AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 01/18/10


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:44 AM - no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification (glen matejcek)
     2. 05:05 AM - diode vs guarded switch (Larry Rosen)
     3. 06:38 AM - Re: no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
     4. 07:00 AM - Re: Altitude encoder (Greenbacks, UnLtd.)
     5. 07:00 AM - Re: Altitude encoder (Greenbacks, UnLtd.)
     6. 07:59 AM - Re: diode vs guarded switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 10:08 AM - Re: Encoder Certification (speedy11@aol.com)
     8. 10:16 AM - Re: Through-panel ATO fuses (Loman)
     9. 10:25 AM - Encoder Certification ()
    10. 12:35 PM - Mayor Daley slams Harrison Ford (Sam Hoskins)
    11. 07:10 PM - Re: Encoder Certification (Jon Finley)
    12. 07:51 PM - Re: Encoder Certification (bobsv35b@aol.com)
    13. 09:17 PM - Encoder Certification ()
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:44:38 AM PST US
    From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
    Subject: no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification
    Hi All- Just a tangential data point here- I know of a fella who has an experimental with an inop xpdr, based at a controlled field under class B airspace. He comes and goes frequently, and with no more hassle than to include "negative transponder" at the end of his initial contact. ATC has never once had one word on the topic, or the slightest discrimination towards him for it. It could not be less of an issue for him. FWIW- glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:05:21 AM PST US
    From: Larry Rosen <N205EN@gmail.com>
    Subject: diode vs guarded switch
    Bob Nuckolls I am designing my dual alternator RV10 system, and would like your opinion. I am providing an alternate feed to the Ebus from a remote relay at the battery. I want this so I can power the Ebus for extended periods, to program the FMS before engine start, as well for abnormal inflight situations. I have planned an avionics bus relay to feed the avionics bus from the main. (I know your thoughts on this, but I want the ability to have all that stuff off for engine start). My design will have a guarded switch or diode to provide a back door to the main bus, thru the Ebus, and it's bus-tie breaker to the avionics bus. The guarded switch will give me the most control of this back door, as well as a backup to the avionics bus relay, but it'll cost me a voltage drop (shouldn't be an issue). The diode will allow the back flow without any pilot action, which has it's own merits. The ebus to avionics bus-tie breaker will be a lower value than the ebus feed breaker, to assure that if the alternate Ebus feed is over taxed by anything on the avionics, or main bus, it'll open and I'll still have power to the Ebus. Would you suggest that I use a diode, or guarded switch for this function? Thanks Chris Hukill * *


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:38:16 AM PST US
    From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification
    Just a tangential data point here- > I know of a fella who has an experimental with an inop xpdr, based at a > controlled field under class B airspace. He comes and goes frequently, and > with no more hassle than to include "negative transponder" at the end of > his initial contact. ATC has never once had one word on the topic, or the > slightest discrimination towards him for it. It could not be less of an > issue for him. > > FWIW- > Wouldn't it be nice if he'd get it fixed - just for kicks. do not archive (I'm guessing there's no issue for ATC to deal with - the controllers at the destination aren't even looking at radar and he slips under the bottom of the class B. The people who might object aren't even contacted. Just a guess though)


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:00:20 AM PST US
    From: "Greenbacks, UnLtd." <N4ZQ@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Altitude encoder
    I built the Rocky Mountain Instrument MicroEncoder from a kit and although I can't say for certain, the altitude encoder portion of this instrument may well be more accurate than a certified unit. Which gets me to my point...., it is my understanding that your IFR equipment must perform to minimum FAA specs, but there is no requirement that the equipment be certified. Angier Ames N4ZQ


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:00:36 AM PST US
    From: "Greenbacks, UnLtd." <N4ZQ@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Altitude encoder
    I built the Rocky Mountain Instrument MicroEncoder from a kit and although I can't say for certain, the altitude encoder portion of this instrument may well be more accurate than a certified unit. Which gets me to my point...., it is my understanding that your IFR equipment must perform to minimum FAA specs, but there is no requirement that the equipment be certified. Angier Ames N4ZQ


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:59:53 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: diode vs guarded switch
    At 06:55 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: > > >Bob Nuckolls >I am designing my dual alternator RV10 system, and would like your >opinion. I am providing an alternate feed to the Ebus from a remote >relay at the battery. I want this so I can power the Ebus for >extended periods, to program the FMS before engine start, as well >for abnormal inflight situations. I have planned an avionics bus >relay to feed the avionics bus from the main. (I know your thoughts >on this, but I want the ability to have all that stuff off for >engine start). My design will have a guarded switch or diode to >provide a back door to the main bus, thru the Ebus, and it's bus-tie >breaker to the avionics bus. The guarded switch will give me the >most control of this back door, as well as a backup to the avionics >bus relay, but it'll cost me a voltage drop (shouldn't be an issue). >The diode will allow the back flow without any pilot action, which >has it's own merits. The ebus to avionics bus-tie breaker will be a >lower value than the ebus feed breaker, to assure that if the >alternate Ebus feed is over taxed by anything on the avionics, or >main bus, it'll open and I'll still have power to the Ebus. >Would you suggest that I use a diode, or guarded switch for this function? Hmmmm . . . I'm in M.L. today and I thought I received and answered this question from Wichita yesterday or perhaps the day before. Check your inbox. Bob . . .


