---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/18/10: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:15 AM - Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Radioflyer) 2. 07:32 AM - Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 08:06 AM - Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Radioflyer) 4. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:35 AM - Lancair battery fire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 10:25 AM - Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Radioflyer) 7. 11:03 AM - Re: Question about plumbing air, not electrons (Jim Berry) 8. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 07:05 PM - Drilling holes for toggle switches? (donjohnston) 10. 09:11 PM - Re: Drilling holes for toggle switches? () 11. 10:10 PM - Re: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall (Corey Crawford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: "Radioflyer" After several postings here about how this is the best no-nonsense maintainer for Pb-acid chemistry I got myself one from Walmart. Model SEM 1562A. I put it on an Odyssey PC625 and checked the voltages. The unit was charging at 15.6V. After 3 hrs, the float charge kicked in, hovering around 14.6 volts. Later I believe I found a review on Amazon from somebody who measured about the same voltages. What I wanted was 14.6 charge/13.2 float since that was what was reported in this forum as correct for the chemistry and for this unit. I think the original units came with a 12/6V switch. This unit (same model number) has a 12/6V automatic function with no switch. It seems the switch is not the only thing that has changed. I'm returning the unit and now will search for something else. Any suggestions? --Jose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290755#290755 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:37 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! At 08:11 AM 3/18/2010, you wrote: > >After several postings here about how this is the best no-nonsense >maintainer for Pb-acid chemistry I got myself one from Walmart. >Model SEM 1562A. I put it on an Odyssey PC625 and checked the >voltages. The unit was charging at 15.6V. After 3 hrs, the float >charge kicked in, hovering around 14.6 volts. Later I believe I >found a review on Amazon from somebody who measured about the same voltages. > >What I wanted was 14.6 charge/13.2 float since that was what was >reported in this forum as correct for the chemistry and for this >unit. I think the original units came with a 12/6V switch. This unit >(same model number) has a 12/6V automatic function with no switch. >It seems the switch is not the only thing that has changed. > >I'm returning the unit and now will search for something else. Any >suggestions? Are you sure the "float" voltage you were measuring wasn't being supported by the battery as opposed to the Schumacher maintainer? I have several of the 1562 and they perform as expected. After a battery is freshly charged, it may take some time for its terminal voltage to drop down to maintenance levels with NO charger attached. Repeat the experiment but as soon as the charger shuts down (drops below the 15.6 top-off), disconnect the charger and watch the battery's open circuit terminal voltage. It might take several hours for the battery to drop down to the level at which the maintainer begins to support it. Schumacher has been in this business a very long time. It seems unlikely that they've produced a device that fails to perform by design. Of course a defective device is anohter matter. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:07 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: "Radioflyer" Well, what I did was to measure the voltages at the battery terminal with the Schumacher powered on and attached. With the yellow light on, the voltage was 15.6 or thereabouts. When the green light came on, the voltage was very slowly oscillating from 14.6 to just over 15. The battery has sat overnight, unattached to anything and it is now at 12.86V. Did I measure incorrectly? Is not 14.6 charge/13.2 float ideal and what I should expect from a maintainer? --Jose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290758#290758 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! At 09:01 AM 3/18/2010, you wrote: > >Well, what I did was to measure the voltages at the battery terminal >with the Schumacher powered on and attached. With the yellow light >on, the voltage was 15.6 or thereabouts. When the green light came >on, the voltage was very slowly oscillating from 14.6 to just over >15. The battery has sat overnight, unattached to anything and it is >now at 12.86V. > >Did I measure incorrectly? Is not 14.6 charge/13.2 float ideal and >what I should expect from a maintainer? Sounds like you did good. I'd like to have that maintainer to evaluate. I've got several 1562's and they don't behave that way. I'd like to know if Schumacher has changed the design or that one is bad. As far as a replacement, I also have several Battery Tender Juniors that have been keeping my lab batteries alive and well for years. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr/Battery_Tender-Junior.jpeg http://tinyurl.com/yjhhgra If you'll send me your 1562, I'll ship it back when I'm done with it and pay postage both ways. See front page of website for shipping address. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lancair battery fire A few weeks ago there was some discussion on the List about a Lancair battery fire. A B&C SB-1 regulator was found to be water damaged. The pilot's narrative told us that smoke started after he turned the aux alternator on to "charge the aux battery". I've become privy to data points concerning this accident. The SB-1 was indeed water damaged in a way that might indeed drive the aux alternator to an OV condition. There was no evidence of a pre-flight test of the aux alternator functionality. The only wiring diagram offered as a reference for assembly of the airplane was a B&C drawing not unlike our figure Z-12. It is unclear how the aux battery was wired into the system. The battery fire point of origin was not electrical. The battery still had liquid in it (Gill 240) and had no internal evidence of fire or overt damage. The battery did out-gas. Point of origin for the fire was probably spontaneous combustion due to presence of non-standard materials in the battery box. The full report and more details will come out later this summer. But it's apparent that the designer, installer and operator of this electrical system did not have a clear understanding of the recipes for success that would have prevented this particular incident from happening. In the mean time, B&C regulator products are getting a sticker suggesting recommended installation orientation so that drip water won't collect inside. While the failed regulator probably participated in the event. Like most accidents, it was a combination of several errors of materials selection, installation technique, and operating procedures which stacked up to severely damage the airplane and put the passengers at much risk. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: "Radioflyer" I spoke to Alex at Schumacher technical support. He said this model is no longer available with the manual 12/6 volt switch. The design has changed. The unit is now microprocessor controlled and now only comes with the automatic 12/6V feature. He said the voltages for the new version are set somewhat higher than the older version because the microprocessor can monitor the levels better. He also said that the float voltages I reported are normal, initially due to a high recent charge on the battery, but that it will eventually settle to not more than 13.4V. I think this is what you were also saying. So, I put the battery back on the charger. The voltage started at 14.6V and within 5 minutes went up to 15.2V. An hour later it was at 15.2V and still charging, yellow light on. I will wait until a few hours after float to see what the float level is then. If results seem suspicious after this test. I may take you up on your offer, thanks. --Jose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290770#290770 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about plumbing air, not electrons From: "Jim Berry" Ron, If your nylon fittings are Nylo-Seal brand, I recently asked this question of their tech support and they recommend nothing on the threads. I did my pitot and static lines with Nylo-Seal fittings throughout and both passed the manometer test without leaks. Jim Berry RV10 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290772#290772 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! > >So, I put the battery back on the charger. The voltage started at >14.6V and within 5 minutes went up to 15.2V. An hour later it was at >15.2V and still charging, yellow light on. I will wait until a few >hours after float to see what the float level is then. > >If results seem suspicious after this test. I may take you up on >your offer, thanks. Give it even a day or so. It should settle down to 13.5 or less. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:23 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Drilling holes for toggle switches? From: "donjohnston" When drilling holes for standard style toggle switches, what is the common method for creating a hole with the keyway? Or do you just use a round hole and not worry about the keyway? -Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290804#290804 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:15 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Drilling holes for toggle switches? I made a template or maybe someone sells them. you can also make one for circuit breakers as mine had tangs too. good luck. Ron Burnett RV-6A coming along slowly -- ---- donjohnston wrote: ============ When drilling holes for standard style toggle switches, what is the common method for creating a hole with the keyway? Or do you just use a round hole and not worry about the keyway? -Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290804#290804 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:20 PM PST US From: Corey Crawford Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Running Big Battery Wire Through Firewall Because I was curious, I emailed Blue Sea Systems to get information on the flammability properties of their Bulkhead Electrical Pass-through unit (found here: http://bluesea.com/products/2201). For those also curious, thi s is the information I received back: *PN: 2201 is molded in Zytel FR50 NC010, which has a UL94 V0 flammability rating. I'm pretty certain the Zytel FR50 is an SAE approved under the hood material though. Almost all electrical connector housings (Molex, FCi, Deutsch, etc.) are molded in glass reinforced Nylon 6 6. If you didn=92t already know, UL94 is the Underwriters Laboratory test standard for plastics flammability. V0 is the best you can do. There are constraints or design guidelines for different thicknesses of materials though. A 1/16" thick section of a material will likely burn more readily than one 1/8" thick, and each material tested comes with a rating at a thickness, but they're not all the same. In our product's case, design thickness has been handily exceeded. Another gauge for plastics materials underhood is elevated temp properties. The heat deflection temperature(HDT) is actually quite high for Nylon 6 6 - especially when glass filled as ours is. One excellent feature of a VO thermoplastics materials is that it can still be tough. Phenolics (think Bakelite) have the best high temperature performance, but can be very brittle. Having written all of that, I must confess PN: 2201 predates my tenure here at Blue Sea. I personally have not flame tested it, though I understand the guy who's chair I took was fond of such activities. I can say from years of experience that PN: 2201 has some good features to help keep it from meltin g or burning besides the plastics material. For one thing there is a large (relative to molded component) brass heat sink in the thru-conductor that i s insert molded within. Provided you don=92t plan on using it for welding for extended periods, and that you size wires appropriate for your application(s), there are probably very few if any better products on the market.* Interesting stuff. I come from computer software, so all this materials science is something new to learn. -- Corey Crawford corey.crawford@gmail.com On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 11:48 AM, wrote: > The plastic from which they're made, (at least most of them) melts, then > burns leaving you with flames on the "wrong" side of the firewall and an > open hole admitting more smoke and flames. Also you now have a > bare, uninsulated, live heavy wire, (stud) arcing like crazy against the > firewall sheetmetal. Doesn't seem like a "safe" penetration to me. The > intumescent caulk idea swells up with heat keeping the hole sealed and > insulating the interior from flames and smoke and preventing the wires, e ven > if they themselves are compromised, from shorting to the firewall. > > Bob McC > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.