Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:52 AM - Re: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please (William Curtis)
2. 10:13 AM - Trying to eliminate mini-contactors (jonlaury)
3. 10:37 AM - Long and short hot feeders (jonlaury)
4. 11:52 AM - Re: Trying to eliminate mini-contactors (Glaeser, Dennis)
5. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: IVO Prop Electronic CB report (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 11:57 AM - Re: Trying to eliminate mini-contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:02 PM - Re: Long and short hot feeders (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:20 PM - Re: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: IVO Prop Electronic CB report (Bill Boyd)
10. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: IVO Prop Electronic CB report (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:29 PM - Many thanks for help on thumbdrive problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 02:35 PM - Re: Long and short hot feeders (jonlaury)
13. 02:35 PM - Speaking of soldering . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:10 PM - Re: Long and short hot feeders (jonlaury)
15. 03:53 PM - 1st 40 hrs data collection (ray)
16. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Long and short hot feeders (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 07:07 PM - Re: Speaking of soldering . . . (Bill Boyd)
18. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: IVO Prop Electronic CB report (Dennis & Anne Glaeser)
19. 10:45 PM - Re: Long and short hot feeders (jonlaury)
20. 11:01 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
21. 11:10 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please |
Skip,
You are needlessly complicating your electrical system by adding an external
shunt, voltage power lights, fusible links etc. Order the EI
VA-1A<http://buy-ei.com/Pages/VA/VA_Overview.html>replacement
ammeter/voltmeter with the INTERNAL shunt. If your Cessna
wiring was like my Cardinal stock ammeter, it also had an internal shunt and
if you replace with the VA-1A, you will not have to make ANY changes to the
"big" wires.
You can see it in
this<http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/cardinal/panel/panel88.html>picture,
lower left:
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/cardinal/panel/panel88.html
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 2:55 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> Time: 06:45:30 PM PST US
> From: CardinalNSB@aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please
>
> (For a certified aircraft) I will be replacing my Cessna amp gauge with
> the Electronics International Ammeter/Voltmeter, which is FAA approved for
> my aircraft as a primary gauge replacement using a "shunt".
>
> 1. Should the shunt be mounted inside the cockpit or in the engine
> compartment.
>
> 2. Should the shunt be firmly mounted to the firewall or other structure,
> or is it ok to "freehang", it doesn't seem to be bigger than the turn
> coordinator capacitor that just hangs in the harness.
>
> 3. The wires that go from the shunt to the instrument are hot whenever
> the master switch is on. The installation manual recommends a 1 amp fuse
> on
> each wire. What is the best fusing practice? inline fuse on each lead
> next to the shunt? fuseable link? don't worry, the wire will burn out
> somewhere before it causes problems? are there any shunts that incorporate
> a mini
>
> atc fuse in its base?
>
> 4. For tidiness, I would like to use a single conductor shielded wire
> using the shield as one of the shunt leads. Is there any reason this is
> not a
>
> good idea? would twisting the leads in a drill mess up the accuracy?
>
> 5. Is there any reason I shouldn't take the voltage/power/light power off
> of one of the ammeter leads (the one on the same side of the shunt as the
> rest of the bus) to save running extra wire?
>
> Thanks for the help, Skip S
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Trying to eliminate mini-contactors |
In my system, I have a 10-15 amp circuit to the EFI injectors. In practice, this
circuit will see about 6a , worst case. Bob N calls for a mini-contactor for
fused circuits over 7a fused.
My Honeywell switches are rated for 15a resistive, which is effectively a 100%
margin.
Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that I could dispense with the mini-contactor
and just wire the load directly through the switch.
What say ye?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299577#299577
Message 3
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| Subject: | Long and short hot feeders |
I have used Littlefuse modular fuse holders to make up a fuse panel. This presents
the problem of all the fuse holders having a short 6-10" wire to reach the
bus.
Are they short enough to ignore (like the * denoted wires in the Z-figures) or
are fuselinks appropriate here?
