AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/31/10


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:53 AM - Re: 28v to 14v (Eric M. Jones)
     2. 09:35 AM - cutting large wire (Jesse Jenks)
     3. 09:55 AM - Re: cutting large wire (Ron Quillin)
     4. 10:06 AM - Re: cutting large wire (Neal George)
     5. 10:08 AM - Re: cutting large wire (Richard Girard)
     6. 11:07 AM - Re: cutting large wire (joe motis)
     7. 11:15 AM - Re: cutting large wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 11:52 AM - Re: cutting large wire (sharmon32)
     9. 02:11 PM - Re: cutting large wire (Jesse Jenks)
    10. 02:51 PM - Using a SPST switch to control both the alternator field and master contactor. (Matthew Schumacher)
    11. 03:57 PM - revised Z13/8 schematic (Lincoln Keill)
    12. 03:57 PM - revised Z13/8 schematic (Lincoln Keill)
    13. 04:38 PM - Re: revised Z13/8 schematic (grnord)
    14. 05:56 PM - Re: cutting large wire (Jim)
    15. 05:59 PM - Re: Using a SPST switch to control both the alternator field and master contactor. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 06:32 PM - Re: revised Z13/8 schematic (Matt Prather)
    17. 07:26 PM - Re: revised Z13/8 schematic (Bob McCallum)
    18. 09:00 PM - Re: revised Z13/8 schematic (grnord)
    19. 09:48 PM - Re: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:53:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 28v to 14v
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Depending on the details, you could be in more or less trouble. I still recommend Astrodyne. The Ebay (and God I love it) supply is unlikely to have the power required nor the noise specs. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284141#284141


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:35:56 AM PST US
    From: Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
    Subject: cutting large wire
    How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4=2C (hopefully without buying anot her expensive tool)? Thanks. Jesse _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:55:40 AM PST US
    From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: cutting large wire
    At 09:18 1/31/2010, you wrote: >How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4, (hopefully without buying >another expensive tool)? >Thanks. >Jesse $8 isn't too bad... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40507


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:06:15 AM PST US
    From: "Neal George" <n8zg@mchsi.com>
    Subject: cutting large wire
    Dremel tool or die grinder with an abrasive cut-off wheel works well. Neal ============= How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4, (hopefully without buying another expensive tool)? Thanks. Jesse


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:08:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: cutting large wire
    From: Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com>
    A chisel and a ball peen hammer makes a nice clean cut. Rick Girard On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com>wrote: > > How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4, (hopefully without buying another expensive tool)? > Thanks. > Jesse > > > ------------------------------ > > * > > * > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:07:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: cutting large wire
    From: joe motis <joemotis@gmail.com>
    Harbor freight has a cheap cable cutter for around 8 bucks. That or wrap the cable tightly with electrical tape and a wood chisel and a hammer on a block of wood. Joe Motis No archivos . On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote: > > How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4, (hopefully without buying another expensive tool)? > > Thanks. > Jesse > > > ------------------------------ > > * > > * > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:15:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: cutting large wire
    At 11:18 AM 1/31/2010, you wrote: >How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4, (hopefully without buying >another expensive tool)? >Thanks. > The most effective tools for handling big wires will have the effect of shearing the two pieces apart as opposed to diagonal cutters which mash the wire between two wedges. One suggestion of a hammer/chisel technique is better than mash-em tools but not a whole lot. I have a pair of Kline cable shears that retail for over $30 and have long enough handles to do a good job on very large Tefzel conductors. However, if you're committed to welding cable and nothing larger than 2AWG, then there are a host of low cost shears that range from $5 to $15 and perhaps additional shipping. Some exemplar tools found on Ebay and Harbor Freight are illustrated here: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Wire_Cutters/ These produce a very smooth and square end on finely stranded welding cable or Tefzel wires. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:52:42 AM PST US
    From: "sharmon32" <sharmon32@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: cutting large wire
    I would use a 4 1/2" grinder with a thin bit. It would cut a nice clean cut. STeve Steven W. Harmon 2446 E. 3800 N. Filer Idaho 83328 "Lovin Life in Idaho" Where Being poor on a farm beats being rich in the city ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Quillin To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cutting large wire At 09:18 1/31/2010, you wrote: How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4, (hopefully without buying another expensive tool)? Thanks. Jesse $8 isn't too bad... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40507


