Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:14 AM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10 (Joe McKervey)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10 (Bruce Gray)
4. 06:34 AM - Re: Z-13 question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: GPU for Piper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:05 AM - Re: GPU for Piper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:11 AM - Re: Z-13 question (jonlaury)
8. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Z-13 question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 12:04 PM - Re: Z-13 question (jonlaury)
10. 12:18 PM - Quote Function "How to" ? (jonlaury)
11. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Z-13 question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 02:02 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
13. 08:45 PM - Re: Z-13 question (jonlaury)
14. 09:54 PM - Re: Re: Starter engaged light (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Roger,
Yes, exactly. the G1000 has a ton of features, but they are only useful
if one knows how to find them. The mechanical part can be read in the
manual, but the reflexive part can only be learned through arm-chair
flying, so powering the panel is the objective.
Your battery charger/minder idea is a good one, but I don't know how
much load can be shed to reduce amp draw. During normal operations,
it's pretty high at 67 amps, but that's with a bunch of accessories and
lights running. Perhaps the G1000 load will be <10 amp, but something
less than 20 amps is probably in a safe range.
I want to be able to use the same power source for powering the panel
and then, setting it (or having it smart enough) to go to 1 amp for
trickle charging the battery longer term. I certainly don't want to
damage the battery by overcharging, since the replacement cost implies
that Piper has replaced the convention lead-acid battery with a
gold-acid battery.
So, the task is to find a 110v input charger that will output 20 amp 24V
for arm-chair flying but is smart enough to go to 1 amp long term
charging rate, the max recommended for the Concorde 38AH battery, when
used for battery charging or topping off.
Are bigger versions of some of the battery minders discussed here
appropriate for the task? Apologies for asking others to do my
homework, but it's frustrating to know just enough about an issue to
have doubts.
Chuck Jensen
Chuck,
If I understand correctly, that you want to operate the electronics
without the engine running. If this is the case, why not just connect a
battery maintainer to your battery, plug it in, and it will keep your
battery at full charge while running the electronics, provided you have
a maintainer with enough capacity. I would assume you would not need
more than about 10 amps, so it would not take a very large unit to
accomplish this task.
Roger
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10 |
Chuck,
The best source of pure DC power is a battery.
Go to walmart or Harbor Freight etc. and buy a Jump Start battery pack with
a built in charger for less then 100 dollars.It will run everything on your
plane including the starter.
You can also use it to Jump Start your plane, car, boat or lawnmower.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10
> *
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 02/13/10: 14
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:55 AM - Re: Mini blade fuses (Dan Brown)
> 2. 08:27 AM - Basic Electricity....Grrrrr......... (Eric M. Jones)
> 3. 09:52 AM - Re: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr......... (Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III)
> 4. 10:22 AM - GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> 5. 10:53 AM - Z-13 question (jonlaury)
> 6. 11:30 AM - Re: GPU for Piper (Bruce Gray)
> 7. 02:11 PM - Re: Z-13 question (B Tomm)
> 8. 03:14 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> 9. 03:39 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (n801bh@netzero.com)
> 10. 04:00 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> 11. 04:52 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
> 12. 06:10 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Allen Fulmer)
> 13. 07:50 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 14. 10:03 PM - Re: Z-13 question (Bob McCallum)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:55:06 AM PST US
> From: Dan Brown <dan@familybrown.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mini blade fuses
>
>
> On 2/12/10 9:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>> inventory I sold B&C some years ago. They appear on their
>> website at:
>>
>> http://www.bandc.biz/atctypefuse.aspx
>
> These are the ATC fuses, and I was actually looking for the ATM--but
> what I'm finding at Mouser and such for 1A ATM fuses requires a large
> order and a long lead time. ATC it is, then. Thanks!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:27:55 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr.........
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> Perhaps the stars are misaligned, but I keep getting calls like this:
>
> "I bought your PowerSchottky Diode and it has voltage both ways. Don't you
> check
> this stuff before sending it out?..."
>
> "I bought your Powerlink Jr. III 35 amp relay and it won't turn (on
> or)off...the
> output still has voltage..."
>
> I could go on. I often forget that in the "basic electricity" world the
> existence
> of a voltage is presumed by many to mean something is ON. I need to
> include
> a "This means nothing at all" note in my instruction manuals.
>
> Solid state devices often use "pull-down" (or pull-up) resistors to
> prevent outputs
> from "floating". But this is done to prevent odd things from happening--
> not usually to prevent voltmeters from reading something silly.
>
> Now this is not a unique characteristic of solid state devices. Any
> typical electromechanical
> relay will have some voltage on its power output lugs whether it
> is on or off, only the impedance will be different. A voltmeter with no
> load
> is pretty useless (but hey, it could be made to give nonsensical readings
> on
> those ghost-hunter shows).
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286277#286277
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:52:13 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr.........
>
>
> At 10:26 AM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
>
> Perhaps the stars are misaligned, but I keep getting calls like this:
>
> "I bought your PowerSchottky Diode and it has voltage both ways.
> Don't you check this stuff before sending it out?..."
>
> "I bought your Powerlink Jr. III 35 amp relay and it won't turn (on
> or)off...the output still has voltage..."
>
> I could go on. I often forget that in the "basic electricity" world
> the existence of a voltage is presumed by many to mean something is
> ON. I need to include a "This means nothing at all" note in my
> instruction manuals.
>
> Solid state devices often use "pull-down" (or pull-up) resistors to
> prevent outputs from "floating". But this is done to prevent odd
> things from happening-- not usually to prevent voltmeters from
> reading something silly.
>
> Now this is not a unique characteristic of solid state devices. Any
> typical electromechanical relay will have some voltage on its power
> output lugs whether it is on or off, only the impedance will be
> different. A voltmeter with no load is pretty useless (but hey, it
> could be made to give nonsensical readings on those ghost-hunter shows).
>
> May I suggest some words in your download/handout
> literature that speaks to errors of deduction that
> arise from errors of measurement? Some simple test
> procedures can stand off many unhappy returns from
> customers that do not understand the physics of our
> art.
>
> While multi-meters still had pointers moving over
> scale plates behind glass, there was no such thing
> as a VOLT METER. The meters were in fact sensors of
> current. They could be made to display voltage by
> placing a resistor in series with the instrument. E.g.
> a 0-1 milliampere meter movement might be placed in
> series with a 20K resistor and be fitted with a scale
> plate that reads from 0 to 20 volts. With a sensitivity
> of 1000 ohms/volt, this device would have yielded
> better data for your un-educated customers. During
> this same era, we had to go out of our way to craft
> voltmeters with VERY high sensitivities (Vacuum Tube
> Voltmeters) that would not load a voltage node driven
> by a particularly high impedance.
>
> Even with all the accuracy and non-loading effects
> of modern digital voltmeters at DC, they present a whole
> NEW problem when attempting the measure voltage at nodes
> where there are radio frequency components riding on
> the DC. The old VTVM had a resistor (1 to 10 megohms)
> built into the probe right at the tip. The modern digital
> meter expects to tell you what the voltage is a end
> ends of some long wire leads.
>
> I have adapted a 'scope probe to a 3/4" banana plug
> such that I can scale any of several digital meters
> by a factor of 10 while taking advantage of the
> very low capacitance/high resistance loads presented
> by the 'scope probe.
>
> Our customer base is the amateur airplane builder.
> By definition, they're NOT professionals in the
> broad spectrum of skill sets applicable to the
> task. Hence, the events you've cited should be
> expected on some level. I'm disappointed to report
> that the ranks of those who truly understand the
> physics of our art are getting pretty thin . . .
> even amongst professionals with credentials that
> suggest otherwise.
