Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:14 AM - Re: Battery charging (Speedy11@aol.com)
2. 09:03 AM - Re: Z13/20 (Noah)
3. 09:25 AM - Re: Battery charging (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 10:36 AM - Re: Z13/20 (jonlaury)
5. 03:06 PM - Re: Battery charging (rampil)
6. 03:59 PM - Daniels positioner question (Dan Brown)
7. 04:43 PM - Re: Battery charging (Joe Dubner)
8. 04:52 PM - Re: Z13/20 (RV7ASask)
9. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Battery charging (David Barrett)
10. 06:57 PM - Re: This switch OK? (user9253)
11. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Z13/20 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 07:40 PM - Re: Daniels positioner question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: Z13/20 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:07 PM - Re: Z13/20 (rckol)
15. 09:33 PM - Re: Re: Z13/20 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 09:34 PM - Re: Re: Battery charging (James Robinson)
17. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: Battery charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 10:57 PM - Re: Questions ()
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
As is normal for this list, the gentleman's question was not answered and
he was instead admonished for using his time-proven techniques (which are
not opposed by the list moderator).
I, too, am interested in an answer to James' question.
Please allow me to rephrase James' question.
Are you familiar with the M&B 20 AH CSB battery?
Have you used it in an airplane?
Is it suitable for use in an airplane?
Would you recommend it?
My technique is to change one of my two batteries each year. It is my
technique and I'm not asking for comment on my technique.
Any responses to the questions above regarding the M&B 20 AH CSB battery?
Stan Sutterfield
I have been using Panasonic 17AH batteries (2) in my all electric airplane
for
a few years. I usually change them out at annual time. Someone
recommended
a 20 AH CSB from m&B battery company. It is the same size and a few
dollars cheaper.
Any comment?
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
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When I have heard the term kluge, I have taken it to be a catch-all word for the
fact that a design has one or more less than desirable characteristics, or failure
modes, or performance inhibitors. Additionally, I take the term kluge
to mean that a design can be significantly simplified and still perform the same
function. Merriam Webster defines the term as a system made up of poorly matched
components.
I have repeatedly asked what are the negative implications, the failure modes,
the performance hits when using a Z-13 architecture (UNLIMITED ENDURANCE given
any single point failure) with a 20A aux alternator. None have been offered,
and this most recent response, indicating that Z-13/20 will function as advertised
seems to tell me that there are none (over and above those found with Z13/8).
Do I understand your position correctly? It this simply a case of personal
bias against any endurance bus requiring >8A because you deem it generally
unnecessary and a little more costly and a little bit heavier? Just trying to
understand your position here. Another way of saying this: are the FMEA for
both the Z-13/8 and Z-13/20 essentially equivalent / identical? If this is the
case I am still baffled by the continued strong position against Z-13/20 to
the extent that you have completely disavowed it like a red-headed bastard step-child,
pulling it from your website and other publications.
The concept of a (limited) endurance bus is a very good one certainly significantly
better than the typical spam-can fleet. But isnt the concept of an UNLIMITED
ENDURANCE bus, as afforded by Z-13 in both the 8 and 20-A varieties, significantly
better still? If so, why have you continually steered dozens of builders
interested in a Z-13 architecture with a 20A E-bus away from this architecture,
to a Z-12, with a LIMITED ENDURANCE bus, or to a Z-14, with significantly
greater complexity, cost, and weight when Z-13 offers SIMPLICITY and UNLIMITED
ENDURANCE given any probabilistic single point failure?
I still have an uneasy feeling that I must be missing something, that there must
be more to it given your continued and strong position on this, but for the
life of me, I dont know what it is.
--------
Highest Regards,
Noah Forden
RV-7A
Rhode Island
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288928#288928
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
Thank You David and Jim,
Just wondered as I have been using the capacity tests for the last five or
six years. I don't think it is imperative to do so, but it is interesting
<G>
I find that some batteries do fail the test before I would have normally
replaced them. As Jim mentioned. I try to use those batteries in a garden
tractor or similar non critical application.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 3/1/2010 6:04:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
skywagon@charter.net writes:
Ol' Bob,
Always enjoy your sage additions to this and other aviation related lists.
