---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/29/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:33 AM - Re: Tri State Logic help needed (James Kilford) 2. 01:07 AM - Re: Tri State Logic help needed (rparigoris) 3. 01:11 AM - Re: Tri State Logic help needed (rparigoris) 4. 04:51 AM - D-subminiature Connectors () 5. 07:36 AM - Re: Tri State Logic help needed (Bob McCallum) 6. 08:25 AM - Re: D-subminiature Connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 09:57 AM - Re: D-subminiature Connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 05:45 PM - IVO Prop Electronic CB report (Dennis & Anne Glaeser) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tri State Logic help needed From: James Kilford Ron, How about using a double pole switch in place of a single pole version. You can put the 0 and 12V onto the two inputs of the switch, and wire the outputs together so that they swap them between 0V on one and 12V on the other, to 12V on one and 0V on the other. Perhaps a suitable switch exists for this. A picture would doubtless speak a thousand words, but I have to dash up the paintshop because the plane's in the middle of being painted. If it's not clear I'll draw and send later. HTH. James On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:21 AM, rparigoris wrote: > > Trying to wire stick grip to control Airmaster electric constant prop manual control (jog to course or fine) we came to realization we are one wire short on connector. > > Thus it would save a lot of time and effort if I could use Tri State Logic for a solution. > > I could easily have one wire with three states using my SPTT switch on stick. > 1) Infinite resistance (not connected to anything) when switch is in neutral > 2)+12V when pushing momentary switch forward > 3) (-) ground when pushing momentary switch back > > My goals: > ** Have 2) +12V energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Course > ** Have 3) (-) energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Fine > ** Have 1) NOT energize either Course or Fine relay > > Any help and or ideas greatly appreciated. > > I think I would rather use relays compared to solid state because I just don't know what is going on inside the constant speed controller, and relay contacts can easily replicate resistance compared to supplied switch. > > I am OK with failure mode of circuit and relays because I plan to replicate for each stick (2). > > Ron Parigoris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299239#299239 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:33 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tri State Logic help needed From: "rparigoris" Hi James Thx. for the reply. We are using a Ray Allen G-205 stick grips (2). There ain't much room in there. We are using an ultra miniature single pole triple throw switch as sold by them to bearly fit in the aux position. There is no room for a triple throw double pole switch. We have a 9 pin connector that lives in the stick itself, all the pins are used up. Currently we are using two 5 twisted wires. If we added another separate wire which would then be two 5 twisted and a single wire, decided to take apart stick grip and rewire and search for an 11 pin connector that would fit in stick we could make do with the single pole triple throw switch. Stick grips are wired, connectors and wires are complete: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31677 Wayne made assumption that we could use ship +12v and (-) which he did on schematic. Kinda found out tonight we shot ourselves in foot as you really need to use +12v and (-) that is located on Airmaster controller. Anyway leaving alone stick grip, wiring of stick grip, stick grip connectors and two already made 5 wire harnesses (times two, Pilot and Co-Pilot) if we could leave existing alone anduse tri state logic to redeem ourselves, would be a big time and effort saver. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299242#299242 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:28 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tri State Logic help needed From: "rparigoris" Oops, meant Ray Allen G-207 stick Grip: http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299243#299243 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:48 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-subminiature Connectors 5/29/2010 Hello Fellow Builders, Here is what we are writing about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature Bob Nuckolls writes: "It's a fact that the majority of d-sub connectors come with short, slotted-head 4-40 jack screws that are EXCEEDINGLY difficult to work with in confined spaces traversed by wire bundles." ..and ... "the inconvenience of stock, slot-head jack-screws." {RESPONSE} He offers a screw handling solution here: http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5 I'd like to offer another solution -- use #4-40 machine screws with hex socket (Allen wrench) drive heads. The hex socket drive head allows one to manuever the small screws in a manner vastly superior to a straight slot or phillips drive head screw. See here for a source of such screws: http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm Here is just one source of tools for handling these screws: http://www.bondhus.com/ Conventional Allen wrenches work fine for most handling of these screws, but these Prohold tools will give even more control if needed: http://www.bondhus.com/features/prohold/body-0.htm 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: An aerospace vehicle with hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive fasteners is much easier to work on than a vehicle with straight slot or Phillips drive fasteners. See here for some handy tool kits to work with the hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive fasteners: http://www.chapmanmfg.com/ ======================================================= Time: 10:28:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Gauge wiring best practice I would like to make the panel easily disconnectable, and I'm going to be using something like Tyco AMP MATE-N-LOK connectors for connecting other things to the panel. (These are multi-way locking connectors, with crimped pins, supporting various wire gauges -- 10-30AWG at least). Keep in mind that every connector interface adds three new joints to every wire. Running lots of electro-goodies through a single connector adds a single point of failure for all those electro-goodies........ BIG SKIP Probably no functional differences. However, it's been my observation over the years that spending a lot of time adding complexity for some perceived future convenience has a poor return on investment. Suggest you 'enhance' the stock jack-screws and wire each instrument as a stand-alone system while minimizing features shared with other systems. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:32 AM PST US From: "Bob McCallum" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tri State Logic help needed Ron; Attached is a circuit which is not particularly elegant will function as you've requested. I'm not certain that the possible failure modes are acceptable, or that you'd be happy with the relays constantly energized which is the way this circuit operates, but for what it's worth here it is. Sketch is shown with power disconnected, relays in relaxed (off) position. This circuit will connect the fine and coarse wires to each other during normal flight operation. If this is not acceptable then a diode could be introduced in each of these wires to isolate them from each other. * With the stick switch in centre - no connection - (Situation 1) both relays are energized and no power can flow to either coarse or fine output wire. * With stick switch supplying +12V - (Situation 2) - Upper relay has +12 on both ends of coil, therefore turns off and lower relay supplies +12V to "coarse" wire. * With stick switch supplying ground - (situation 3) - Lower relay has both sides of coil grounded therefore turns off and upper relay supplies +12V to "fine" wire. Resistors should be approximately the same resistance and wattage as the relay coils. You require a resistor in the lead from each stick switch so that in a situation where one stick is selecting coarse and the other fine, the resistors dissipate the energy which would otherwise be a dead short through the grip switches. In this scenario, theoretically the relay common point would remain at 6 Volts and no pitch change would happen. You could also incorporate a panel switch into this circuit, wired the same way. Note also the relays have 6 Volt coils. Bob McC > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:22 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tri State Logic help needed > > > Trying to wire stick grip to control Airmaster electric constant prop manual control > (jog to course or fine) we came to realization we are one wire short on connector. > > Thus it would save a lot of time and effort if I could use Tri State Logic for a solution. > > I could easily have one wire with three states using my SPTT switch on stick. > 1) Infinite resistance (not connected to anything) when switch is in neutral > 2)+12V when pushing momentary switch forward > 3) (-) ground when pushing momentary switch back > > My goals: > ** Have 2) +12V energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Course > ** Have 3) (-) energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Fine > ** Have 1) NOT energize either Course or Fine relay > > Any help and or ideas greatly appreciated. > > I think I would rather use relays compared to solid state because I just don't know > what is going on inside the constant speed controller, and relay contacts can easily > replicate resistance compared to supplied switch. > > I am OK with failure mode of circuit and relays because I plan to replicate for each > stick (2). > > Ron Parigoris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299239#299239 > > > > > > > > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-subminiature Connectors > > >I'd like to offer another solution -- use #4-40 machine screws with >hex socket (Allen wrench) drive heads. The hex socket drive head >allows one to manuever the small screws in a manner vastly superior >to a straight slot or phillips drive head screw. Good put Bob! I'd neglected to include that process. I use a LOT of the hex-headed cap screws in the various instrumentation packages I've developed. This whole system is held together with hex-cap screws. http://tinyurl.com/3xzsvrd http://tinyurl.com/3xzsvrd . . . very handy . . . especially when numerous assembly/disassembly operations are necessary. Thanks for adding this to the recipes for success. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:58 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-subminiature Connectors I've updated the image at: http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5 to include Bob's contribution to the question of user friendly jackscrews. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:31 PM PST US From: "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" Subject: AeroElectric-List: IVO Prop Electronic CB report Bob, I built the 'Prop Pitch Current Limiter and Electronic CB' circuit last week and tested it today. It works as expected, with one minor difficulty - the Amber LED doesn't come on! It flashes briefly when the switch is released, but that's it. The Green LED is lit when the motor is in operation, and the CB feature works great - the motor stops when the current is a bit over 9 amps. The IRFP3703 barely gets warm, but the 0.2 ohm resister does get warm (not too hot to touch - didn't measure). What would cause the Amber LED to not come on? Could I have installed it backwards? (I double checked, but Murphy's Law has not been repealed) One of my EAA Chapter buddies has an O-scope I can borrow, so what (and how) to check? 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