>
> The market we have is the market we have. We can
> choose to service it with what's necessary and
> useful to move the various projects ahead or
> . . . the alternatives are obvious.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:22:42 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground power
> unit
> (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for powering a
> plane's
> panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing armchair flying to
> sort
> through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3 thousand, which seems
> pricey, by
> not surprising. Surely there is a more man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:53:36 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> From: "jonlaury" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
>
> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt. All
> mandatory
> engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
>
> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
> battery bus,
> the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect from
> the
> battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch between Batt
> Bus
> and Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a
> problematic
> battery and supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop going
> round.
>
> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot battery
> bus, but
> adds an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if it's a
> benefit
> or not.
>
> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both sides of
> position
> one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think I'm buying
> some switch redundancy with a DPST.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286296#286296
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:30:36 AM PST US
> From: "Bruce Gray" <bgray@glasair.org>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a more
> man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:11:45 PM PST US
> From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>
>
> John,
>
> I don't think it's a good idea.
>
> I don't believe that a "short" is a failure mode for a battery that you
> should be concerned with because it is too rare especially on a well
> maintained battery. Perhaps you meant a single shorted cell, while also
> rare but if it did happen, would still produce enough current at an
> acceptable voltage to run EFI, or so I believe.
>
> Adding switches or relays to add control of the battery bus obviously adds
> failure points which I think would be orders of magnitude more likely than
> a
> "shorted" battery.
>
> If your main alternator (electrical energy generator) fails, the battery
> (electrical energy reservoir) is a short term back up and should be sized
> to
> power your essential loads longer than your total onboard fuel supply.
> You
> have a second alternator, so that is your indefinite backup (in my
> opinion).
> If your battery is always maintained and replaced regularly, I don't think
> you will ever go without sufficient electrons at-the-ready.
>
> My opinions only. Others may disagree.
>
> Bevan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jonlaury
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:51 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>
> --> <jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt. All
> mandatory engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
>
> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
> battery
> bus, the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect
> from the battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch
> between
> Batt Bus and Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a
> problematic battery and supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the
> prop going round.
>
> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot battery
> bus, but adds an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if
> it's a benefit or not.
>
> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both sides of
> position one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think
> I'm
> buying some switch redundancy with a DPST.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286296#286296
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:14:28 PM PST US
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the Piper
> plug,
> which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your link was a
> good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a more
> man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:39:54 PM PST US
> From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@NetZero.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
> 11042 plug
> With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
> grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
> Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> .com>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the Piper
> plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your link
> was a good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
>>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
>
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a more
>
> man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> =======================
> ==========
> =======================
> ==========
> =======================
> ==========
> =======================
> ==========
> ____________________________________________________________
> Love Spell
> Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5
> AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
> wAAAAA
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:00:03 PM PST US
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Thanks for the refresher, Ben, I recall of having seen that part number
> before and it may well suit my purposes.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> n801bh@netzero.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:37 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
>
> 11042 plug
>
> With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
>
> grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
>
> Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the Piper
> plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your link
> was a good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> <bgray@glasair.org>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a more
> man's substitute
> available=====================
> ======================sp;
>
> -Ma=======================
> =================
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Love Spell
> <http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5
> AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARw
> AAAAA=>
> Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:52:06 PM PST US
> From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> ==> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen"
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a more
> man's substitute available
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> If I understand correctly, that you want to operate the electronics
> without
> the engine running. If this is the case, why not just connect a battery
> maintainer to your battery, plug it in, and it will keep your battery at
> full charge while running the electronics, provided you have a maintainer
> with enough capacity. I would assume you would not need more than about
> 10
> amps, so it would not take a very large unit to accomplish this task.
>
> Roger
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:10:58 PM PST US
> From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I
> bought
> the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft Spruce after
> reading Bob N's article on modifying for our OBAM aircraft.
>
>
> ACS catalog page:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf
>
>
> AeroElectric connection article:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>
>
> Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me? Socket was 10 oz. and plug
> was
> 7.2 oz. I guess I really might not have needed the plug as FBO is
> supposed
> to have this on his "battery cart?"
>
>
> Not sure if I am going to use it but it is not decision time yet.
>
>
> Allen Fulmer
>
> RV7 Finishing wiring
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> n801bh@netzero.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:37 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
>
> 11042 plug
>
> With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
>
> grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
>
> Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the Piper
> plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your link
> was
> a good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a more
> man's substitute
> available=================================================================
> ==========================================================================
> =sp; -Ma=========================================
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Love Spell
> <http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5AAAJ1
> GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA=>
> Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:50:12 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> At 08:08 PM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
>>Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I
>>bought the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft
>>Spruce after reading Bob N's article on modifying for our OBAM aircraft.
>>
>>ACS catalog page:
>><http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf
>>
>>AeroElectric connection article:
>><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>>
>>Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me? Socket was 10 oz. and
>>plug was 7.2 oz. I guess I really might not have needed the plug as
>>FBO is supposed to have this on his "battery cart?"
>
> Yup . . . that's the general rule. Actually, the
> "Piper" connector is a lighter, lower cost
> alternative to the AN2551 found on other brands
> and the heavier Piper aircraft. The C.H. 11041
> and mating connector was originally created for
> the ground based vehicles market like OTR trucks
> and electric fork-lifts. I've used this connector
> on several 100+ AMP test systems for really BIG
> motors. To my knowledge, Piper was the only folk
> who used this connector on the lighter singles. I'm
> pretty sure all Brand C and Brand B airplanes used
> the AN2551. Any FBO worth his ground power revenues
> will have both.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:03:39 PM PST US
> From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>
> John;
>
> See embedded comments. These are not intended in any way to be "smart
> assed"
> just trying to illustrate my personal opinion and understanding of the
> question.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonlaury
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:51 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>>
>>
>> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt.
>> All
> mandatory
>> engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
>>
>> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short(with a modern properly
> maintained AGM/VRLA battery this is about as likely as the engine mount
> falling off) , it takes down the battery bus, the
>> redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect from the
>> battery/batt bus. ( not quite true as the battery with a shorted cell
> (which doesn't happen) will likely still supply sufficient power to keep
> the
> engine running especially when supported by an operating alternator. If
> the
> alternator has sufficient reserve capacity it will "cook" the battery but
> all of this will take some time giving you ample opportunity to safely
> land)
> It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch between Batt Bus and
>> Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a problematic
> battery and
>> supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop going round.
> (assuming your particular alternator will function without a battery, and
> you don't switch a load which stalls it)
>>
>> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot battery
> bus, but adds
>> an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if it's a
> benefit or not. In my opinion it's not.
>>
>> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both sides
> of position
>> one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think I'm buying
> some switch
>> redundancy with a DPST. (and when one pole of the switch fails ON how
>> does
> the second pole help you turn it off??)
>>
>> What do you all think?
>
> I think it's a bad idea to play with a tried and true design which has had
> a
> lot of thought about failure modes put into it and try to second guess
> what
> "might" happen. Most of the "Z" figures represent electrical systems which
> are so superior to anything found in the average "production vehicle" (be
> it
> airborne or ground based) that your worries are unfounded. Batteries don't
> magically "fail", engines don't just fall off, prop bolts don't shear. All
> of these failures are so rare as to be ignored. That's not to say that
> batteries shouldn't be maintained and tested, engine mount integrity
> examined and prop bolts checked, but these failure possibilities don't
> warrant backups. (How would you propose to backup an engine mount for
> example? You just have to trust that it won't fail.)
>>
>> John
>>
>>
> Bob McC
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10 |
Chuck's major problem is that he has a 28v airplane, I thought
jumpstarts only come in 12v.