To answer your question about "Capacity checking". No, I do not do a
formal check annually and probably should. I use other farmer style method....
Example, .. my 185 is fuel injected. Every once in a while, I don't hold
my gum and tongue in the right place and miss judge a hot start procedure
especially in hot summer time. Next, what comes is probably the hardest
application for a battery.
I can misjudge once or twice a year, and the procedure to clear the vapor
lock in the injection system, clearing the engine, priming properly and
then doing the restart can make an aged battery wheeze. I use that crude rule
of thumb to determine if my battery is just not making the juice anymore.
I don't recommend it, but, it works for me. In 40 years of flying, I have
not been electron deficient.
However, I am a big advocate of using the small Maintainer type devices to
keep the float voltage at par.
David
____________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: _James Robinson_ (mailto:jbr79r@yahoo.com)
(mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery charging
In the big scheme of things the battery is a small expense. Especially
the ones mentioned. I do not do a capacity check only because it is not
something I want to spend the time messing with. I use the removed batteries
for other applications.
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
____________________________________
From: "_BobsV35B@aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com) " <_BobsV35B@aol.com_
(mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com) >
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 11:22:02 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery charging
Good Afternoon Dave and James,
I am curious as to whether or not either of you run capacity checks on a
regular basis. Isn't that the way the FEDs like us to do it on certified
flying machines?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
LL22
Piper PA-20-150
In a message dated 3/1/2010 11:41:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
skywagon@charter.net writes:
James,
Curious why you change them out so often.
I'll assume they are fairly expensive batteries.
Do you use a "maintainer" on them on the parked days...? I use Concords
and Gill. These get maybe changed out in 5 years, but, they always have a
maintainer attached during off flying periods. When I do change them out
they are still functioning normally but, like you, there is a period limit
that one feels comfortable.
Dave
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longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
> Noah,
>
> snip.... Z-13 was not intended
> as an all out fully redundant Rambo system, nor is it designed to
> sustain the output provided by the SD-20.
> --
Z-13/8 may not be "designed" for the SD-20, but is the additional 12 amps (or in
my case, 22a ) going to jeopardize the system function, assuming the appropriate
size wire, fuses, etc.?
I just don't see how a larger alternator makes any difference to the functioning
of the system.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288945#288945
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
Hey Stan,
Possibly the reason no answer was given was because M&B sells lots
of different batteries, but one of us who have to expend some effort to
figure out what kind of battery it is.
I did so, just because of all the chatter.
It is not a M&B battery, it is a CSB sealed Lead Acid battery
Does not say gel vs immobilized in the little ad.
Its probably ok but I have no experience with the CSB brand,
so you will be a test pilot! After you use it a year let us know
what you found. Half price off an Odessey is not bad unless there is
a reason for the cheapness.
As for swapping out batteries every year: what a waste of money!
Driven by FUD, as the IBMers used to say: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.
If you learn a bit about batteries, then maybe you can still use
premium quality Pana batteries and only swap them every other year!
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288972#288972
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| Subject: | Daniels positioner question |
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Hash: SHA1
I bought a Daniels AFM8 crimper from eBay, which came with three
positioners. Two were K42s, which I can use. The other one is a K187.
I can't really find any information about its application. It appears
that it's intended for a connector from Continental Connector Company,
but that isn't telling me much.
I'm pretty sure it isn't something I'm going to need, so I'm looking to
sell it--just wanting to describe it as completely as possible.
- --
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
> I find that some batteries do fail the test before I would have normally
> replaced them. As Jim mentioned. I try to use those batteries in a garden
> tractor or similar non critical application.
Me too, Old Bob <g>. (Image of my drill with an external 35AH battery
attached). Seriously, this is a cost-effective substitute for those
expensive replacement NiCad battery packs. I just can't bear to throw
away even a Harbor Freight $20 drill motor and it very useful at times.
