AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 02/24/10


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:49 AM - Alt Cb Pops (Richard Talbot)
     2. 08:08 AM - Re: Failure modes with Z14 (user9253)
     3. 09:15 AM - Re: Alt Cb Pops (Tim Olson)
     4. 11:23 AM - 3010042 fuel vmc transducer wtb (Randy Pinkston)
     5. 11:47 AM - Re: Failure Modes with Z14 (Jeff Page)
     6. 12:02 PM - Figure Z? (Kenneth Johnson)
     7. 01:04 PM - Re: Failure Modes with Z14 (ray)
     8. 01:16 PM - Re: Failure modes with Z14 (user9253)
     9. 01:23 PM - Re: Figure Z? ()
    10. 06:30 PM - Re: Alt Cb Pops (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 08:14 PM - Official color of levers (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
    12. 09:35 PM - GPU connection philosophy WAS: Re: GPU for Piper (John McMahon)
    13. 09:42 PM - GNS430 Wire Book (Brooks Wolfe)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:49:59 AM PST US
    From: Richard Talbot <richard@talbots.net.au>
    Subject: Alt Cb Pops
    G'day List, I have a problem that my Plane Power alternator has started poping the crowbar OV CB when I switch on the ignition. I have 90 hours so far without too many issues. I have checked wiring etc and run continuity checks. There is no resistance in the wiring runs. The current draw is 10A through the CB and it pops 3-5 seconds after switch on. Any ideas? I think the internals might have failed. Could there be a cheap fix? Thanks Richard


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:08:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Failure modes with Z14
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    Jeff, > Perhaps two OV modules would do it, but I would feel more comfortable with an isolated system. The advantage of building your own plane is that you can design it to meet your goals. > How did you test them? I expect that applying 16V to the sense lead would result in the field breaker tripping. My concern would be duplicating the shorted regulator scenario, that is, applying 12V directly to the field terminal. > Testing is accomplished by applying a high voltage directly to the OV module and not to the rest of the electrical system. Do this by disconnecting the wire to the OV module and inserting 2 D-Cells in series with the wire. The test can be conducted with the engine not running. See this circuit: http://tinyurl.com/ydpjzkl This document also describes testing the over voltage protection, but it does not test the circuit breaker: http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf > I would add a small battery to ensure the SD-8 produces power. The SD-8 is a permanent magnet alternator. It does not require any battery power to excite the field windings because there are none. Bob N offers very good philosophy on the subject of backup systems: http://tinyurl.com/ybbdffj Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287974#287974


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:15:03 AM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: Alt Cb Pops
    I'd start with calling them. They seem to be very good at supporting people, so maybe they'll just take it in and check/fix it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Richard Talbot wrote: > > G'day List, > > I have a problem that my Plane Power alternator has started poping the > crowbar OV CB when I switch on the ignition. I have 90 hours so far > without too many issues. > > I have checked wiring etc and run continuity checks. There is no > resistance in the wiring runs. The current draw is 10A through the CB > and it pops 3-5 seconds after switch on. > > Any ideas? I think the internals might have failed. Could there be a > cheap fix? > > Thanks > Richard >


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:23:56 AM PST US
    From: "Randy Pinkston" <pinkston@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: 3010042 fuel vmc transducer wtb
    Anyone have a vision micro fuel transducer # 3010042 for sale 704-694-5053 Randy Pinkston


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:47:08 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Page <jpx@qenesis.com>
    Subject: Re: Failure Modes with Z14
    Ray, My circuit diagram and the switch panel layout are available here: http://www.qenesis.com/tundra/Electrical Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 Re: Failure Modes with Z14 > I would be interested in seeing your "Light/line" switch layout on your > panel. Sounds like a good idea. Are there any pictures posted anywhere > I can look at? > > Raymond Julian