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:08:37 AM PST US
    From: speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Encoder Certification
    Steve, You may already know about this, but EAA Chapter 1000 has a lot of test pilot guys (Edwards AFB) and their web site has instructions on doing your own pitot-static calibration. You can see it at _http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/techidx.htm_ (http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/techidx.htm) . Stan Sutterfield A discussion is already underway. What is most important to me is to know the facts. You cannot argue with "experts" if you don't know the facts. Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a long way to being able to discuss with some authority. Being able to calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right direction. Thanks to all of you for this invaluable help! I will report back and detail my experience.


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:16:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Through-panel ATO fuses
    From: "Loman" <loman@o2.ie>
    Thanks for the input folks. That is an interesting point about the possibility of shorting. I will have to experiment but initial thoughts are that the fuseholders should be mounted on a stand-off that is far enough behind the panel so that the metal blades have cleared the back of the panel before they can contact their clasps in the fuseholder. In other words only the plastic body of the fuse can touch the panel when the fuse is in contact with any live component. I don't know but maybe this is how Vans does it. The Bussman product looks very good but I want a narrow, tall compact arrangement of fuses to suit the intended space on my panel. 19 fuses in a 1 in wide by 8 in tall is more compact than any I have seen. The fuses themselves will indeed have LEDS to clearly indicate failure and I have three of the 19 slots available for spares. However, I am of the view that reseting breakers or replacing fuses are probably equally pointless. I can't see how fuses would be any more or less distracting than a tripped breaker or any other circuit protection device. The benefit of having them visible as opposed to sitting on a fuseholder somewhere behind the panel where you can neither see or touch them is largely better information - not the option to reset/replace them. I should also say that, building in Ireland, I am not subject to the same regs as most of you. Rocky, that link doesn't work. Could you try again as I would like to see the part you are referencing. How about my second question guys? I still can't figure out what I am going to connect those feed wires back to. I thought of using the brass bar with fast-on tabs that Stein sells as a ground bus (SA-9900), but I would have to fabricate an insulated mounting arrangement for each of the three busses - no biggie I suppose but maybe someone has a better idea? -------- Loman O'Byrne RV-9 builder: Emp Done, Wings Done, Fuse underway Dublin, Ireland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282105#282105


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:25:36 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Encoder Certification
    1/18/2010 Hello Sam Hoskins, You wrote: 1) "Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on." That is correct. Here is what 14 CFR 91.215 (c) says: "(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with 91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC." 2) "My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a flight bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the shop, then install it for the test." That would be a violation of 14 CFR 91.215 which says, in part: "(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with an operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 code capability,.............." 91.215 goes on to provide some exceptions to the above requirement such as aircraft originally certified with no electrical system and getting permission from ATC to operate with no transponder. What you describe is not one of the exceptions. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ==================================== Time: 07:16:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com> Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on. My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a flight bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the shop, then install it for the test. Sam


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:35:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Mayor Daley slams Harrison Ford
    From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    A little off-topic but this one really got my blood boiling. Be sure to read the reader's comments when you finish the article. http://www.9wsyr.com/entertainment/story/Ford-slammed-by-Chicago-mayor/UZUOkGiueEKzg3qrZ703fw.cspx I flew into Meigs a few times, once with the Q-200, always a great experience. Sam


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:10:22 PM PST US
    From: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
    Subject: Encoder Certification
    Bakerocb, Everything noted so far in this thread assumes controlled airspace. If I missed where that was stated in this thread then ignore my comments. No doubt that what has been said is applicable given the right environment (controlled airspace). If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b), you will find that folks living in a place like me (middle of nowhere in New Mexico) can fly for hours and hours in most any direction and NOT come upon ANY of the airspace listed in (b)(1) through (b)(5). Additionally, 91.215 (c), does not apply as almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled. So, given MY environment, I can fly without a transponder and/or without it turned on. There are huge expanses of this country where this is true. If someone can prove the above wrong, I would be interested in hearing. Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:19 AM > To: avionics-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; > sam.hoskins@gmail.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification > > > 1/18/2010 > > Hello Sam Hoskins, You wrote: > > 1) "Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft > is > equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on." > > That is correct. Here is what 14 CFR 91.215 (c) says: > > "(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in > paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each > person > operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder > maintained > in accordance with =A791.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, > including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the > appropriate > code or as assigned by ATC." > > 2) "My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff > it > into a flight > bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the shop, > then > install it for the test." > > That would be a violation of 14 CFR 91.215 which says, in part: [Jon] ONLY a violation IF flying in controlled airspace. > "(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no > person > may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) > through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with > an > operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 > code > capability,.............." > > 91.215 goes on to provide some exceptions to the above requirement such > as > aircraft originally certified with no electrical system and getting > permission from ATC to operate with no transponder. What you describe > is not > one of the exceptions. > > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and > understand knowledge." > > =========== > > Time: 07:16:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification > From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com> > > Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is > equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on. My > simple > minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a > flight > bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". > > Fly to the shop, then install it for the test. > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 01/18/10 07:35:00