If you want to go the battery route, buy a couple of cheap auto
batteries and connect them in series to give you 28v, add a battery
charger and a ground service plug and you should be set for 1-2 hours of
ground playtime.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe
McKervey
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:58 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs -
02/13/10
<mckervey@charter.net>
Chuck,
The best source of pure DC power is a battery.
Go to walmart or Harbor Freight etc. and buy a Jump Start battery pack
with
a built in charger for less then 100 dollars.It will run everything on
your
plane including the starter.
You can also use it to Jump Start your plane, car, boat or lawnmower.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server"
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
<aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either
of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Cha
pter 10-02-13&Archive=AeroElectric
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chap
ter 10-02-13&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 02/13/10: 14
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:55 AM - Re: Mini blade fuses (Dan Brown)
> 2. 08:27 AM - Basic Electricity....Grrrrr......... (Eric M.
Jones)
> 3. 09:52 AM - Re: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr......... (Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III)
> 4. 10:22 AM - GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> 5. 10:53 AM - Z-13 question (jonlaury)
> 6. 11:30 AM - Re: GPU for Piper (Bruce Gray)
> 7. 02:11 PM - Re: Z-13 question (B Tomm)
> 8. 03:14 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> 9. 03:39 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (n801bh@netzero.com)
> 10. 04:00 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> 11. 04:52 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
> 12. 06:10 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Allen Fulmer)
> 13. 07:50 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 14. 10:03 PM - Re: Z-13 question (Bob McCallum)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:55:06 AM PST US
> From: Dan Brown <dan@familybrown.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mini blade fuses
>
>
> On 2/12/10 9:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>> inventory I sold B&C some years ago. They appear on their
>> website at:
>>
>> http://www.bandc.biz/atctypefuse.aspx
>
> These are the ATC fuses, and I was actually looking for the ATM--but
> what I'm finding at Mouser and such for 1A ATM fuses requires a large
> order and a long lead time. ATC it is, then. Thanks!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:27:55 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr.........
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> Perhaps the stars are misaligned, but I keep getting calls like this:
>
> "I bought your PowerSchottky Diode and it has voltage both ways. Don't
you
> check
> this stuff before sending it out?..."
>
> "I bought your Powerlink Jr. III 35 amp relay and it won't turn (on
> or)off...the
> output still has voltage..."
>
> I could go on. I often forget that in the "basic electricity" world
the
> existence
> of a voltage is presumed by many to mean something is ON. I need to
> include
> a "This means nothing at all" note in my instruction manuals.
>
> Solid state devices often use "pull-down" (or pull-up) resistors to
> prevent outputs
> from "floating". But this is done to prevent odd things from
happening--
> not usually to prevent voltmeters from reading something silly.
>
> Now this is not a unique characteristic of solid state devices. Any
> typical electromechanical
> relay will have some voltage on its power output lugs whether it
> is on or off, only the impedance will be different. A voltmeter with
no
> load
> is pretty useless (but hey, it could be made to give nonsensical
readings
> on
> those ghost-hunter shows).
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286277#286277
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:52:13 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr.........
>
>
> At 10:26 AM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
>
> Perhaps the stars are misaligned, but I keep getting calls like this:
>
> "I bought your PowerSchottky Diode and it has voltage both ways.
> Don't you check this stuff before sending it out?..."
>
> "I bought your Powerlink Jr. III 35 amp relay and it won't turn (on
> or)off...the output still has voltage..."
>
> I could go on. I often forget that in the "basic electricity" world
> the existence of a voltage is presumed by many to mean something is
> ON. I need to include a "This means nothing at all" note in my
> instruction manuals.
>
> Solid state devices often use "pull-down" (or pull-up) resistors to
> prevent outputs from "floating". But this is done to prevent odd
> things from happening-- not usually to prevent voltmeters from
> reading something silly.
>
> Now this is not a unique characteristic of solid state devices. Any
> typical electromechanical relay will have some voltage on its power
> output lugs whether it is on or off, only the impedance will be
> different. A voltmeter with no load is pretty useless (but hey, it
> could be made to give nonsensical readings on those ghost-hunter
shows).
>
> May I suggest some words in your download/handout
> literature that speaks to errors of deduction that
> arise from errors of measurement? Some simple test
> procedures can stand off many unhappy returns from
> customers that do not understand the physics of our
> art.
>
> While multi-meters still had pointers moving over
> scale plates behind glass, there was no such thing
> as a VOLT METER. The meters were in fact sensors of
> current. They could be made to display voltage by
> placing a resistor in series with the instrument. E.g.
> a 0-1 milliampere meter movement might be placed in
> series with a 20K resistor and be fitted with a scale
> plate that reads from 0 to 20 volts. With a sensitivity
> of 1000 ohms/volt, this device would have yielded
> better data for your un-educated customers. During
> this same era, we had to go out of our way to craft
> voltmeters with VERY high sensitivities (Vacuum Tube
> Voltmeters) that would not load a voltage node driven
> by a particularly high impedance.
>
> Even with all the accuracy and non-loading effects
> of modern digital voltmeters at DC, they present a whole
> NEW problem when attempting the measure voltage at nodes
> where there are radio frequency components riding on
> the DC. The old VTVM had a resistor (1 to 10 megohms)
> built into the probe right at the tip. The modern digital
> meter expects to tell you what the voltage is a end
> ends of some long wire leads.
>
> I have adapted a 'scope probe to a 3/4" banana plug
> such that I can scale any of several digital meters
> by a factor of 10 while taking advantage of the
> very low capacitance/high resistance loads presented
> by the 'scope probe.
>
> Our customer base is the amateur airplane builder.
> By definition, they're NOT professionals in the
> broad spectrum of skill sets applicable to the
> task. Hence, the events you've cited should be
> expected on some level. I'm disappointed to report
> that the ranks of those who truly understand the
> physics of our art are getting pretty thin . . .
> even amongst professionals with credentials that
> suggest otherwise.
>
> The market we have is the market we have. We can
> choose to service it with what's necessary and
> useful to move the various projects ahead or
> . . . the alternatives are obvious.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:22:42 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
power
> unit
> (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for powering
a
> plane's
> panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing armchair flying to
> sort
> through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3 thousand, which seems
> pricey, by
> not surprising. Surely there is a more man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:53:36 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> From: "jonlaury" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
>
> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt.
All
> mandatory
> engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
>
> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
> battery bus,
> the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect
from
> the
> battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch between
Batt
> Bus
> and Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a
> problematic
> battery and supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop
going
> round.
>
> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
battery
> bus, but
> adds an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if it's
a
> benefit
> or not.
>
> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
sides of
> position
> one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think I'm
buying
> some switch redundancy with a DPST.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286296#286296
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:30:36 AM PST US
> From: "Bruce Gray" <bgray@glasair.org>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
more
> man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:11:45 PM PST US
> From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>
>
> John,
>
> I don't think it's a good idea.
>
> I don't believe that a "short" is a failure mode for a battery that
you
> should be concerned with because it is too rare especially on a well
> maintained battery. Perhaps you meant a single shorted cell, while
also
> rare but if it did happen, would still produce enough current at an
> acceptable voltage to run EFI, or so I believe.
>
> Adding switches or relays to add control of the battery bus obviously
adds
> failure points which I think would be orders of magnitude more likely
than
> a
> "shorted" battery.
>
> If your main alternator (electrical energy generator) fails, the
battery
> (electrical energy reservoir) is a short term back up and should be
sized
> to
> power your essential loads longer than your total onboard fuel supply.
> You
> have a second alternator, so that is your indefinite backup (in my
> opinion).
> If your battery is always maintained and replaced regularly, I don't
think
> you will ever go without sufficient electrons at-the-ready.
>
> My opinions only. Others may disagree.
>
> Bevan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jonlaury
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:51 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>
> --> <jonlaury@impulse.net>
>
> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt.