The fine print: yes, this is a 12V battery and a 9.6V drill fed with
some 18AWG power cord I had lying around. The drill motor likes it just
fine. The thing should be fused but I consider the entire power cord to
be a "fusible link".
--
Joe
Independence, OR
http://www.mail2600.com/position
http://www.mail2600.com/cgi-bin/webcam.cgi
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I think my original post on Z12/Z13 may have helped start this thread. As I indicated
I have changed to a Z13 with a 20A Aux Alternator.
Attached is my version of the schematic. There are some details missing of course
but this is what the system is built around.
My wiring is almost done but I am open to constructive criticism.
Thanks
David Lamb
RV7A Still wiring.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288993#288993
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/all_elec_schematic_178.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
This thread piqued my curiosity, so I did a little research. The Panasonic &
CSB batteries have similar specs apart from the 17/20 AH rating curve. Their
operating range has a lower limit of -15 C (5 F), and an internal resistance
of 12-13 mOhms. Internal resistance and temperature range will have a large
impact on cold-weather starting. The CSB is limited to a max of 230 A for 5
sec. The Panasonic specs do not provide this information, but I suspect it
is similar to CSB due to the internal resistance.
At the other end of the battery spectrum is the Osyssey 680. It has a -40 C
(-40 F) lower temperature limit, and 7.5 mOhm internal resistance. They
claim a 680 A discharge rate for 5 sec. and 400 A for 30 seconds. The longer
time AH capacity is typical for a 16 AH battery. EnerSys (parent company)
also produces the Genesis product line at the same plant as Odyssey in
Warrensburg, Missouri. The Genesis G12V16EP happens to have the same case
design/dimensions, terminals, and electrical specs as the Odyssey 680, but
at a somewhat lower price. They may not be identical, but it's hard to tell
any difference. Aviation is on the Genesis application list, so this might
be a good value. http://tnrbatteries.com/geg11.html Odyssey and Genesis
batteries also have a two year replacement warranty rather than the typical
one year.
Spec sheets (note that Odyssey & Genesis have every detail):
Panasonic:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-PD1217P.p
df
CSB: http://www.csb-battery.com/upfiles/dow01242375277.pdf
Odyssey: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf
Genesis: http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US_GPL_SG_001_0303.pdf
If you're looking at the Panasonic and/or CSB batteries, there are plenty of
other batteries with similar specs that are even lower cost. Among other
things, I'd pay close attention to the terminal style. Make sure that
vibration won't weaken the terminal over time. Many of these batteries
differ only by the label on top.
If starting current isn't an issue with you, the lower cost batteries may
well be the best value. If you don't want to be stranded with a dead
battery in a cold climate or after a failed hot start, cranking amps will be
a large part of your decision process. YMMV
David Barrett
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:11 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charging
As is normal for this list, the gentleman's question was not answered and he
was instead admonished for using his time-proven techniques (which are not
opposed by the list moderator).
I, too, am interested in an answer to James' question.
Please allow me to rephrase James' question.
Are you familiar with the M&B 20 AH CSB battery?
Have you used it in an airplane?
Is it suitable for use in an airplane?
Would you recommend it?
My technique is to change one of my two batteries each year. It is my
technique and I'm not asking for comment on my technique.
Any responses to the questions above regarding the M&B 20 AH CSB battery?
Stan Sutterfield
I have been using Panasonic 17AH batteries (2) in my all electric airplane
for
a few years. I usually change them out at annual time. Someone
recommended
a 20 AH CSB from m&B battery company. It is the same size and a few dollars
cheaper.
Any comment?
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
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| Subject: | Re: This switch OK? |
> I'm looking at using this switch - will it work in a 14v system?
John,
Yes, it will work. Voltage is not an issue for this switch in your airplane.
Current is the issue. The picture does not specify 250V AC or DC. I will assume
that it is AC. I think it should be safe to use this switch to handle up
to 5 amps at 14VDC. A switch will not immediately self-destruct if operated slightly
above its rating. But its life will be shortened. How much current do
you want to control with this switch and what type of load is it?
