Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:40 AM - Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (James Kilford)
2. 05:40 AM - Europa electrics (mike gamble)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:41 AM - Flying on the edge of wetness (Larry McFarland)
5. 08:51 AM - wireing a ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom 403MC (gordon)
6. 11:09 AM - Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (earl_schroeder@juno.com)
7. 01:10 PM - Europa electrics (mike gamble)
8. 02:23 PM - Re: Long and short hot feeders (rckol)
9. 04:52 PM - Re: Europa electrics (rampil)
10. 04:52 PM - Re: Europa electrics (rampil)
11. 05:40 PM - Wires going to CB question (rparigoris)
12. 06:33 PM - Re: Flying on the edge of wetness (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: Long and short hot feeders (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:57 PM - labeling panel (bob noffs)
15. 08:24 PM - Re: Wires going to CB question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 08:58 PM - Re: The state of the industry (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
Gents,
In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
tool onboard the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
So far, I've taken his latter view on board -- make a nice simple
electric scheme, and then if things go awry, switch to e-bus. I then
know I have n hours of time to run a few essential items -- more than
enough to get on the ground, and most probably get to my home
airfield. The scheme, incidentally, is Z11.
Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter. After all,
the LV warning's going to flash away pretty soon, should the
alternator pack up.
Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks in anticipation,
James
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Europa electrics |
Europa xs +912s. (Preparing for first engine start)
Wired up and powered by 12v external source I select master on and note 12
volts on the meter. I then select alternator on and nothing happens. Should
I not get an alt warning light in this situation with regulator providing an
earth return to the warning light? I do have 12v at the C terminal and at
the +ve side of the capacitor.
Comments please.
Mike
G-CFMP
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
tool on board the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
So far, I've taken his latter view on board -- make a nice simple
electric scheme, and then if things go awry, switch to e-bus. I then
know I have n hours of time to run a few essential items -- more than
enough to get on the ground, and most probably get to my home
airfield. The scheme, incidentally, is Z11.
Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter. After all,
the LV warning's going to flash away pretty soon, should the
alternator pack up.
Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
appreciated.
Sure. But only because you've taken the time
to study, understand, and craft a process by
which you're going to build, operate and maintain
your airplane. Instruments are for telling you
things you do not know or have not planned for.
Limiting your in-flight accessibility to real-time
amps and volts is a perfectly rational design goal
when the system is failure tolerant and backed up
with a battery of known endurance. Confidence is
a great mitigator of uncertainty.
Bob . . .
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Flying on the edge of wetness |
Hi Guys,
I fly mostly good weather, but theres been a few times Ive had to fly
thru light showers to get home. The greater concern is getting into too
much rain. Id think this was possible, but a few of our Chapter 75 have
flown in a car wash type rain that put them on the gages for a few
minutes. Does anyone know the limits of the ignition system wires and
spark plugs? I fly the Stratus Subaru in my 601 and am just now looking
at my plugs and wires and wondering if theres much difference between
wet aircraft plugs and mine. Anyone knowledgeable?
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | wireing a ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom 403MC |
Has any one had success wireing up a new ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom
403 voice activated intercom? After reading some of the problems
posted last July and some having problems with the intercom function of
the radio I have decided I would like to use my Flightcom that worked
fine with my Val 760. The Val gave me so much trouble over about
6 years that I removed it for the ICOM. Sure would apprecite any
suggestions on wireing them together. Thanks Gordon
--------
tailwind10
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299869#299869
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: James Kilford <james@etravel.org>
>In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
>tool onboard the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
>espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
>Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter.
>Is this approach a good one?
I do have ammeters and use them for cross checking my tired memory. For instance,
if I neglect to turn off the boost pump, landing light etc when my cross check
scan gets to the ammeter, I notice a higher than normal current consumption
which (from experience) shifts my attention to the forgotten item. I can usually
tell by the indicated draw which item needs attention. A small relay in
parallel with the starter solenoid switch opens the meter circuit when starting.
BTW, my ammeter is a sensitive analog voltmeter (50 millivolt FS) connected across
the heavy wire from the alternator to the bus. (fuse protected and sizing
resistor - with the idea borrowed a Jim Weir's forum at Oshkosh) I have another
across the heavy wire from the battery which should be zero (actually below)
during flight and an operating alternator.. neither of these are calibrated
and used only for reference. A black mark on the scale near 'normal' is easily
used for a verifying glance as the mark 'hides' the red meter pointer.
I use the same meters for CHT, EGT, fuel press etc with the black marks allowing
control-by-deviation. This phrase borrowed from Fisher controls I used at GE
Plastics years ago..
That said, I agree that trouble shooting is best left to ground bound vehicles.
do not archive
Earl
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Europa electrics |
Europa xs +912s. (Preparing for first engine start)
Wired up and powered by 12v external source I select master on and note 12
volts on the meter. I then select alternator on and nothing happens. Should
I not get an alt warning light in this situation with regulator providing an
earth return? I do have 12v at the C terminal and at the +ve side of the
capacitor.