All
> mandatory engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
>
> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
> battery
> bus, the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no
disconnect
> from the battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch
> between
> Batt Bus and Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate
a
> problematic battery and supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping
the
> prop going round.
>
> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
battery
> bus, but adds an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not
sure if
> it's a benefit or not.
>
> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
sides of
> position one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I
think
> I'm
> buying some switch redundancy with a DPST.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286296#286296
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:14:28 PM PST US
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
Piper
> plug,
> which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your link was
a
> good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
more
> man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:39:54 PM PST US
> From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@NetZero.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
> 11042 plug
> With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
> grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
> Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> .com>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
Piper
> plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your
link
> was a good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
>>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Chuck
>
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
more
>
> man's substitute available?
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> =======================
> ==========
> =======================
> ==========
> =======================
> ==========
> =======================
> ==========
> ____________________________________________________________
> Love Spell
> Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5
>
AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
> wAAAAA
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:00:03 PM PST US
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Thanks for the refresher, Ben, I recall of having seen that part
number
> before and it may well suit my purposes.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> n801bh@netzero.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:37 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
>
> 11042 plug
>
> With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
>
> grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
>
> Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
Piper
> plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your
link
> was a good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> <bgray@glasair.org>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
more
> man's substitute
> available=====================
> ======================sp;
>
> -Ma=======================
> =================
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Love Spell
>
<http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5
>
AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
w
> AAAAA=>
> Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:52:06 PM PST US
> From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> ==> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen"
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
more
> man's substitute available
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> If I understand correctly, that you want to operate the electronics
> without
> the engine running. If this is the case, why not just connect a
battery
> maintainer to your battery, plug it in, and it will keep your battery
at
> full charge while running the electronics, provided you have a
maintainer
> with enough capacity. I would assume you would not need more than
about
> 10
> amps, so it would not take a very large unit to accomplish this task.
>
> Roger
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:10:58 PM PST US
> From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I
> bought
> the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft Spruce after
> reading Bob N's article on modifying for our OBAM aircraft.
>
>
> ACS catalog page:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf
>
>
> AeroElectric connection article:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>
>
> Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me? Socket was 10 oz. and
plug
> was
> 7.2 oz. I guess I really might not have needed the plug as FBO is
> supposed
> to have this on his "battery cart?"
>
>
> Not sure if I am going to use it but it is not decision time yet.
>
>
> Allen Fulmer
>
> RV7 Finishing wiring
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> n801bh@netzero.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:37 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
>
> 11042 plug
>
> With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
>
> grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
>
> Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
Piper
> plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your
link
> was
> a good one.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Diversified Technologies
> 2680 Westcott Blvd
> Knoxville, TN 37931
> Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> Cell: 865-406-9001
> Fax: 865-539-9001
> cjensen@dts9000.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
>
> A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> is needed.
>
> My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
>
> http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Chuck
> Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
for
> powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
more
> man's substitute
>
available==============================================================
==
>
=======================================================================
==
> =sp;
-Ma=========================================
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Love Spell
>
<http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5A
AAJ1
>
GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAA
A=>
> Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:50:12 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
>
> At 08:08 PM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
>>Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I
>>bought the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft
>>Spruce after reading Bob N's article on modifying for our OBAM
aircraft.
>>
>>ACS catalog page:
>><http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf>http://
www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf
>>
>>AeroElectric connection article:
>><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf>http://www.aeroelect
ric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>>
>>Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me? Socket was 10 oz. and
>>plug was 7.2 oz. I guess I really might not have needed the plug as
>>FBO is supposed to have this on his "battery cart?"
>
> Yup . . . that's the general rule. Actually, the
> "Piper" connector is a lighter, lower cost
> alternative to the AN2551 found on other brands
> and the heavier Piper aircraft. The C.H. 11041
> and mating connector was originally created for
> the ground based vehicles market like OTR trucks
> and electric fork-lifts. I've used this connector
> on several 100+ AMP test systems for really BIG
> motors. To my knowledge, Piper was the only folk
> who used this connector on the lighter singles. I'm
> pretty sure all Brand C and Brand B airplanes used
> the AN2551. Any FBO worth his ground power revenues
> will have both.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:03:39 PM PST US
> From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>
> John;
>
> See embedded comments. These are not intended in any way to be "smart
> assed"
> just trying to illustrate my personal opinion and understanding of
the
> question.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonlaury
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:51 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
>>
>>
>> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby
alt.
>> All
> mandatory
>> engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
>>
>> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short(with a modern
properly
> maintained AGM/VRLA battery this is about as likely as the engine
mount
> falling off) , it takes down the battery bus, the
>> redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect from
the
>> battery/batt bus. ( not quite true as the battery with a shorted cell
> (which doesn't happen) will likely still supply sufficient power to
keep
> the
> engine running especially when supported by an operating alternator.
If
> the
> alternator has sufficient reserve capacity it will "cook" the battery
but
> all of this will take some time giving you ample opportunity to safely
> land)
> It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch between Batt Bus and
>> Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a
problematic
> battery and
>> supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop going round.
> (assuming your particular alternator will function without a battery,
and
> you don't switch a load which stalls it)
>>
>> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
battery
> bus, but adds
>> an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if it's a
> benefit or not. In my opinion it's not.
>>
>> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
sides
> of position
>> one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think I'm
buying
> some switch
>> redundancy with a DPST. (and when one pole of the switch fails ON how
>> does
> the second pole help you turn it off??)
>>
>> What do you all think?
>
> I think it's a bad idea to play with a tried and true design which has
had
> a
> lot of thought about failure modes put into it and try to second guess
> what
> "might" happen. Most of the "Z" figures represent electrical systems
which
> are so superior to anything found in the average "production vehicle"
(be
> it
> airborne or ground based) that your worries are unfounded. Batteries
don't
> magically "fail", engines don't just fall off, prop bolts don't shear.
All
> of these failures are so rare as to be ignored. That's not to say that
> batteries shouldn't be maintained and tested, engine mount integrity
> examined and prop bolts checked, but these failure possibilities don't
> warrant backups. (How would you propose to backup an engine mount for
> example? You just have to trust that it won't fail.)
>>
>> John
>>
>>
> Bob McC
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 question |
At 12:51 PM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt.
40A standby alternator? How big is your main alternator
and how are you mounting a driving a 40A standby machine?
How have you integrated a 40A alternator into Z-13? At
one time, there was a Z-13/20 that proved not to be an
elegant recipe for success and it was withdrawn.
> All mandatory engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
How much current do each of your battery-bus accessories
draw?
>As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
>battery bus, the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is
>no disconnect from the battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a
>DPST ON-ON switch between Batt Bus and Batt position & Alt 2
>position would allow one to isolate a problematic battery and supply
>Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop going round.
>
>I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
>battery bus, but adds an option should there be a battery problem.
>I'm not sure if it's a benefit or not.
The probability of the 'problem' you are hypothesizing
is vanishingly small especially if you worry as
strongly about maintaining the battery as you seem
to worry about it failing. In the TC aviation community,
for high performance airplanes, it is common to pull
a battery from service at about 80% capacity . . . it
is still quite capable of starting engines but no
longer meets design goals for emergency power.
Cells shorted with some regularity in the old flooded
batteries but only after they were no longer suitable
for flight.
>I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
>sides of position one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to
>Alt 2. I think I'm buying some switch redundancy with a DPST.
Before we address details of hardware, let's examine
details of architecture and load analysis. I'm not
sure we have a clear picture of what your proposed
system looks like.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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At 07:12 AM 2/14/2010, you wrote:
>Roger,
>
>Yes, exactly. the G1000 has a ton of features, but they are only
>useful if one knows how to find them. The mechanical part can be
>read in the manual, but the reflexive part can only be learned
>through arm-chair flying, so powering the panel is the objective.
