---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/04/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:47 AM - Re: labeling panel () 2. 07:31 AM - Re: Europa electrics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:34 AM - Re: wireing a ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom 403MC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:51 AM - Re: Long and short hot feeders (jonlaury) 5. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Speaking of soldering - Source Location (jerb) 6. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Long and short hot feeders (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 7. 09:27 AM - Re: labeling panel (jonlaury) 8. 10:33 AM - Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (Speedy11@aol.com) 9. 10:51 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 (Speedy11@aol.com) 10. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: labeling panel (David LLoyd) 11. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 12. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Europa electrics (mike gamble) 13. 04:57 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 (mmayfield) 14. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 (ray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: labeling panel From: Bob, It depends. If you have room set a laser level next to the panel. You could also you a chalk line (that's what I did). My problem is my fingers are still crooked. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:56 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: labeling panel hi all, i am ready to label switches etc. on my grey panel. i am using white letters on a clear tape. what works best to keep the tapes ''level''? masking tape or a light pencil mark maybe? how far below the switch as a rule of thumb? and the best way to remove the pencil line if that is the way to go? any info appreciated. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Europa electrics At 03:08 PM 6/3/2010, you wrote: >Europa xs +912s. (Preparing for first engine start) > Wired up and powered by 12v external source I select master on and > note 12 volts on the meter. I then select alternator on and nothing > happens. Should I not get an alt warning light in this situation > with regulator providing an earth return? I do have 12v at the C > terminal and at the +ve side of the capacitor. >Comments please. The alternator warning light built into rectifier/regulators (on pm alternators) and into the regulator of internally regulated alternators is not generally an all-inclusive indicator of alternator functionality. Suggest you consider some form of active notification of low voltage at the bus for a definitive alternator monitoring system. This may be built into one of your off-the-shelf instruments. It can be easily added in the form of a device like . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf or http://www.periheliondesign.com/lvwaabm.htm or http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproductsfiles/LV_Annunciator%20Manual.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wireing a ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom 403MC At 10:49 AM 6/3/2010, you wrote: > >Has any one had success wireing up a new ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom >403 voice activated intercom? After reading some of the problems >posted last July and some having problems with the intercom function of >the radio I have decided I would like to use my Flightcom that worked >fine with my Val 760. The Val gave me so much trouble over about >6 years that I removed it for the ICOM. Sure would apprecite any >suggestions on wireing them together. Thanks Gordon I'm not aware of any unique integration condition for pairing the A210 Icom with the 403 Flightcom. The microphone inputs and headset outputs of aircraft radios fall within legacy interface standards that make any radio compatible with any artfully designed intercom. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:04 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Long and short hot feeders From: "jonlaury" Rckol, Thanks for the heads up. But yes, now that I've gotten unstuck on my idea, light is streaming down from the heavens, angelic trumpets are sounding along with a chorus of Hosanna's and fuse blocks have acquired a golden glow. All I had to do is let go of the idea of being able to see all my fuses. Probably will do some sort of blown fuse indicator LED instead, but that's a project for after I'm airborne. John Do not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300027#300027 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:26 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Speaking of soldering - Source Location Robert Is the tiny link you posted to the actual ebay seller you used. I see your tiny link actually references a seller located and shipping from Taiwan. Generally I found the quality of Tools made in Taiwan to be much better than anything from main land China. (Twenty years ago most of Harbor Freight tools came from Taiwan - today most of their products are from China with varying quality.) The info below is copied from site referenced by the tiny link Robert posted: Beware, when purchasing items located outside the USA, all the statements below can be true. Robert, could you possibility look back into your ebay history and see if you still have the sellers id or the auction number of your purchase - if you got yours in a moderate time and no additional customs or processing charges that would be the source to buy from. Thanks jerb Shipment International Buyers Please Note: Please kindly check the shipping cost with us. Import duties, taxes, insurance and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyers responsibility. Please check with your countrys customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding/buying. Hotery is not responsible for service transit time. This information is provided by the carrier and excludes weekends and holidays. Note that transit times may