Comments please.
Mike
G-CFMP
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
John,
It looks like you are going to change course here based on Bob's advice, so this
information may not be needed but, I noticed yesterday that SteinAir is selling
bus bar/terminal strips with 10 terminals each on them that could probably
be used to feed your fuse holders, if they were located in close proximity to
your fuse holders.
http://www.steinair.com/strips.htm
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299921#299921
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
Mike,
You have not described how your Europa is wired, and especially where
and how you have an "Alt Warning Lamp" set up.
Is your aircraft wired per Kirbymoorside, or per an Aeroelectric
scheme?
Have you wired a lamp to the regulator terminal for just such a lamp or is the
warning to be driven from elsewhere?
Did you use an LED or an incandescent lamp?
Ira A224 flying 6 years
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299943#299943
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
Mike,
You have not described how your Europa is wired, and especially where
and how you have an "Alt Warning Lamp" set up.
Is your aircraft wired per Kirbymoorside, or per an Aeroelectric
scheme?
Have you wired a lamp to the regulator terminal for just such a lamp or is the
warning to be driven from elsewhere?
Did you use an LED or an incandescent lamp?
Ira A224 flying 6 years
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299944#299944
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wires going to CB question |
Reading "The Aeroelectric Connection" Chapter on Circuit Protection, stated is
to not use the Circuit Breaker screws that mounts to bus to also connect inter-bus
jumpers or main power feed lines. "These things should get their own 8-32
fasteners."
I have 2 question:
1) I have a mini e-bus on passenger headrest that will never see more than 15 amps.
It consists of 3 P+B CBs. Can I feed this bus with ring terminal under the
head of one of the CB screws that mounts to the bus?
2) I need to take off a wire from this e-bus that will immediately go to a 2 amp
in line fuse to power my variometer, can I take power off e-bus through a ring
terminal under the head of one of the CB screws that mounts to the bus?
This goes against what is stated in AC, but I am thinking perhaps it was stated
considering there may be more amps than 10 or 1.
Bus bar is silver plated copper.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299951#299951
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flying on the edge of wetness |
At 08:18 AM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
><larry@macsmachine.com>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I fly mostly good weather, but there's been a few times I've had to
>fly thru light showers to get home. The greater concern is getting
>into too much rain. I'd think this was possible, but a few of our
>Chapter 75 have flown in a "car wash" type rain that put them on the
>gages for a few minutes. Does anyone know the limits of the ignition
>system wires and spark plugs? I fly the Stratus Subaru in my 601 and
>am just now looking at my plugs and wires and wondering if there's
>much difference between wet aircraft plugs and mine. Anyone knowledgeable?
My 'test for condition' for refurbishment
of the ignition wiring and distributor
cap on by '59 Chevy was to go into the car
wash and clean the engine with high pressure
soapy water followed by a good rinse . . .
and don't spare the wiring. Get down around
plugs real good too.
When things were as they should be, I could
close the hood, hop in and smoothly drive
away. That would have been in 1965 or so.
My sense is that if your wiring is still
"flexible" meaning that the seal between
boots and the objects they cover is good,
the wiring will be exceedingly resistant to
the effects of accelerated rain drops. That
doesn't mean that OTHER engine accessories
are equally rain resistant . . . but I think
your ignition wires are the least of your
concerns.
Bob . . .
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 04:21 PM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
>
>John,
>
>It looks like you are going to change course here based on Bob's
>advice, so this information may not be needed but, I noticed
>yesterday that SteinAir is selling bus bar/terminal strips with 10
>terminals each on them that could probably be used to feed your fuse
>holders, if they were located in close proximity to your fuse holders.
>
>http://www.steinair.com/strips.htm
Hmmmm . . . I cannot imagine where those would
be used. Further, they feature non-locking, threaded
fasteners.
When such devices are called for in TC aircraft (rarely)
they look more like this . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Terminal_Strip_Captive_Stud.jpg
Note the captive treaded studs with LOCKING hardware.
I need to go back and look up that installation in the wire
books. In the picture above we see a mix of wire guages
which makes me wonder if it's a ground bus. Otherwise,
one would be hard pressed to provide appropriate
fuse/breaker protection for the wires serviced by
the bus.
In any case, if one truly needs such a bus, then
drill and tap a copper bar for at least 8-32 (10-32
better) screws. Thread in from back side and captivate
screws to bus bar with JB weld under head of screws
and last few threads under head. Torque well.
Terminal faces on wires go right against the bar and
against each other on the stud side. Cap of with a flat
washer and well torqued locking nut. If you need to
insulate the assembly from ground, then some work on
a saw and drill press will carve out a piece of
phenolic, delrin, lexan or perhaps even some cutting board
stock.
Bob . . .
