Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:44 AM - Re: Bulkhead connector (Richard Girard)
2. 09:23 AM - Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
3. 11:13 AM - Re: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question (Richard E. Tasker)
4. 11:13 AM - Re: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
5. 01:21 PM - Re: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question (Bob McCallum)
6. 01:29 PM - Re: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question (John Schroeder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead connector |
Great minds think alike? :-} This project rose back to the top of the pile
again now that I have a working PTT for the little Vertex radio. Next step
solder, add ground plane and some radials, and mount on the plane.
Rick Girard
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 01:37 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, I'm going to solder a piece of 3/32" brazing rod into the center lug
>> of the PL 259 chassis mount (the lug is drilled out to let it slip in for a
>> good mechanical attachment once the soldering is done), trim to appropriate
>> length and use it as an antenna for my hand held.
>>
>
> Okay, figure out a way to substantially beef up support
> of the rod right and for about 1" away from the solder
> joint. If allowed to "wave in be breeze" it's going
> break at the solder joint and depart the airplane . . .
> if I recall your airplane configuration correctly,
> there may be risk of putting that piece of wire through the prop?
>
> A piece of Delrin, polycarbonate, etc cut drilled and
> mounted to supply support is recommended.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
I'm still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring I'd appreciate
feedback on...
Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the linear
electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and down, Lancair
recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below) wiring to change polarity
and provide immediate braking of the actuator. Without this circuitry the
EMA will coast after releasing the switch which is a serious problem when
the flaps are at their limits.
A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I quickly
wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts quite a bit
and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
So my question is, how does it accomplish this? I've attached my draft
wiring diagram where I've created what I think is the relay circuit but am
not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All Lancair provides
in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring and a schematic of the
circuit (see second image below). I'm having to guess that the terminals 7
and 8 in the relay circuit control the switch and that it's normally closed
to pole 2 (the relay schematic from the Lancair manual is the last image
below).
Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid field
provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
Thanks,
Valin
Lancair Legacy Project
Houston, TX USA
Here's my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:
Lancair Flap Drive Wiring Drawing.jpg
Legacy Flap Wiring Pictorial.jpg
Flap Relay Schematic.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
When one selects neither up or down with the switch, the motor is
shorted by the relays (each side of the motor goes through its
respective relay's pins 5&6 through the NC connection to pins 1&2 which
are both connected to ground). The fact that they are connected to
ground is incidental. When the power leads of a running DC motor are
shorted together, the motor acts as a generator running into a short.
This almost instantaneously absorbs the rotational energy of the motor,
stopping it very quickly as you saw. If the leads were just disconnected
from power the only way for the rotational energy to dissipate is
through frictional losses in the motor and the flap mechanism - which
allows the whole system to coast to a stop as you found.
Dick Tasker
Valin & Allyson Thorn wrote:
>
> Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
>
> Im still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
> construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring Id
> appreciate feedback on...
>
> Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the
> linear electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and
> down, Lancair recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below)
> wiring to change polarity and provide immediate braking of the
> actuator. Without this circuitry the EMA will coast after releasing
> the switch which is a serious problem when the flaps are at their limits.
>
> A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I
> quickly wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts
> quite a bit and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
>
> So my question is, how does it accomplish this? Ive attached my draft
> wiring diagram where Ive created what I think is the relay circuit
> but am not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All
> Lancair provides in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring
> and a schematic of the circuit (see second image below). Im having to
> guess that the terminals 7 and 8 in the relay circuit control the
> switch and that its normally closed to pole 2 (the relay schematic
> from the Lancair manual is the last image below).
>
> Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid
> field provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Valin
>
> Lancair Legacy Project
>
> Houston, TX USA
>
> /Heres my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:/
>
> Lancair Flap Drive Wiring Drawing.jpg
>
> Legacy Flap Wiring Pictorial.jpg
>
> Flap Relay Schematic.jpg
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Ironically, I was looking at the Aeroelectric discussions from the last week
and saw that Bob in another discussion last Wednesday related to flap drives
already explained the motor braking is achieved by grounding (shorting) both
sides of the motor rather than just opening the circuit.
"Note that in the OFF position, both relays
are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
fraction of what you get when you simply open
the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
Bob . . ."
Thanks Bob. Sorry I didn't search the archives more thoroughly before
posting my question. I'd still be interested to know if it looks like I've
drawn the wiring diagram and relay circuit correctly.