>
>Your battery charger/minder idea is a good one, but I don't know how
>much load can be shed to reduce amp draw. During normal operations,
>it's pretty high at 67 amps, but that's with a bunch of accessories
>and lights running. Perhaps the G1000 load will be <10 amp, but
>something less than 20 amps is probably in a safe range.
You would do well to first understand your
electrical system's demands and deduce what
level of control you have over those demands.
The radio will be less than 10A in a 28v system.
>
>I want to be able to use the same power source for powering the
>panel and then, setting it (or having it smart enough) to go to 1
>amp for trickle charging the battery longer term. I certainly don't
>want to damage the battery by overcharging, since the replacement
>cost implies that Piper has replaced the convention lead-acid
>battery with a gold-acid battery.
The device necessary to operate your systems on
the ground is not a battery charger nor a battery
maintainer. It's a power supply. You need to do
a survey of energy requirements for accomplishing
the proposed ground operations. This means get a
hall effect ammeter . . . or install a temporary
shunt in the battery lead. Bring the readout
device into the cockpit and then start flipping
switches/pulling breakers.
See what configuration of breakers and controls
gives you the desired functionality . . . and
the measure the current necessary to meet that
design goal.
>
>So, the task is to find a 110v input charger that will output 20 amp
>24V for arm-chair flying but is smart enough to go to 1 amp long
>term charging rate, the max recommended for the Concorde 38AH
>battery, when used for battery charging or topping off.
If your power supply emulates alternator performance
then it would be set for 28.5 volts and it would
also charge the battery. For ground ops, you don't
want to burden a power supply tailored to the task
with charging a battery also. Hence, you would set the
power supply down to 25.0 volts.
>
>Are bigger versions of some of the battery minders discussed here
>appropriate for the task? Apologies for asking others to do my
>homework, but it's frustrating to know just enough about an issue to
>have doubts.
We had some discussions here on the list for crafting
a professional grade ground power supply for supporting
maintenance on both 14 and 28v airplanes. The elegant
solution came in the form of an older, Hewlett-Packard
robust bench supply on the order of 30 to 40 amps. This
size device necessarily ran on 240 volts.
But even a 40A supply would not support the ship's
heaviest loads like air conditioners or transient
loads like landing gear retraction systems. Having
the battery 'floated' across the bus would support
transient loads . . . but it's not enough snort
to run large continuous loads.
So the task before you is to define what list
of goodies needs to be supported and then deduce
how much current is required to support those items
plus those over which you have no control.
When you have that number, we can suggest sources
for the hardware suited to your task.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: GPU for Piper |
At 08:12 AM 2/14/2010, you wrote:
>
>Chuck's major problem is that he has a 28v airplane, I thought
>jumpstarts only come in 12v.
Correct . . .
>If you want to go the battery route, buy a couple of cheap auto
>batteries and connect them in series to give you 28v, add a battery
>charger and a ground service plug and you should be set for 1-2 hours of
>ground playtime.
An excellent alternative to a plug-in-the-wall power
supply if one accepts limits to the duration of any
one session. You would want to add a voltmeter to the
system (if not already present) and send class out to
recess when the battery(ies) dropped below about 23
volts.
Class could resume once battery chargers had
the batteries topped off.
You also need to see how the ship's battery
is tied to the system when ground power is plugged
in. Some manufacturers tied their ground power
to the battery side of the battery contactor.
This allowed charging a battery externally without
having the whole airplane "hot". Others tied it
to the bus such that ground power could operated
the airplane with the ship's battery contactor
open. There are good reasons for either philosophy,
you need to know which one has been applied to
your airplane.
The other handy thing about a battery cart is
portability. It can be used to start airplanes
remote from AC mains power. It could be fitted
with both the C-H "Piper" style plug and an
AN2551 compatible plug. With some creative
switching, the batteries could be series or
parallel connected to support both 14 and 28v
airplanes.
Bob . . .
>Bruce
>www.Glasair.org
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe
>McKervey
>Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:58 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs -
>02/13/10
>
><mckervey@charter.net>
>
>Chuck,
>
>The best source of pure DC power is a battery.
>Go to walmart or Harbor Freight etc. and buy a Jump Start battery pack
>with
>a built in charger for less then 100 dollars.It will run everything on
>your
>plane including the starter.
>You can also use it to Jump Start your plane, car, boat or lawnmower.
>
>Joe
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server"
><aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>To: "AeroElectric-List Digest List"
><aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:55 AM
>Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 02/13/10
>
>
> > *
> >
> > =================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =================================================
> >
> > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either
>of
> > the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>formatted
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>version
> > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> > editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
> >
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Cha
>pter 10-02-13&Archive=AeroElectric
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
> >
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chap
>ter 10-02-13&Archive=AeroElectric
> >
> >
> > ===============================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ===============================================
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Sat 02/13/10: 14
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 06:55 AM - Re: Mini blade fuses (Dan Brown)
> > 2. 08:27 AM - Basic Electricity....Grrrrr......... (Eric M.
>Jones)
> > 3. 09:52 AM - Re: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr......... (Robert L.
>
> > Nuckolls, III)
> > 4. 10:22 AM - GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> > 5. 10:53 AM - Z-13 question (jonlaury)
> > 6. 11:30 AM - Re: GPU for Piper (Bruce Gray)
> > 7. 02:11 PM - Re: Z-13 question (B Tomm)
> > 8. 03:14 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> > 9. 03:39 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (n801bh@netzero.com)
> > 10. 04:00 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Chuck Jensen)
> > 11. 04:52 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
> > 12. 06:10 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Allen Fulmer)
> > 13. 07:50 PM - Re: GPU for Piper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> > 14. 10:03 PM - Re: Z-13 question (Bob McCallum)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 06:55:06 AM PST US
> > From: Dan Brown <dan@familybrown.org>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mini blade fuses
> >
> >
> > On 2/12/10 9:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
> >> inventory I sold B&C some years ago. They appear on their
> >> website at:
> >>
> >> http://www.bandc.biz/atctypefuse.aspx
> >
> > These are the ATC fuses, and I was actually looking for the ATM--but
> > what I'm finding at Mouser and such for 1A ATM fuses requires a large
> > order and a long lead time. ATC it is, then. Thanks!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 2
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 08:27:55 AM PST US
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr.........
> > From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
> >
> >
> > Perhaps the stars are misaligned, but I keep getting calls like this:
> >
> > "I bought your PowerSchottky Diode and it has voltage both ways. Don't
>you
> > check
> > this stuff before sending it out?..."
> >
> > "I bought your Powerlink Jr. III 35 amp relay and it won't turn (on
> > or)off...the
> > output still has voltage..."
> >
> > I could go on. I often forget that in the "basic electricity" world
>the
> > existence
> > of a voltage is presumed by many to mean something is ON. I need to
> > include
> > a "This means nothing at all" note in my instruction manuals.
> >
> > Solid state devices often use "pull-down" (or pull-up) resistors to
> > prevent outputs
> > from "floating". But this is done to prevent odd things from
>happening--
> > not usually to prevent voltmeters from reading something silly.
> >
> > Now this is not a unique characteristic of solid state devices. Any
> > typical electromechanical
> > relay will have some voltage on its power output lugs whether it
> > is on or off, only the impedance will be different. A voltmeter with
>no
> > load
> > is pretty useless (but hey, it could be made to give nonsensical
>readings
> > on
> > those ghost-hunter shows).
> >
> > --------
> > Eric M. Jones
> > www.PerihelionDesign.com
> > 113 Brentwood Drive
> > Southbridge, MA 01550
> > (508) 764-2072
> > emjones@charter.net
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286277#286277
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 3
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 09:52:13 AM PST US
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Basic Electricity....Grrrrr.........