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:11:59 PM PST US
    From: Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
    Subject: cutting large wire
    Thanks guys. I was picturing a large bolt cutter type tool. This is good=2C thanks again. Jesse From: nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cutting large wire At 11:18 AM 1/31/2010=2C you wrote: How do I cut the big wires like #2 and #4=2C (hopefully without buying another expensive tool)? Thanks. The most effective tools for handling big wires will have the effect of shearing the two pieces apart as opposed to diagonal cutters which mash the wire between two wedges. One suggestion of a hammer/chisel technique is better than mash-em tools but not a whole lot. I have a pair of Kline cable shears that retail for over $30 and have long enough handles to do a good job on very large Tefzel conductors. However=2C if you're committed to welding cable and nothing larger than 2AWG=2C then there are a host of low cost shears that range from $5 to $15 and perhaps additional shipping. Some exemplar tools found on Ebay and Harbor Freight are illustrated here: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Wire_Cutters/ These produce a very smooth and square end on finely stranded welding cable or Tefzel wires. Bob . . . _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:51:54 PM PST US
    From: Matthew Schumacher <schu@schu.net>
    Subject: Using a SPST switch to control both the alternator
    field and master contactor. List, I have a switch that I really like that I want to use for the main switch. It's a heavy duty switch that can handle up to 75amp, but it's only a SPST switch. The diagrams in the Aeroelectric connection show a DPST switch for the master because it turns off the alternator field coil. This leads me to ask two questions: 1. Does the field coil need to be turned off? If it's wired directly to the main power bus then the second the master switch is turned off the contactor isolates the main buss anyway causing the field coil to shut down. 2. If it's harmful to have the field coil wired to the main power buss without a way to isolate it, then can I wire my main power switch as shown in the attached drawing? Other than a little more wire, is there anything wrong with doing it this way? Thanks, schu


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:57:43 PM PST US
    From: Lincoln Keill <airlincoln@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: revised Z13/8 schematic
    Bob -- Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files. -I was able to down load the one for Z-13/8 and figure out how to modify it using TurboCAD 2D f or Mac. -I personalized it for my particular airplane (an RV-7A with one magneto and one electronic ignition) which was a very good exercise to go t hrough...it generated a lot of questions, most of which I was able to get a nswers to. -I changed the SD-8 wiring to comply with the installation ins tructions from B&C (I understand that I will not have the "self-starting" f eature discussed in the AEC) but I don't understand why the circuit protect ion (the 2A breaker) comes downstream of the AUX ALT switch -- doesn't the switch always follow the protection? -Perhaps with short wire runs it doe sn't matter. -I also changed the starter/ignition circuits to comply with Z-27, moved some of the wire termination points and signified the wires th at will have to pass through the firewall. I'm attaching a relatively small .pdf file of my revised Z-13/8 drawing (I know there's a worry about bogging down the Matronics servers) -- it's only 620 KB which is well under the 1MB limit -- and I know there's probably a lot of RV builders that will utilize Z-13/8. -This version might help the m as they begin to visualize where all the electrical components get locate d. -If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback that would be very mu ch appreciated as well. -Thanks again Bob. Lincoln KeillRV-7A-


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:57:44 PM PST US
    From: Lincoln Keill <airlincoln@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: revised Z13/8 schematic
    Bob -- Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files. -I was able to down load the one for Z-13/8 and figure out how to modify it using TurboCAD 2D f or Mac. -I personalized it for my particular airplane (an RV-7A with one magneto and one electronic ignition) which was a very good exercise to go t hrough...it generated a lot of questions, most of which I was able to get a nswers to. -I changed the SD-8 wiring to comply with the installation ins tructions from B&C (I understand that I will not have the "self-starting" f eature discussed in the AEC) but I don't understand why the circuit protect ion (the 2A breaker) comes downstream of the AUX ALT switch -- doesn't the switch always follow the protection? -Perhaps with short wire runs it doe sn't matter. -I also changed the starter/ignition circuits to comply with Z-27, moved some of the wire termination points and signified the wires th at will have to pass through the firewall. I'm attaching a relatively small .pdf file of my revised Z-13/8 drawing (I know there's a worry about bogging down the Matronics servers) -- it's only 620 KB which is well under the 1MB limit -- and I know there's probably a lot of RV builders that will utilize Z-13/8. -This version might help the m as they begin to visualize where all the electrical components get locate d. -If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback that would be very mu ch appreciated as well. -Thanks again Bob. Lincoln KeillRV-7A-


