---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/05/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:36 AM - Re: Infinity grip (Speedy11@aol.com) 2. 10:23 AM - Re: Infinity grip (CHARLES T BECKER) 3. 10:48 AM - D-sub questions (rparigoris) 4. 11:07 AM - Re: Infinity grip (Eric M. Jones) 5. 12:03 PM - Re: Infinity grip (rampil) 6. 12:10 PM - firewall shields... yet again (jayb) 7. 03:12 PM - Re: Infinity grip (Mauri Morin) 8. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Infinity grip (Mauri Morin) 9. 06:49 PM - Re: firewall shields... yet again (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 08:41 PM - Re: D-sub questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:57 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Infinity grip Mauri, FYI, I have some problems with sticking switches on the Infinity stick. In particular, the PTT and flap switches are the most aggravating. It happens with both the momentary button and the silver toggle switch. JD said the buttons may have a bit of plastic that needs to be trimmed to solve the problem - that doesn't explain the toggle switch, though. I suggest you examine the button before assembly. Stan Sutterfield Do not archive I'm in the process of wiring my RV-8 and have a switch on the Infinity grip to control the Airflow Performance (API) aux fuel pump. The literature on the pump says the current draw is 5 amps at 12 volts and should be protected with a 10 amp c/b. The switch in the grip is rated at 6 amp at 12volts. API engineering thinks the switch in the grip may not be able to handle the inrush current on the pump when actitivated and thinks I should use a relay which I'd rather not do. J.D at Infinity Aerospace thinks a zener diode will solve this problem and suggested I check with you for your opinion and a possible circuit. Since this combination of grip and pump has been used in a lot of RVs, I thought that, if this was a problem, it would have been solved by someone already. Mauri Morin ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:41 AM PST US From: "CHARLES T BECKER" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity grip For peace of mind and reduced complexity, I'd use the relays. It keeps all the really high currents out of the grip. Charlie On Tue, 4 May 2010 17:30:22 -0600 "Mauri Morin" wrote: > Bob, > I'm in the process of wiring my RV-8 and have a switch >on the Infinity grip to control the Airflow Performance >(API) aux fuel pump. > The literature on the pump says the current draw is 5 >amps at 12 volts and should be protected with a 10 amp >c/b. > The switch in the grip is rated at 6 amp at 12volts. > API engineering thinks the switch in the grip may not be >able to handle the inrush current on the pump when >actitivated and thinks I should use a relay which I'd >rather not do. > J.D at Infinity Aerospace thinks a zener diode will >solve this problem and suggested I check with you for >your opinion and a possible circuit. > > Since this combination of grip and pump has been used in >a lot of RVs, I thought that, if this was a problem, it >would have been solved by someone already. > > Mauri Morin > Ronan, MT > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:29 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub questions From: "rparigoris" Hi Group I have a few questions about D-sub connectors: **How many amps are each pin good for using the nice machined pins? **How many amps are each pin good for using solder on pins? **I want to run my Ray Allen pitch and roll servo wiring through D-sub connector. Would it be advisable, especially on the pitch to parallel two pins? **I need to run 4 shielded wires out on my instrument module (2ea. mic and speaker). I would like to use a D-sub connector on the bottom port side of my instrument module to allow easier instrument module removal and install. Thus there will be a few inches of unshielded wires at the connector: $$Should I use D-sub shielded shells? This D-sub connector is about 5" away from my Dynon D-10A **I have a single point ground on firewall with field of tabs. I think I remember seeing for avionics and instruments (can't find it) a D-sub connector with perhaps 3 or 4 wires going to field of tabs, and all the pins connected to one side to those 3 or 4 wires to make a field of pins to be used for single point ground. Is this acceptable for grounding on the same connector: $$mic and speaker shield? $$Radio and transponder grounds? $$Instrument grounds? Thx. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296854#296854 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:01 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Infinity grip From: "Eric M. Jones" A word on switches: The make switches in runs of tens-of-millions, where minor costs are serious concerns--and that's why they squeeze every penny out of the design. (And that's why your Exacto knife doesn't have a one-cent washer between the handle and the collar). So it's easy to find out that your switches are too cheap for the job, especially switches that don't have jungle-environment ratings, which they really need when you are 20 miles from the airport and you hear that funny sound.... My philosophy is to use environmentally sealed switches on control sticks. People sweat an awful lot. Oddly enough, computer joysticks frequently have excellent (but low current) switches. My Glastar (the plan is...) should have two Saitek Cyborg 2000 stick grips which have half a dozen cool features (and adjustments with metal fasteners) not found elsewhere. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296856#296856 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:27 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Infinity grip From: "rampil" Just out of curiousity, why do you feel the need for an Aux pump control on your stick? It seems that you would only use it at the start and end (perhaps) of a flight, and stick controls should generally be reserved for things that you fiddle with frequently during a flight. This would seem especially true after learning that the switch is not adequate for the pump you bought. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296862#296862 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:26 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: firewall shields... yet again From: "jayb" I've been reading a lot about firewall shields lately. For split shields like 61-300 from Aircraft Spruce... If using over existing wires, is it designed to cover the existing grommet? Or maybe it's assumed that there isn't an existing grommet? I can't see how any new grommet would be applied for existing wires unless that grommet were split too. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious. These look pretty interesting for new wire runs... http://precision-grommets.com. Lots of sizes and available in stainless too. Regards, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296864#296864 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Infinity grip From: Mauri Morin Thanks, Bob, for your help. Think I'll bite the bullet and go with the relay. Wish I'd thought of this ealier but ..OH WELL. Mauri DO NOT ARCHIVE On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 06:30 PM 5/4/2010, you wrote: > > Bob, > I'm in the process of wiring my RV-8 and have a switch on the Infinity grip > to control the Airflow Performance (API) aux fuel pump. > The literature on the pump says the current draw is 5 amps at 12 volts and > should be protected with a 10 amp c/b. > The switch in the grip is rated at 6 amp at 12volts. > API engineering thinks the switch in the grip may not be able to handle the > inrush current on the pump when actitivated and thinks I should use a relay > which I'd rather not do. > J.D at Infinity Aerospace thinks a zener diode will solve this problem and > suggested I check with you for your opinion and a possible circuit. > > Since this combination of grip and pump has been used in a lot of RVs, I > thought that, if this was a problem, it would have been solved by someone > already. > > > API is correct in that some sort of buffering > between the switch and motor is called for. > It's probably a PM motor with a significant > spin-up transient. The relay is the simplest. > You can do it with a single transistor and a > few jelly bean components too. I can sketch > either. > > Bob . . . > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Infinity grip From: Mauri Morin On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:23 AM, wrote: Stan, Thanks for the heads up, I'll check the whole grip out when I mount it on the stick Mauri DO NOT ARCHIVE > Mauri, > FYI, I have some problems with sticking switches on the Infinity stick. In > particular, the PTT and flap switches are the most aggravating. It happens > with both the momentary button and the silver toggle switch. JD said the > buttons may have a bit of plastic that needs to be trimmed to solve the > problem - that doesn't explain the toggle switch, though. > I suggest you examine the button before assembly. > Stan Sutterfield > Do not archive > > I'm in the process of wiring my RV-8 and have a switch on the Infinity > grip to control the Airflow Performance (API) aux fuel pump. > The literature on the pump says the current draw is 5 amps at 12 volts > and should be protected with a 10 amp c/b. > The switch in the grip is rated at 6 amp at 12volts. > API engineering thinks the switch in the grip may not be able to handle > the inrush current on the pump when actitivated and thinks I should use > a relay which I'd rather not do. > J.D at Infinity Aerospace thinks a zener diode will solve this problem > and suggested I check with you for your opinion and a possible circuit. > > Since this combination of grip and pump has been used in a lot of RVs, I > thought that, if this was a problem, it would have been solved by > someone already. > > Mauri Morin > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: firewall shields... yet again At 02:09 PM 5/5/2010, you wrote: I've been reading a lot about firewall shields lately. For split shields like 61-300 from Aircraft Spruce... If using over existing wires, is it designed to cover the existing grommet? The shields are to protect a grommet which is part of the complete installation. Or maybe it's assumed that there isn't an existing grommet? There must be one. Also, it's also a good idea to use some fire-putty to put a nice fillet around the wires and cover the gap between the shield an grommet underneath. I can't see how any new grommet would be applied for existing wires unless that grommet were split too. Yup, that's what you have to do. It's commonly done to replace aged and degraded grommets with new ones without pulling the wires out of the hole. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious. These look pretty interesting for new wire runs... http://precision-grommets.com. Lots of sizes and available in stainless too. Emacs! Certainly a class act product. Keep in mind that the PRIMARY purpose of a grommet is to mechanically separate and isolate relatively vulnerable wire insulation from the sharp edge of a fire-wall sheet or other thin penetration. Maintaining fire-wall integrity calls for gas-tightness with some degree of resistance to fuel fed flames. Of course, the classic rubber/plastic grommet has no resistance to flames so we have to add the steel shields and fire-putty to add flame resistance to the assembly. Grommets like those shown above are obviously flame resistant but we're still interested in the best-we-know-how-to-do for gas tightness too. So perhaps the fire-putty fillet on the engine side is still called for. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:33 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-sub questions At 12:46 PM 5/5/2010, you wrote: > > >Hi Group > >I have a few questions about D-sub connectors: > >**How many amps are each pin good for using the nice machined pins? The continuous rating for individual pins is 7A >**How many amps are each pin good for using solder on pins? Same . . . You can run a LOT of current through a D-sub connector. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg I used this technique to run 20+ amps through D-subs on this vehicle's . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_1st_Ops_Flight.jpg DC power distribution assembly . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_Power_Dist.jpg which featured solid state switching. In this application, we de-rated pins to 4A each and paralleled 5 pins for the 20A conductors. The de-rating was in recognition of our 70C max operating environment. >**I want to run my Ray Allen pitch and roll servo wiring through >D-sub connector. Would it be advisable, especially on the pitch to >parallel two pins? Can't think of a good reason why. >**I need to run 4 shielded wires out on my instrument module (2ea. >mic and speaker). I would like to use a D-sub connector on the >bottom port side of my instrument module to allow easier instrument >module removal and install. Thus there will be a few inches of >unshielded wires at the connector: >$$Should I use D-sub shielded shells? This D-sub connector is about >5" away from my Dynon D-10A No, take shields through the connectors on their own pins. Actually, these signals can be carried very nicely on twisted pairs and/or trios with no shielding but if you choose to shield, treat the shields as separate conductors. >**I have a single point ground on firewall with field of tabs. I >think I remember seeing for avionics and instruments (can't find it) >a D-sub connector with perhaps 3 or 4 wires going to field of tabs, >and all the pins connected to one side to those 3 or 4 wires to make >a field of pins to be used for single point ground. Is this >acceptable for grounding on the same connector: >$$mic and speaker shield? >$$Radio and transponder grounds? >$$Instrument grounds? FOLLOW THE WIRING DIAGRAM FOR THE PRODUCTS YOU ARE INSTALLING. Shields on wires that run between black boxes GENERALLY terminate on either some specific pin in a connector or the connector's back-shell. They NEVER get long pigtails off to some remote ground location. The grounding configurations shown in Appendix Z are for accessory power grounds, not system signal or shield grounds. 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