AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 01/26/10


Total Messages Posted: 28



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:04 AM - FW: Bendix/king KLN 90A TSO GPS (Reruven Brand)
     2. 05:09 AM - Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps (Eric M. Jones)
     3. 05:28 AM - Re: Battery replacement philosophies . . . (Bill Boyd)
     4. 06:16 AM - Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps (keithmckinley)
     5. 06:25 AM - Re: Z13-8 questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 06:57 AM - Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 07:20 AM - Re: Battery replacement philosophies . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps (Bill Hibbing)
     9. 08:07 AM - Message repeats (Mike)
    10. 08:20 AM - test (Mike)
    11. 08:20 AM - Re: Z13-8 questions (user9253)
    12. 08:29 AM - test (Mike)
    13. 08:48 AM - Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator (grnord)
    14. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ)
    15. 09:05 AM - Re: Message repeats (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
    16. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 09:29 AM - Re: Message repeats (Ed Anderson)
    18. 09:40 AM - Re: Message repeats (Tim Andres)
    19. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator (Matt Prather)
    20. 10:14 AM - test (Mike)
    21. 10:59 AM - Re: Message repeats (Mike)
    22. 11:11 AM - Re: Message repeats (Ed Anderson)
    23. 12:08 PM - Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    24. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator (Etienne Phillips)
    25. 06:35 PM - Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps (keithmckinley)
    26. 07:59 PM - CD ROM as a cup holder, no joking. (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
    27. 08:19 PM - Re: CD ROM as a cup holder, no joking. (Sam Hoskins)
    28. 09:37 PM - Re: CD ROM as a cup holder, no joking. (Michael Pereira)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:04:53 AM PST US
    From: Reruven Brand <reuvenbrand@hotmail.com>
    Subject: FW: Bendix/king KLN 90A TSO GPS
    From: reuvenbrand@hotmail.com Subject: Bendix/king KLN 90A TSO GPS Good Morning, Anyone out there, have an idea? For a Bendix/king KLN 90A TSO GPS , What does the message " RCVR HW Error : 200" means? Email me off list if you want to. Thanks Reuven Brand reuvenbrand@hotmail.com Savio, Israel C421TP Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, right from Hotmail. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_1:092010


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:09:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized
    Adel clamps
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Keith, Let me Google that fer ya.... Google: ADEL LOOP CLAMPS SWIVEL -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283475#283475


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:28:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Battery replacement philosophies . . .
    From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com>
    I've been rotating my 2 or 3 year old Odysseys from the plane to the ham shack, lawn tractor and house generator for awhile now, where they continue to give good service. In fact, I've yet to discard an Odyssey in the last decade, as they all still work well enough in their respective roles. Bill B. On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 11:43 AM 1/25/2010, you wrote: > > > kevann(at)gotsky.com wrote: > > I have a two alt one batt(pc680) syatem in my 914 powered Europa. I > change > > out the battery every other year. I modified our Subaru Legacy to take > the > > 680. The two year old 680 cranks the Subaru fine for two years till I get > a > > new one for the plane. > > > > Kevin > > --- > > > Thanks Kevin. > I've often thought that with the numbers of people that subscribe to the > List and who monitor this forum, there's got to be a market for 1 or 2 year > old AGM batteries like the Odysseys for those who opt for a two battery > system like Z19 or 14 and are in their first year. > > It always pained me thinking of tossing a perfectly good $100+ battery. > > You don't HAVE to TOSS it if you have a way to TEST it. > The yearly rotation thing was suggested for folks who > wanted to exploit the low cost batteries while NOT piling > on costs of ownership for having to test them. I.e., the > $time$ for testing was more than the cost of a replacement > battery. > > The options cited were to add things like an SD-8 and > plan an endurance bus that didn't take more than 8A. > Then run the battery 'til it craps. Or, invest in some > type of battery capacity checker and change out the > battery when it's contained energy drops below your > design goals for e-bus support. > > If you're invested in $high$ batteries, then yes . . . > yearly change-out policy seems arbitrary and fails > to offer the best return on investment. > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:16:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized
    Adel clamps
    From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
    Thanks for that but i had searched the internet numerous times. Found the parent company as well as two aircraft supply companies, non of which would sell to me as an individual. -------- Keith McKinley 700HS KFIT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283483#283483