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289004#289004
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At 12:33 PM 3/2/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
> > Noah,
> >
> > snip.... Z-13 was not intended
> > as an all out fully redundant Rambo system, nor is it designed to
> > sustain the output provided by the SD-20.
> > --
>
>
>Z-13/8 may not be "designed" for the SD-20, but is the additional 12
>amps (or in my case, 22a ) going to jeopardize the system function,
>assuming the appropriate size wire, fuses, etc.?
>I just don't see how a larger alternator makes any difference to the
>functioning of the system.
And as I said, it will function as advertised. I've
seen V-6's in VW bugs and they too function as
advertised. I'm in no way attempting to talk you
out of doing what ever you wish. I was trying to
convey the idea that while Z-13/20 was my design
prompted by some discussions at the time . . . I
was not proud of it and withdrew it. In my opinion
it argued with design goals for Z-13/8 as a low
cost, light weight, simple excursion into all-electric
aircraft. If you are committed to the notion of running
an SD-20, then I think there are better ways to do it.
But, do as you wish with confidence . . . but please
don't call it Z-13/20. That would suggest the configuration
is something that I have offered as a elegant recipe
for success. I wouldn't put a 4-bbl carburetor on
my Chevy 6-cyl but it no doubt could be made to
function but with little more risk than the stock
carb would offer.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Daniels positioner question |
At 05:23 PM 3/2/2010, you wrote:
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I bought a Daniels AFM8 crimper from eBay, which came with three
>positioners. Two were K42s, which I can use. The other one is a K187.
> I can't really find any information about its application. It appears
>that it's intended for a connector from Continental Connector Company,
>but that isn't telling me much.
>
>I'm pretty sure it isn't something I'm going to need, so I'm looking to
>sell it--just wanting to describe it as completely as possible.
Hmmm . . . Page 15 of . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Daniels/ConnectorToolingGuide.pdf
speaks to the K13-1, K41 and K42 positioners in the 20 and
22AWG d-sub world. But a search of the document says
nothing about the K187.
Bob . . .
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Might a switch be more efficient than a relay for the E bus load,
assuming a ~10
amp load? (I'm not refering to the brown out relay which I see is
necessary).
Certainly more efficient since the switch does not
draw current to keep it closed. But the relay is
called for when it is functioning as a mini-contactor
located adjacent to the battery bus. If you can reach
a switch located there, then you could consider the
subsitution.
What do these little Bosch type cube relays draw?
Thanks, Tim Andres
About 100 mA depending on manufacturer and some
other details. These are not big energy hogs.
Bob . . .
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David,
Regarding your schematic, If you are planning to run a heavily loaded e-bus (yours
is fused for 15 amps), I think you are going to want to use the heavy duty
e-bus switching with a relay (Z-32). I think this has been recommended for anything
over 7 amps.
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289012#289012
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>
>I have repeatedly asked what are the negative
>implications, the failure modes, the performance
>hits when using a Z-13 architecture
>(UNLIMITED ENDURANCE given any single point failure) with a 20A aux alternator.
Actually, it's not unlimited endurance, you're still going
to run out of fuel. You just don't have to come down because
you're out of electrons.
> None have been offered, and this most recent
> response, indicating that Z-13/20 will
> function as advertised seems to tell me that
> there are none (over and above those found with
> Z13/8). Do I understand your position correctly?
Yes
> It this simply a case of personal bias against
> any endurance bus requiring >8A because you
> deem it generally unnecessary and a little more
> costly and a little bit heavier? Just trying to understand your position here.
It's not about the SD-20 vs any other alternator. It's
about substitutions in the recipe for success represented
by Z-13/8.
> Another way of saying this: are the FMEA for
> both the Z-13/8 and Z-13/20 essentially equivalent / identical?
Yes . . .
> If this is the case I am still baffled by the
> continued strong position against Z-13/20 to
> the extent that you have completely disavowed
> it like a red-headed bastard step-child,
> pulling it from your website and other publications.