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
hi all,
i am ready to label switches etc. on my grey panel. i am using white
letters on a clear tape. what works best to keep the tapes ''level''?
masking tape or a light pencil mark maybe? how far below the switch as a
rule of thumb? and the best way to remove the pencil line if that is the way
to go?
any info appreciated. bob noffs
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wires going to CB question |
At 07:38 PM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
><rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Reading "The Aeroelectric Connection" Chapter on Circuit Protection,
>stated is to not use the Circuit Breaker screws that mounts to bus
>to also connect inter-bus jumpers or main power feed lines. "These
>things should get their own 8-32 fasteners."
>
>I have 2 question:
>1) I have a mini e-bus on passenger headrest that will never see
>more than 15 amps. It consists of 3 P+B CBs. Can I feed this bus
>with ring terminal under the head of one of the CB screws that
>mounts to the bus?
>2) I need to take off a wire from this e-bus that will immediately
>go to a 2 amp in line fuse to power my variometer, can I take power
>off e-bus through a ring terminal under the head of one of the CB
>screws that mounts to the bus?
>
>This goes against what is stated in AC, but I am thinking perhaps it
>was stated considering there may be more amps than 10 or 1.
>
>Bus bar is silver plated copper.
The idea for a bus bar is to offer contiguous electrical connection
from some feeder to an array of tap-offs that feed breakers or
fuses using techniques that minimize single points of failure.
This design goal suggests that if you can stamp or otherwise
fabricate a bus from a single piece of metal, the design goal
is met. When the "bus" is two rows, then some means for inter
connection the rows must be devised. Certainly, strapping
between the rows with a similar piece of metal - each end
enjoying a SOLID connection (solder, steel fastener with
locking hardware, etc. then the design goal has been
faithfully observed.
Having said that, we can peek behind the breaker panel
on a contemporary A36 Bonanza and see this:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Breaker_Panel_Busing_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Breaker_Panel_Busing_2.jpg
. . . here we observe specially fabricated inter-bus jumpers
crafted from some rather robust material fitted on each
end with equally robust flags that have been hard-soldered.
These particular assemblies attach with the non-locking, threaded
fasteners SHARED with the upstream side of a breaker. Hmmmm . . .
they've been doing this for decades . . . if it's good for an
A36 it's probably good for an RV7. But it DOES offer single
points of multiple failures due to loosening of non-secured
fasteners.
So here the design goals I cited above were not observed. At the
same time, out of many thousands of aircraft involved, we've
probably not heard about a situation (if any) where the
loosening of one non-locking screw affected several systems.
I don't know the 'chefs' who crafted this recipe for success
but the risks for adopting their philosophy is demonstrably low.
I cannot offer a powerful argument for observing the former
design goal over that used on the A36 except that it's not hard
to do and has a logical rationale for implementation based on
the same rationale that drove fabrication and assembly of the
terminal-strip bus discussed in an earlier posting this
evening.
It's your kitchen . . .
Bob . . .
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: The state of the industry |
>
>It is the attitude that counts the most!
>
>I sure DO NOT have an answer, but I think we aviators need to be the
>ones who make the decisions, not a bunch of ivory tower sideliners.
This phenomenon is present throughout most
if not all technology based services and
industries. There's a growing trend in belief
that if you can write, administrate and enforce
the right policies, then all will be right
with the world.
Virtually ALL the companies that offered me
opportunity to grow in skill and understanding
no longer avail themselves of those exact same
skill-sets nurtured by an 'obsolete' business
model that made my own career possible.
I could not hire into Hawker-Beech as an engineer
today. New policy. I CAN contract as a technical
services specialist . . . at a rate considerably
higher than I made there while wearing a badge
that called me engineer! I think I like being
a TSS better!
The phenomenon is endemic to the culture.
Folks in positions of power have been
given or have assumed control over skill-
sets they do not personally possess nor
understand. Bureaucratic organized stagnation
is replacing entrepreneurial spontaneous
order.
This is being demonstrated throughout the
full spectrum of those who would call
themselves leader and/or crafter of a
successful business model in our nation.
The counter-productive effort of elitist
leadership has exerted a strangle-hold on
independently self sufficient persons in
many societies for hundreds of years. It's
our turn in the barrel.
The over worked, under trained ATP pilot has many
counterparts in every industry. Unfortunately,
it may require a game-changing and devastating
event before it turns around . . . and
only if opportunities for the truly productive
are not quashed.
If aviation for the ordinary citizen recovers,
it will be from the efforts of folks like those
on the Lists. Even the EAA, for all it's facility,
programs and cash flow will have little if
anything to do with a new future of aviation.
If we want little airplanes to be around for
our grandchildren, YOU and I and our FRIENDS
are going to have to do it.
>
>Flame away at will my friends, but that is the way I see it!
Your vision may be a scene from your worst nightmare
but it's not a hallucination. The things
you've observed are demonstrably common
EVERYWHERE.
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>(soloed 64 years ago this month)
Younger Bob . . .
(soloed on Memorial Day 29 years ago)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|