Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
2. 07:25 AM - Re: Switches (racerjerry)
3. 08:38 AM - Re: "engineers" (Eric M. Jones)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:47 AM - Re: Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:58 AM - About switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:01 AM - Re: duracell battery leak (Speedy11@aol.com)
8. 11:01 AM - Re: Battery Equalizers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:37 AM - Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches (jonlaury)
10. 12:43 PM - Battery charging (James Robinson)
11. 01:38 PM - Re: Battery charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 02:19 PM - Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: duracell battery leak (bob noffs)
15. 04:03 PM - Re: Switches (Tim Andres)
16. 04:58 PM - Re: Switches (racerjerry)
17. 06:33 PM - Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches (jonlaury)
18. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: "engineers" (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: "engineers" (Ralph&Maria Finch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches |
Where Bob uses a 700-2-7, theres a pin connected to the volt meter and I
don't get what this circuit is about. From somebody's post, I picked up
that
this circuit had an auto switch function in the event of OV.
Can either of you clarify this?
Thanks,
John
I am not sure about your reference to a connection to a
voltmeter, but Bob's Z-14 drawing has the S700-2-7 switch labeled as
STARTER/CROSS-FEED. There is a light to the left of the switch which
will
illuminate whenever the cross-feed contactor is activated. This light
will
illuminate when the switch is pushed up, to activate the starter,
simultaneously activating the cross-feed contactor, so you use both
batteries for starting. When the switch is pushed down, it will
activate
the cross-feed only, tying the two batteries together, but not
activating
the starter.
Hope this is the info you were looking for.
Roger
Message 2
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Nice switches are for non-critical applications far away from airplanes. If you
value reliability and/or your life, pick a snap action switch with proper rating
that has been tested and qualified with a MS (Military Specification) number
attached to it.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278927#278927
Message 3
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I completely agree in spirit with Bob and Ralph (BTW Ralph...wasn't it Germans
who designed the Saturn V?).
But the history of the US (and the World) was always like this. Read Anti-Intellectualism
in American Life by Richard Hofstadter. America is a complicated place.
The European Age of Enlightenment spawned our Founding Fathers whose clear
vision created our land. While the anti-intellectuals and religious zealots
were being thrown out of Europe and arrived on, for example, the Mayflower. Early
history says that Massachusetts produced Yankee craftsmen and engineers who
LEFT to spread out over the country. NYC produced financiers and business people
who STAYED. This says a lot.
America became the destination for all the teeming anti-intellectuals of those
foreign shores. This is distrust of Intellectuals is hardly unique. The first
thing any tyrant or dictator knows is to line up the intellectuals and engineers
against the wall and shoot them.
But I am not so displeased as many. Years ago I read an opinion piece in Design
News (or such) from a guy who earned college spending money by buying old cars,
fixing them up and selling them. His roommate, on the other hand, bought and
sold cars but HIRED other people to do the wrench turning. His roommate made
all the money. So who do you think added more value to the worldBob and Ralph
and designers and engineers, or the owners of Beechcraft who wouldnt know one
end of a soldering iron from the other?
Everybody plays a part in the great carnival.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278932#278932
Message 4
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At 09:24 AM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>"Nice" switches are for non-critical applications far away from
>airplanes. If you value reliability and/or your life, pick a snap
>action switch with proper rating that has been tested and qualified
>with a MS (Military Specification) number attached to.
Perceived reliability of individual parts does not
directly contribute to reliability of whole systems.
As I explained in chapter 17, one may craft very reliable
systems from components that are not selected just
for their exemplary service life. Super-parts are not
offered as "failure free" . . . just longer service life
between failures. System reliability is a byproduct of
crafting alternatives for the failure of any system useful
for comfortable termination of flight.
This is an important concept that accounts for the
failure of any system component, poor craftsmanship,
accident, etc. In other words, the sources for in-flight
misery go far beyond the selection of specific components.
The failure tolerant flight system can suffer from an
extra-ordinary frequency of events that drive up maintenance
time and expense . . . without degrading reliability.