If you could fit 55W halogen bulbs to your tail
lights, it would certainly ALTER the way the
tail lights function with respect to their
original design goals.
The folks who spent considerable time figuring
out the most cost effective ways to offer functional
tail lights would probably prefer that you did not
credit them with the idea of 'upgrading' to 55W
bulbs. It's just that simple.
I've received drawings in the mail where builders
have claimed to base their creation on one of the
Z-figures . . . or perhaps a stirring together of
several Z-figures. They're hopeful that I'll somehow
bless their creation or offer what ever "corrections"
are deemed necessary. I have to decline to debug
their NEW system as part of my commitment to the
'Connection and this List . . . and suggest that
they commission me at my usual rate to customize
a system to their design goals.
>I still have an uneasy feeling that I must be
>missing something, that there must be more to it
>given your continued and strong position on
>this, but for the life of me, I dont know what it is.
My position is simple. I've offered a number of
suggestions for architectures that include notes
describing design goals, functionality and sizing
of components. One COULD integrate two 100A
alternators into something that looks like Z-13/8
but it's NOT Z-13/8, or Z-13/100 . . . it's
something else.
Just because Bob Nuckolls doesn't want to lend
his "blessing" to such a system doesn't mean
that it's unsafe, or even difficult to do. What
it does mean that THIS particular combination
of hardware doesn't fit a recipe for success
that's been matched to an airframe and a mission
in concert with the spirit and intent of the
AeroElectric Connection and this List.
I'm not the FAA. I have no ability or slightest
desire to twist anyone's arm to do or not do
anything. There are plenty of folks here on the
List who can help sort out errors of sizing,
failure modes or functionality. But as soon as
any one of us offers such service, does this
translate into any sort of "blessing" by those
who offered assistance? By the same token,
if one wishes to stir new ingredients into
what used to look like Z-13/8, then we're
talking about a new system.
I've been thrashing through the design studies
for a two-alternator, two-battery system that
makes sense for an electrically dependent airplane
with failure tolerance loads that far exceed
8A . . . I.e., an SD-20 or even larger alternators
can be considered when necessary to meet anticipated
failure modes. It will be Z-8. It will be something
I'll happily stand up to defend and modify as
necessary to correct flaws of design/logic.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
Thank you David=0AThis was the type info I was hoping for. I have used the
Panasonic for 4 years with no real problem, however I have dual electronic
ignition and I am usually hangered so starts are very easy. However, it
is always good to be informed and with alternatives.=0AJim=0A=0A James Robi
nson=0AGlasair lll N79R=0ASpanish Fork UT U77=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0AFrom: David Barrett <flylists@dbarrett.net>=0ATo: aer
oelectric-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, March 2, 2010 6:39:46 PM=0ASubjec
t: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charging =0A=0A =0AThis thread piqued
my curiosity, so I did a little research. The=0APanasonic & CSB batteries
have similar specs apart from the 17/20 AH rating=0Acurve. Their operating
range has a lower limit of -15 C (5 F), and an internal=0Aresistance of 12-
13 mOhms. Internal resistance and temperature range will have=0Aa large imp
act on cold-weather starting. The CSB is limited to a max of 230 A=0Afor 5
sec. The Panasonic specs do not provide this information, but I suspect=0Ai
t is similar to CSB due to the internal resistance.=0A =0AAt the other end
of the battery spectrum is the Osyssey 680. It=0Ahas a -40 C (-40 F) lower
temperature limit, and 7.5 mOhm internal resistance. They=0Aclaim a 680 A d
ischarge rate for 5 sec. and 400 A for 30 seconds. The longer=0Atime AH cap
acity is typical for a 16 AH battery. EnerSys (parent company) also=0Aprodu
ces the Genesis product line at the same plant as Odyssey in Warrensburg,
=0AMissouri. The Genesis G12V16EP happens to have the same case design/dime
nsions,=0Aterminals, and electrical specs as the Odyssey 680, but at a some
what lower price.=0AThey may not be identical, but it=99s hard to tel
l any difference. Aviation=0Ais on the Genesis application list, so this mi
