Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:44 AM - no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification (glen matejcek)
2. 05:05 AM - diode vs guarded switch (Larry Rosen)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Altitude encoder (Greenbacks, UnLtd.)
5. 07:00 AM - Re: Altitude encoder (Greenbacks, UnLtd.)
6. 07:59 AM - Re: diode vs guarded switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:08 AM - Re: Encoder Certification (speedy11@aol.com)
8. 10:16 AM - Re: Through-panel ATO fuses (Loman)
9. 10:25 AM - Encoder Certification ()
10. 12:35 PM - Mayor Daley slams Harrison Ford (Sam Hoskins)
11. 07:10 PM - Re: Encoder Certification (Jon Finley)
12. 07:51 PM - Re: Encoder Certification (bobsv35b@aol.com)
13. 09:17 PM - Encoder Certification ()
Message 1
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Subject: | no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification |
Hi All-
Just a tangential data point here-
I know of a fella who has an experimental with an inop xpdr, based at a
controlled field under class B airspace. He comes and goes frequently, and
with no more hassle than to include "negative transponder" at the end of
his initial contact. ATC has never once had one word on the topic, or the
slightest discrimination towards him for it. It could not be less of an
issue for him.
FWIW-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
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Subject: | diode vs guarded switch |
Bob Nuckolls
I am designing my dual alternator RV10 system, and would like your
opinion. I am providing an alternate feed to the Ebus from a remote
relay at the battery. I want this so I can power the Ebus for extended
periods, to program the FMS before engine start, as well for abnormal
inflight situations. I have planned an avionics bus relay to feed the
avionics bus from the main. (I know your thoughts on this, but I want
the ability to have all that stuff off for engine start). My design will
have a guarded switch or diode to provide a back door to the main bus,
thru the Ebus, and it's bus-tie breaker to the avionics bus. The guarded
switch will give me the most control of this back door, as well as a
backup to the avionics bus relay, but it'll cost me a voltage drop
(shouldn't be an issue). The diode will allow the back flow without any
pilot action, which has it's own merits. The ebus to avionics bus-tie
breaker will be a lower value than the ebus feed breaker, to assure that
if the alternate Ebus feed is over taxed by anything on the avionics, or
main bus, it'll open and I'll still have power to the Ebus.
Would you suggest that I use a diode, or guarded switch for this function?
Thanks
Chris Hukill
*
*
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: no xpdr ops, was Encoder Certification |
Just a tangential data point here-
> I know of a fella who has an experimental with an inop xpdr, based at a
> controlled field under class B airspace. He comes and goes frequently, and
> with no more hassle than to include "negative transponder" at the end of
> his initial contact. ATC has never once had one word on the topic, or the
> slightest discrimination towards him for it. It could not be less of an
> issue for him.
>
> FWIW-
>
Wouldn't it be nice if he'd get it fixed - just for kicks.
do not archive
(I'm guessing there's no issue for ATC to deal with - the controllers at
the destination aren't even looking at radar and he slips under the
bottom of the class B. The people who might object aren't even
contacted. Just a guess though)
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
I built the Rocky Mountain Instrument MicroEncoder from a kit and
although I can't say for certain, the altitude encoder portion of this
instrument may well be more accurate than a certified unit. Which gets
me to my point...., it is my understanding that your IFR equipment
must perform to minimum FAA specs, but there is no requirement that
the equipment be certified.
Angier Ames
N4ZQ
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
I built the Rocky Mountain Instrument MicroEncoder from a kit and
although I can't say for certain, the altitude encoder portion of this
instrument may well be more accurate than a certified unit. Which gets
me to my point...., it is my understanding that your IFR equipment
must perform to minimum FAA specs, but there is no requirement that
the equipment be certified.
Angier Ames
N4ZQ
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: diode vs guarded switch |
At 06:55 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob Nuckolls
>I am designing my dual alternator RV10 system, and would like your
>opinion. I am providing an alternate feed to the Ebus from a remote
>relay at the battery. I want this so I can power the Ebus for
>extended periods, to program the FMS before engine start, as well
>for abnormal inflight situations. I have planned an avionics bus
>relay to feed the avionics bus from the main. (I know your thoughts
>on this, but I want the ability to have all that stuff off for
>engine start). My design will have a guarded switch or diode to
>provide a back door to the main bus, thru the Ebus, and it's bus-tie
>breaker to the avionics bus. The guarded switch will give me the
>most control of this back door, as well as a backup to the avionics
>bus relay, but it'll cost me a voltage drop (shouldn't be an issue).
>The diode will allow the back flow without any pilot action, which
>has it's own merits. The ebus to avionics bus-tie breaker will be a
>lower value than the ebus feed breaker, to assure that if the
>alternate Ebus feed is over taxed by anything on the avionics, or
>main bus, it'll open and I'll still have power to the Ebus.
>Would you suggest that I use a diode, or guarded switch for this function?