vary, particularly during peak periods At 09:41 AM 6/2/2010, you wrote: >At 08:10 AM 6/2/2010, you wrote: >>Hello Bob, >> >>What was the product you purchased? > > Sorry, here's one of several offerings for the > tool on Ebay. > >http://tinyurl.com/278pb3w > > Bill makes an important point. This critter is > an ignition hazard so be cognizant of the working > environment. Combustible liquids with low > vapor pressures are especially hazardous. I keep > cans of "carburetor cleaner" (really a kind of lacquer > thinner in a aerosol can) around for little shots > of de-greasing agent. It avoids having spillable > containers of the stuff around and limits the > amount and duration of combustible mix in the air. > > Also, you DO want to check for effective shut-off > for gas flow. I've had a few tools over the years > that would leak out in the toolbox . . . but this > is rare. You can charge your new tool and just let > it set for a goodly amount of time and make sure > it's tight. You can perhaps smell gas flows that are > too small to hear. > > Bob . . . > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:54 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Long and short hot feeders But yes, now that I've gotten unstuck on my idea, light is streaming down from the heavens, angelic trumpets are sounding along with a chorus of Hosanna's and fuse blocks have acquired a golden glow. All I had to do is let go of the idea of being able to see all my fuses. Probably will do some sort of blown fuse indicator LED instead, but that's a project for after I'm airborne. John And that is the "Hot Feeders Long and Short of it" Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: labeling panel From: "jonlaury" Bob, Consider making your own decals. There are internet offerings for water-slide decal paper, on which you can print any lable you like from your computer printer. And then overspray with a clear acrylic. I had problems using laser printed decals, so I'd go with ink jet. The Laser toner is essentially melted crayon (wax) and the clear sprays shrink away from it. Also, there is a product called EZScreenPrint (ezscreenprint.com), which is a silk screening process. I just received it so I'll post my experience with it in the next few days. It uses a frameless screen that you can put your artwork on and then tape in place and squeegee paint through. It is the most durable way to go, but a little more involved. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300035#300035 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:21 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics James, Design your electrical system to make you comfortable. If you are happy with Z-11, then use it. Realize that you can monitor amps and volts and still rely on your plan B. Personally, (17k hours in mil, airline, GA (owned 9-built 1), 98% of time in VMC) I prefer having information in my cockpit. I cannot make decisions without information. Any plan B, whether electric-related or not, cannot make decisions for me. As PIC, I have to make decisions - and I need information to make decisions. In my RV-8A, I display and monitor amps at two locations and voltage on the main and standby busses. I guess I'm a control freak, but when it comes to being PIC, that could be a good thing. Bob N has bucket loads of electrical knowledge and my hat is off to him for sharing with and educating ignorant people like myself. But, when it comes to operating an airplane, I differ with his opinion. I prefer to have more, not less, information in my cockpit. What one does with that information is another story - and that is where Bob's concept comes into play. He indicates that pilots should not use information about their electrical system to make assessments or decisions while airborne. Bob advocates having an electrical plan B that removes the PIC from the airborne decision process. As you clearly explained, the intent is to make electrical problems idiot-proof. Nothing wrong with that as it can make aviation safer and simpler. But, the pilot in me wants information. For me, more information is better. You can build Z-11 and still display electrical information in the cockpit. The displayed electrical information may do nothing more than confirm what the flashing LV/OV light is telling you. Build it how you like it. Regards, Stan Sutterfield _www.rv-8a.net_ (http://www.rv-8a.net) do not archive Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though? Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly appreciated. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:41 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 Bob, Very well said. Unfortunately, your comments apply equally to our national leadership. Stan Sutterfield Do not archive This phenomenon is present throughout most if not all technology based services and industries. There's a growing trend in belief that if you can write, administrate and enforce the right policies, then all will be right with the world. Virtually ALL the companies that offered me opportunity to grow in skill and understanding no longer avail themselves of those exact same skill-sets nurtured by an 'obsolete' business model that made my own career possible. I could not hire into Hawker-Beech as an engineer today. New policy. I CAN contract as a technical services specialist . . . at a rate considerably higher than I made there while wearing a badge that called me engineer! I think I like being a TSS better! The phenomenon is endemic to the culture. Folks in positions of power have been given or have assumed control over skill- sets they do not personally possess nor understand. Bureaucratic organized stagnation is replacing entrepreneurial spontaneous order. This is being demonstrated throughout the full spectrum of those who would call themselves leader and/or crafter of a successful business model in our nation. The counter-productive effort of elitist leadership has exerted a strangle-hold on independently self sufficient persons in many societies for hundreds of years. It's our turn in the barrel. The over worked, under trained ATP pilot has many counterparts in every industry. Unfortunately, it may require a game-changing and devastating event before it turns around . . . and only if opportunities for the truly productive are not quashed. If aviation for the ordinary citizen recovers, it will be from the efforts of folks like those on the Lists. Even the EAA, for all it's facility, programs and cash flow will have little if anything to do with a new future of aviation. If we want little airplanes to be around for our grandchildren, YOU and I and our FRIENDS are going to have to do it. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:16 AM PST US From: "David LLoyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: labeling panel John, I for one will be very interested in more of your detailed comments concerning panel marking processes. Thanks for the tips.... David ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonlaury" Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:26 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: labeling panel > > Bob, > Consider making your own decals. There are internet offerings for > water-slide decal paper, on which you can print any lable you like from > your computer printer. And then overspray with a clear acrylic. I had > problems using laser printed decals, so I'd go with ink jet. The Laser > toner is essentially melted crayon (wax) and the clear sprays shrink away > from it. > > Also, there is a product called EZScreenPrint (ezscreenprint.com), which > is a silk screening process. I just received it so I'll post my experience > with it in the next few days. It uses a frameless screen that you can put > your artwork on and then tape in place and squeegee paint through. It is > the most durable way to go, but a little more involved. > > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300035#300035 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:24 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 Bob, Very well said. Unfortunately, your comments apply equally to our national leadership. Stan Sutterfield Stan, Bob, I certainly hope that enough people in our Great and Wonderful Nation, realize where we are headed and reverse this path to Social, moral, and economic demise. Roger Do not archive This phenomenon is present throughout most if not all technology based services and industries. There's a growing trend in belief that if you can write, administrate and enforce the right policies, then all will be right with the world. Virtually ALL the companies that offered me opportunity to grow in skill and understanding no longer avail themselves of those exact same skill-sets nurtured by an 'obsolete' business model that made my own career possible. I could not hire into Hawker-Beech as an engineer today. New policy. I CAN contract as a technical services specialist . . . at a rate considerably higher than I made there while wearing a badge that called me engineer! I think I like being a TSS better! The phenomenon is endemic to the culture. Folks in positions of power have been given or have assumed control over skill- sets they do not personally possess nor understand. Bureaucratic organized stagnation is replacing entrepreneurial spontaneous order. This is being demonstrated throughout the full spectrum of those who would call themselves leader and/or crafter of a successful business model in our nation. The counter-productive effort of elitist leadership has exerted a strangle-hold on independently self sufficient persons in many societies for hundreds of years. It's our turn in the barrel. The over worked, under trained ATP pilot has many counterparts in every industry. Unfortunately, it may require a game-changing and devastating event before it turns around . . . and only if opportunities for the truly productive are not quashed. If aviation for the ordinary citizen recovers, it will be from the efforts of folks like those on the Lists. Even the EAA, for all it's facility, programs and cash flow will have little if anything to do with a new future of aviation. If we want little airplanes to be around for our grandchildren, YOU and I and our FRIENDS are going to have to do it. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:17 PM PST US From: "mike gamble" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Europa electrics Ira, I have followed the wiring diagram in the manual using a filament lamp as demanded. I shall recheck the circuits tomorrow, particularly the grounding of the rectifier, and report back. Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299943#299943 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:48 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 From: "mmayfield" Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now eliciting purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list? Political views among ordinary folk vary widely. I honestly don't come the Aeroelectric List to read tales of woe about how someone feels regarding a particular flavour of Government. There is plenty of freedom to express those opinions elsewhere where they might be more in keeping with another forum style. Mike :x Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300089#300089 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:55 PM PST US From: ray Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 Second that!!! Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN do not archive mmayfield wrote: > > Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now eliciting purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list? > > Political views among ordinary folk vary widely. I honestly don't come the Aeroelectric List to read tales of woe about how someone feels regarding a particular flavour of Government. There is plenty of freedom to express those opinions elsewhere where they might be more in keeping with another forum style. > > Mike > > :x > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300089#300089 > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.