> >
> >
> > At 10:26 AM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps the stars are misaligned, but I keep getting calls like this:
> >
> > "I bought your PowerSchottky Diode and it has voltage both ways.
> > Don't you check this stuff before sending it out?..."
> >
> > "I bought your Powerlink Jr. III 35 amp relay and it won't turn (on
> > or)off...the output still has voltage..."
> >
> > I could go on. I often forget that in the "basic electricity" world
> > the existence of a voltage is presumed by many to mean something is
> > ON. I need to include a "This means nothing at all" note in my
> > instruction manuals.
> >
> > Solid state devices often use "pull-down" (or pull-up) resistors to
> > prevent outputs from "floating". But this is done to prevent odd
> > things from happening-- not usually to prevent voltmeters from
> > reading something silly.
> >
> > Now this is not a unique characteristic of solid state devices. Any
> > typical electromechanical relay will have some voltage on its power
> > output lugs whether it is on or off, only the impedance will be
> > different. A voltmeter with no load is pretty useless (but hey, it
> > could be made to give nonsensical readings on those ghost-hunter
>shows).
> >
> > May I suggest some words in your download/handout
> > literature that speaks to errors of deduction that
> > arise from errors of measurement? Some simple test
> > procedures can stand off many unhappy returns from
> > customers that do not understand the physics of our
> > art.
> >
> > While multi-meters still had pointers moving over
> > scale plates behind glass, there was no such thing
> > as a VOLT METER. The meters were in fact sensors of
> > current. They could be made to display voltage by
> > placing a resistor in series with the instrument. E.g.
> > a 0-1 milliampere meter movement might be placed in
> > series with a 20K resistor and be fitted with a scale
> > plate that reads from 0 to 20 volts. With a sensitivity
> > of 1000 ohms/volt, this device would have yielded
> > better data for your un-educated customers. During
> > this same era, we had to go out of our way to craft
> > voltmeters with VERY high sensitivities (Vacuum Tube
> > Voltmeters) that would not load a voltage node driven
> > by a particularly high impedance.
> >
> > Even with all the accuracy and non-loading effects
> > of modern digital voltmeters at DC, they present a whole
> > NEW problem when attempting the measure voltage at nodes
> > where there are radio frequency components riding on
> > the DC. The old VTVM had a resistor (1 to 10 megohms)
> > built into the probe right at the tip. The modern digital
> > meter expects to tell you what the voltage is a end
> > ends of some long wire leads.
> >
> > I have adapted a 'scope probe to a 3/4" banana plug
> > such that I can scale any of several digital meters
> > by a factor of 10 while taking advantage of the
> > very low capacitance/high resistance loads presented
> > by the 'scope probe.
> >
> > Our customer base is the amateur airplane builder.
> > By definition, they're NOT professionals in the
> > broad spectrum of skill sets applicable to the
> > task. Hence, the events you've cited should be
> > expected on some level. I'm disappointed to report
> > that the ranks of those who truly understand the
> > physics of our art are getting pretty thin . . .
> > even amongst professionals with credentials that
> > suggest otherwise.
> >
> > The market we have is the market we have. We can
> > choose to service it with what's necessary and
> > useful to move the various projects ahead or
> > . . . the alternatives are obvious.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 4
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 10:22:42 AM PST US
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
>power
> > unit
> > (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for powering
>a
> > plane's
> > panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing armchair flying to
>
> > sort
> > through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3 thousand, which seems
> > pricey, by
> > not surprising. Surely there is a more man's substitute available?
> >
> >
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 5
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 10:53:36 AM PST US
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> > From: "jonlaury" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
> >
> >
> > I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt.
>All
> > mandatory
> > engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
> >
> > As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
> > battery bus,
> > the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect
>from
> > the
> > battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch between
>Batt
> > Bus
> > and Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a
> > problematic
> > battery and supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop
>going
> > round.
> >
> > I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
>battery
> > bus, but
> > adds an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if it's
>a
> > benefit
> > or not.
> >
> > I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
>sides of
> > position
> > one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think I'm
>buying
> > some switch redundancy with a DPST.
> >
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286296#286296
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 6
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 11:30:36 AM PST US
> > From: "Bruce Gray" <bgray@glasair.org>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> > A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> > is needed.
> >
> > My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
> >
> > http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.Glasair.org
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Chuck
> > Jensen
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> > power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
>for
> > powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> > armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> > thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
>more
> > man's substitute available?
> >
> >
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 7
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 02:11:45 PM PST US
> > From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> >
> >
> > John,
> >
> > I don't think it's a good idea.
> >
> > I don't believe that a "short" is a failure mode for a battery that
>you
> > should be concerned with because it is too rare especially on a well
> > maintained battery. Perhaps you meant a single shorted cell, while
>also
> > rare but if it did happen, would still produce enough current at an
> > acceptable voltage to run EFI, or so I believe.
> >
> > Adding switches or relays to add control of the battery bus obviously
>adds
> > failure points which I think would be orders of magnitude more likely
>than
> > a
> > "shorted" battery.
> >
> > If your main alternator (electrical energy generator) fails, the
>battery
> > (electrical energy reservoir) is a short term back up and should be
>sized
> > to
> > power your essential loads longer than your total onboard fuel supply.
>
> > You
> > have a second alternator, so that is your indefinite backup (in my
> > opinion).
> > If your battery is always maintained and replaced regularly, I don't
>think
> > you will ever go without sufficient electrons at-the-ready.
> >
> > My opinions only. Others may disagree.
> >
> > Bevan
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > jonlaury
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:51 AM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> >
> > --> <jonlaury@impulse.net>
> >
> > I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby alt.
>All
> > mandatory engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
> >
> > As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short , it takes down the
> > battery
> > bus, the redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no
>disconnect
> > from the battery/batt bus. It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch
> > between
> > Batt Bus and Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate
>a
> > problematic battery and supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping
>the
> > prop going round.
> >
> > I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
>battery
> > bus, but adds an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not
>sure if
> > it's a benefit or not.
> >
> > I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
>sides of
> > position one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I
>think
> > I'm
> > buying some switch redundancy with a DPST.
> >
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286296#286296
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 8
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 03:14:28 PM PST US
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
>Piper
> > plug,
> > which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your link was
>a
> > good one.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> > Diversified Technologies
> > 2680 Westcott Blvd
> > Knoxville, TN 37931
> > Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> > Cell: 865-406-9001
> > Fax: 865-539-9001
> > cjensen@dts9000.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Bruce
> > Gray
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> >
> > A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> > is needed.
> >
> > My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
> >
> > http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.Glasair.org
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Chuck
> > Jensen
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> > power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
>for
> > powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> > armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> > thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
>more
> > man's substitute available?
> >
> >
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 9
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 03:39:54 PM PST US
> > From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@NetZero.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> > Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
> > 11042 plug
> > With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
> > grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
> > Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
> >
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Ben Haas
> > N801BH
> > www.haaspowerair.com
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > .com>
> >
> > Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
>Piper
> > plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your
>link
> > was a good one.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> > Diversified Technologies
> > 2680 Westcott Blvd
> > Knoxville, TN 37931
> > Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> > Cell: 865-406-9001
> > Fax: 865-539-9001
> > cjensen@dts9000.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Bruce
> > Gray
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> > A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> > is needed.
> >
> > My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
> >
> > http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.Glasair.org
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Chuck
> >
> > Jensen
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> > power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
>for
> > powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> > armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> > thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
>more
> >
> > man's substitute available?