I also want to bring the battery bus up close to the fuse panel so that the batt
bus fuses can be displayed in the panel. The # 12-14 hot feeder wire is about
24". Putting a mini-contactor at the battery end seems to defeat the purpose
of the always-hot batt bus, but from previous kicks in my rear, I'm hesitant
to say "fuselink" here.
But I guess I can't help myself!
I'm confused about where fuselinks are appropriate and where they aren't. It seems
like a hot feeder is an appropriate place because I want the feeder hot and
be able to handle inrushes without interruption. But if there's a dead short
on it I want it to fail before all the arcing sets something on fire or melts
adjacent infrastructure.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299585#299585
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trying to eliminate mini-contactors |
I've been flying for a couple of years now with NK switches (DPST, no relays) for
my Subaru ECU and EFI circuits with no problem. So I say dump the contactor
and switch away!
Dennis
------------------------------------------------
From: jonlaury
In my system, I have a 10-15 amp circuit to the EFI injectors. In practice, this
circuit will see about 6a , worst case. Bob N calls for a mini-contactor for
fused circuits over 7a fused.
My Honeywell switches are rated for 15a resistive, which is effectively a 100%
margin.
Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that I could dispense with the mini-contactor
and just wire the load directly through the switch.
What say ye?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
At 02:42 PM 5/31/2010, you wrote:
><glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
>
>I corrected my wiring error and the circuit works perfectly! The amber LED
>comes on when the current hits the limit (about 9A), and stays on as long as
>the switch is held, but current to the motor drops to basically nothing
>(measured with a clamp on ammeter on the ground lead). The IRFP3703 doesn't
>even get noticeably warm (above the 90F ambient today!).
This is to be expected. The transistor is switched on hard during
normal motor running conditions and therefore dissipates very little
heat. When the system DOES go into current limit, the dissipation can
jump into the 100 WATT class . . . but for only the few milliseconds
it takes for the circuit breaker function to react. So total energy
turned into heat is low.
>It will be next weekend at the earliest that I can get the Oscilloscope and
>take the readings you described, but I would bet the readings will be as you
>predict :-)
I'd be pleased to hear the results of that measurement.
>An implementation question: Are the values of R105 and R107 (the 1K
>resistors in series with the LEDs) critical? The reason I ask is that I
>have a couple of ready to mount LEDs that already have resistors built-in
>for 12V use. I don't know what values they use for the resistors. My
>suspicion is that they would work fine, but I don't want to spoil a
>perfectly good recipe!
Your supposition is probably correct, but let's leave the
1K resistors in place, eliminate the LED's and then tie
your off-the-shelf indicators in PARALLEL with the 1K
resistors. VERY low risk there.
I'm wrapping up a couple of busy consulting projects
but with nothing coming over the visible horizon. Aviation
sucks as a career when there are folks actively engaged
in disrupting an otherwise successful, spontaneous order.
I'll be putting some time into the development of about
a dozen new AEC products. Your assistance in doing the
proof of concept work on this project suggests that
perhaps the IVO Prop Electronic CB should be one of
those products.
I appreciate your time and interest in this activity.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trying to eliminate mini-contactors |
At 12:08 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>In my system, I have a 10-15 amp circuit to the EFI injectors. In
>practice, this circuit will see about 6a , worst case. Bob N calls
>for a mini-contactor for fused circuits over 7a fused.
>My Honeywell switches are rated for 15a resistive, which is
>effectively a 100% margin.
>Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that I could dispense
>with the mini-contactor and just wire the load directly through the switch.
The mini-contactor observes a legacy design
goal in type-certificated aviation for MINIMIZING
the length of always hot wires to some nominal
(6-inch) length or protection (7A fuse/5A breaker).
This is not an operational issue. It's MOSTLY based
on crash safety analysis that goes back decades.
What you propose will function as advertised
and as long as you avoid flying into hard
places, the risks are low. It's your choice.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 12:36 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have used Littlefuse modular fuse holders to make up a fuse panel.
>This presents the problem of all the fuse holders having a short
>6-10" wire to reach the bus.
Why so long?
>Are they short enough to ignore (like the * denoted wires in the
>Z-figures) or are fuselinks appropriate here?