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:25:56 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13-8 questions
    At 10:17 AM 1/25/2010, you wrote: >Hi Bob, > >As I prepare to begin wiring per Z13-8, I have two questions. > >1) Using the B&C LR-3 regulator, can the bus voltage sense lead be >placed on the E-bus rather than on the main bus? In the very >unlikely event of two failures on one tank of fuel, would this also >offer low voltage warning in the if something in the SD-8 system would fail? That's double failure in single tank of gas . . . exceedingly unlikely. Recommend your ov protection be on main bus and voltmeter (or instrument containing voltage display function) run from e-bus. > I seem to recall this question being raised some time ago, but > could not locate it in the archives. No, that lead is also the regulator's v-sense lead. > >2) The installation instructions for the SD-8 call for an inline >fuse on one of the output leads. I don't see this included in the >Z13-8 diagrams. Is there a reason that it is not shown? There's a fusible link in the Z-figures Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:57:02 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator
    At 11:30 PM 1/25/2010, you wrote: <etienne.phillips@gmail.com> Hi Rick Putting an OV module upstream of the regulator when using a permanent magnet alternator is very likely to trip incessantly, as the regulator keeps the voltage correct by dissipating the extra energy as heat, unlike a field-coil alternator that actively modifies the voltage generated by the alternator. Etienne's assertions are based on the earliest marketplace examples of rectifier regulator for PM alternators. The PM alternator goes wAAAyyyy back in the history of electrical systems on small engines where folks wanted to add things light lighting and self starting to scooters, bikes, and lawn care equipment. Indeed, these alternators were seldom rated for more than 5-10 amps at max RPM (in a 6v system). The simplest means for controlling their widely variable output voltage was to simply throw a shunt load on the device to prevent excess energy from making it out onto the system. Of course, this means that the rectifier/regulator had to be capable of turning 100% of the alternator's output into pure heat under all conditions. So the heat dissipating abilities of the R/R had to accommodate 50-100 watts of output. As the systems needing simple, low cost power matured the the alternators were up-sized to accommodate design goals. One can buy 3-phase, 30A PM machines today . . . but the regulators are most certainly not capable of sinking all that power. The reason is that SHUNT regulation has been pretty much abandoned for SERIES regulation wherein excess energy is kept off the system not by sinking it to ground but by disconnecting the energy source from the rest of the system. This means that alternators are now taxed only as the system demands can use the energy . . . before, the alternator always ran flat-out and was necessarily hot all the time. Exemplar schematics for modern rectifier/ regulators can be viewed here . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/3-Phase_PM_Rectifier_Regulator.gif http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/PM_Regulator/Kubota_Schematic.jpg For that reason, I wouldn't think that it's possible to have an OV event, other than with a regulator failure, and the only way to catch that would be to stick the OV relay and module downstream of the regulator, after the rectification has happened, and when you're dealing with DC. The original idea for adding OV protection to the SD-8 DID put the disconnect relay downstream of the R/R. But this didn't really comport with design goals for all other OV protection systems . . . shut off the flow of energy at the source. This is what prompted moving the relay from the downstream side of R/R to the upstream side in the AC wiring. Now on a different note, wouldn't it be a good idea to stick the OV relay upstream of the smoothing capacitor? I've seen one of those 70,000uF caps explode due to too much juice, and it's quite impressive! My thinking is that if your regulator goes off the hook and supplies the cap with 40V (or whatever the permanent magnet alternator can generate), and that thing explodes in the cockpit, the pilot is going to need a new set of underwear... You need to abuse these guys pretty badly to achieve such spectacular failures. Certainly a runaway 30A alternator would be classified as pretty abusive. Hence, putting the OV disconnect in the upstream AC wiring affords the capacitor the same degree of OV protection as the rest of the electro-whizzies on the airplane. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:20:07 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery replacement philosophies . . .
    At 07:27 AM 1/26/2010, you wrote: >I've been rotating my 2 or 3 year old Odysseys from the plane to the >ham shack, lawn tractor and house generator for awhile now, where >they continue to give good service. In fact, I've yet to discard an >Odyssey in the last decade, as they all still work well enough in >their respective roles. ABSOLUTELY! I have SVLA instrumentation batteries that have been kept on maintainers when not in service. Some are pushing 6-7 years old and they still deliver a hefty percentage of like-new energy. There's no reason that a well cared for battery in an airplane cannot offer a very long service life. But the phrase "well cared for" has a cost of ownership value. You need to have a preventative maintenance plan that calls for test equipment and $time$ along with an attitude that encourages due-diligence on the part of the owner-operator (YOU) to implement the plan. In the air-transport and other commercial applications for airplanes, there are usually folks on staff who are paid for their due diligence and are outfitted with the necessary tools. Compare this situation with the C-172 that sits unattended for long periods of time, perhaps a long way from an AC mains connection, owned and operated by a guy who probably understands less about his airplane than he does about his car or bass boat. The yearly change-out idea grew from the notion that readers here on the List know far more about their machines. It was further considered that many would be attracted to the idea of treating batteries like razor blades. Buy the least expensive and change out often. This ASSURES in-flight performance while MINIMIZING taxation of time, talent and resources to keep battery-only operations confidence levels high. Now, if one is enamored of the notion for fitting premium battery(ies) to their airplane, then indeed the idea of yearly swap-out is problematic in for achieving the lowest cost of ownership. So your choices now are very clear. (1) Shoulder the costs of NOT KNOWING just how good or bad your battery might be in terms of meeting battery-only design goals . . . and swap 'em out. OR . . . (2) Acquire tools and adopt a program that replaces the convenience of yearly swap-out with a performance assurance plan. The decision is one that only you can make. I have the tools and talent necessary to make my airplane batteries well cared for. But if it were my airplane, I'd opt for the yearly swap-out of inexpensive batteries . . . but that's because I have better things to do with my time than pray over batteries. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:40:41 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized
    Adel clamps Have you tried Aircraft Spruce yet? They say that they can get parts that aren't listed in their catalog and I know from experience that this is the case. All you need is a manufacturer name and part number. It would be worth a call to them. Bill Glasair ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps > <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> > > Thanks for that but i had searched the internet numerous times. Found the > parent company as well as two aircraft supply companies, non of which > would sell to me as an individual. > > -------- > Keith McKinley > 700HS > KFIT > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283483#283483 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 13:36:00


