---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/22/10: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (David LLoyd) 3. 09:28 AM - (malong@aol.com) 4. 11:03 AM - Re: (Franz) 5. 11:24 AM - Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Radioflyer) 6. 11:47 AM - Re: (Matt Prather) 7. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 12:23 PM - Re: (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 12:53 PM - Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Radioflyer) 11. 01:54 PM - Wire size / fuse size question (tomcostanza) 12. 02:23 PM - Re: Wire size / fuse size question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Kevin Boddicker) 14. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Kevin Boddicker) 16. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! (Tony Babb) 17. 06:24 PM - Symbols Library (Bill Bradburry) 18. 09:40 PM - Looking for a used PC680 battery (Jared Yates) 19. 11:14 PM - Re: Symbols Library (mmayfield) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:58 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! At 09:09 PM 3/21/2010, you wrote: > >Ok, Bob, you suggested that I monitor the battery over a few days. >Here is the summary of the Schumacher SEM-1562A voltages across my >AGM battery(Odyssey PC625). (The battery had been already (night >prior) charged/maintain by the same device.) > >Day 1 - The unit started at 14.6V (yellow light on) and quickly >ramped up to 15.2V. About 1.5hr later, the float commenced (green >light on). The Voltages ranged (sinusoidally?) from 13.6 to 15.3V >over about a 20 second period. > >Day 2 - (24hrs later) The unit was still ranging thru 13.6 to 15.2V. > >Day 3 - The unit ranged from 13.7 to 15.8V, but there was more >loiter time nearer the 13.7V end. 12 hrs later in the day (or maybe >less) the unit had stabilized at 13.7V > >Day 4 - Values continue to be stable at 13.7V with no indication of >any further change. I then disconnected the Schumacher and >terminated measurements. > >The Schumacher started with a brief topping off voltage of 15.2V, >continued with a long float of 13.6 to 15.2V averaging to about >14.4V, and finally settled on a constant 13.7V. The volatges seems >high to me. The manual states max charge of 14.6V, maintainance >13.3V, but I don't know if these are "averaged" values. So, is this >optimal or reasonable behavior for maintaining my battery? Clearly, >this new version of the SEM-1562A is operating quite differently >from the original version. Thank you for taking the time to accomplish this study! My data acquisition system is still packed up in moving boxes but as soon as I can get some more pressing matters addressed, I'll go pick up another 1562 and see what I find. Clearly, the item you have behaves much like some very old versions of electronically controlled charger- maintainers. In fact, I think I'd like to buy the one you have in hand and take it apart to compare with others I have and one that I'll buy. Let's make a deal. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:15 AM PST US From: "David LLoyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! Wondering, if these products are coming out of China or some other mass producing factory where the final calibration "station" to set the peak charge and float voltages pots is poorly set-up or non-existent. I have used the BatteryMinder model 12117; the small unit. I like it. When I first operated it and monitored the various voltages as Jose did, I noted also the peak and float voltages were too high. Both levels were controlled by separate pots within the unit. I called BatteryMinder and spoke to someone with product knowledge, related my finding, asked for verification of my views on what the levels should be and he answered, yes, both settings were too high and I was correct with my settings. He asked that I send it in for recalibration and I told him the unit was apart and I had located the control pots for each voltage level and would like to make the adjustments myself. He verified that was Ok and to check back if I could not bring the charging levels down to normal. The mini pots had enough range. After several days of monitoring the maintainers activity on a standard Concord type AC battery, it was verified that it was doing what it was designed to do. Conclusion.... many products of good designs like this one are leaving the factories with thinly disguised Q/C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Radioflyer" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! > > > Ok, Bob, you suggested that I monitor the battery over a few days. Here is > the summary of the Schumacher SEM-1562A voltages across my AGM > battery(Odyssey PC625). (The battery had been already (night prior) > charged/maintain by the same device.) > > Day 1 - The unit started at 14.6V (yellow light on) and quickly ramped up > to 15.2V. About 1.5hr later, the float commenced (green light on). The > Voltages ranged (sinusoidally?) from 13.6 to 15.3V over about a 20 second > period. > > Day 2 - (24hrs later) The unit was still ranging thru 13.6 to 15.2V. > > Day 3 - The unit ranged from 13.7 to 15.8V, but there was more loiter time > nearer the 13.7V end. 12 hrs later in the day (or maybe less) the unit had > stabilized at 13.7V > > Day 4 - Values continue to be stable at 13.7V with no indication of any > further change. I then disconnected the Schumacher and terminated > measurements. > > The Schumacher started with a brief topping off voltage of 15.2V, > continued with a long float of 13.6 to 