Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:31 AM - Bussmann fuse blocks (Jef Vervoort)
2. 04:05 AM - Fw: Re: Re: IVO Prop System Brushes (n801bh@netzero.com)
3. 05:59 AM - Re: Bussmann fuse blocks (Ken Howell)
4. 06:54 AM - Bussmann fuse blocks (Chris Stone)
5. 07:51 AM - Re: IVO Prop System Brushes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:04 AM - Ivo motor current limiter design (Mike Welch)
7. 10:18 AM - Re: Ivo motor current limiter design (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 01:06 PM - Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement (jonlaury)
9. 01:22 PM - Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? (Peter Pengilly)
10. 02:47 PM - Re: Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? (David LLoyd)
11. 05:16 PM - Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal (Mike Welch)
12. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: Re: IVO Prop Motor Current Limiter and Electronic CB (Ken)
14. 10:13 PM - Re: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal (Etienne Phillips)
Message 1
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Subject: | Bussmann fuse blocks |
Does anyone know if this company is still in business:
http://www.mihdirect.biz/
My emails are without reply.
Does anyone know of another source for these fuse blocks, to be mounted in
the main panel of an RV9 ?
Jef Vervoort
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: IVO Prop System Brushes |
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Please note: forwarded message attached
From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: IVO Prop System Brushes
Your explaination and picture clearly shows the reason for high wear rat
es for those brushes..Surface speed is the main culprit and at the diame
ters the brushes ride against is a built in evil that cannot be reduced
much.
I fabricated everything on my experimental and in a earlier life I spen
t 25 years in the racing arena, building motors mostly. I am very famili
er with non destructive testing, ie, magnaflux, zyglo, dye penetrant, ed
dy current,sonic testing for wall thickness, Xray among other methods. I
also did extensive destructive testing because that shows the real outc
ome of system failures, building expensive motors only to blow them up d
oes get expensive but the remains of said motors are invaluable for anal
ysis.
I can see your thoughts on a lay person dissambling a componant only to
destroy any evidence to use to explain that failure.... I would like to
think I am capable of exceeding the lay persons ability of that task.
I would like to share my thoughts on the first motors failure; My appl
ication is unique in that I am transferring ALOT of horsepower through t
he Ivo prop and its related componants. I also started with the largest
diameter blades Ivo offered, 84". My first 25 hours of test flights were
using the Magnum Paddle series blades too and they are substantially bi
gger and stiffer then the regular magnum blades. My guess is the increas
ed forces needed to twist those blades took out the motor, even though R
on at Ivo knew and sold me that set up. Hey,,, we are experimenting here
and both Ron and I may have learned something by my initial failure. H
e is a real nice guy too. By the lack of others responding of their moto
rs failing my gut feeling as of this morning is that my 84" paddle blade
s hurt the motor, not a inherent design flaw. I never suggested somethin
g sinister, sorry it seemed to come across that way.
In closing I truly want to say THANK YOU for sharing your vast knowledge
of electrical experiences throughout the years. I for one have gained a
ton from it.
Tailwinds,,, and do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Please note: message attached
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: IVO Prop System Brushes
____________________________________________________________
$12/Month Auto Insurance
Drivers in your area are paying as low as $12/m. Free Quote instantly.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4bea8ab4c23dd3e77a4st06vuc
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks |
http://www.steinair.com/fuseblocks.htm
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:26 AM, Jef Vervoort <jef.vervoortw@telenet.be>wrote:
> Does anyone know if this company is still in business:
> http://www.mihdirect.biz/
>
> My emails are without reply.
>
>
> Does anyone know of another source for these fuse blocks, to be mounted in
> the main panel of an RV9 ?
>
>
> Jef Vervoort
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Bussmann fuse blocks |
Jef...
All of the Bussman fuse products are available from Waytek.
Chris Stone
RV-8 OR
http://order.waytekwire.com/products2/M50/140/350/250/1/ATO/ATC%20Fuse%20Blocks/Blade%20Fuses%20And%20Accessories/Circuit%20Protection/
Does anyone know if this company is still in
business: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
My emails are without reply.
Does anyone know of another source for these fuse
blocks, to be mounted in the main panel of an RV9 ?