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:07:20 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Message repeats
    Can anyone tell me why I'm getting 3 copies of each message from the list - it's taking too long with the delete key to tidy things up. Thanks Mike


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:20:06 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: test


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:20:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z13-8 questions
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    Tom, > can the bus voltage sense lead be placed on the E-bus The E-bus is fed through a diode which drops the voltage by about 1 volt. If the regulator senses the E-bus voltage, then the regulator will try to keep the E-Bus at 14 volts. The main bus will be 1 volt higher at over 15 volts. Operating at over 15 volts will shorten the life of the battery and the devices connected to the main bus. > I don't see this included in the Z13-8 diagrams. The fusible link is located above the battery contactor. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283495#283495


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:29:19 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: test


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:48:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator
    From: "grnord" <grnordgarden@cox.net>
    Bob and Etienne, thanks for your replies. You've shed some light on a controversy that erupted on the CorvairCraft list (on mylist.net) early this month: somebody started bad-mouthing PM alternators and as evidence he cited several instances of blown smoothing capacitors on Rotax installations. The thread got bogged down in ad hominem attacks and counter-attacks and eventually was dropped without resolving the question of why the capacitors had blown, but it appears in light of what you two have pointed out that those setups must have had the capacitors upstream of their OV protection -- or no OVP at all... ...Which leaves me puzzled with respect to the Z-figures' treatment of smoothing capacitors with PM alternators: only Z-9 and Z-16 show them downstream of the OVP; Z-10/8, -13/8, -17, -20 and -21 all have the capacitor upstream of the OVP. The guy stirring things up on CorvairCraft confirmed that failures of these caps are indeed spectacular. How likely to hear such a bang are users of Z-10/8 et al? Am I right in concluding that my best bet for minimizing the probability of an unhappy ending with a three-phase PM alternator is to put a single disconnect relay in the DC line downstream of the R/R but upstream of the smoothing capacitor, leaving the R/R to fend for itself? Rick Nordgarden Council Bluffs IA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283502#283502


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:52:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized
    Adel clamps
    From: "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George@hurlburt.af.mil>
    Keith - I may have some - have to wait till I'm back at the hangar this weekend. What sizes do you need? Neal -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of keithmckinley Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized Adel clamps <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> Thanks for that but i had searched the internet numerous times. Found the parent company as well as two aircraft supply companies, non of which would sell to me as an individual. -------- Keith McKinley 700HS KFIT


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:05:44 AM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Message repeats
    Can anyone tell me why I'm getting 3 copies of each message from the list - it's taking too long with the delete key to tidy things up. Thanks Mike I only get 1 copy, unless someone hits the send key twice. Must be a problem with your setup. Roger


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:12:09 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator
    At 10:46 AM 1/26/2010, you wrote: > >Bob and Etienne, thanks for your replies. You've shed some light on >a controversy that erupted on the CorvairCraft list (on mylist.net) >early this month: somebody started bad-mouthing PM alternators and >as evidence he cited several instances of blown smoothing capacitors >on Rotax installations. The thread got bogged down in ad hominem >attacks and counter-attacks and eventually was dropped without >resolving the question of why the capacitors had blown, but it >appears in light of what you two have pointed out that those setups >must have had the capacitors upstream of their OV protection -- or >no OVP at all... Hard to tell . . . mostly because they were using hardware that has not been as well evaluated for behavior as the SD-8 and regulators supplied by B&C. >Am I right in concluding that my best bet for minimizing the >probability of an unhappy ending with a three-phase PM alternator is >to put a single disconnect relay in the DC line downstream of the >R/R but upstream of the smoothing capacitor, leaving the R/R to fend >for itself? No . . . best-we-know-how-to-do is disconnect the offending energy flow AT ITS SOURCE . . . break the AC leads. The Z-figures have not been all updated to this idea . . . but unlike the larger, 3-phase machines, and the 18A system on Rotax, the SD-8 on a vacuum pump pad doesn't represent much of a hazard to the smoothing capacitor. Alternators that run much faster (higher open circuit voltage) are another matter entirely. By the way, you can leave this capacitor off if you wish . . . it's value is problematic. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/SD-8_Noise_Data.pdf Note that some of the plots are at 50 mv/division vertical scale, others are at 200 mv/division. Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:29:09 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Message repeats
    Mike, I had a similar problem. Discovered I had two sets of e mail rules for dumping list e mails into my aeroelectric mail folder. So each time the browser rule checker got triggered, it dump a copy (two total). I deleted one of the rules and now only one copy. Don't know if that would apply to your problem, but if you use rules, you might check it. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:58 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Message repeats Can anyone tell me why I'm getting 3 copies of each message from the list - it's taking too long with the delete key to tidy things up. Thanks Mike __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:40:49 AM PST US
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Message repeats
    On 1/26/2010 9:03 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote: > > Can anyone tell me why I'm getting 3 copies of each message from the > list -- it's taking too long with the delete key to tidy things up. > > Thanks > > Mike > > > * > * I have had the same problem for over a year now, not just this list and when I switched to Thunderbird the problem came along. Tim A