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:02:50 PM PST US
    From: Kenneth Johnson <kjohnsondds@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Figure Z?
    Hi Electrical Gurus,=0AI have been building a Zenith CH 801 for the past se veral years.- It has given me time to plan for engine placement and panel instruments.- Wiring the plane and panel has been a concern.- In placi ng questions on the internet regarding wiring, several people recommended t his site, along with purchasing the AeroElectric Connection.- After readi ng the AeroElectric Connection, I was looking for a schematic that would re flect the engine I am using.- I am using a Mazda rotary engine that has b een built by Dave Atkins.- It has a new Bosch AL394X alternator which ind icates it rectifies 100% and has its own voltage regulator.- The engine c omes with a Microtech LT-10 RX8 13B Sequential electronic engine management system.- =0A=0ABasically, this is an automotive engine.- It has one al ternator and no magnitos.- It has been build to produce about 180 hp.- What Z wiring diagram fits this engine?=0A=0AThe chapter on batteries sugge sts an Odyssey PC680 battery.- In doing research on this battery, it seem s to be indicated for a motorcycle engine.- Would it provide enough crank ing power?- Would the Odyssey PC925 battery be better?- Zenith recommen ds that the battery fit under the passenger seat.- Since the rotary engin e is lighter than the recommended Lycoming 360, the engine will probably be place more anterior from the firewall.- This will leave room to mound an Odyssey PC680 mounted to the firewall.- It weighs 15.4 pounds.--- ThePC 925 weighs 24 pounds and may be another story.=0A=0AIn reading, many times it suggested that grounding the engine should be done through the eng ine pan.- Is there a reason why the engine pan is used VS gounding direct ly to the engine block?=0A=0AThe Zenith 801 is a bush plane.- My goal in finishing the plane is to keep it as light as possible.- Over the last se veral months I have "listened" in on the discussion of fuses vs breakers an d whether a transponder is needed.- Basically, I believe what a person re ally needs is a list of parts needed to wire a panel and where they can be purchased.- There were good suggestions on fuse blocks and cup holders, b ut many things are missing.- I guess it first begins with which Z diagram I need to use and then, I can go from there.=0A=0AI have studied Spanish f or thirty years, and-can-do well.- However, if we had a discussion on auto parts in Spanish, I would be lost.- In reading your discussions on many issues, I feel like the kid who can tell you, "Where is the bathroom" in spanish, but is lost when asked to say more.- As a read more and more, I catch a little more.- However, there is a large void to fill.- =0A =0AThanks for your discussions=0A=0AKen Johnson=0A=0A=0A


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:04:40 PM PST US
    From: ray <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Failure Modes with Z14
    Jeff, Thanks for the link. Your layout looks like a good way to aid in decision making during high stress events. I will definitely include that feature in my panel planning. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. Jeff Page wrote: > > Ray, > > My circuit diagram and the switch panel layout are available here: > http://www.qenesis.com/tundra/Electrical > > Jeff Page > Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > > Re: Failure Modes with Z14 > >> I would be interested in seeing your "Light/line" switch layout on your >> panel. Sounds like a good idea. Are there any pictures posted anywhere >> I can look at? >> >> Raymond Julian > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:16:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Failure modes with Z14
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    Jeff, I looked over your schematic at http://www.qenesis.com/tundra/Electrical/Tundra_Power_Wiring.pdf and it looks very good. It would be interesting to see the internal schematic for the low voltage module and the purpose of the wires connected to it from switches. I am not saying that anything is wrong, only that I do not know what is inside of that box and how it works. Good job. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288019#288019


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:23:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Figure Z?
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Ken, This is quite an assortment of questions. It will be best to break them down. These are typical questions which can each be answered individually. Be sure to spend time to search the list archives for individual topics. Many of them answered before. On Batteries... I use the PC680 which is 17AH and has plenty of umph to kick over my 200 HP IO-375. It fits my design goals. As far as weight, about 15 pounds and yes it could go under your seat. As far as true capacity is concerned, you'll need to do a full analysis of your design goals and mission before buying. Remember, contactors live near batteries, batteries live where your design needs them. Front, back, wherever. In General any good recumbent gas battery www.bandc.biz will work well in the aircraft and can be installed in any position. Whoever wrote the book on grounding the airplanes electrical system via the engine oil pan is a complete Gomer. Hit him over the head. When's the last time you saw a battery ground go straight to the oil pan? The language may have intended another meaning. Bolt/Weld it to the block - that's it. Bob has several Z diagrams which lend themselves to auto or electrical dependent installation. Again, the diagrams are based on missions success and ultimately what you want or want to tolerate in your design. A bit of time and a good checkbook will fix most of the issues. Enjoy, Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Johnson Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Figure Z? Hi Electrical Gurus, I have been building a Zenith CH 801 for the past several years. It has given me time to plan for engine placement and panel instruments. Wiring the plane and panel has been a concern. In placing questions on the internet regarding wiring, several people recommended this site, along with purchasing the AeroElectric Connection. After reading the AeroElectric Connection, I was looking for a schematic that would reflect the engine I am using. I am using a Mazda rotary engine that has been built by Dave Atkins. It has a new Bosch AL394X alternator which indicates it rectifies 100% and has its own voltage regulator. The engine comes with a Microtech LT-10 RX8 13B Sequential electronic engine management system. Basically, this is an automotive engine. It has one alternator and no magnitos. It has been build to produce about 180 hp. What Z wiring diagram fits this engine? The chapter on batteries suggests an Odyssey PC680 battery. In doing research on this battery, it seems to be indicated for a motorcycle engine. Would it provide enough cranking power? Would the Odyssey PC925 battery be better? Zenith recommends that the battery fit under the passenger seat. Since the rotary engine is lighter than the recommended Lycoming 360, the engine will probably be place more anterior from the firewall. This will leave room to mound an Odyssey PC680 mounted to the firewall. It weighs 15.4 pounds. ThePC 925 weighs 24 pounds and may be another story. In reading, many times it suggested that grounding the engine should be done through the engine pan. Is there a reason why the engine pan is used VS gounding directly to the engine block? The Zenith 801 is a bush plane. My goal in finishing the plane is to keep it as light as possible. Over the last several months I have "listened" in on the discussion of fuses vs breakers and whether a transponder is needed. Basically, I believe what a person really needs is a list of parts needed to wire a panel and where they can be purchased. There were good suggestions on fuse blocks and cup holders, but many things are missing. I guess it first begins with which Z diagram I need to use and then, I can go from there. I have studied Spanish for thirty years, andcando well. However, if we had a discussion on auto parts in Spanish, I would be lost. In reading your discussions on many issues, I feel like the kid who can tell you, "Where is the bathroom" in spanish, but is lost when asked to say more. As a read more and more, I catch a little more. However, there is a large void to fill. Thanks for your discussions Ken Johnson