> >
> >
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> >
> > =======================
> > ==========
> > =======================
> > ==========
> > =======================
> > ==========
> > =======================
> > ==========
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Love Spell
> > Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5
> >
>AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
> > wAAAAA
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 10
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 04:00:03 PM PST US
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Thanks for the refresher, Ben, I recall of having seen that part
>number
> > before and it may well suit my purposes.
> >
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > n801bh@netzero.com
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:37 PM
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> > Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
> >
> > 11042 plug
> >
> > With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
> >
> > grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
> >
> > Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
> >
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Ben Haas
> > N801BH
> > www.haaspowerair.com
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
>Piper
> > plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your
>link
> > was a good one.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> > Diversified Technologies
> > 2680 Westcott Blvd
> > Knoxville, TN 37931
> > Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> > Cell: 865-406-9001
> > Fax: 865-539-9001
> > cjensen@dts9000.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Bruce
> > Gray
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> > <bgray@glasair.org>
> >
> > A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> > is needed.
> >
> > My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
> >
> > http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.Glasair.org
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Chuck
> > Jensen
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> > power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
>for
> > powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> > armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> > thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
>more
> > man's substitute
> > available=====================
> > ======================sp;
> >
> > -Ma=======================
> > =================
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Love Spell
> >
><http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5>
>AAAJ1GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
>w
> > AAAAA=>
> > Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 11
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 04:52:06 PM PST US
> > From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > ==> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen"
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> > power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
>for
> > powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> > armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> > thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
>more
> > man's substitute available
> >
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > If I understand correctly, that you want to operate the electronics
> > without
> > the engine running. If this is the case, why not just connect a
>battery
> > maintainer to your battery, plug it in, and it will keep your battery
>at
> > full charge while running the electronics, provided you have a
>maintainer
> > with enough capacity. I would assume you would not need more than
>about
> > 10
> > amps, so it would not take a very large unit to accomplish this task.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 12
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 06:10:58 PM PST US
> > From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I
> > bought
> > the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft Spruce after
> > reading Bob N's article on modifying for our OBAM aircraft.
> >
> >
> > ACS catalog page:
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf
> >
> >
> > AeroElectric connection article:
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
> >
> >
> > Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me? Socket was 10 oz. and
>plug
> > was
> > 7.2 oz. I guess I really might not have needed the plug as FBO is
> > supposed
> > to have this on his "battery cart?"
> >
> >
> > Not sure if I am going to use it but it is not decision time yet.
> >
> >
> > Allen Fulmer
> >
> > RV7 Finishing wiring
> >
> >
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > n801bh@netzero.com
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:37 PM
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> > Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #
> >
> > 11042 plug
> >
> > With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring
> >
> > grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.
> >
> > Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.
> >
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Ben Haas
> > N801BH
> > www.haaspowerair.com
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the
>Piper
> > plug, which is only overpriced by about double. Nonetheless, your
>link
> > was
> > a good one.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck Jensen
> >
> > Diversified Technologies
> > 2680 Westcott Blvd
> > Knoxville, TN 37931
> > Phn: 865-539-9000 x100
> > Cell: 865-406-9001
> > Fax: 865-539-9001
> > cjensen@dts9000.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Bruce
> > Gray
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:29 PM
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> >
> >
> > A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that
> > is needed.
> >
> > My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)
> >
> > http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> > www.Glasair.org
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Chuck
> > Jensen
> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:15 PM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground
> > power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used
>for
> > powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing
> > armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al? Piper wants 2-3
> > thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising. Surely there is a
>more
> > man's substitute
> >
>available==============================================================
>==
> >
>=======================================================================
>==
> > =sp;
>-Ma=========================================
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Love Spell
> >
><http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/c?cp=BZFRgpccG3kVJsWTzIFa5A
>AAJ1>
>GgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAA
>A=>
> > Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 13
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 07:50:12 PM PST US
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
> >
> > At 08:08 PM 2/13/2010, you wrote:
> >>Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I
> >>bought the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft
> >>Spruce after reading Bob N's article on modifying for our OBAM
>aircraft.
> >>
> >>ACS catalog page:
> >><http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf>http://
>www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf
> >>
> >>AeroElectric connection article:
> >><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf>http://www.aeroelect
>ric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
> >>
> >>Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me? Socket was 10 oz. and
> >>plug was 7.2 oz. I guess I really might not have needed the plug as
> >>FBO is supposed to have this on his "battery cart?"
> >
> > Yup . . . that's the general rule. Actually, the
> > "Piper" connector is a lighter, lower cost
> > alternative to the AN2551 found on other brands
> > and the heavier Piper aircraft. The C.H. 11041
> > and mating connector was originally created for
> > the ground based vehicles market like OTR trucks
> > and electric fork-lifts. I've used this connector
> > on several 100+ AMP test systems for really BIG
> > motors. To my knowledge, Piper was the only folk
> > who used this connector on the lighter singles. I'm
> > pretty sure all Brand C and Brand B airplanes used
> > the AN2551. Any FBO worth his ground power revenues
> > will have both.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 14
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 10:03:39 PM PST US
> > From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> >
> > John;
> >
> > See embedded comments. These are not intended in any way to be "smart
> > assed"
> > just trying to illustrate my personal opinion and understanding of
>the
> > question.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonlaury
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:51 PM
> >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 question
> >>
> >>
> >> I have an all-electric airplane and am using Z-13 with a 40a stby
>alt.
> >> All
> > mandatory
> >> engine power (EFI, IGN, etc) is on the battery bus
> >>
> >> As I understand Z-13, if the battery has a short(with a modern
>properly
> > maintained AGM/VRLA battery this is about as likely as the engine
>mount
> > falling off) , it takes down the battery bus, the
> >> redundant alternators notwithstanding, as there is no disconnect from
>the
> >> battery/batt bus. ( not quite true as the battery with a shorted cell
> > (which doesn't happen) will likely still supply sufficient power to
>keep
> > the
> > engine running especially when supported by an operating alternator.
>If
> > the
> > alternator has sufficient reserve capacity it will "cook" the battery
>but
> > all of this will take some time giving you ample opportunity to safely
>
> > land)
> > It seems that putting a DPST ON-ON switch between Batt Bus and
> >> Batt position & Alt 2 position would allow one to isolate a
>problematic
> > battery and
> >> supply Alt 2 power to the Batt Bus and keeping the prop going round.
> > (assuming your particular alternator will function without a battery,
>and
> > you don't switch a load which stalls it)
> >>
> >> I recognize that this defeats the bonehead-proof design of a hot
>battery
> > bus, but adds
> >> an option should there be a battery problem. I'm not sure if it's a
> > benefit or not. In my opinion it's not.
> >>
> >> I would wire the two switch poles together to the batt buss, both
>sides
> > of position
> >> one to the battery, both sides of position 2 to Alt 2. I think I'm
>buying
> > some switch
> >> redundancy with a DPST. (and when one pole of the switch fails ON how
>
> >> does
> > the second pole help you turn it off??)
> >>
> >> What do you all think?
> >
> > I think it's a bad idea to play with a tried and true design which has
>had
> > a
> > lot of thought about failure modes put into it and try to second guess
>
> > what
> > "might" happen. Most of the "Z" figures represent electrical systems
>which
> > are so superior to anything found in the average "production vehicle"
>(be
> > it
> > airborne or ground based) that your worries are unfounded. Batteries
>don't
> > magically "fail", engines don't just fall off, prop bolts don't shear.
>All
> > of these failures are so rare as to be ignored. That's not to say that
> > batteries shouldn't be maintained and tested, engine mount integrity
> > examined and prop bolts checked, but these failure possibilities don't
> > warrant backups. (How would you propose to backup an engine mount for
> > example? You just have to trust that it won't fail.)
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> > Bob McC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 question |
"How big is your main alternator
and how are you mounting a driving a 40A standby machine?