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:43:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator
    From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
    My recollection is that these Z diagrams have gone through changes over time as design goals have evolved. I think I remember seeing some of the PM diagrams without capacitors even. Some systems aren't very sensitive to alternator noise.. Components never installed never fail. I'd guess that the vast majority of PM alternators run for the life of the airplane so long as the components are held to reasonable temperature and the wiring is done correctly. Similarly, the output voltage of the unregulated PM alternator isn't _that_ high - <100V. You can pick a cap that can stand the full output and not worry about it failing should the regulator pack it in. I see caps rated to (and above) 100V on the digikey site for reasonable prices. Regards, Matt- > > Bob and Etienne, thanks for your replies. You've shed some light on a > controversy that erupted on the CorvairCraft list (on mylist.net) early > this month: somebody started bad-mouthing PM alternators and as evidence > he cited several instances of blown smoothing capacitors on Rotax > installations. The thread got bogged down in ad hominem attacks and > counter-attacks and eventually was dropped without resolving the question > of why the capacitors had blown, but it appears in light of what you two > have pointed out that those setups must have had the capacitors upstream > of their OV protection -- or no OVP at all... > > ...Which leaves me puzzled with respect to the Z-figures' treatment of > smoothing capacitors with PM alternators: only Z-9 and Z-16 show them > downstream of the OVP; Z-10/8, -13/8, -17, -20 and -21 all have the > capacitor upstream of the OVP. The guy stirring things up on > CorvairCraft confirmed that failures of these caps are indeed spectacular. > How likely to hear such a bang are users of Z-10/8 et al? > > Am I right in concluding that my best bet for minimizing the probability > of an unhappy ending with a three-phase PM alternator is to put a single > disconnect relay in the DC line downstream of the R/R but upstream of the > smoothing capacitor, leaving the R/R to fend for itself? > > > Rick Nordgarden > Council Bluffs IA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283502#283502 > >


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:14:17 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: test


    Message 21


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    Time: 10:59:17 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mp.gamble@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Message repeats
    Thanks a bundle Ed. I had 2 extra rules sending the same thing to my aeroelectric folder.(How they got there I do not know!) All ok now. Ta. Mike


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:11:10 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Message repeats
    Yeah, Mike, the double messages kept doing it to me for most of a year, until I finally got so fed up I went searching for the problem. Never figured it was that simple (once you find it {:>). My browser has a mind of its own. Glad it fixed the problem Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:55 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Message repeats Thanks a bundle Ed. I had 2 extra rules sending the same thing to my aeroelectric folder.(How they got there I do not know!) All ok now. Ta. Mike __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


    Message 23


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    Time: 12:08:17 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator
    At 11:42 AM 1/26/2010, you wrote: My recollection is that these Z diagrams have gone through changes over time as design goals have evolved. I think I remember seeing some of the PM diagrams without capacitors even. Some systems aren't very sensitive to alternator noise.. Components never installed never fail. I don't recall that. Until I did the noise studies we just "assumed" that the single phase rectified output from the SD-8 was going to be exemplar ordinarily noisy and adding a capacitor was a good thing to do. Rotax and others had been doing it for some years prior. The surprise was that the SD-8 without a capacitor generated no more noise than other devices qualified under mil-std-704 design goals that allow up to 1.5 v pk-pk conducted noise in certain frequency ranges. See figure 15 in http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-Specs/Mil-Std-704_excerpts.pdf I'd guess that the vast majority of PM alternators run for the life of the airplane so long as the components are held to reasonable temperature and the wiring is done correctly. Similarly, the output voltage of the unregulated PM alternator isn't _that_ high - <100V. You can pick a cap that can stand the full output and not worry about it failing should the regulator pack it in. I see caps rated to (and above) 100V on the digikey site for reasonable prices. True. However the majority of catastrophic failures I've put my hands on were the result of hooking the capacitor up backwards. And the SD-8 turning at 4,000 rpm on a vacuum pump pad isn't a snarling monster either. Getting OV protection sensed downstream of the capacitor and cutting power upstream of the R/R seems to be the elegant solution. Bob . . .