Jef Vervoort
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: IVO Prop System Brushes |
I can see your thoughts on a lay person dissambling a componant only
to destroy any evidence to use to explain that failure.... I would
like to think I am capable of exceeding the lay persons ability of that task.
Sure, but IVO probably didn't know that. Further,
given that they probably knew more about their
product's design, development and field history,
it seems likely that they are the most qualified
to do failure analysis . . . presuming that their
grasp on the simple-ideas and critical thinking
was up to the task.
I've always desired that field failures of my
products be returned to me for analysis . . .
irrespective of the $time$, talents and resources
of individuals who discovered the failure.
At least for the FIRST time. As you are no doubt
aware, failures arise from a host of stresses
impressed upon weaknesses. The best understanding
of a product's overall performance comes from
a central repository of all data points. This
is best kept with the honorable manufacturer.
However, second and subsequent failures of the
same nature are up for grabs. For a single customer
or some small cluster of customers to experience
the same failure suggests a high-risk stress/weakness
couple that would probably benefit from analysis
by many.
I wasn't suggesting that you were not qualified
or even within your rights as owner of a piece of
failed hardware to do with it as you wish. But
from the perspective of one who has been intimately
attached to dozens of products from conception all
the way through development, qualification, manufacturing,
evolution of design and decades of field service
history, I can empathize with IVO's desire for
conducting their own failure investigation.
I would like to share my thoughts on the first motors failure; My
application is unique in that I am transferring ALOT of horsepower
through the Ivo prop and its related componants. I also started with
the largest diameter blades Ivo offered, 84". My first 25 hours of
test flights were using the Magnum Paddle series blades too and they
are substantially bigger and stiffer then the regular magnum blades.
My guess is the increased forces needed to twist those blades took
out the motor, even though Ron at Ivo knew and sold me that set up.
Hey,,, we are experimenting here and both Ron and I may have learned
something by my initial failure. He is a real nice guy too.
I suspect he is also honorable and that your
joint efforts will do much to advance the value
of his products.
By the lack of others responding of their motors failing my gut
feeling as of this morning is that my 84" paddle blades hurt the
motor, not a inherent design flaw. I never suggested something
sinister, sorry it seemed to come across that way.
Not a problem . . . and it wasn't intended to be
an accusation . . . only an observation based on
my own experiences and intended for 1800 others
who read this List. It's all too easy . . . and
too common for innocuous assertions to morph in
directions that the speaker never intended.
In closing I truly want to say THANK YOU for sharing your vast
knowledge of electrical experiences throughout the years. I for one
have gained a ton from it.
Its a two way street. I AM THANKFUL that the List
offers me opportunity and a reason to be
both curious and constructively critical of
the collections of simple-ideas that drive
performance and value of our airplanes.
I agree with your impressions of the IVO concept
for prop-pitch management. It's a novel idea with
a VERY low parts count but comes with a new set
of challenges. The FORCES involved are, shall we
say, significant? First you have to build a blade
that will survive and perform it's intended task
while still being flexible enough to allow this
pitch-adjusting philosophy to be applied. At the
same time, you need a mechanism that can not only
produce those forces in a controlled fashion but
be able to HOLD against those forces while
vigorously thrashing the air with an energetic
engine.
Achieving the combination of features that meets
design goals while remaining free of hazardous
failure is no simple task. Anything we can do to
be helpful in refining those processes seems
a useful and valuable thing to do. It may
be that a change of gear reduction for the larger
propellers would reduce stresses on the motor.
His product may also be a candidate for a
brushless motor design. Brushless motors can
operate with VERY fast design points and get
a whole lot more horsepower from a small
package. The brushless technology is
so prevalent that prices are now a fraction
of what they were 20 years ago. Further,
the electronics associated with brushless
motor drives is easily integrated into
sophisticated controllers that would limit
both current spikes and servoing pitch for
constant speed operation.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Ivo motor current limiter design |
Bob=2C group=2C
I just ordered the components for the solid state Ivo current limiter tha
t Bob drew up for us.
Hopefully=2C I'll get it built in a couple of weeks=2C and begin testing.