Here I'll suggest that system reliability is judged by
one's ability to suffer the failure of any component
and proceed to original airport of intended destination
without breaking a sweat.
I'm not suggesting that "super-parts" should not be
considered. I do suggest that placing one's faith
in their ability to ward off sweaty cockpits is misplaced.
All the super-testing in the world does nothing for
you when the landing light burns out, the terminal
breaks or the radio decides to quit (as all radios
eventually do).
Failure tolerance flows out of an analysis of failure
mode effects for equipment YOU have installed for use
in the environment YOU intend to fly and is dependent
upon YOUR understanding of system functionality.
Remember that decades of dark-n-stormy night stories
have demonstrated the inadequacy of 'certified' aviation
products operated by pilots who were lead to believe
that getting their ticket from an approved school was
the golden shield against sweaty experiences in the cockpit.
Those of us who buck rivets, turn wrenches and string
wires in the garage have already accepted the need
for extra ordinary skill and knowledge. Shopping
for the Mil-Spec part doesn't cut it.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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At 04:25 PM 12/26/2009, you wrote:
>I'm looking for a nice switch to use in a speed brake/landing gear
>control panel I want to make. I could of course just use toggle
>switches but I wanted something little nicer. I found these rotary
>lever switches
><https://www.mouser.com/catalog/640/2375.PDF>https://www.mouser.com/catalog/640/2375.PDF
>from electro switch, there very nice, smooth and just what I want
>but they don't have the rating I need (10 amps). I'm trying to avoid
>using a relay. I'm open to suggestions; I have been all over the
>internet without any luck.
>Thanks, Tim Andres
These are open frame, wafer switches fitted with
long throw handles as opposed to rotary shafts.
These switches have been around for decades and
are widely used in communications. Their open
construction makes them unattractive for harsh
industrial or aviation environments.
In the TC aircraft world, this style of switch
has been considered and rejected many times.
Consider emulating the approach taken by Beech
and others illustrated here:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS3.JPG
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS2.JPG
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS1.JPG
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 6
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At 12:36 AM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bill Bob and Joe,
>
>Thanks for your comments and schematics. Bill's Z-14 is exactly how
>I plan to put Z-14 to use.
>
>Where Bob uses a 700-2-7, theres a pin connected to the volt meter
>and I don't get what this circuit is about. From somebody's post, I
>picked up that this circuit had an auto switch function in the event of OV.
>Can either of you clarify this?
Where do you see a 2-7 connected with a voltmeter? I've
just checked the Figure Z-14 as currently published and
found an error. The starter-crossfeed switch
properly drawn as a DP3P ON-OFF-(ON) device spring
loaded out of only ONE of the extreme positions -
starting.
The other extreme is a held position that allows
a continuous operation of the crossfeed contactor.
A 2-7 is spring loaded out of both extremes . . . the
proper switch call-out is a 2-5. See figure
11-14 in the 'Connection. I'll correct Z-14 when
I get back to the office.
In the mean time, I'm not connecting with any call outs
for a 2-7 associated with a voltmeter.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: duracell battery leak |
Well said, Bob.
I started writing my response and then read yours. Yours is much better
said than mine.
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
>If enough of us are buying our batteries at Harbor Freight then it's
>safe to assume that Duracell will start making batteries that
>compete with the Chinese produced stuff rather than making the best
>batteries they know how to make.
That poses a bit of a chicken/egg conundrum. Would
you suppose that houses like Duracell sought out
less expensive processes in order to compete with
the Harbor Freight guys? Were that so, would it
not follow that their ability to 'compete' would
be annunciated by a reduction in prices?
I've observed no changes in Duracell's market
presence that would suggest they are feeling
any pressure from H.F. or anyone else.
It seems more likely that they have farmed out
manufacturing duties to lower-cost houses in
a move generally calculated to improve bottom line
with the present market philosophy. It's quite common
that manufacturers of many goods from washing
machines to toasters and even flashlight cells
will brand their output to the wishes of any
customer.