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:30:24 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Alt Cb Pops
    At 05:47 AM 2/24/2010, you wrote: ><richard@talbots.net.au> > >G'day List, > >I have a problem that my Plane Power alternator has started poping the >crowbar OV CB when I switch on the ignition. I have 90 hours so far >without too many issues. > >I have checked wiring etc and run continuity checks. There is no >resistance in the wiring runs. The current draw is 10A through the CB >and it pops 3-5 seconds after switch on. Hmmmm . . . I think the breaker is 5A. A 10A draw is indeed suspicious. The max draw on this wire is generally no more than 3 to 3.5 amps engine stopped and much less in flight. >Any ideas? I think the internals might have failed. Could there be a >cheap fix? Probably not. Shorted turns in the field winding are the most plausible hypothesis but I have a hard time figuring out how this might happen. You'll probably have to return it to PlanePower for diagnosis . . . but if you have MEASURED a 10A draw before the breaker pops, then it's a certainty that something is wrong inside the alternator. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:14:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Official color of levers
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Is there an officiallisting ofcolor to be used on balls or knobs for control levers? I think Black for throttle, Blue for prop, Red for mixture. How about cowl flap, choke, wheel brake, glider airbrake and doors? If not official, what would standard practice for color be for cowl flap, choke, wheel brake, glider airbrake and door? I want to have my aluminum balls and knobs anozied and there are plenty of colors to choose from sooooo.... Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:35:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: GPU for Piper
    From: John McMahon <blackoaks@gmail.com>
    Bob, Could you expand on the two philosophies or point me to a further discussion. I've been wrestling with both ways and each time I decide one way, I think about it some more and change my mind...again? Is either choice superior or is it six of one and half a dozen of the other? As usual, thanks for all the thought and knowledge you share with all of us. On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > > <snip>You also need to see how the ship's battery > is tied to the system when ground power is plugged > in. Some manufacturers tied their ground power > to the battery side of the battery contactor. > This allowed charging a battery externally without > having the whole airplane "hot". Others tied it > to the bus such that ground power could operated > the airplane with the ship's battery contactor > open. There are good reasons for either philosophy, > you need to know which one has been applied to > your airplane. <snip> >


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:42:56 PM PST US
    From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream@wavecable.com>
    Subject: GNS430 Wire Book
    I'm still trying to sort out my GNS430W's lack of comm. I had the unit bench tested here locally, and it works just fine at the avionics shop, s o the issue must be my wiring somewhere. The wire book for AGATE that I've downloaded shows the 430 being hooked up through the GMA340. All I want to use is a simple Sigtronics intercom; no audio panel. The Sigtronics does not have "audio low" or "mic low" inputs. I believe I read somewhere that these are to be grounded, so that's what I did, but I can't find that reference right now. The Garmin manual (4.7.2.3) states that they're balanced inputs, and that both must be connected. I'm a bit wary of experimenting willy-nilly with this radio, so I haven't gone and tried tying them together yet. Also, the AGATE wire book shows a "Comm Mic Return" pin 8 on P4002, to be joined with the Comm Audio Lo. The Garmin manual simply shows that as a reserved or unused pin. Brooks Wolfe




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