Hmmmm . . . I'm in M.L. today and I thought I received
and answered this question from Wichita yesterday or perhaps
the day before. Check your inbox.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Encoder Certification |
Steve,
You may already know about this, but EAA Chapter 1000 has a lot of test
pilot guys (Edwards AFB) and their web site has instructions on doing your own
pitot-static calibration. You can see it at
_http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/techidx.htm_ (http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/techidx.htm) .
Stan Sutterfield
A discussion is already underway. What is most important to me is to
know the facts. You cannot argue with "experts" if you don't know the
facts. Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a
long way to being able to discuss with some authority. Being able to
calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right
direction.
Thanks to all of you for this invaluable help! I will report back and
detail my experience.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Through-panel ATO fuses |
Thanks for the input folks.
That is an interesting point about the possibility of shorting. I will have to
experiment but initial thoughts are that the fuseholders should be mounted on
a stand-off that is far enough behind the panel so that the metal blades have
cleared the back of the panel before they can contact their clasps in the fuseholder.
In other words only the plastic body of the fuse can touch the panel
when the fuse is in contact with any live component. I don't know but maybe
this is how Vans does it.
The Bussman product looks very good but I want a narrow, tall compact arrangement
of fuses to suit the intended space on my panel. 19 fuses in a 1 in wide by
8 in tall is more compact than any I have seen.
The fuses themselves will indeed have LEDS to clearly indicate failure and I have
three of the 19 slots available for spares. However, I am of the view that
reseting breakers or replacing fuses are probably equally pointless. I can't
see how fuses would be any more or less distracting than a tripped breaker or
any other circuit protection device. The benefit of having them visible as opposed
to sitting on a fuseholder somewhere behind the panel where you can neither
see or touch them is largely better information - not the option to reset/replace
them.
I should also say that, building in Ireland, I am not subject to the same regs
as most of you.
Rocky, that link doesn't work. Could you try again as I would like to see the
part you are referencing.
How about my second question guys? I still can't figure out what I am going to
connect those feed wires back to. I thought of using the brass bar with fast-on
tabs that Stein sells as a ground bus (SA-9900), but I would have to fabricate
an insulated mounting arrangement for each of the three busses - no biggie
I suppose but maybe someone has a better idea?
--------
Loman O'Byrne
RV-9 builder: Emp Done, Wings Done, Fuse underway
Dublin, Ireland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282105#282105
Message 9
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Subject: | Encoder Certification |
1/18/2010
Hello Sam Hoskins, You wrote:
1) "Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is
equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on."
That is correct. Here is what 14 CFR 91.215 (c) says:
"(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in
paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person
operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained
in accordance with 91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder,
including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate
code or as assigned by ATC."
2) "My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it
into a flight
bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the shop, then
install it for the test."
That would be a violation of 14 CFR 91.215 which says, in part:
"(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no person
may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1)
through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with an
operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 code
capability,.............."
91.215 goes on to provide some exceptions to the above requirement such as
aircraft originally certified with no electrical system and getting
permission from ATC to operate with no transponder. What you describe is not
one of the exceptions.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
====================================
Time: 07:16:01 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is
equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on. My simple
minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a flight
bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP".
Fly to the shop, then install it for the test.
Sam
Message 10
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Subject: | Mayor Daley slams Harrison Ford |
A little off-topic but this one really got my blood boiling. Be sure to
read the reader's comments when you finish the article.
http://www.9wsyr.com/entertainment/story/Ford-slammed-by-Chicago-mayor/UZUOkGiueEKzg3qrZ703fw.cspx
I flew into Meigs a few times, once with the Q-200, always a great
experience.
Sam
Message 11
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Subject: | Encoder Certification |
Bakerocb,
Everything noted so far in this thread assumes controlled airspace. If
I
missed where that was stated in this thread then ignore my comments. No
doubt that what has been said is applicable given the right environment
(controlled airspace).
If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b), you will find that folks
living in a place like me (middle of nowhere in New Mexico) can fly for
hours and hours in most any direction and NOT come upon ANY of the
airspace
listed in (b)(1) through (b)(5). Additionally, 91.215 (c), does not
apply
as almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled.
So, given MY environment, I can fly without a transponder and/or without
it
turned on. There are huge expanses of this country where this is true.
If someone can prove the above wrong, I would be interested in hearing.
Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:19 AM
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com;
> sam.hoskins@gmail.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
>
>
> 1/18/2010
>
> Hello Sam Hoskins, You wrote:
>
> 1) "Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft
> is
> equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on."
>
> That is correct. Here is what 14 CFR 91.215 (c) says:
>
> "(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in
> paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each
> person
> operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder
> maintained
> in accordance with =A791.413 of this part shall operate the
transponder,
> including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the
> appropriate
> code or as assigned by ATC."
>
> 2) "My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff
> it
> into a flight
> bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the
shop,
> then
> install it for the test."
>
> That would be a violation of 14 CFR 91.215 which says, in part:
[Jon] ONLY a violation IF flying in controlled airspace.