ght be a good value. http://tnrbatteries.com/geg11.html Odyssey and Genesis
batteries also have a two year replacement warranty rather=0Athan the typi
cal one year.=0A =0ASpec sheets (note that Odyssey & Genesis have every det
ail):=0APanasonic: http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panason
ic_VRLA_LC-PD1217P.pdf=0ACSB: http://www.csb-battery.com/upfiles/dow0124237
5277.pdf=0AOdyssey: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf=0AGe
nesis: http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US_GPL_SG_001_0303.pdf
=0A =0AIf you=99re looking at the Panasonic and/or CSB batteries,=0At
here are plenty of other batteries with similar specs that are even lower
=0Acost. Among other things, I=99d pay close attention to the termina
l style.=0AMake sure that vibration won=99t weaken the terminal over
time. Many of=0Athese batteries differ only by the label on top. =0A =0AIf
starting current isn=99t an issue with you, the lower=0Acost batterie
s may well be the best value. If you don=99t want to be=0Astranded w
ith a dead battery in a cold climate or after a failed hot start,=0Acrankin
g amps will be a large part of your decision process. YMMV=0A =0ADavid Barr
ett=0A =0A =0A =0AFrom:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mail
to:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.
com=0ASent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:11 AM=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matron
ics.com=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charging =0A =0AAs is nor
mal for this list, the gentleman's question was not=0Aanswered and he was i
nstead admonished for using his time-proven techniques=0A(which are not opp
osed by the list moderator).=0AI, too, am interested in an answer to James'
question.=0APlease allow me to rephrase James' question.=0AAre you familia
r with the M&B 20 AH CSB battery?=0AHave you used it in an airplane?=0AIs i
t suitable for use in an airplane?=0AWould you recommend it?=0AMy technique
is to change one of my two batteries each year. =0AIt is my technique and
I'm not asking for comment on my technique.=0AAny responses to the question
s above regarding the M&B 20 AH=0ACSB battery?=0AStan Sutterfield=0A =0A>
=0A>I have been using Panasonic 17AH batteries (2) in my all electric=0A>ai
rplane for=0A>>a few years. I usually change them out at annual time. =0A
>Someone recommended=0A>>a 20 AH CSB from m&B battery company. It is the s
ame size and a few=0A>dollars cheaper.=0A>>Any comment?=0A>>Jim=0A>=0A>>Jam
===============
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
>As for swapping out batteries every year: what a waste of money!
>Driven by FUD, as the IBMers used to say: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.
>If you learn a bit about batteries, then maybe you can still use
>premium quality Pana batteries and only swap them every other year!
Those who choose to swap out every year should
be doing so precisely because it is NOT a waste of
$time$.
Every new development program I participate in
gets carefully studied to deduce cost-of-ownership.
When it comes to battery maintenance, you
have to decide what YOUR $time$ is worth to do
the extra functions required to guarantee battery
performance. If you're retired and have nothing
better to do than go through the cap-check exercise
periodically, then perhaps a premium battery and
attendant maintenance costs are comfortable to
contemplate.
On the other hand, if you buy the least expensive
battery you can find and simply swap them out
with some logic . . . like new main battery every
year and move main battery to the aux battery slot.
Now for the cost of a new battery you've saved the
$time$ and test equipment to do a cap check and your
confidence level in battery performance is quite
high.
This isn't about fear, uncertainty and doubt.
It's about having no doubts whatsoever based
on an activity that satisfies design goals
and makes economic sense. It doesn't apply to
everyone. For the guy who flies day-vfr to
go rubber-necking, shucks . . . he can run
a battery 'til it croaks. Cost of ownership
is very low. But if you've installed an e-bus
because it offers some capabilities for extended
alternator-out operations, there's a whole
new set of variables and solutions to consider
. . . which may or may not included a new
battery every year.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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