>
>
>I also want to bring the battery bus up close to the fuse panel so
>that the batt bus fuses can be displayed in the panel. The # 12-14
>hot feeder wire is about 24". Putting a mini-contactor at the
>battery end seems to defeat the purpose of the always-hot batt bus,
>but from previous kicks in my rear, I'm hesitant to say "fuselink" here.
>
>But I guess I can't help myself!
>
>I'm confused about where fuselinks are appropriate and where they
>aren't. It seems like a hot feeder is an appropriate place because I
>want the feeder hot and be able to handle inrushes without
>interruption. But if there's a dead short on it I want it to fail
>before all the arcing sets something on fire or melts adjacent infrastructure.
Fusible links are recommended ONLY where depicted
on the z-figures. Check the archives for lots
of discussion.
I'm mystified as to the value in building a distribution
component that has so many crafted joints and detail
parts. Off-the-shelf fuse blocks were originally proposed
for their cost of ownership savings over the legacy
breaker panel configurations.
But it seems you're driving your parts count up
markedly along with $time$ invested to construct
and maintain it.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please |
At 08:42 PM 5/31/2010, you wrote:
>(For a certified aircraft) I will be replacing my Cessna amp gauge
>with the Electronics International Ammeter/Voltmeter, which is FAA
>approved for my aircraft as a primary gauge replacement using a "shunt".
Bill offered an excellent alternative if that's an option
for you. The stock Cessna ammeters were minus-zero-plus
battery ammeters with internal shunts. The electronic
drop-in replacment is a good bet.
>
>1. Should the shunt be mounted inside the cockpit or in the engine
>compartment.
close to where the old ammeter was mounted. Ideally
you'd like to put the ORIGINAL ammeter wires directly
on the new shunt.
>
>2. Should the shunt be firmly mounted to the firewall or other
>structure, or is it ok to "freehang", it doesn't seem to be bigger
>than the turn coordinator capacitor that just hangs in the harness.
Your observation is correct but you might
have trouble getting that past the next
annual inspection.
>
>3. The wires that go from the shunt to the instrument are hot
>whenever the master switch is on. The installation manual
>recommends a 1 amp fuse on each wire. What is the best fusing
>practice? inline fuse on each lead next to the shunt? fuseable
>link? don't worry, the wire will burn out somewhere before it
>causes problems? are there any shunts that incorporate a mini atc
>fuse in its base?
No . . . you don't ALREADY have a shunt?
Use 1 amp, in-line holders. If your shunt
is close to the ammeter hole in the panel,
then I'd just make the leads out of 24AWG
wire, put a couple layers of heat shrink over
them and no fuses. Their ability to smoke
is limited.
>
>4. For tidiness, I would like to use a single conductor shielded
>wire using the shield as one of the shunt leads. Is there any
>reason this is not a good idea? would twisting the leads in a drill
>mess up the accuracy?
Single wires with either 1A in-line fuses
or extra insulated 24AWG and no fuses.
>5. Is there any reason I shouldn't take the voltage/power/light
>power off of one of the ammeter leads (the one on the same side of
>the shunt as the rest of the bus) to save running extra wire?
Not REAL sure without knowing more about
the instrument's capabilities. Try it and
see. Otherwise, it's always best to follow
installation instructions.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
Is one of them the AEC9004-1 IR alternator controller? Inquiring minds
about to re-do their ship's electrical system want to know!
>
> >> I'll be putting some time into the development of about
> a dozen new AEC products. <<
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
At 02:45 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>Is one of them the AEC9004-1 IR alternator controller? Inquiring
>minds about to re-do their ship's electrical system want to know!
Yes it is.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Many thanks for help on thumbdrive problem |
I've received quite a few more devices than needed. I'll
pass some along to Dr. Dee who can use them to pass files
to her students.
This generous effort by List members will pump a few
more jobs worth of utility into a trustworthy but now
somewhat dated tool.
In the mean time, I've purchased a new toy from the
folks at DATAQ. See:
http://www.dataq.com/products/startkit/di148.htm
This little critter will gather 8 channels of 10
bit data at up to 240 samples/second as received.