I'm sure every motor/prop is a little bit different=2C so I got a few ext
ra .1 and .2 ohm resistors for fine tuning.
I hope I'm not too off base and abusing Bob's design goals=2C but I also
bought a 3 position rotary switch=2C with the intent of locating it in conj
unction of the .1 & .2 ohm resistors. My intension is to adjust the resist
ance readings of the three-position switch to show a 2-3 amp limit=2C a 5-6
amp limit=2C and an 8-9 amp limit indication.
I hope this isn't total heresy. Any criticism=2C BTW=2C will be duly not
ed and appreciated!!!
A special "thanks" to Bob for designing this circuit.
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Ivo motor current limiter design |
At 11:04 AM 5/12/2010, you wrote:
Bob, group,
I just ordered the components for the solid state Ivo current
limiter that Bob drew up for us.
Hopefully, I'll get it built in a couple of weeks, and begin
testing. I'm sure every motor/prop is a little bit different, so I
got a few extra .1 and .2 ohm resistors for fine tuning.
I hope I'm not too off base and abusing Bob's design goals, but I
also bought a 3 position rotary switch, with the intent of locating
it in conjunction of the .1 & .2 ohm resistors. My intension is to
adjust the resistance readings of the three-position switch to show a
2-3 amp limit, a 5-6 amp limit, and an 8-9 amp limit indication.
I hope this isn't total heresy. Any criticism, BTW, will be duly
noted and appreciated!!!
The 'problem' with using wire and moving parts
to switch low value resistors (under 1 ohm) is that
the compoents and materials used will add 'significant'
resistance to the devices being switched. Another
thing to consider is the current rating of the
switch. A significant portion of the total motor
current flows in the switch.
Note that the term 'significant' is not quantified
and what you propose is probably useful for the
experiment. But pending observations during the
experiment you'll no doubt want to fine tune
the final resistance values and eliminate the
switch.
My personal favorite "switch" for low resistance
experiments is the soldering iron. I'd tack-solder
the parallel tuning resistors onto the leads of
the permanently installed resistor.
Thanks for helping out.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 02:48 PM 5/11/2010, you wrote:
>
> If an alternator is working, it will have a
> positive indication of output current consisting
> of aircraft system loads PLUS anything the battery
> is asking for in order to replenish a discharge.
> Alternators mask dead batteries . . . but batteries
> don't mask anything.
>
I re-read CH2 on Batteries, but it seems that with the sensor on the contactor-main
bus leg, the sensor would only see the current(amps) going through that leg
to the main bus. The bus voltage would show up on the voltmeter indicating
alternator condition, but I don't see how the HS could detect current going to
the battery if it is located on a branch of the system.
So I'm happy that I can at least verify that the alternator is working with the
sensor inside the cabin, but it seems that if I want to know how hard, I will
need another sensor at the alternator, or use a shunt per Z-13 and forget the
hall sensor.
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297528#297528
Message 9
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Subject: | Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? |
Hi,
I have a Becker AR4201 radio in my One Design
<http://www.glosterairparts.co.uk/OneDesignRebuild8.htm> that I have
just started flying (2 hours on the tacho). Initially the radio worked
great (after I got the mike jack wiring correct - there's always one
bozo moment in any project). Halfway through the 2nd flight the transmit
quit - receive was still good. Plugging in another headset on the ground
and the transmit worked OK.
A couple of days later I pushed the aeroplane out for another flight and
no transmit at all. Carrier wave is being transmitted but no modulation
(and so side tone in my headset). After trying to figure it out for an
hour I put it back together and went flying, still with carrier wave
only. After a while I called a local tower (119.0) - loud and clear.
Returned to my field (124.1) to the same problem - carrier wave only.
What is going on!!! :-(
I have not been able to test further - but I need to step through the
frequency range and find out which freqs work and which do not. This is
a very simple airplane with no intercom, headset connected directly to
the radio. Receive is good all the time, on all freqs tried so far.
Radio shows the transmit arrow whenever the PTT is pushed, and puts out
carrier wave on 124.1. Why is it modulating on some freqs and not
others? Headset works in other aircraft (have tried 3 so far with same
results).
