---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/24/09: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:47 AM - Re: Ammetr Help (Keith Burris) 2. 07:19 AM - Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches (user9253) 3. 10:05 AM - Electrical: Fire Hazard in Resetting Circuit Breakers (C/Bs) - General Aviation (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 4. 10:09 AM - Re: duracell battery leak (gmcjetpilot) 5. 11:00 AM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak (Bill Boyd) 6. 01:35 PM - A Christmas Current Regulator for All..... (Eric M. Jones) 7. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak (Matt Prather) 8. 02:20 PM - Re: duracell battery leak (rgent1224@aol.com) 9. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak (ray) 10. 04:09 PM - Re: duracell battery leak (gmcjetpilot) 11. 04:59 PM - Re: Battery leakage (Speedy11@aol.com) 12. 05:46 PM - Re: Battery leakage (Ron Quillin) 13. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak and "engineers" () 14. 06:05 PM - Merry CRISTmas (Dennis Golden) 15. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak and "engineers" (ray) 16. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Battery leakage (Steve Gregory) 17. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Battery leakage (Richard Girard) 18. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak (Perry, Phil) 19. 08:04 PM - Re: duracell battery leak (jerb) 20. 08:13 PM - Re: duracell battery leak (jerb) 21. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: Duracell Leaking Batteries (jerb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:06 AM PST US From: "Keith Burris" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ammetr Help Bob and all Thanks for the responses and thanks to you Bob, for an enlightening discussion. On another subject: Leaking Duracell I had to toss a mag-lite also and decided to never knowingly use a Duracell battery again However, I have seen, in the past, that Duracell claimed they would fix or replace any item sent to them that was made inoperable or ruined by a leaking Duracell battery. Never tried it as I wont use them anymore. Dont know if thats still their policy. -- Keith ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:16 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches From: "user9253" Honeywell AML switches are available in DPDT, either 2 position , or 3 position with center off. The AML24EBA3AC04 can replace the S700-2-7 as used in Z-14 These switches will not replace the S700-2-10. You could use two SPST switches instead, one for Master and one for Alternator. If it is desirable to have the Master switch enable the Alternator switch, then a relay will have to be used behind the panel. But then you add another failure point and cost and weight. Although these switches may be more pleasing to the eye, they might not have the optimum functionality, contact rating and price compared to other switches. Joe http://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Rocker-Switches-Paddle-Switches/_/N-5g2qZscv7?P=1z0sh5hZ1yzvtnwZ1z0x3c8Z1z0z2xk&Keyword=honeywell&FS=True -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278790#278790 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:01 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical: Fire Hazard in Resetting Circuit Breakers (C/Bs) - General Aviation Here is an FAA publication that I received a couple of days ago. Thought there might be some interest in reading. Subject: Electrical: Fire Hazard in Resetting Circuit Breakers (C/Bs) - General Aviation CE-10-11 - Small Airplane/ All/ All Models CE-10-11 - Small/Large Air/ All/ All Models _____ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:44 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak From: "gmcjetpilot" Bob: I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant. Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be you will have more respect for them and understand what they do. Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline batteries. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660 Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them. Merry Christmas every one, fly safe! George MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak From: Bill Boyd Off your meds again, George? I find your "complaint" not worth the occupied bandwidth. Perhaps you could utilize "spread-spectrum" by taking it somewhere else. On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 1:08 PM, gmcjetpilot wrote: > gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com> > > Bob: > > I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with > rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers > we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in > particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal > animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story > how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on > to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an > engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are > people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that > only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false > association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling > behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult > curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America > great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant. > > > Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you > have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic > rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go > to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering > curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just > dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that > battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it > is > due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be > you will have more respect for them and understand what they do. > > Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline > batteries. > > http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660 > > > Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain > they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh > technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging > and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from > internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch > of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have > better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. > Alkaline > is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are > disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. > I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed > and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay > more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and > AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in > things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home > programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station > receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However > with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them. > > Merry Christmas every one, fly safe! > > George > MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:09 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: A Christmas Current Regulator for All..... From: "Eric M. Jones" Happy Holidays. This is a noise-free current regulator that will power up to three LEDs in series such as the Cree 350-700 lumens stars. ~2100 (maybe) lumens! I have made a few of these to replace noisey Buck_Pucks. I don't have any plans to sell as a product, but you can make your own or get together with friends and make a bunch (Okay, nerds have odd choices of how to have fun get-togethers). This uses the isolated form of the 317 Regulator. If you use the standard (non-isolated) part it is more trouble. Design notes: This is a modified surface-mount assembly used to keep everything flat against the heat sink. Make sure the 317 gets a dab of heat sink compound. Keep the resistor up in the air. It gets very hot. I recommend flowing epoxy over the pcb and 317 leads. You can use RTV, but don't use J-B Weld (I never thought I'd have to say that...) because it is slightly electrically conductive. Standard issues apply--keep the leads from chaffing. I used rubber grommets super-glued in the fingers of the heat sink. This heat sink is good for 1-3 LEDs at 14.5VDC, or 6 or so at 28VDC. I'll send the ExpressPCB file as an attachment if you email me, but this is easy to carve out of plated circuit board. Only a single-sided board is required, but you'll get a double sided-board from ExpressPCB. Forty-eight circuits for $1.25 each delivered in a few days. Cool.... Aficionados will note that different versions of voltage regulators will work for improved performance in some areas or even higher power. Yes...go for it. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278813#278813 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/currentregulators_155.pdf ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak From: "Matt Prather" You, sir, get one lump of coal.. Matt- > > > Bob: > > I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with > rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers > we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in > particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal > animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story > how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on > to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an > engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are > people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that > only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false > association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling > behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult > curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America > great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant. > > > Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you > have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic > rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go > to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering > curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just > dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that > battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it > is > due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be > you will have more respect for them and understand what they do. > > Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline > batteries. > > http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660 > > > Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain > they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh > technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging > and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from > internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch > of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have > better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. > Alkaline > is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are > disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. > I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed > and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay > more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and > AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in > things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home > programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station > receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However > with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them. > > Merry Christmas every one, fly safe! > > George > MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: duracell battery leak From: rgent1224@aol.com Deke Do you still have thatflashlight?? If so send it back to Mag-lite. They'll repace at no charge I've done it Just my $00.0002 Worth Merry Xmas & Happy New Year Dick #606/N20DG -----Original Message----- From: fox5flyer Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 5:46 am Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: duracell battery leak I had a 3 cell Mag Light with Duracells in it. Following the marketing hy pe I always thought they were the best so I bought them in large packages. Being a plumber I used it on a fairly regular basis and I noticed that I had to bump it sometimes to make it turn on. One day when it wouldn't turn on at all so I pulled the cap and found that the batteries had leake d inside and corroded the whole interior which made them impossible to rem ove. I ended up having the throw it in the bin. No, I didn't leave it on or leave it stored with dead batteries. This wasn't the first time I had an experience with leaking Duracells. Having heard about this previously I decided at that moment that the best fix for me was to discontinue all use of Duracells and let others know of my problem with them. If enough folks stop using them they'll soon fix the problem...in the form of "new and improved ultra..." Deke ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com -= * HowToCrimp www.howtocrimp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:08 PM PST US From: ray Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak Shoo, go away. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN do not archive gmcjetpilot wrote: > > Bob: > > I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with > rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers > we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in > particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal > animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story > how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on > to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an > engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are > people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that > only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false > association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling > behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult > curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America > great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant. > > > Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you > have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic > rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go > to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering > curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just > dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that > battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is > due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be > you will have more respect for them and understand what they do. > > Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline > batteries. > > http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660 > > > Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain > they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh > technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging > and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from > internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch > of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have > better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline > is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are > disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. > I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed > and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay > more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and > AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in > things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home > programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station > receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However > with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them. > > Merry Christmas every one, fly safe! > > George > MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:52 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak From: "gmcjetpilot" Thanks for your kind comments trolls and Bob's girlfriends. Merry Christmas. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278822#278822 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:12 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery leakage Regardless, many of us ARE having leakage problems. I discovered my high dollar LED flishlight (used frequently and batteries changed often) "welded" closed due to battery leakage just one week ago. I couldn't get the batteries out and threw away the flashlight. I had changed from ever using Duracells again and the faulty batteries this time were Everready. Someone mentioned last week on this forum that the problem might not be with a particular brand, but with alkalines in general. I'm beginning to think there may be some validity to that argument. Or perhaps the problem is caused by the "cheaper" manufacturing process. Perhaps the Chinese cannot make leak resistant batteries as well as Americans or Mexicans. Or perhaps the fault lies in the design of the battery. With the correct design, I suspect quality batteries could be built anywhere. Thoughts? Stan Sutterfield If you dig around in my alkaline cell stock that ranges from AAAA to D cells, you'll find a host of different brands. I've not suffered a severe battery leakage event in so long I don't recall the last time. At the same time, we go through batteries pretty quickly. No cell sits around in a seldom used device. The fact that some of us here on the list have suffered a leakage event with a particular brand is not a definitive study of the propensity of that brand for failure. If say 90% of all cells presently occupying the battery box of our favorite accessories are Duracells . . . it's axiomatic that the propensity of any failures will be in Duracells. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:49 PM PST US From: Ron Quillin Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery leakage At 16:59 12/24/2009, you wrote: >Someone mentioned last week on this forum that the problem might not >be with a particular brand, but with alkalines in general. I'm >beginning to think there may be some validity to that argument. Or >perhaps the problem is caused by the "cheaper" manufacturing >process. Perhaps the Chinese cannot make leak resistant batteries >as well as Americans or Mexicans. Just to add yet additional data, as many certainly could do, I've just had to toss a number of unused HF "Thunderbolt Magnum" AAA's dated 08-1010 due to leakage. Origin, China. I also ordered on special, from an unremembered source, a large quantity (~200) of Rayovac "Maximum PLUS" AAA's and have had to dispose of nearly 20% due to leakage prior to any even being put into service; these with a Dec 2011 expiration date. This -special- turned out to be not-so-special. Origin, USA. These failure rates prompt consideration on just how I may want to manage batteries in devices... Ron Q. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:42 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak and "engineers" First, Merry Christmas everyone. Second, George, I personnally have, in many ways, similar feelings to Bob towards Engineers. It is not the engineers fault exactly but it seems there are a lot of jobs out there that have little or nothing to do with engineering that people, usually in human resources, have decreed can only be filled by an engineer. There also seems a certian snobbishness among many engineers. Looking at your signature you are apparently a mechanical engineer, working as a pilot, giving an opinion on batteries so it would seem your qualifications to discuss batteries is no greater than anyone elses. At the shipyard where I used to work it was policy that no one could be a manager without an engineering degree. It made no sense that even in the accounting department you had to have an engineering degree to be a manager. Also "engineers" were being hired right out of college to supervise men with 20+ years on the job. As a maintenance planner every job I plan has to be reviewed by an engineer. Sometimes they come up with the most impractical ideas and almost daily show their ignorance of the systems they are supposed to be "experts" on. I have yet to see any of them open a book or do any of those advanced math or physics calculations they learned in college. Long story short my experience has led me to placing engineers almost equal to lawyers. They are invaluable when you really need one but good ones are hard to find and most of the time you can do without them. For the record, and I could be wrong,I do not think Thomas Edison, Eli Whitney, or the Wright Brothers had engineering degrees. Many of the best inventors did not have engineering degrees but much of the building of america could not have been done without engineers building roads, bridges and other infrastructure. Rodney ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:32 PM PST US From: Dennis Golden Subject: AeroElectric-List: Merry CRISTmas May God bless you and your families a merry Christmas and prosperous new year. Dennis -- Dennis Golden Golden Consulting Services, Inc. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:38 PM PST US From: ray Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak and "engineers" An Engineering degree does not an engineer make! Nor is an Engineering degree required to be an engineer. I had classmates in my engineering classes that DID NOT KNOW how change a flat on their car. They called a service station to come and do it. An Engineering degree implies a certain skill set, and says nothing about the ability to apply that skill set to the real world. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. do not archive r.r.hall@cox.net wrote: > > > First, Merry Christmas everyone. > > Second, George, > > I personally have, in many ways, similar feelings to Bob towards > Engineers. It is not the engineers fault exactly but it seems there are > a lot of jobs out there that have little or nothing to do with > engineering that people, usually in human resources, have decreed can > only be filled by an engineer. There also seems a certain snobbishness > among many engineers. Looking at your signature you are apparently a > mechanical engineer, working as a pilot, giving an opinion on batteries > so it would seem your qualifications to discuss batteries is no greater > than anyone else. > > At the shipyard where I used to work it was policy that no one could be > a manager without an engineering degree. It made no sense that even in > the accounting department you had to have an engineering degree to be a > manager. Also "engineers" were being hired right out of college to > supervise men with 20+ years on the job. As a maintenance planner every > job I plan has to be reviewed by an engineer. Sometimes they come up > with the most impractical ideas and almost daily show their ignorance of > the systems they are supposed to be "experts" on. I have yet to see any > of them open a book or do any of those advanced math or physics > calculations they learned in college. Long story short my experience has > led me to placing engineers almost equal to lawyers. They are invaluable > when you really need one but good ones are hard to find and most of the > time you can do without them. > > For the record, and I could be wrong,I do not think Thomas Edison, Eli > Whitney, or the Wright Brothers had engineering degrees. Many of the > best inventors did not have engineering degrees but much of the building > of America could not have been done without engineers building roads, > bridges and other infrastructure. > > Rodney > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:54 PM PST US From: "Steve Gregory" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery leakage I had more than just a leak. I had two Duracell's "explode" in two different smoke detectors at my house. I was sitting quietly reading, and it sounded like a .22 pistol went off. Couldn't figure out where the loud pop came from. It happened the next day as well. I finally found the source (no red power light on the detector). The bottoms of the batteries were blown out. Went online and Goggled "exploding Duracell batteries". I found a lot of articles. No more Duracell's for me. And if I'm not mistaken, Safeway Select brand alkaline batteries are made by Duracell as well. Steve Gregory 925-323-6987 (cell) steve@stevegregory.us From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery leakage Regardless, many of us ARE having leakage problems. I discovered my high dollar LED flishlight (used frequently and batteries changed often) "welded" closed due to battery leakage just one week ago. I couldn't get the batteries out and threw away the flashlight. I had changed from ever using Duracells again and the faulty batteries this time were Everready. Someone mentioned last week on this forum that the problem might not be with a particular brand, but with alkalines in general. I'm beginning to think there may be some validity to that argument. Or perhaps the problem is caused by the "cheaper" manufacturing process. Perhaps the Chinese cannot make leak resistant batteries as well as Americans or Mexicans. Or perhaps the fault lies in the design of the battery. With the correct design, I suspect quality batteries could be built anywhere. Thoughts? Stan Sutterfield If you dig around in my alkaline cell stock that ranges from AAAA to D cells, you'll find a host of different brands. I've not suffered a severe battery leakage event in so long I don't recall the last time. At the same time, we go through batteries pretty quickly. No cell sits around in a seldom used device. The fact that some of us here on the list have suffered a leakage event with a particular brand is not a definitive study of the propensity of that brand for failure. If say 90% of all cells presently occupying the battery box of our favorite accessories are Duracells . . . it's axiomatic that the propensity of any failures will be in Duracells. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery leakage From: Richard Girard I almost hate to write this testimonial but it's true, nonetheless. Several years ago, Bob did a test of various batteries and the best value in that test were the ones from Dollar General. I started using them and have ever since. I've never had one leak, I've had a very few of less than stellar capacity, but in general they have been of outstanding quality and at the best price around, 25 cents apiece for AA and AAA in packs of 20. I do change out batteries fairly often in these two sizes, but I've had the same experience with their C and D's that have been in flashlights for up to two years with no leakage. Wish I could say the same for the Duracells I have to run in my ELT's. I have a very corroded, near new unit on the shelf that had one year old batteries that with the exception of the occasional test were unused. I have no explanation for my experience with Dollar General batteries other than I don't leave dead batteries in devices. Rick Girard On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:59 PM, wrote: > Regardless, many of us ARE having leakage problems. I discovered my high > dollar LED flishlight (used frequently and batteries changed often) "welded" > closed