Valin
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin &
Allyson Thorn
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question
Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
I'm still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring I'd appreciate
feedback on...
Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the linear
electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and down, Lancair
recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below) wiring to change polarity
and provide immediate braking of the actuator. Without this circuitry the
EMA will coast after releasing the switch which is a serious problem when
the flaps are at their limits.
A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I quickly
wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts quite a bit
and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
So my question is, how does it accomplish this? I've attached my draft
wiring diagram where I've created what I think is the relay circuit but am
not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All Lancair provides
in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring and a schematic of the
circuit (see second image below). I'm having to guess that the terminals 7
and 8 in the relay circuit control the switch and that it's normally closed
to pole 2 (the relay schematic from the Lancair manual is the last image
below).
Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid field
provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
Thanks,
Valin
Lancair Legacy Project
Houston, TX USA
Here's my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:
Message 5
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| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Valin;
The wiring as you've drawn it appears correct and will function as desired.
The second pole of the manual switch which is connected to your power source
is not strictly required. Terminals 3 & 4 of the relays could go directly
to your circuit protection bypassing the left pole of your switch. A SPDT
momentary switch wired as the right side of your DPDT controlling the relays
will give the exact same functionality. HOWEVER that second pole gives
double redundancy for turning off power to the motor when you release the
switch and is probably a good idea.
Also if I understand your explanation of how the flaps work on this aircraft
it would appear that the notes on the wires leading to the actuator are
incorrect. The drawing shows the red motor lead connected to positive
battery power and the black lead grounded. Your explanation says this is
extending the flaps and the down limit will stop this motion. The notes
associated with the wires are contradictory. (Red lead negative (Therefore
Black lead positive) to extend but it also says black lead positive
(therefore red lead negative) to retract. Obvious contradiction somewhere).
The drawing as shown supports your explanation and it is the notes which
appear confused.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin &
Allyson Thorn
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question
Ironically, I was looking at the Aeroelectric discussions from the last week
and saw that Bob in another discussion last Wednesday related to flap drives
already explained the motor braking is achieved by grounding (shorting) both
sides of the motor rather than just opening the circuit.
"Note that in the OFF position, both relays
are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
fraction of what you get when you simply open
the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
Bob . . ."
Thanks Bob. Sorry I didn't search the archives more thoroughly before
posting my question. I'd still be interested to know if it looks like I've
drawn the wiring diagram and relay circuit correctly.
Valin
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin &
Allyson Thorn
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question
Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
I'm still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring I'd appreciate
feedback on...
Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the linear
electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and down, Lancair
recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below) wiring to change polarity
and provide immediate braking of the actuator. Without this circuitry the
EMA will coast after releasing the switch which is a serious problem when
the flaps are at their limits.
A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I quickly
wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts quite a bit
and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
So my question is, how does it accomplish this? I've attached my draft
wiring diagram where I've created what I think is the relay circuit but am
not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All Lancair provides
in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring and a schematic of the
circuit (see second image below). I'm having to guess that the terminals 7
and 8 in the relay circuit control the switch and that it's normally closed
to pole 2 (the relay schematic from the Lancair manual is the last image
below).
Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid field
provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
Thanks,
Valin
Lancair Legacy Project
Houston, TX USA
Here's my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:
Message 6
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| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Valin-
I would recommend using the circuitry that Lancair has in its manual. It
incorporates what Bob has mentioned (dual relays) in his response to you,
and it works very well - stops instantly when the switch springs back to
the central/neutral position.
I am on the road, but when I get home tomorrow, I can send you the page
from my wirebook with the wiring diagram and pinout of the relays. Let me
know if you want it. I could not download your diagram to enable me to
compare it to mine. Send it off line if you want me to look it over. IMHO,
this is not a circuit in your system that needs any modification.
Regards,
John Schroeder
Lancair ES - 338 hours
>
>
>Ironically, I was looking at the Aeroelectric discussions from the last
week
>and saw that Bob in another discussion last Wednesday related to flap
drives
>already explained the motor braking is achieved by grounding (shorting)
both
>sides of the motor rather than just opening the circuit.
>
>
>
> "Note that in the OFF position, both relays
>
> are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
>
> across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
>
> PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
>
> to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
>
> fraction of what you get when you simply open
>
> the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
>
>
>
> Bob . . ."
>
>
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