It's only $50. Software that will boost it to
14,000 s/s is another $200. I've already used
this device with the supercharged software to
get some nice data on a project for Hawker-Beech.
Keep in mind that ONE of the very useful things to
do on your 40-hour fly-off is to get answers to
questions that very few builders have. MOST of
those answers may be insignificant . . . but a
few are.
Keep in mind that except for rudimentary voltage
and temperature measurements, some signal conditioning
circuitry will also be needed. It's easy to build.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
Bob,
Re length:
That's how far away my fuse panel is from the buss. Understand that the modular
fuseholders are single fuse holders that you can clip together to make any size
fuseholder you desire. You can fit more fuses in the same space as the off-the-shelf
blocks.
see http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/155_153PCMount.pdf
They allowed me to fit all my fuses into available space. I wanted to be able to
see the panel because I intend to use the ATO fuses with a blown indicator light.
So yes, there are two additional crafted connections on the pigtail to the bus.
And yes it's a lot more work to make a panel to accomodate the modular system.
And yes, the modular cost savings over a pre-configured plug'n play panel is
negligible. And yes none of this makes any sense, except that I like the look
of the panel that I made.
:D
So would fusible links be appropriate for the pigtails?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299631#299631
Message 13
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| Subject: | Speaking of soldering . . . |
I just received this little gem in the mail from an Ebay
seller. $15.00 delivered to the door. Unlike similar (and
more expensive tools) this one has an important feature.
The gas valve is vernier and can be turned down to
a very low rate. Some other tools I've had are too hot
even on the lowest settings that will keep the fire
lit.
Emacs!
Note that these tools have an open flame only while warming
up. You run them wide open until the exterior flames go out
and the openings glow orange with internal combustion of the
gas. Wait until the tip just melt your 63/37 solder
then turn the gas down until the brightest of the openings
shows only a tinge of color.
At this energy level, small joints can be made nicely
while not turning the tip to super-corroded trash.
It can also run as a tiny torch for small silver-soldering
jobs.
If I discover any down-sides to this recent purchase,
I'll let the group know.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
Bob,
In your FAQ on the AC, you say:
"Fusible links are used when you have a
single leadwire to protect where it is VERY unlikely that it will ever see a serious
fault and/or
where the
ultimate in circuit reliablity is needed."
Additionaly you speak of using fusible links to "extend the bus..."
It seems that running a wire from the battery to a remote battery buss meets the
fusible link appropriate useage you've discussed. But your caveat about not
adding fusible links to Z-figures gives me pause. I'm not comfortable second guessing
your expertise.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299643#299643
Message 15
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| Subject: | 1st 40 hrs data collection |
Keep in mind that ONE of the very useful things to
do on your 40-hour fly-off is to get answers to
questions that very few builders have. MOST of
those answers may be insignificant . . . but a
few are.
Keep in mind that except for rudimentary voltage
and temperature measurements, some signal conditioning
circuitry will also be needed. It's easy to build.
Bob . . .
Bob,
What data would you advise collecting, how would you recommend
collecting it, and what decisions would it be used to make?
Just food for thought, and I'd like to hear yours.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 05:08 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>In your FAQ on the AC, you say:
>"Fusible links are used when you have a
>single leadwire to protect where it is VERY unlikely that it will
>ever see a serious fault and/or
>where the
>ultimate in circuit reliablity is needed."
Yes. In this regard, they are very much like
the ANL current limiters. Exceedingly robust
but weak link in the electron chain . . .
>Additionaly you speak of using fusible links to "extend the bus..."
but ONLY in the configuration depicted. This
is a special case for using a circuit breaker
upstream of a crowbar ov module when the bus
is a distribution point for fuses. If the
crowbar module is installed in an aircraft
with a classic breaker panel, then the "extended"
bus is not needed and the breaker gets installed
right next to its brothers and sisters.
If you have an array of fuses or breakers used
to distribute power in the aircraft, then the
BUS is located right at the upstream side of
that fuse or breaker. This is how you get the low
parts count and compact assembly. We don't
bring an array of wires off a bus to fuse(s)
or breaker(s) and hence to the protected loads.
If you're going to assemble your own fuse block,
then what you've proposed will FUNCTION as
advertised . . . but it's not something that
anyone in the business would recommend.
>It seems that running a wire from the battery to a remote battery
>buss meets the fusible link appropriate useage you've discussed.
Absolutely not. Always hot wires are either
crew controlled -OR- protected at low levels
on the order of 7A fuse or 5A breaker. If
you are attaching wires to the battery and they
have lengths greater than the 6-inch rule of
thumb then the design goal for low magnitude
protection applies. In other words, a battery bus is
located next to the battery. Any other location
makes it something else.
> But your caveat about not adding fusible links to Z-figures gives
> me pause. I'm not comfortable second guessing your expertise.
The wires you propose are simply wires. There is
no useful purpose in calling them or designing them
to be "fusible links". Wire it up and it WILL
function.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of soldering . . . |
Be sure the thing has a positive "off." I had one from WalMart that would
not shut all the way off (I discovered the hard way) and nearly burned my
house down putting it away next to a jug of paint thinner when done with a
soldering job. I turned it off, but unbeknownst to me, it did not go all
the way out. After I discovered and fought the paint thinner fire on my
work bench, the torch was still burning - even after I tossed it out the
door into the driveway in all the excitement. "Never again!" It's the
little things...
Bill B
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> I just received this little gem in the mail from an Ebay
> seller. $15.00 delivered to the door. Unlike similar (and
> more expensive tools) this one has an important feature.
>
> The gas valve is vernier and can be turned down to
> a very low rate. Some other tools I've had are too hot
> even on the lowest settings that will keep the fire
> lit.
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Note that these tools have an open flame only while warming
> up. You run them wide open until the exterior flames go out
> and the openings glow orange with internal combustion of the
> gas. Wait until the tip just melt your 63/37 solder
> then turn the gas down until the brightest of the openings
> shows only a tinge of color.
>
> At this energy level, small joints can be made nicely
> while not turning the tip to super-corroded trash.
>
> It can also run as a tiny torch for small silver-soldering
> jobs.
>
> If I discover any down-sides to this recent purchase,
> I'll let the group know.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
>An implementation question: Are the values of R105 and R107 (the 1K
>resistors in series with the LEDs) critical? The reason I ask is that I
>have a couple of ready to mount LEDs that already have resistors built-in
>for 12V use. I don't know what values they use for the resistors. My
>suspicion is that they would work fine, but I don't want to spoil a
>perfectly good recipe!
Your supposition is probably correct, but let's leave the
1K resistors in place, eliminate the LED's and then tie
your off-the-shelf indicators in PARALLEL with the 1K
resistors. VERY low risk there.
---> I decided it is just as easy to stick with the original design. I also
have some LED mounts that are more compact and will provide a cleaner look.
I'll be putting some time into the development of about
a dozen new AEC products. Your assistance in doing the
proof of concept work on this project suggests that
perhaps the IVO Prop Electronic CB should be one of
those products.
---> I certainly agree! I'll bet the folks at IVO would be interested.
Everyone who has an IVO should be interested!
I appreciate your time and interest in this activity.
---> Well, I was the one who asked for help. And within a week I had an
operational solution in the reed switch. Now I have an electronic solution
that is operationally foolproof. A pretty good investment in time and
interest in my book, and a lot of fun to boot!
Thanks,
Dennis
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
Aargh!
I hate arguing with common sense and good design when I've spent all that time
making that cute little panel.
But your reasoning is hard to refute.
Honestly I got so caught up in making this cool fuse panel and getting 30 fuses
in a tight pattern that I overlooked the fact that I was going to have a whole
nest of hot wires to deal with.
Just have to get used to not being able to see my fuses and comfort myself with
fewer parts count and fewer constructed joints. And ditto on the battery bus.
It's moving back to the battery.
Again thanks for taking the time to explain all this. I makes it a little easier
to throw that fuse panel into the trash.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299702#299702
Message 20
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.
The
complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains AeroElectric-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the AeroElectric-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the AeroElectric-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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