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:38:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic
    From: "grnord" <grnordgarden@cox.net>
    The aux alternator won't ever work: the OV disconnect relay has no power source and it's grounded at both ends when the switch is closed. Other than that I don't see any glitches. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284252#284252


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:56:58 PM PST US
    From: "Jim" <jjewell@telus.net>
    Subject: Re: cutting large wire
    I went with the Dremel tool suggestion. I also cut the fuel and oil lines with the Dremel after putting a few wraps of masking tape around the areas to be marked and cut. Jim in Kelowna RV6-A C-GIIG For sale (no license) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Jenks To: aeroelectric-list=40matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:03 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: cutting large wire Thanks guys. I was picturing a large bolt cutter type tool. This is good, thanks again. Jesse --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:12:06 -0600 To: aeroelectric-list=40matronics.com From: nuckolls.bob=40aeroelectric.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: cutting large wire At 11:18 AM 1/31/2010, you wrote: How do I cut the big wires like =232 and=234, (hopefully without buying another expensive tool)?Thanks. The most effective tools for handling big wires will have the effect of shearing the two pieces apart as opposed to diagonal cutters which mash the wire between two wedges. One suggestion of a hammer/chisel technique is better than mash-em tools but not a whole lot. I have a pair of Kline cable shears that retail for over =2430 and have long enough handles to do a good job on very large Tefzel conductors. However, if you're committed to welding cable and nothing larger than 2AWG, then there are a host of low cost shears that range from =245 to =2415 and perhaps additional shipping. Some exemplar tools found on Ebay and Harbor Freight are illustrated here: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Wire_Cutters/ These produce a very smooth and square end on finely stranded welding cable or Tefzel wires. Bob . . . http://www.matro; http://forums.matronics.comgt; http://www.matronic================== = --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s pirect/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14250 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14250 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:59:31 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Using a SPST switch to control both the alternator
    field and master contactor. At 04:41 PM 1/31/2010, you wrote: List, I have a switch that I really like that I want to use for the main switch. It's a heavy duty switch that can handle up to 75amp, but it's only a SPST switch. What kind of airplane/engine? Where is your battery located with respect to the proposed location for the battery master switch? The diagrams in the Aeroelectric connection show a DPST switch for the master because it turns off the alternator field coil. This leads me to ask two questions: 1. Does the field coil need to be turned off? It's customary in type certificated aircraft to have one switch that controls DC power for all sources. I.e., a MASTER switch. If it's wired directly to the main power bus then the second the master switch is turned off the contactor isolates the main buss anyway causing the field coil to shut down. No. Alternators can . . . and often do continue to run "self-excited" unless you break the field supply lead (or open the ON/OFF command lead for internally regulated alternators). 2. If it's harmful to have the field coil wired to the main power buss without a way to isolate it, then can I wire my main power switch as shown in the attached drawing? Other than a little more wire, is there anything wrong with doing it this way? I didn't see an drawing come through as an attachment. If it's your intention to replace a battery contactor with a manually operated switch (common to many aircraft back in the 40's and 50's) then you need a separate alternator control switch. In this configuration, you don't have a MASTER switch and both switches need to be opened to kill the system. The subject of your note does raise a question . . . do you plan to use a battery contactor or is the 75A rated switch intended to be the replacement for a battery contactor? Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:32:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic
    From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
    The breaker isn't there so much to protect the wire.. It works as part of the crowbar overvoltage protection. If the overvoltage module detects the correct conditions, it works by firing an SCR which shorts across the coil of the disconnect relay, which also shorts the feed to the coil. This causes the breaker to open and keeps the alternator relay open and the alternator off line until the breaker is reset. Regards, Matt- > Bob -- > Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files. I was able to > download the one for Z-13/8 and figure out how to modify it using TurboCAD > 2D for Mac. I personalized it for my particular airplane (an RV-7A with > one magneto and one electronic ignition) which was a very good exercise to > go through...it generated a lot of questions, most of which I was able to > get answers to. I changed the SD-8 wiring to comply with the installation > instructions from B&C (I understand that I will not have the > "self-starting" feature discussed in the AEC) but I don't understand why > the circuit protection (the 2A breaker) comes downstream of the AUX ALT > switch -- doesn't the switch always follow the protection? Perhaps with > short wire runs it doesn't matter. I also changed the starter/ignition > circuits to comply with Z-27, moved some of the wire termination points > and signified the wires that will have to pass through the firewall. > I'm attaching a relatively small .pdf file of my revised Z-13/8 drawing (I > know there's a worry about bogging down the Matronics servers) -- it's > only 620 KB which is well under the 1MB limit -- and I know there's > probably a lot of RV builders that will utilize Z-13/8. This version > might help them as they begin to visualize where all the electrical > components get located. If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback > that would be very much appreciated as well. Thanks again Bob. > Lincoln KeillRV-7A