> "(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no
> person
> may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1)
> through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with
> an
> operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096
> code
> capability,.............."
>
> 91.215 goes on to provide some exceptions to the above requirement
such
> as
> aircraft originally certified with no electrical system and getting
> permission from ATC to operate with no transponder. What you describe
> is not
> one of the exceptions.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather
and
> understand knowledge."
>
>
===========
>
> Time: 07:16:01 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
> From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
>
> Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is
> equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on. My
> simple
> minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a
> flight
> bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP".
>
> Fly to the shop, then install it for the test.
>
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 01/18/10 07:35:00
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Encoder Certification |
Good Evening Jon,
I tried to make the same point a couple of days ago and my comment seems
to
have been totally ignored by all. Maybe you will have better luck!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 1/18/2010 9:12:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jon@finleyweb.net writes:
Bakerocb,
Everything noted so far in this thread assumes controlled airspace. If
I
missed where that was stated in this thread then ignore my comments. No
doubt that what has been said is applicable given the right environment
(controlled airspace).
If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b), you will find that folks
living in a place like me (middle of nowhere in New Mexico) can fly for
hours and hours in most any direction and NOT come upon ANY of the airspa
ce
listed in (b)(1) through (b)(5). Additionally, 91.215 (c), does not appl
y as
almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled.
So, given MY environment, I can fly without a transponder and/or without
it turned on. There are huge expanses of this country where this is tru
e.
If someone can prove the above wrong, I would be interested in hearing.
Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:19 AM
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com;
> sam.hoskins@gmail.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
>
>
> 1/18/2010
>
> Hello Sam Hoskins, You wrote:
>
> 1) "Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft
> is
> equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on."
>
> That is correct. Here is what 14 CFR 91.215 (c) says:
>
> "(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in
> paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each
> person
> operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder
> maintained
> in accordance with =A791.413 of this part shall operate the transponder
,
> including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the
> appropriate
> code or as assigned by ATC."
>
> 2) "My simple minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff
> it
> into a flight
> bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP". Fly to the shop,
> then
> install it for the test."
>
> That would be a violation of 14 CFR 91.215 which says, in part:
[Jon] ONLY a violation IF flying in controlled airspace.
> "(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no
> person
> may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1)
> through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with
> an
> operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096
> code
> capability,.............."
>
> 91.215 goes on to provide some exceptions to the above requirement such
> as
> aircraft originally certified with no electrical system and getting
> permission from ATC to operate with no transponder. What you describe
> is not
> one of the exceptions.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> ============
>
> Time: 07:16:01 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
> From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
>
> Without looking at the regs, I seem to recall that if the aircraft is
> equipped with an operating transponder, it must be turned on. My
> simple
> minded solution would to pull the transponder and stuff it into a
> flight
> bag. You could even apply a sticker that says "INOP".
>
> Fly to the shop, then install it for the test.
>
> Sam
>
>
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Message 13
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Subject: | Encoder Certification |
1/18/2010
Hello Steve Thomas, You wrote:
1) "Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a long way
to being able to discuss with some authority."
A) There is no regulatory requirement for a pitot system check, but you may
gain some confidence in the accuracy of your airspeed indicator by
performing one.
B) The static pressure system check performed in order to meet the
requirements of 14 CFR 91.411 quoted here:
"Altimeter system and altitude reporting equipment tests and inspections.
(a) No person may operate an airplane, or helicopter, in controlled airspace
under IFR unless-
(1) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, each static pressure system,
each altimeter instrument, and each automatic pressure altitude reporting
system has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendices E
and F of part 43 of this chapter;"
Must be performed in accordance with the portion of 14 CFR 91.411 quoted
here:
"(b) The tests required by paragraph (a) of this section must be conducted
by-
(1) The manufacturer of the airplane, or helicopter, on which the tests and
inspections are to be performed;
(2) A certificated repair station properly equipped to perform those
functions and holding-
(i) An instrument rating, Class I;
(ii) A limited instrument rating appropriate to the make and model of
appliance to be tested;
(iii) A limited rating appropriate to the test to be performed;
(iv) An airframe rating appropriate to the airplane, or helicopter, to be
tested; or
(3) A certificated mechanic with an airframe rating (static pressure system
tests and inspections only)."
So only if you hold one of the qualifications listed above, would you be
able to perform the regulatory requirement of the static pressure system
tests. But otherwise, as you point out, performing the test yourself could
help you in your discussions. The equipment and parameters to perform the
test are described in 14 CFR Appendix E to Part 43 (a).
2) "Being able to calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step
in the right
direction."
Good idea.
3) "I will report back and detail my experience."
I would appreciate that -- thank you.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
==============================================
Time: 09:36:20 AM PST US
From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Encoder Certification
A discussion is already underway. What is most important to me is to
know the facts. You cannot argue with "experts" if you don't know the
facts. Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a
long way to being able to discuss with some authority. Being able to
calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right
direction.
Thanks to all of you for this invaluable help! I will report back and
detail my experience.
Steve Thomas
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