In the 'Connection I wrote about an alternator reman
operation in Mexico that produced the identical
part for sale under many brands and offered at
several tiers of "quality" level. I'd rather
imagine that alkaline cells are no different.
The risk for sad outcomes is easy to imagine . . .
especially when the collective pipelines are
so very demanding of product flow.
Suppose you have a marketing pipeline that MUST
be filled 24/7/365 with boat-loads of alkaline
cells. Suppose further that some manufacturing
house you've partnered with has stubbed their toe.
What period of time might elapse from the point that
pressures of quality issues become so great that you seek
alternative sources? And once demands for such
a pipeline are being met, it seems that locating
and switching to another source capable of meeting
your product flow demands is not a simple task.
Watch episodes of "Unwrapped". Put aside any
attention to the product being showcased and
consider the investment of time, talent and
resources to craft a product, build a facility
to manufacture including mind-boggling machines
that churn out tons of product per day. All
those products must be distributed to outlets
already committed to purchase based on your
marketing efforts. Then imagine the chaos
that would ensue should a large manufacture
of product for dozens of items and perhaps
as many different brands stubs it's toe on
a quality issue.
If we were talking about Harbor Freight
cells, no doubt the consensus would be, "Well,
you get what you pay for." One automatically
downgrades expectations of the low-cost
brands. But suppose the same house is making
both H.F. and Duracells . . . among many
others. The fact that you paid for a whippy
looking label, $millions$ in television and
print advertising, and faith in a "quality
brand" becomes more significant . . . even
though the same factory made both products.
That's why those oft maligned CEO's of
honorable companies make so much money. They
are supposed to be quite talented in the
herding of cats while being good stewards of
many $millions$ in investor funds and turning in
a 6 to 10% profit year after year. Our collective
observations about Duracells does not bode
well for the folks responsible for herding
the company's cats . . . nor for the folks
who bought the cat food. It doesn't take a
very big problem to seriously erode an otherwise
consistent profit that made your stock so
attractive LAST year.
Bob . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Equalizers |
At 12:36 AM 12/17/2009, you wrote:
>Bob,
>The planned use for the battery equalizer is to allow the charge
>state of the two batteries in a 24V system to equalize after one
>battery is used (via the center tap) to run the 12V hydraulic
>pump. My thought is that the battery will easily supply the 20A
>load for 30 seconds or so to required to raise the gear, after which
>the equalizer will act to direct energy to it in order to bring its
>charge state up to equal that of the other battery. The particular
>unit I've chosen is called PowerCheq and appears to be designed for
>just such an application. It's produced by a company called Power
>Designers, here's a link to the manual for the unit:
>
><http://www.evsource.com/datasheets/powercheq/powercheq_operations_manual.pdf>http://www.evsource.com/datasheets/powercheq/powercheq_operations_manual.pdf
>
>and here's a link to a white paper on its design and testing:
>
><http://www.fleetcareequipment.com/files/phatfile/PowerCheqPaper_MotivePower.pdf>http://www.fleetcareequipment.com/files/phatfile/PowerCheqPaper_MotivePower.pdf
>
>I'm not a Double-E, so I welcome comment from you and others out
>there regarding the usefulness of such a beast.
Dan,
I've been pondering your request. I'm having
trouble wrapping my head around a design task
that increases weight, complexity and cost
of ownership to side-step an ordinary procurement
task to swap 14v equipment out in favor of 28v
equipment.
I suspect there are few if any folk who have
implemented the equalized split battery architecture
to achieve a quasi-dual voltage system. My only
experience with a tapped battery scheme involved
a pusher design that needed electric augmentation
of cooling on the ground. The builder ran a pair
of 14v fans off the top battery . . . another
pair on the bottom battery.
Unfortunately, the airplane crashed before
the wisdom of the experimental architecture could
be evaluated.