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:51:58 PM PST US
    From: bobsv35b@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Encoder Certification
    Good Evening Jon, I tried to make the same point a couple of days ago and my comment seems to have been totally ignored by all. Maybe you will have better luck! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 1/18/2010 9:12:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, jon@finleyweb.net writes: Bakerocb, Everything noted so far in this thread assumes controlled airspace. If I missed where that was stated in this thread then ignore my comments. No doubt that what has been said is applicable given the right environment (controlled airspace). If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b), you will find that folks living in a place like me (middle of nowhere in New Mexico) can fly for hours and hours in most any direction and NOT come upon ANY of the airspa ce listed in (b)(1) through (b)(5). Additionally, 91.215 (c), does not appl y as almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled. So, given MY environment, I can fly without a transponder and/or without it turned on. There are huge expanses of this country where this is tru e. If someone can prove the above wrong, I would be interested in hearing. Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:19 AM > To: avionics-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; > sam.hoskins@gmail.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification > > > 1/18/2010 > > Hello Sam Hoskins, You wrote: > > 1) "Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft > is > equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on." > > That is correct. Here is what 14 CFR 91.215 (c) says: > > "(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in > paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each > person > operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder > maintained > in accordance with =A791.413 of this part shall operate the transponder , > including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the > appropriate > code or as assigned by ATC." > > 2) "My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff > it > into a flight > bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the shop, > then > install it for the test." > > That would be a violation of 14 CFR 91.215 which says, in part: [Jon] ONLY a violation IF flying in controlled airspace. > "(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no > person > may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) > through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with > an > operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 > code > capability,.............." > > 91.215 goes on to provide some exceptions to the above requirement such > as > aircraft originally certified with no electrical system and getting > permission from ATC to operate with no transponder. What you describe > is not > one of the exceptions. > > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and > understand knowledge." > > ============ > > Time: 07:16:01 AM PST US > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification > From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com> > > Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is > equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on. My > simple > minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a > flight > bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". > > Fly to the shop, then install it for the test. > > Sam > > > ===========AeroElectric-List Email Forum - Navigator to browse Un/Subscription, Browse, Chat, FAQ, more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > =========== > -the Web Forums! http://forums.matronics.com > ===========List Contribution Web Site - support! > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com270.14.149/2630 - Release Date: > 01/18/10 07:35:00 ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:17:00 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Encoder Certification
    1/18/2010 Hello Steve Thomas, You wrote: 1) "Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a long way to being able to discuss with some authority." A) There is no regulatory requirement for a pitot system check, but you may gain some confidence in the accuracy of your airspeed indicator by performing one. B) The static pressure system check performed in order to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 91.411 quoted here: "Altimeter system and altitude reporting equipment tests and inspections. (a) No person may operate an airplane, or helicopter, in controlled airspace under IFR unless- (1) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, each static pressure system, each altimeter instrument, and each automatic pressure altitude reporting system has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendices E and F of part 43 of this chapter;" Must be performed in accordance with the portion of 14 CFR 91.411 quoted here: "(b) The tests required by paragraph (a) of this section must be conducted by- (1) The manufacturer of the airplane, or helicopter, on which the tests and inspections are to be performed; (2) A certificated repair station properly equipped to perform those functions and holding- (i) An instrument rating, Class I; (ii) A limited instrument rating appropriate to the make and model of appliance to be tested; (iii) A limited rating appropriate to the test to be performed; (iv) An airframe rating appropriate to the airplane, or helicopter, to be tested; or (3) A certificated mechanic with an airframe rating (static pressure system tests and inspections only)." So only if you hold one of the qualifications listed above, would you be able to perform the regulatory requirement of the static pressure system tests. But otherwise, as you point out, performing the test yourself could help you in your discussions. The equipment and parameters to perform the test are described in 14 CFR Appendix E to Part 43 (a). 2) "Being able to calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right direction." Good idea. 3) "I will report back and detail my experience." I would appreciate that -- thank you. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================== Time: 09:36:20 AM PST US From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Encoder Certification A discussion is already underway. What is most important to me is to know the facts. You cannot argue with "experts" if you don't know the facts. Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a long way to being able to discuss with some authority. Being able to calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right direction. Thanks to all of you for this invaluable help! I will report back and detail my experience. Steve Thomas




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --