Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall (DaveG601XL)
2. 07:04 AM - Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall (Corey Crawford)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: Failure modes with Z14 (Jeff Page)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall (jaybannist@cs.com)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall ()
6. 08:02 AM - Design Goals (Jeff Page)
7. 02:02 PM - Re: Design Goals (Peter Pengilly)
8. 02:10 PM - MP plumbing (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
9. 02:56 PM - Re: MP plumbing (David E. Nelson)
10. 02:58 PM - Re: Failure modes with Z14 (user9253)
11. 07:50 PM - Re: Solid State Contactors -- SuperSwitch? (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
12. 07:50 PM - Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall (Allen Fulmer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall |
I have a friend who is building a metal airplane where the battery will be mounted
in the tail with a big 2GA positive wire going through the firewall. I did
not run into this on my airplane so I am asking what is the best way to lead
this wire through the firewall. Do you run a continuous wire with a grand-daddy
grommet or use a bolted stud on either side? We can figure the fire protection
part out seperately after we find out which way is best for routing the
electrical path.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289895#289895
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall |
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are asking about, but this is the
product I'm using for my firewall power pass-through.
Feed-through Terminal<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/p
roducte/10001/-1/10001/144078/377%20710%201635/0/High%20Amp%20Distribution/
Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201635&Ne=0&Ntt
=High%20Amp%20Distribution&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDi
splayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=11
9#>
--
Corey Crawford
corey.crawford@gmail.com
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:06 AM, DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
wrote:
david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>
> I have a friend who is building a metal airplane where the battery will b
e
mounted in the tail with a big 2GA positive wire going through the firewall
.
I did not run into this on my airplane so I am asking what is the best way
to lead this wire through the firewall. Do you run a continuous wire with
a
grand-daddy grommet or use a bolted stud on either side? We can figure the
fire protection part out seperately after we find out which way is best for
routing the electrical path.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL/Jabiru 3300
> First flight 7/24/08
> 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289895#289895
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Failure modes with Z14 |
Joe,
Thanks for taking the time to look at my diagram. It is comforting to
know that someone else doesn't see any obvious goofs.
I have finished the diagram of the low voltage monitor. Its link is
now available at the same page:
http://www.qenesis.com/tundra/Electrical
Note that I have drawn the diagram, but not yet breadboarded it, so it
may not function as intended.
I would be particularly interested in any changes that would make the
design better handle the DO-160 nasties.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> I looked over your schematic at
> http://www.qenesis.com/tundra/Electrical/Tundra_Power_Wiring.pdf and
> it looks very good. It would be interesting to see the internal
> schematic for the low voltage module and the purpose of the wires
> connected to it from switches. I am not saying that anything is
> wrong, only that I do not know what is inside of that box and how it
> works.
> Good job.
> Joe
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall |
Dave,
I used a Moroso thru panel battery connector, P/N 74145. I think I got it
from Summit Racing on line.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 8:06 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall
e.com>
I have a friend who is building a metal airplane where the battery will be
mounted in the tail with a big 2GA positive wire going through the firewal
l. I
did not run into this on my airplane so I am asking what is the best way
to lead
this wire through the firewall. Do you run a continuous wire with a grand
-daddy
grommet or use a bolted stud on either side? We can figure the fire prote
ction
part out seperately after we find out which way is best for routing the
electrical path.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289895#289895
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall |
David,
I can tell you there is more than one way to skin a cat, but if you look
at one of the gazillion Piper Cherokees out there, the cable runs from
under the back seat along the left panel through the generally dry
rotted grand-daddy grommet to the contactor mounted on the firewall.
Size does matter but for 2 or 4 GA that won't make a difference. Good
enough for Piper...
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DaveG601XL
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:06 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall
<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
I have a friend who is building a metal airplane where the battery will
be mounted in the tail with a big 2GA positive wire going through the
firewall. I did not run into this on my airplane so I am asking what is
the best way to lead this wire through the firewall. Do you run a
continuous wire with a grand-daddy grommet or use a bolted stud on
either side? We can figure the fire protection part out seperately
after we find out which way is best for routing the electrical path.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289895#289895
Message 6
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There is a lot of good discussion on this list about improving our
designs based on our goals.
Some of these goals are based on our personal flight profiles, but
some speak to best practices. It is the best practices I am discussing
here.
Some of the best practices have been established for us by the FAA,
and others we have worked out by "ourselves" - Thanks Bob !
We talk about these best practices as if we all know what all of them
are, but I suspect that is not true, since they are not collected in a
single place. I know it is not for me.
I think what might be very helpful, is a checklist of design
goals/best practices. This is something we could use after completing
our designs to ensure that we have not overlooked something important
and that we are aware of everything before we start pulling wires
through the wings.
I will start it off:
DESIGN GOAL/ BEST PRACTICE CHECKLIST
- Unfused, high current wires - minimize length to 6" or less
- Consider voltage drop as well as current capability when sizing wires
- Fuses or circuit breakers are intended to protect wire, not devices
- Avoid bringing high current wires to the instrument panel using relays
- Use a relay rather than a switch for currents above 7A
- Avoid single points of failure when possible
Use two single-pole switches in place of a single switch for a critical
item, such as ignition
- Consider ground paths to avoid ground loops
- Use higher capability components than needed, when robust packaging is
advantageous
- Make sure you can shut it off if it is misbehaving
- Consider the effect of failure of any single electrical device
- Simpler is more reliable, easier to build, troubleshoot and maintain
- More expensive items still fail - less expensive items may be quite suitable
- Plan alternatives, so devices are not critical to safe flight
Please add to this list !
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Design Goals |
Jeff,
That's an great idea, and an excellent start. My suggestion would be to
try to order the goals into logical grouping, for example overall system
goals (Make sure you can shut it off if it is misbehaving), principles
(Fuses or circuit breakers are intended to protect wire, not devices),
and wiring goals (Unfused, high current wires - minimize length to 6" or
less )
I would re-order your list like this - please feel free to change the
names, changes words, add or subtract
Peter
System Goals
- Any single failure should not take out any flight critical service
(was, Avoid single points of failure when possible)
- Make sure you can shut it off if it is misbehaving
- Simpler is more reliable, easier to build, troubleshoot and maintain
(Sydney Camm <http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/sidney_camm.htm> -
"Simplicate and add lightness")
- Plan alternatives, so devices are not critical to safe flight
- Following the failure of any single function or device the pilot
should be able to safely continue flying with a maximum of ?2? switch
selections
Principles
- Fuses or circuit breakers are intended to protect wire, not devices
- Avoid bringing high current wires to the instrument panel using relays
- Use a relay rather than a switch for currents above 7A
- Use two single-pole switches in place of a single switch for a
critical item, such as ignition
- Use higher capability components than needed, when robust packaging is
advantageous
- Consider the effect of failure of any single electrical device
- More expensive items still fail - less expensive items may be quite
suitable
Wiring Goals
- Unfused, high current wires - minimize length to 6" or less
- Consider voltage drop as well as current capability when sizing wires
- Consider ground paths to avoid ground loops
Jeff Page wrote:
>
> There is a lot of good discussion on this list about improving our
> designs based on our goals.
>
> Some of these goals are based on our personal flight profiles, but
> some speak to best practices. It is the best practices I am discussing
> here.
>
> Some of the best practices have been established for us by the FAA,
> and others we have worked out by "ourselves" - Thanks Bob !
>
> We talk about these best practices as if we all know what all of them
> are, but I suspect that is not true, since they are not collected in a
> single place. I know it is not for me.
>
> I think what might be very helpful, is a checklist of design
> goals/best practices. This is something we could use after completing
> our designs to ensure that we have not overlooked something important
> and that we are aware of everything before we start pulling wires
> through the wings.
>
> I will start it off:
>
> DESIGN GOAL/ BEST PRACTICE CHECKLIST
> - Unfused, high current wires - minimize length to 6" or less
> - Consider voltage drop as well as current capability when sizing wires
> - Fuses or circuit breakers are intended to protect wire, not devices
> - Avoid bringing high current wires to the instrument panel using relays
> - Use a relay rather than a switch for currents above 7A
> - Avoid single points of failure when possible
> Use two single-pole switches in place of a single switch for a critical
> item, such as ignition
> - Consider ground paths to avoid ground loops
> - Use higher capability components than needed, when robust packaging is
> advantageous
> - Make sure you can shut it off if it is misbehaving
> - Consider the effect of failure of any single electrical device
> - Simpler is more reliable, easier to build, troubleshoot and maintain
> - More expensive items still fail - less expensive items may be quite
> suitable
> - Plan alternatives, so devices are not critical to safe flight
>
> Please add to this list !
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
Message 8
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I guess a little off topic,I have a question about plumbing my
manifold pressure gauge. An avionics shop mentioned to mea while
back (now out of business)it is a good idea to have ability to drain
manifold pressure line once a year. They said even with a normal aspirated
engine, crud makes its way into gauge and clogs up the works. He said they
install near the gauge an easy way to create a leak once a year and let
crud get sucked through engine. I don't know if they use a needle valve,
some sort of valve, a capped flair or?? i have a Rotax 914 that has
ability to not only suck, but pressurize as well, being a turbo oil can
certainly be in themix as well. I have a UMA dual diaphragm
2+1/4" gauge, UMA said they recommend ability to purge line once a
year but offer no guidance as far as what sort of hardware to use to
create leak. any ideas or suggestions?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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Hi Ron,
Why not place a clear, in-line "fuel-filter" as found at motorcycle/small engine
shops?
Just an idea,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
> I guess a little off topic, I have a question about plumbing my manifold pressure
gauge. An avionics shop mentioned to me a while back (now out of business)
it is a good idea to have ability to
> drain manifold pressure line once a year. They said even with a normal aspirated
engine, crud makes its way into gauge and clogs up the works. He said they
install near the gauge an easy way to
> create a leak once a year and let crud get sucked through engine. I don't know
if they use a needle valve, some sort of valve, a capped flair or?? i have a
Rotax 914 that has ability to not
> only suck, but pressurize as well, being a turbo oil can certainly be in the
mix as well. I have a UMA dual diaphragm 2+1/4" gauge, UMA said they recommend
ability to purge line once a year but
> offer no guidance as far as what sort of hardware to use to create leak. any
ideas or suggestions?
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Failure modes with Z14 |
Jeff,
If wire 2223 or its connections fail, power will be lost to the essential bus.
Wire 2222 should be connected directly to the E-Bus.
Now I see what those 4 wires are for that connect between the low voltage module
and grounded switches. Any one of the switches can enable the low voltage
module. The diodes isolate the 4 switches from each other. Did you design
the low voltage warning module yourself? Are you an electrical engineer? Let
us know how it works.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289958#289958
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Solid State Contactors -- SuperSwitch? |
Thank you everyone for the feedback.
Bob, I talked with Lamar Technologies' Jim Errington, their Sales &
Marketing Manager. I let him know that you are interested in examining and
testing their solid state contactor relays. He's also very interested in
providing you some of their contactors for testing and to get familiar with
them. I gave him the phone number on the AeroElectric home page
(620-886-3403) for you so you may have already heard from him. If you have
not, Jim's contact info is jime@lamartech.com, phone: 360-651-6666.
Their technical support guy, Alan Saldecki, provided a couple pdf files with
a bit more information on their SuperSwitches - I've attached only one of
them to keep this file size small. One thing that's different in their spec
file vs. the Aircraft Spruce page is that it's rated for 80 A continuous
rather than 100A and that various with ambient temperature.
They have a bunch of the SuperSwitches flying in a Cessna Corvalis for
certification testing, or something like that. They also report they have a
number of experimentals flying with them without problems.
If you are still interested in looking into them, I'll wait to see what you
think when you open one up and test it before deciding to use them in our
power system. Note that with my 28V, high current demand system (electric
A/C, live in Houston) I'm already stuck with contactor relays in their price
range - so, cost isn't a factor so much as reliability and weight.
Thanks,
Valin Thorn
Lancair Legacy project
Houston, TX USA
From: Valin & Allyson Thorn [mailto:thorn@starflight.aero]
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:05 PM
Subject: Solid State Contactors -- SuperSwitch?
Hello,
Has anyone had experience with the solid state contactors from Lamar
Technologies they call a SuperSwitch? See this Aircraft Spruce link for
info:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/superSwitch.php
I know they're expensive - but, we're already in that category of contactor
with the need for 28V high continuous current contactors (100 A alternator,
all electric A/C). We already have very nice Blue Sea high capacity
contactors that are hermetically sealed (~$150 each). They weigh about a
pound each, though, and the significant weight savings with these solid
state contactors looks good.
I'd appreciate comments and advice.
Thanks,
Valin Thorn
Legacy
Houston, TX USA
cid:image001.jpg@01CAB316.6FD47F10
Message 12
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| Subject: | Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall |
I used stud pass through I purchased from West Marine online.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Finish wiring
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