due to battery leakage just one week ago. I couldn't get the > batteries out and threw away the flashlight. I had changed from ever using > Duracells again and the faulty batteries this time were Everready. > Someone mentioned last week on this forum that the problem might not be > with a particular brand, but with alkalines in general. I'm beginning to > think there may be some validity to that argument. Or perhaps the problem > is caused by the "cheaper" manufacturing process. Perhaps the Chinese > cannot make leak resistant batteries as well as Americans or Mexicans. > Or perhaps the fault lies in the design of the battery. With the correct > design, I suspect quality batteries could be built anywhere. > Thoughts? > Stan Sutterfield > > > If you dig around in my alkaline cell stock that > ranges from AAAA to D cells, you'll find a host of > different brands. I've not suffered a severe battery > leakage event in so long I don't recall the last time. > At the same time, we go through batteries pretty > quickly. No cell sits around in a seldom used > device. > > The fact that some of us here on the > list have suffered a leakage event with a particular > brand is not a definitive study of the propensity > of that brand for failure. If say 90% of all cells > presently occupying the battery box of our favorite > accessories are Duracells . . . it's axiomatic that > the propensity of any failures will be in Duracells. > > > * > > * > > ery few ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:26 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak From: "Perry, Phil" You could do like me. Just add the address to the spam filter. Phil From: Bill Boyd [mailto:sportav8r@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: duracell battery leak Off your meds again, George? I find your "complaint" not worth the occupied bandwidth. Perhaps you could utilize "spread-spectrum" by taking it somewhere else. On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 1:08 PM, gmcjetpilot wrote: Bob: I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant. Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be you will have more respect for them and understand what they do. Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline batteries. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660 Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them. Merry Christmas every one, fly safe! George MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com "_blank">www.howtocrimp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:22 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: duracell battery leak Bob, I don't think its an issue of a definitive study but rather experience gained over time. Myself I never used to have problems with Duracells leaking - even if they were dead - now they leak for no determined reason even if not fully discharged. Even new ones used well within there date code in my PDA device leaked. Something with the product has had to been changed to cause them to leak prematurely. My experience with Rayovac's is you could just about guarantee they would leak if left in a flashlight for any period of time. My experience with Energizers has been better than the prior brand but still experienced leakage problems. In the past Duracells seldom ever leaked even if left in equipment for years. Not so anymore, so what is different with them today. From my position I don't have enough knowledge about the engineering and manufacturing aspects of this type of battery product to determine the cause, I can only base it upon my recent experience in last few years to compared to that before then. I had them leak in my PDA, GPS, and a few Mag lites. jerb At 08:08 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote: > > >A few years ago I did a study of variability in various >brands of alkaline batteries. I concluded from the study >that there is no extra value to be realized for the >purchase of batteries that have high-dollar advertising >budgets. See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf > >I suspect that any brand and any size of alkaline cell >is capable of leaking under some conditions. Further, >given today's business environment for farming out >the production about any kind of product, there's >not much you can hang a hat on for stating that >brand D's demonstrable leakage problems will go away >if one moves their loyalty to brand E. > >If you dig around in my alkaline cell stock that >ranges from AAAA to D cells, you'll find a host of >different brands. I've not suffered a severe battery >leakage event in so long I don't recall the last time. >At the same time, we go through batteries pretty >quickly. No cell sits around in a seldom used >device. > >The fact that some of us here on the >list have suffered a leakage event with a particular >brand is not a definitive study of the propensity >of that brand for failure. If say 90% of all cells >presently occupying the battery box of our favorite >accessories are Duracells . . . it's axiomatic that >the propensity of any failures will be in Duracells. > >Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:54 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: duracell battery leak Raymond, Your comments are exactly what I have experienced. The question is what has changed with regards to the Duracell product and is this now a product characteristic. jerb At 06:28 PM 12/23/2009, you wrote: > >That is similar to my experiences with Duracell. For more than a >decade I used them in my car and boat flashlights and had no >problems. More recently I have had several leak. Same environment >and use profile, many more failures. Anecdotal evidence, but enough >to send me in search of a different battery. > >Raymond Julian >Kettle River, MN. >do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:26 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Duracell Leaking Batteries Bob, As for repair they may clean the compartment and contacts with something - for alkaline some form of base neutralizer like vinegar but, once the battery contacts have had the plating eaten off, they will never work as well. With my PDA, they were not fully discharged, in fact some new ones out of the same package laying on the surface on a desk even started to leak and corrode even though they were within there use date. There is something with these batteries either how there now made or what there made of, that must be causing this. jerb > In the mean time, Duracell offers to repair or > replace a damaged appliance in their sales literature > at: > >http://www.duracell.com/procell/about/care.asp > > Now it may be that they could claim no fault if > somehow their analysis says the cell was left > installed long after it was depleted. I.e., flash > lights, radios, etc inadvertently left on or > perhaps the auto off feature isn't working, etc. > > Bob . . . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.