15.2V averaging to about 14.4V, and > finally settled on a constant 13.7V. The volatges seems high to me. The > manual states max charge of 14.6V, maintainance 13.3V, but I don't know if > these are "averaged" values. So, is this optimal or reasonable behavior > for maintaining my battery? Clearly, this new version of the SEM-1562A is > operating quite differently from the original version. > > --Jose > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291207#291207 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:21 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: From: malong@aol.com http://sites.google.com/site/xnnatvbp/gjoygvlu ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:46 AM PST US From: "Franz" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hi all, I would like to ask your comments regarding a reoccurring problem that I am having in my RV7. I have wired it according to Z11 with the additional projection for internally regulated ND alternator as suggested by the connection. I have had now three alternator failures in short order, each time I have taken out the alternator and had it checked out at the shop, twice they found a faulty diode and the third time the alternator checked out ok, no fault found. I have exchanged the alternator contactor and have checked all wires and fuses, they all check out ok. I am wondering how I could check the system to see if I can find any problems with it. Any suggestions are appreciated Franz RV7A 300h ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:25 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: "Radioflyer" And I think the original version of the Schumacher SEM-1562A had adjustment trimpots also. However, this new version of the same model is microprocessor controlled and has no trimpots. The voltages must be controlled by firmware. --Jose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291286#291286 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: From: "Matt Prather" It's possible that rebuilder is putting crappy parts in the alternator, and you got unlucky with which unit they gave you. Where are you buying the alternators? On this third alternator, did the system function okay once you returned the unit to the airplane? What is the indication of the failure? Do you have a low-voltage warning light, or a voltmeter? There are usually mutliple diodes in alternators. Often, only one of the diodes fail, and this causes reduced output current, possibly only evident when the system is seeing heavy loads - if the diode fails open, which is common. Is the mount and airflow (cowl) for this alternator essentially the same as for other RV's? I wonder if it's getting adequate cooling? It would be relatively cheap and easy to rig up some instrumentation so that you could monitor the temperatures. I see that you have 300 hours on the plane. How long ago did you start having problems? Was anything else changed on the airplane? Matt- > > > Hi all, > I would like to ask your comments regarding a reoccurring problem that I > am > having in my RV7. I have wired it according to Z11 with the additional > projection for internally regulated ND alternator as suggested by the > connection. I have had now three alternator failures in short order, each > time I have taken out the alternator and had it checked out at the shop, > twice they found a faulty diode and the third time the alternator checked > out ok, no fault found. I have exchanged the alternator contactor and have > checked all wires and fuses, they all check out ok. > I am wondering how I could check the system to see if I can find any > problems with it. Any suggestions are appreciated > > Franz > RV7A > 300h > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! At 01:22 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: > >And I think the original version of the Schumacher SEM-1562A had >adjustment trimpots also. However, this new version of the same >model is microprocessor controlled and has no trimpots. The voltages >must be controlled by firmware. Have you had it open? Certainly if I were designing one, it would indeed have a micro-controller with the calibration established by a couple precision resistors and the processor's 10-bit a/d. Given that its so very easy to do, I'm mystified as to why anyone would not do it. But the voltages and behaviors you cited are waaayyy out of whack. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:42 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! At 11:21 AM 3/22/2010, you wrote: Wondering, if these products are coming out of China or some other mass producing factory where the final calibration "station" to set the peak charge and float voltages pots is poorly set-up or non-existent. I have used the BatteryMinder model 12117; the small unit. I like it. Conclusion.... many products of good designs like this one are leaving the factories with thinly disguised Q/C Fooey. It's entirely possible. I guess I'll have to start checking any new ones I buy. It wouldn't take much to fabricate a battery maintainer module to be powered by any orphaned wall-wart. Most of the 12v unregulated devices put out enough voltage at light loads to top-off an svla battery. A simple circuit to drop from a 14.8 top-off to 13.2 maintenance when top-off current drops under 100 ma wouldn't be very hard to do . . . even as an discrete analog circuit. Don't need any more projects right now. I'm still building desks and cabinets! Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: At 01:00 PM 5/22/2010, you wrote: > >Hi all, >I would like to ask your comments regarding a reoccurring problem that I am >having in my RV7. I have wired it according to Z11 with the additional >projection for internally regulated ND alternator as suggested by the >connection. I have had now three alternator failures in short order, each >time I have taken out the alternator and had it checked out at the shop, >twice they found a faulty diode and the third time the alternator checked >out ok, no fault found. I have exchanged the alternator contactor and have >checked all wires and fuses, they all check out ok. >I am wondering how I could check the system to see if I can find any >problems with it. Any suggestions are appreciated Start by by-passing the OV protection system. Just move the alternator b-lead wire to the other side of the disconnect contactor so that the b-lead is always hooked to the system. If you're still in possession of the third, no-fault found device, run it in that configuration for the time being and see if things settle down. How did you first become aware of the failure? How did the failure manifest? Low voltage, over voltage? Did you turn the alternator OFF while the engine was running and the alternator was under load? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:39 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: "Radioflyer" Yes, I did open the unit immediately after realizing the voltages were higher than expected. Since no trimpots, I closed it up to return to the store for a refund. Then based on our discussions here, I decided to test it a little longer. I probably should return it but if you (Bob N.) are interested, I could certainly send it to you for further testing. Bob N., I'll try contacting you off list to send you the unit. --Jose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291309#291309 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:40 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire size / fuse size question From: "tomcostanza" Here's my situation. I have 2 small 75W bulbs in each wing (one landing, one taxi, in each wing). 4 bulbs total. They draw 6.5A each. I used one 16ga wire to each bulb thinking that would be more than enough for 6.5A, but didn't think about the fuse. Here's my plan. Connect one bulb from each wing to the same 15A fuse. So I'd be protecting 16ga wire with a 15A fuse, but each wire would only be sourcing 6.5A Here's my logic. I know 16ga wire should be fused at 12.5A. But it's not like I'd ever be sourcing 20A. The only failure mode would be a short, which would blow the fuse regardless of what size wire I'm using. Does anyone see a flaw here? Thanks. -------- Clear Skies, Tom Costanza Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291319#291319 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:15 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire size / fuse size question At 03:52 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: > > >Here's my situation. I have 2 small 75W bulbs in each wing (one >landing, one taxi, in each wing). 4 bulbs total. They draw 6.5A >each. I used one 16ga wire to each bulb thinking that would be more >than enough for 6.5A, but didn't think about the fuse. > >Here's my plan. Connect one bulb from each wing to the same 15A >fuse. So I'd be protecting 16ga wire with a 15A fuse, but each wire >would only be sourcing 6.5A > >Here's my logic. I know 16ga wire should be fused at 12.5A. But >it's not like I'd ever be sourcing 20A. The only failure mode would >be a short, which would blow the fuse regardless of what size wire I'm using. > >Does anyone see a flaw here? That works. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: Kevin Boddicker Bob, I too have a new version of the Schumacher. I have not tried the voltage checks, but did notice that it took substantially longer for the new unit to top off my PC 680. Compared to the older unit. The old unit would sometimes go into float in a minute or less. The new unit was charging for half an hour or longer. I did close the alternate buss feed to check volts on the panel. If I remember correctly the panel voltmeter was well in excess of 14 nearing 15 volts. That reading is less that accurate as the graduations on my voltmeter are 9,12,15 etc. Bottom line is that I too felt there was quite a change from the old model to the new one. Kevin Boddicker TriQ 200 N7868B 160.4 hrs Luana, IA. On Mar 22, 2010, at 1:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 01:22 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: >> >> And I think the original version of the Schumacher SEM-1562A had adjustment trimpots also. However, this new version of the same model is microprocessor controlled and has no trimpots. The voltages must be controlled by firmware. > > Have you had it open? Certainly if I were designing > one, it would indeed have a micro-controller with the > calibration established by a couple precision resistors > and the processor's 10-bit a/d. Given that its so > very easy to do, I'm mystified as to why anyone would > not do it. > > But the voltages and behaviors you cited are waaayyy out > of whack. > > Bob . . . > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:33 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! At 05:11 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: > >Bob, >I too have a new version of the Schumacher. I have not tried the >voltage checks, but did notice that it took substantially longer for >the new unit to top off my PC 680. Compared to the older unit. The >old unit would sometimes go into float in a minute or less. >The new unit was charging for half an hour or longer. I did close >the alternate buss feed to check volts on the panel. If I remember >correctly the panel voltmeter was well in excess of 14 nearing 15 >volts. That reading is less that accurate as the graduations on my >voltmeter are 9,12,15 etc. Bottom line is that I too felt there was >quite a change from the old model to the new one. > Thanks for that data point. Don't you have a whippy little digital multimeter? If not, drop me your mailing address. I've got a wad left over from the seminar door prizes stash. I'll send you one. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! From: Kevin Boddicker Thanks for the offer. I have two. I will try to get some data on my next airport visit. I will record some numbers and get back to you. Is there anything I should be aware of,or a certain protocol, before proceeding? Kevin On Mar 22, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 05:11 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: >> >> Bob, >> I too have a new version of the Schumacher. I have not tried the voltage checks, but did notice that it took substantially longer for the new unit to top off my PC 680. Compared to the older unit. The old unit would sometimes go into float in a minute or less. >> The new unit was charging for half an hour or longer. I did close the alternate buss feed to check volts on the panel. If I remember correctly the panel voltmeter was well in excess of 14 nearing 15 volts. That reading is less that accurate as the graduations on my voltmeter are 9,12,15 etc. Bottom line is that I too felt there was quite a change from the old model to the new one. >> > > Thanks for that data point. Don't you have a whippy > little digital multimeter? If not, drop me your mailing > address. I've got a wad left over from the seminar door > prizes stash. I'll send you one. > > Bob . . . > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:08 PM PST US From: "Tony Babb" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! Just one more data point. I bought my 1562A at Wal-Mart maybe 6 months ago and for the past couple of months it's been attached to my 1980 Camaro in the driveway which has a one year old battery. Currently shows 13.42 volts. By the way, they are indeed made in China, per the label. Tony Babb Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go www.alejandra.net/velocity -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:19 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Schumacher for battery maintenance, vote now! --> At 05:11 PM 3/22/2010, you wrote: >--> > >Bob, >I too have a new version of the Schumacher. I have not tried the >voltage checks, but did notice that it took substantially longer for >the new unit to top off my PC 680. Compared to the older unit. The >old unit would sometimes go into float in a minute or less. >The new unit was charging for half an hour or longer. I did close >the alternate buss feed to check volts on the panel. If I remember >correctly the panel voltmeter was well in excess of 14 nearing 15 >volts. That reading is less that accurate as the graduations on my >voltmeter are 9,12,15 etc. Bottom line is that I too felt there was >quite a change from the old model to the new one. > Thanks for that data point. Don't you have a whippy little digital multimeter? If not, drop me your mailing address. I've got a wad left over from the seminar door prizes stash. I'll send you one. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:16 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Symbols Library Bob, I went to your site with the intentions of downloading your electrical symbols library in .dwg AutoCAD format. When I "Clicked Here", it said I didn't have permission to access that server. Is your symbols library available to download and if so, how could I access it? I have TurboCad Deluxe 9.2 if that matters. Bill B ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:28 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a used PC680 battery From: Jared Yates I'm still in the building stage, and I plan to use a PC680 battery in my project. It seems wasteful for me to buy a new one just for the sake of building my electrical system and battery support structure, since it will be a couple of years before I'm ready to fly. By then I would like to start my flight testing with a new battery, so it makes good sense to make use of a retired one for such construction ground operations. Is there is anyone out there who has proactively removed a PC680 and would like to sell it to me? I know that some people have mentioned that they use them for lawn mowers and such, but surely there is someone out there who has one sitting around. If you are that someone, please send me an email with your requested price and payment method. Thanks! Jared ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:36 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Symbols Library From: "mmayfield" Strange. I just downloaded it fine. On Bobs Aeroelectric webpage, I went to: Downloadable Reference Materials > Page per System Drawings > ACAD Symbols Library > Symbols 5.zip Temporary server glitch maybe? That error message doesn't have anything to do with your CAD program. It's a website/server thing, but I know all of Bob's CAD stuff is definitely downloadable. Regards, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291379#291379 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.