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:26:45 PM PST US
    From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: revised Z13/8 schematic
    Lincoln; You express concern about bandwidth, yet posted the identical message twice. <http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYCA> Yellow Orange (I know --- it happens) <http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYCA> Yellow Orange The S704-1 controlling the Aux Alt has both ends of the coil grounded. Therefore won't work. The battery contactor is drawn with the coil shorted. Closing the master will smoke some wires. The E-bus alt feed relay is drawn with the coil shorted. Closing the E-bus alternate feed switch will blow the 15A fuse. The shorts on the above relay coils seem to be labeled as two different diode models. If the intention was that these shorts are diodes, why two different ones? Using one model of diode simplifies things slightly. Bob McC _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: revised Z13/8 schematic Bob -- Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files ----Big snip--- If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback that would be very much appreciated as well. Thanks again Bob. Lincoln Keill RV-7A


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:00:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic
    From: "grnord" <grnordgarden@cox.net>
    Bob McC, The OP's schematic has diode numbers near the "shorts" but no diode symbols there because of a file-transfer problem the OP apparently didn't notice (it took me a while to notice when it first happened to me): when copying a file from the AeroElectric site to one's own drafting system, the diode symbols may not make the trip; dunno why not, and dunno if it happens with all drafting software... The diode numbers are as printed in Z-13/8 so Mr. Nuckolls would be the one to say why they're different. I've noticed that, too, but haven't asked yet. Rick Nordgarden Council Bluffs IA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284300#284300


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:48:43 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic
    At 10:52 PM 1/31/2010, you wrote: Bob McC, The OP's schematic has diode numbers near the "shorts" but no diode symbols there because of a file-transfer problem the OP apparently didn't notice (it took me a while to notice when it first happened to me): when copying a file from the AeroElectric site to one's own drafting system, the diode symbols may not make the trip; dunno why not, and dunno if it happens with all drafting software... Porting work product to other CAD systems can be problematic. In the BIG world we use standardized file transfer prototcols like Step Files and IGES. But even these multi-killobuck systems will stub their toe from time to time. Just for grins, I've posted Z-18/8Q as a .dxf file here . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8Q.dxf See your TurboCAD will suck this in any cleaner. .DXF is a very rudimentary file transfer system that converts every entity into pen-strokes. Text and symbols are a series of lines and arcs. The diode numbers are as printed in Z-13/8 so Mr. Nuckolls would be the one to say why they're different. I've noticed that, too, but haven't asked yet. The diodes are very NON critical. The 1N4000 series are nice because they're small, the IN5400 series handy because they're mechanically robust. Either works fine . . . as would any other part number with a 50V or greater rating. Bob . . .




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