Does anyone have any idea about what is going on?
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Peter
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? |
Peter,
>From your description...no modulation is happening. Kinda' points to
the microphone cartridge or wiring in your headset is randomly
malfunctioning. Since you can plug another headset in and all works
well, it points to the mike subassembly in your headset. The wiring
inside most sets is really tiny stuff. Maybe the wire has broken inside
the insulation and makes contact only when your head or mike boom is in
a certain position and then, the wire opens in other positions. Check
it closely and carefully flex the wiring and see if you can find it.
Using an ohm-meter is probably the easiest tool to see if a break is
present.
If the mike cartridge is bad, the manufacturer has to send you a new one
or you send the headset back in with a detailed note describing the
"randomness". Of operation.
I once had a David Clark set that developed a failed speaker element.
Called DC and told them the problem. Guy on line said, "...that's
impossible. We've never had the earpiece element fail". I had to do
some tall talking to convince him to send me a new one. He did with my
promise to send back the old one. He later called and softly
apologized. The element had indeed, failed some way inside the unit.
David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Pengilly
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strange radio transmit problem - any
suggestions?
Hi,
I have a Becker AR4201 radio in my One Design that I have just started
flying (2 hours on the tacho). Initially the radio worked great (after I
got the mike jack wiring correct - there's always one bozo moment in any
project). Halfway through the 2nd flight the transmit quit - receive was
still good. Plugging in another headset on the ground and the transmit
worked OK.
A couple of days later I pushed the aeroplane out for another flight
and no transmit at all. Carrier wave is being transmitted but no
modulation (and so side tone in my headset). After trying to figure it
out for an hour I put it back together and went flying, still with
carrier wave only. After a while I called a local tower (119.0) - loud
and clear. Returned to my field (124.1) to the same problem - carrier
wave only. What is going on!!! :-(
I have not been able to test further - but I need to step through the
frequency range and find out which freqs work and which do not. This is
a very simple airplane with no intercom, headset connected directly to
the radio. Receive is good all the time, on all freqs tried so far.
Radio shows the transmit arrow whenever the PTT is pushed, and puts out
carrier wave on 124.1. Why is it modulating on some freqs and not
others? Headset works in other aircraft (have tried 3 so far with same
results).
Does anyone have any idea about what is going on?
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Peter
Message 11
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Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Group=2C
While searching Dynon's archives I found the following correspondence fro
m a guy that wanted to do exactly the same thing as me......set the audio a
lert signal to ALSO activate a line of LEDs.
In addition to the audio tone that the D10A emits=2C I want it to also po
wer a "555 timer/decade counter---LED strobe circuit" that I built.
The circuit is built=2C now I just need to know a good way to send a pow
er source to it from th D10A's alarm signal.
Evidently=2C according to Dynon support=2C I can choose between a steady
tone=2C or an increasing rate intermittant tone=2C increasing in frequency
the closer one gets to critical AOA.
I believe my decade counter circuit needs a solid 5-15volts=2C so I'd cho
ose the steady tone.
The following is the archived messages=3B
QUESTION:
I am interested in connecting the AOA audio on my D10A to a device that wou
ld be audible or visible in the cabin of the RV-6. I assume the audio outpu
t is a modulated signal. Is there an easy way to convert this output to DC
voltage that would drive a beeper/buzzer/warning light/whatever?
___________________________________________________________________________
___
ANSWER=3B (from Dynon Technical Support)
The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak=2C at 1k ohm of impedance
=2C and between 200 and 1KHz. It will drive into an audio panel and put noi
se in your headset. We generate different noises for different alarms (gene
ral alarm=2C AoA=2C autopilot=2C altitude alerter...)
If you're looking to put it into a external buzzer or drive an external lig
ht=2C we can't be much help=2C as we didn't design it for that nor have we
ever attempted it. With a small op-amp and
some thought it could be done for sure though.
___________________________________________________________________________
_
My question is=3B with the audio alarm signal(s) that the D10A produces(d
escribed by Dynon Tech Support)=2C how can I tap into that signal for my LE
D circuit=2C and not screw it up for the intercom "audio in"?
Any ideas? Thanks for your help!!
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P
ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
I re-read CH2 on Batteries, but it seems that with the sensor on the
contactor-main bus leg, the sensor would only see the current(amps)
going through that leg to the main bus.
Correct.
The bus voltage would show up on the voltmeter indicating alternator
condition, but I don't see how the HS could detect current going to
the battery if it is located on a branch of the system.
How would you use that information if you had
it?
So I'm happy that I can at least verify that the alternator is
working with the sensor inside the cabin, but it seems that if I want
to know how hard, I will need another sensor at the alternator, or
use a shunt per Z-13 and forget the hall sensor.
You KNOW how hard the alternator is working
before you ever fly the airplane. I.e., it
HAS to be large enough to carry all of system
loads PLUS recharge a battery.
If your low volts warning light is out, the
alternator IS WORKING. If the battery cranked
your engine to get you airborne and you're
confident of its CAPACITY, then the battery
IS WORKING. If in the rare instance that you
loose either alternator or battery contactor,
the e-bus alternate feed gives you a means by
which you get comfortably on the ground . . .
preferably at airport of intended destination.
Ammeters of any style installed connected to
measure any current flow in the aircraft are
diagnostic tools where the data offered is best
considered on the ground. Ammeters are
not particularly useful for making Plan-A/Plan-B
decisions in flight.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: re: IVO Prop Motor Current Limiter and Electronic |
CB
Is it true that IVO insists that the supplied wiring to the prop not be
shortened as it is part of the current limiting to protect the motor gears?
Ken
> This is why I like the idea of the electronic limiting feature of
> Bob's circuit. The reed switch is a huge improvement over guessing
> where the prop is set, or using the provided CB as the ultimate
> 'stop'. It lets the user know when the limit is reached, but doesn't
> prevent abuse (intentional or inadvertent). The electronic CB
> prevents the abuse, and can only help improve the life of the gear
> train and electric motor.
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Hi Mike
As an alternative, would it not be easier and more reliable to use the
serial stream output to get the AoA? Although this would involve a
microprocessor, you would have direct access to the real AoA value at
all times, not just when the alarm sounds.
If you are looking for a strobe that flashes for all alarms, then your
way is probably better, but if it's just for AoA, then I would suggest
looking at the serial stream.
Thanks
Etienne
On 13 May 2010, at 2:14 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
> Group,
>
> While searching Dynon's archives I found the following
correspondence from a guy that wanted to do exactly the same thing as
me......set the audio alert signal to ALSO activate a line of LEDs.
> In addition to the audio tone that the D10A emits, I want it to also
power a "555 timer/decade counter---LED strobe circuit" that I built.
> The circuit is built, now I just need to know a good way to send a
power source to it from th D10A's alarm signal.
> Evidently, according to Dynon support, I can choose between a steady
tone, or an increasing rate intermittant tone, increasing in frequency
the closer one gets to critical AOA.
> I believe my decade counter circuit needs a solid 5-15volts, so I'd
choose the steady tone.
>
> The following is the archived messages;
>
> QUESTION:
> I am interested in connecting the AOA audio on my D10A to a device
that would be audible or visible in the cabin of the RV-6. I assume the
audio output is a modulated signal. Is there an easy way to convert this
output to DC voltage that would drive a beeper/buzzer/warning
light/whatever?
>
__________________________________________________________________________
____
> ANSWER; (from Dynon Technical Support)
> The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak, at 1k ohm of
impedance, and between 200 and 1KHz. It will drive into an audio panel
and put noise in your headset. We generate different noises for
different alarms (general alarm, AoA, autopilot, altitude alerter...)
>
> If you're looking to put it into a external buzzer or drive an
external light, we can't be much help, as we didn't design it for that
nor have we ever attempted it. With a small op-amp and
> some thought it could be done for sure though.
>
__________________________________________________________________________
__
>
>
> My question is; with the audio alarm signal(s) that the D10A
produces(described by Dynon Tech Support), how can I tap into that
signal for my LED circuit, and not screw it up for the intercom "audio
in"?
>
> Any ideas? Thanks for your help!!
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts
with Hotmail. Get busy.
>
>
>
>
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