    Message 24


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    Time: 01:26:58 PM PST US
    From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: OV Protection for Three-Phase PM Alternator
    On 26 Jan 2010, at 7:10 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > . . . best-we-know-how-to-do is disconnect the > offending energy flow AT ITS SOURCE . . . break the > AC leads. Hi Rick and Bob I realize now that I didn't get the picture in my mind across very clearly at all! Agreed that the actual break in the circuit should be as far upstream as possible, but the sensing should happen downstream of the regulator, as you have explained. Apologies for confusing the matter... As for the cap disintegrating, my fears are put at ease if the relay disconnects the source upstream of the regulator. Thanks Etienne


    Message 25


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    Time: 06:35:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Does anyone have a source for these specialized
    Adel clamps
    From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
    Good call on aircraft spruce...didn't realize they did that. Neal, I'm slowly going through some old fuel line, air line and smoke system clamps, not to mention some electrical wire runs. Right now I can't be specific on sizes and clamp layout until I get going on this. Thanks for the offer. Keith -------- Keith McKinley 700HS KFIT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283570#283570


    Message 26


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    Time: 07:59:16 PM PST US
    Subject: CD ROM as a cup holder, no joking.
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Has anyone converted a CD ROM to a retractable cup holder for use in their aeroplane? Details would be appreciated. I just spent the last week hanging instrument module on my Europa XS and need to mutilate it a bit with an access panel. There is a place where a retractable cup holder would be a nice feature so a little more mutilation would not be a problem.I am thinking a gutted and mutilated CD ROM would not be too heavy and way kool. Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 27


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    Time: 08:19:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: CD ROM as a cup holder, no joking.
    From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    There was a Coke a Cola bit of software going around about 10 years ago, advertised as a free cup holder. You clicked on the link and your CD drawer opened. Cute. It may have been associated with a virus, though. Sam Hoskins www.samhoskins.blogspot.com On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 9:57 PM, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote: > Has anyone converted a CD ROM to a retractable cup holder for use in their > aeroplane? > Details would be appreciated. > I just spent the last week hanging instrument module on my Europa XS and > need to mutilate it a bit with an access panel. There is a place where a > retractable cup holder would be a nice feature so a little more mutilation > would not be a problem. I am thinking a gutted and mutilated CD ROM would > not be too heavy and way kool. > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > * > > * > >


    Message 28


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    Time: 09:37:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: CD ROM as a cup holder, no joking.
    From: Michael Pereira <mjpereira68@gmail.com>
    Hi Ron, My 2000 Subaru Imprezza had a dash board retractable cup holder. Quite a bit lighter than any cd-rom i've come across. Keep in mind that IT support folks generally *learn* about these little stories *after* the abused computer item fails in it's non-intended role. It's not the misuse that makes these on-the-job stories funny, it's the indignation of the person demanding why the cup holder broke after just 3 weeks that makes it difficult not to laugh. Oh, the Subaru part actually does a decent job. They are probably cheap if you're willing to go to a breaker's yard and work out some stress extricating it. Ummm.. I'm not sure my sube was a 2000 model though, sorry about that. c'ya, Michael On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:57 PM, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote: > Has anyone converted a CD ROM to a retractable cup holder for use in their > aeroplane? > Details would be appreciated. > I just spent the last week hanging instrument module on my Europa XS and > need to mutilate it a bit with an access panel. There is a place where a > retractable cup holder would be a nice feature so a little more mutilation > would not be a problem.I am thinking a gutted and mutilated CD ROM would > not be too heavy and way kool. > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > >




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