You're a the leading edge of the investigation
for what you've proposed. Were it my airplane, I
would swap the parts out and stay with an all
28v system.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches |
All,
I got Z-14 and 19 confused.
The circuit that I don't understand is in Z-19. It's the ENG BAT, OFF/ON/Auto circuit
using a 700-2-10 switch. When switched to the 3rd position, contacting
pin 4, what happens? Pin 4 goes to the 'Relay' pin of the LoVo monitor.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278944#278944
Message 10
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| Subject: | Battery charging |
I posted a question awhile back in regard to charging 2 batteries at the same time.
I didn't understand the answer so the question must not have been properly
worded. I have a 2 battery (same size)system and I want to charge both batteries
at the same time with my "battery Tender Charger" The negatives are already
both connected to ground . can I connect the positive terminals together
to the positive of the Battery Tender, thus charging both at the same time.
I don't understand why there would be a problem, But???
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
At 02:40 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
>I posted a question awhile back in regard to charging 2 batteries at
>the same time. I didn't understand the answer so the question must
>not have been properly worded. I have a 2 battery (same size)system
>and I want to charge both batteries at the same time with my
>"battery Tender Charger" The negatives are already both connected
>to ground . can I connect the positive terminals together to the
>positive of the Battery Tender, thus charging both at the same
>time. I don't understand why there would be a problem, But???
Sorry Jim . . . the article I referenced was
intended to show that batteries of any size
and condition can be charged and/or discharged
in parallel. Each battery will accept and hold
what ever energy it's chemistry condition will
allow. Each battery will deliver what ever
energy it contains even if a small fraction
of its paralleled brothers. Except for what is
now an exceedingly rare shorted cell (12v battery
becomes 10v battery) two paralleled batteries
do no exchange significant quantities of energy.
The short answer is, yes. Just parallel those
puppies and hook up the Battery Tender. I've had
as many of four lead-acid batteries being
shepherded by one maintainer with great success.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches |
At 01:35 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>All,
>
>I got Z-14 and 19 confused.
>
>The circuit that I don't understand is in Z-19. It's the ENG BAT,
>OFF/ON/Auto circuit using a 700-2-10 switch. When switched to the
>3rd position, contacting pin 4, what happens? Pin 4 goes to the
>'Relay' pin of the LoVo monitor.
Okay. THAT drawing shows the AEC9005 Aux Battery
Management/LV Warning module . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf
The 3-position Aux Battery switch in question offers an
OFF function at full down, a manual ON function at
the mid position and an AUTOMATIC management function
at the full up position. This functionality is described
in the document cited above.
The 9005 is being replaced by versions of the 9024 reviewed
at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9024/
with applications illustrated at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z09A.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 13
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>The circuit that I don't understand is in Z-19. It's the ENG BAT,
>OFF/ON/Auto circuit using a 700-2-10 switch. When switched to the
>3rd position, contacting pin 4, what happens? Pin 4 goes to the
>'Relay' pin of the LoVo monitor.
Okay. THAT drawing shows the AEC9005 Aux Battery
Management/LV Warning module . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf
The 3-position Aux Battery switch in question offers an
OFF function at full down, a manual ON function at
the mid position and an AUTOMATIC management function
at the full up position. This functionality is described
in the document cited above.
The 9005 is being replaced by versions of the 9024 reviewed
at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9024/
with applications illustrated at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z09A.pdf
P.S. Figure Z-09 for the Corvair engine only illustrates
three of the four features offered by the 9024. The fourth
function just happens to be the Aux Battery Management Module.
Nonetheless, there are 4 possible functions for this
product.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: duracell battery leak |
jim,
if that was the case then duracell is trying to increase their profits as i
dont see them competing with prices
bob noffs
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:21 AM, rvtach <rvtach@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Sometimes you get what you pay for. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But it's
> crazy what people try to save money on (airplane tickets, health insurance,
> car tires). When we buy the cheapest option available we force the higher
> quality providers of whatever product or service to compete with that option
> and so all the options available in the marketplace start to look a lot like
> the cheap stuff. If enough of us are buying our batteries at Harbor Freight
> then it's safe to assume that Duracell will start making batteries that
> compete with the Chinese produced stuff rather than making the best
> batteries they know how to make.
