's a mystery to me |
Bob,
The brushes are housed in a unit that only goes on one way. I must have
got the magnets in 180 out. There was a batch of these units that
apparently had too much grease in the gear box and it somehow migrates
past the o-ring that seals between the gear box and the motor. The
current flap motors don't seem to have the problem.
Thanks for clearing up my mystery.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's a mystery to me
At 07:05 PM 12/5/2009, you wrote:
The flap motor on my RV-6 was occasionally not wanting to run so I
took it apart and cleaned up the excess grease per Van's instructions.
All went well but when I put it back in the plane it was running
backwards...down was up and up was down with the flap switch. I didn't
switch the wiring because I had a two wire plug that only goes one way.
I changed the wires to make it work correctly.
So, what did I do to the motor when I put it back together to make
it run in reverse? I'm just curious.
Did you put witness marks on the end-bell that
holds the brushes? I believe this is a permanent
magnet motor. Simply installing the brush holders
180 degrees out of position has the same effect
as flipping the two wires. Similarly, the field
ring that mounts the magnets may have been clocked
180 degrees out.
How was grease getting into the motor? Normally,
there are no lubricants in a motor that put the
brushes/commutator at risk for contamination.
Gooey stuff on the comm is VERY hard on surface
life.
Bob . . .
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