How have you integrated a 40A alternator into Z-13? At
one time, there was a Z-13/20 that proved not to be an
elegant recipe for success and it was withdrawn. "
The main is 60A. The engine is a Franklin. When I installed EFI, the now vacant
mechanical fuel pump pad provided a place to install a second alternator drive.
The 40A ND alternator bolts thru it's mounting boss to the accessory case and
the adjustment bracket the same.
Re Z-13/20, we had a discussion about that and you recommended /8.
I really didn't investigate /20 any further to see what differences there are from
/8 and I assumed that the size of the stby alternator in /8 was irrelevant.
"How much current do each of your battery-bus accessories
draw? "
EFI 5-8 amps (duty cycle dependent), EI (both) 7amps, Fuel pump (1 of 2) 3.5amps
"The probability of the 'problem' you are hypothesizing
is vanishingly small ...snip...after they were no longer suitable
for flight."
Point taken. Not worried about it any more.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286392#286392
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 question |
>The main is 60A. The engine is a Franklin. When I installed EFI, the
>now vacant mechanical fuel pump pad provided a place to install a
>second alternator drive. The 40A ND alternator bolts thru it's
>mounting boss to the accessory case and the adjustment bracket the same.
>
>Re Z-13/20, we had a discussion about that and you recommended /8.
>I really didn't investigate /20 any further to see what differences
>there are from /8 and I assumed that the size of the stby alternator
>in /8 was irrelevant.
>
Is your standby alternator internally or externally
regulated?
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 question |
> Is your standby alternator internally or externally
>regulated?
ER. Was IR.
Out put is 20a @ 2000 shaft rpm, 30a @ 3200, 40a @ 5000. Engine alt drive @ 1.65
x eng rpm.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286418#286418
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| Subject: | Quote Function "How to" ? |
Can someone explain how to use the "quote" function? I can't seem to get consistent
results and didn't find anything in the Matronics FAQ or archives.
Thanks
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286422#286422
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 question |
At 02:01 PM 2/14/2010, you wrote:
>
> > Is your standby alternator internally or externally
> >regulated?
>
>
>ER. Was IR.
>Out put is 20a @ 2000 shaft rpm, 30a @ 3200, 40a @ 5000. Engine alt
>drive @ 1.65 x eng rpm.
Hmmmm . . . you may not quite see 40A from this alternator
assuming red-line at 2700 . . . but it still seems quite
adequate to the task.
What's the expected loads on the battery bus?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Nuck/Roger/Bruce,
Good ideas all. Bob suggested external power suggestion that sometimes
it is connected through the battery and other times around the battery.
In this case, the Meridian has external power plugged with the battery
contactor open (off). For utility purposed, the battery start pack and
a good high amp charger seems like it would serve my purposes and still
have the utility of starting/charging the plane or other's plane.
I like the idea of having the battery in the circuit as has been advised
many times on this site, it's a world class capacitor and keeps a lot of
things from bad endings when things don't go exactly right.
I believe the minimum am load is about 12-13 amp, but the POH doesn't
speak to it directly. I'm going to check with Piper to see if they see
any shortcomings of this method. Hopefully, I can wrangle an answer out
of them after they give me the spiel for the $3K charger.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper
At 07:12 AM 2/14/2010, you wrote:
Roger,
Yes, exactly. the G1000 has a ton of features, but they are only useful
if one knows how to find them. The mechanical part can be read in the
manual, but the reflexive part can only be learned through arm-chair
flying, so powering the panel is the objective.
Your battery charger/minder idea is a good one, but I don't know how
much load can be shed to reduce amp draw. During normal operations,
it's pretty high at 67 amps, but that's with a bunch of accessories and
lights running. Perhaps the G1000 load will be <10 amp, but something
less than 20 amps is probably in a safe range.
You would do well to first understand your
electrical system's demands and deduce what
level of control you have over those demands.
The radio will be less than 10A in a 28v system.
I want to be able to use the same power source for powering the panel
and then, setting it (or having it smart enough) to go to 1 amp for
trickle charging the battery longer term. I certainly don't want to
damage the battery by overcharging, since the replacement cost implies
that Piper has replaced the convention lead-acid battery with a
gold-acid battery.
The device necessary to operate your systems on
the ground is not a battery charger nor a battery
maintainer. It's a power supply. You need to do
a survey of energy requirements for accomplishing
the proposed ground operations. This means get a
hall effect ammeter . . . or install a temporary
shunt in the battery lead. Bring the readout
device into the cockpit and then start flipping
switches/pulling breakers.
See what configuration of breakers and controls
gives you the desired functionality . . . and
the measure the current necessary to meet that
design goal.
So, the task is to find a 110v input charger that will output 20 amp 24V
for arm-chair flying but is smart enough to go to 1 amp long term
charging rate, the max recommended for the Concorde 38AH battery, when
used for battery charging or topping off.
If your power supply emulates alternator performance
then it would be set for 28.5 volts and it would
also charge the battery. For ground ops, you don't
want to burden a power supply tailored to the task
with charging a battery also. Hence, you would set the
power supply down to 25.0 volts.
Are bigger versions of some of the battery minders discussed here
appropriate for the task? Apologies for asking others to do my
homework, but it's frustrating to know just enough about an issue to
have doubts.
We had some discussions here on the list for crafting
a professional grade ground power supply for supporting
maintenance on both 14 and 28v airplanes. The elegant
solution came in the form of an older, Hewlett-Packard
robust bench supply on the order of 30 to 40 amps. This
size device necessarily ran on 240 volts.
But even a 40A supply would not support the ship's
heaviest loads like air conditioners or transient
loads like landing gear retraction systems. Having
the battery 'floated' across the bus would support
transient loads . . . but it's not enough snort
to run large continuous loads.
So the task before you is to define what list
of goodies needs to be supported and then deduce
how much current is required to support those items
plus those over which you have no control.
When you have that number, we can suggest sources
for the hardware suited to your task.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13 question |
"Hmmmm . . . you may not quite see 40A from this alternator
assuming red-line at 2700 . . . but it still seems quite
adequate to the task.
What's the expected loads on the battery bus? "
EFI 5-8 amps (duty cycle dependent), EI (both) 7amps, Fuel pump (1 of 2) 3.5amp,
E-Bus alt feed 10 amps. So all up, less than 30 amps including transmit power
and full duty cycle on the injectors.
The standard pulley on the Franklin overdrives the alt by about 10% and I could
change pulleys to get the alt shaft speed up more, but I think the 30 amps is
plenty and I'd like to keep the stby alt speed as low as possible for bearing
life. 30 amps happens at about 1940 eng rpm so at normal power settings, there
would be more than 30amps available.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286506#286506
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Starter engaged light |
At 08:41 AM 2/9/2010, you wrote:
>Bob,
>I was concerned when I read this post, as my OV/LV Sensor is just
>the opposite.
>The documentation that was provided from B&C states that "A flashing
>light indicates a bus voltage greater than 15.5 volts DC, ; Steady
>light indicates bus voltage below 12.5 volts DC."
>That is how mine operates. Just trying to keep the confusion to a minimum.
>Thanks for all you do.
Oh . . . THAT OV/LV sensor. Yeah, I designed that
one too. We needed to achieve dual functionality
of a single indicator hence flashing vs. steady
light.
But just the same, the light should be illuminated
before you bring the alternator on line . . . and
go out when the bus voltage rises supported by
alternator output.
That product was designed for ultra-lights that
generally have small alternators and no ov
protection. If your system DOES have OV
protection, should will probably never see
a flashing light. The OV event should detected
and shut down so fast that by the time you
see the light, it will be steady indicating
a LV condition.
In any case, the light DOES things during
startup that meets the "pre flight testable"
design philosophy without providing a separate
PTT feature.
Bob . . .
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