>
> --------
> Jim McChesney
> Tucson, AZ
> RV-7A Finishing Kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278894#278894
>
>
Message 15
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Thanks Bob; I guess I knew but forgot the points you made, should have known
better. I see what I want around but it's made for heavy iron and cost like
it also.
Tim
________________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches
At 04:25 PM 12/26/2009, you wrote:
Im looking for a nice switch to use in a speed brake/landing gear control
panel I want to make. I could of course just use toggle switches but I
wanted something little nicer. I found these rotary lever switches
https://www.mouser.com/catalog/640/2375.PDF from electro switch, there very
nice, smooth and just what I want
but they dont have the rating I need (10 amps). Im trying to avoid using a
relay. Im open to suggestions; I have been all over the internet without
any luck.
Thanks, Tim Andres
These are open frame, wafer switches fitted with
long throw handles as opposed to rotary shafts.
These switches have been around for decades and
are widely used in communications. Their open
construction makes them unattractive for harsh
industrial or aviation environments.
In the TC aircraft world, this style of switch
has been considered and rejected many times.
Consider emulating the approach taken by Beech
and others illustrated here:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS3.JPG
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS2.JPG
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS1.JPG
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
Message 16
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OK! Shot down by the master I respect Bobs arguments; however, I do not consider
a $20 Mil-Spec switch to be a super-part. Certainly we can use commercial
grade switches in our homebuilt aircraft, but it is still prudent to insure that
the switches have undergone some reliability testing and have current and
voltage ratings appropriate for their intended use. Certification by a nationally
recognized testing agency such as Underwriters Laboratories may add to the
switches cost a bit, but the rating confirms that required overload and endurance
testing have been successfully completed.
The lever actuated open frame rotary type switch that Tim proposed to use was almost
a guaranteed failure point. Besides susceptibility to contamination of
the open switch contacts by dirt and dust, arc characteristics of direct current
require a switch that rapidly breaks the circuit in order to prevent excessive
arcing damage to the switch contacts; most especially when 10 ampere loads
are contemplated. A snap-action type switch has much greater survivability chances
under heavy DC loads.
I see that Bob has suggested a possible alternative, a bolt on extension to the
switch bat handle. Keep in mind that Bobs addition ENHANCES safety. This extension
allows the pilot to quickly and positively locate the flap switch by
feel without the necessity of removing eyes from the windshield; kinda important
when you are close to the ground. If you are tempted to add such extensions
willy-nilly just because they look pretty, keep in mind that these extensions
can possibly do a lot of damage during a survivable crash when body parts are
violently thrown about to the limits of the restraint system (and then some).
Everything has its price, including cutesy.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278962#278962
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| Subject: | Re: Was Ammeter Help- Now about switches |
Thank you Bob. I got it now.
Sorry for the confusion.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278970#278970
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At 10:35 AM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
I completely agree in spirit with Bob and Ralph . . .
<snip>
But I am not so displeased as many. Years ago I read an opinion piece
in Design News (or such) from a guy who earned college spending money
by buying old cars, fixing them up and selling them. His roommate, on
the other hand, bought and sold cars but HIRED other people to do the
wrench turning. His roommate made all the money. So who do you think
added more value to the world? Bob and Ralph and designers and
engineers, or the owners of Beechcraft who wouldn't know one end of a
soldering iron from the other?
I think we're talking about different things.
A robust free-market in a civilized society
NEEDS organizers . . . these individuals can
perceive cause/effect/opportunity over a broad
range of disciplines. They may not be expertly
talented in many of them but they have an
understanding as to where they all fit into the
larger picture . . . and how to select the best
practitioners of those talents to fill a niche
in the grand scheme. Our teachers like Lear,
Wallace, Gates, Johnson, Edison, Ford, Kettering,
et. als. come to mind in this regard.
These folks were/are absolutely dependent upon those
who fill a host of niches . . . they sought out the
best of their lot. The important difference between the
successful grand scheme and the unsuccessful
grand flop is how all ingredients are combined
in the crafting of recipes for success. Many of
the "grunts" that worked with and for them could
not begin to do what the boss does . . . but the
boss couldn't do what THEY did either . . .
Judgement as to who adds the most value to any
endeavor (or the world at large) based on their
personal cash-flows is irrelevant. It ignores
the fact that while a skill-set has market value
based on supply, demand and contribution . . . in
the successful grand scheme, all skills at all
levels must be artfully selected and nurtured.
I recall a story in a trade journal about out-sourcing
problems with the B-787. The author was noting how
a shortage of a few relatively inexpensive parts could
bring a $billion$ production line to a halt. Similarly,
I'd bet that each of Kelly Johnson's staff from janitor
to program managers at the Skunk Works were all selected
for excellence at their respective skills along with
their willingness and ability to move the project
forward. Loss of any one of THEM would have presented
the organizers with an important problem to resolve.
My disparaging remarks about the state of engineering
departments are necessarily limited to what I've
observed as a both an employee and a provider of
goods and services various factions of the aviation community.
I've witnessed pitiful waste of potential talent in
activities all striving for successful status in the
constellation of grand schemes, but a few stellar
exceptions come to mind. One in particular:
http://tinyurl.com/ya63jgj
The first time I saw this airplane I was consulting for
a potential supplier of flap extension systems. The
prototype was well along and had an engine hung on
it. The entire operation probably didn't total 20 people.
All wore lots of hats.
In a little metal building on a small, remote airport,
a few folks were practicing their art with great
skill. BSME, PhDEE? MBA? MSAE? Did they learn their
skill in the shadows of master craftsmen? Haven't a
clue . . .
While sitting around their conference table, reading
their specifications, looking at the craftsmanship
on the shop floor . . . it didn't occur to me to
even wonder if they were in possession of proper
'credentials'. Their qualifications for the task
were self-evident.
When we delivered a flap system that functioned
as advertised some months later, I hope our
qualifications for the task were equally self-
evident. Bottom line is that the value of work-product
over time is the ultimate gage by which competency
can be judged. A dozen diplomas are of little
value if the holder cannot demonstrate competency
in meeting customer requirements. Further, a
high degree of competency as either manager,
organizer, designer, builder or janitor may
have little connection with what that individual
learned in school.
I hope it's clear that I have no animosity for
engineers degreed or otherwise. I am saddened and
often angered by what I perceive as incompetent,
technically ignorant, policy and procedure driven
management that squanders potentially valuable human
resources while wondering in amazement why their
stature in the marketplace is slipping.
I believe the ghosts of our teachers who walk the
isles and stalk the conference rooms are more
saddened than I . . .
Bob . . .
Message 19
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Now let's update this anecdote for 21st century America.
The roommate buys old cars and hires the cheapest labor he can find,
undocumented immigrants, to fix the cars. He pays them below minimum wage
and collects taxes which he never reports, threatening the workers to turn
them into ICE if they complain. He applies for and receives government
bailout money while also taking in venture capital to take his company
public. Administrative tasks are outsourced to India, and his parts come
from Chinese knockoff firms. Once he goes public with an IPO he cashes out,
along with the VCs, and leaves the company $3 Billion richer. A year the
company goes bankrupt because of vague rumors of federal investigations.
OK, this is not the correct venue to discuss this sort of thing. I'm the
biggest complainer of abuse of this email list and now I'm guilty. Please
don't reply to the list about this thread...if you want to continue we'll
find another venue.
RF
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> But I am not so displeased as many. Years ago I read an opinion piece in
> Design News (or such) from a guy who earned college spending money by buying
> old cars, fixing them up and selling them. His roommate, on the other hand,
> bought and sold cars but HIRED other people to do the wrench turning. His
> roommate made all the money.
>
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