Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:57 AM - Re: Europa electrics (rampil)
2. 08:24 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/04/10 (Speedy11@aol.com)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/04/10 (RGent1224@aol.com)
4. 05:36 PM - Re: labeling panel (James Kilford)
5. 05:38 PM - Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (James Kilford)
6. 05:45 PM - Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (James Kilford)
7. 05:52 PM - Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics (James Kilford)
8. 06:07 PM - PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio signals (James Kilford)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
Hi Mike,
First, be careful, the figure showing the regulator pin out in the latest
version of the Rotax Install manual is incorrect. That would be figure
17-69 where the leftmost R pin is actually the L.
The L pin is simply a point with floats essentially unconnected, until
there is adequate voltage on the C line, then L is grounded through a
3.3k ohm resistor. That should then complete the circuit from +12
thought the lamp and resistor (and a FET) to ground.
One might suppose the C voltage threshold should be over 13V, but I
don't have the spec.
The lamp should work as you suspect as per Phil Lockwood.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300109#300109
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/04/10 |
Err, no chance.
Stan Sutterfield
Daytona Beach
Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now
eliciting
purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/04/10 |
Just hit your Delete Button
In a message dated 6/5/2010 10:25:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Speedy11@aol.com writes:
Err, no chance.
Stan Sutterfield
Daytona Beach
Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now
eliciting
purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list?
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: labeling panel |
Bob,
If you're not already committed to panel labelling... I've had really
neat results using custom Letraset. I don't know if you have this
stuff where you are -- it's rub-on lettering in sheets. Anyway, they
also do custom sheets. You upload your artwork and they send you a
sheet of transfers. Brilliant stuff.
It's not cheap -- about =C2=A375 for an A4 sheet -- but then again it's
probably a lot cheaper than custom engraving, say. I fitted all the
panel lettering, warnings, reference speeds, lines, boxes, placards,
etc. onto one sheet.
http://www.letraset.com/design/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=130&cat=Colou
r
(Photo of switch panel attached FYI)
Once you've applied the lettering, etc., a coat of lacquer fixes the
transfers.
James
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 2:56 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi all,
> =C2- i am ready to label switches etc. on my grey panel. i am using whi
te
> letters on a clear tape. what works best to keep the tapes ''level''?
> masking tape or a light pencil mark=C2- maybe? how far below the switch
as a
> rule of thumb? and the best way to remove the pencil line if that is the
way
> to go?
> =C2-any info appreciated. bob noffs
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
Bob,
Thanks for the advice. To be honest, now the plane is getting close
to flying, I'm having a lot of second thoughts about everything...
James
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
> tool on board the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
> espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
>
> So far, I've taken his latter view on board -- make a nice simple
> electric scheme, and then if things go awry, switch to e-bus. I then
> know I have n hours of time to run a few essential items -- more than
> enough to get on the ground, and most probably get to my home
> airfield. The scheme, incidentally, is Z11.
>
> Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter. After all,
> the LV warning's going to flash away pretty soon, should the
> alternator pack up.
>
> Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
> daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
> fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
> Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Sure. But only because you've taken the time
> to study, understand, and craft a process by
> which you're going to build, operate and maintain
> your airplane. Instruments are for telling you
> things you do not know or have not planned for.
>
> Limiting your in-flight accessibility to real-time
> amps and volts is a perfectly rational design goal
> when the system is failure tolerant and backed up
> with a battery of known endurance. Confidence is
> a great mitigator of uncertainty.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
Earl,
That's a good point. I seem to spend half my flying time with flaps
down, or fuel pump on! As it happens, I've taken steps on this front
and have some warning lights for the things I usually forget. I also
have a countdown timer to remind me to do stuff every n minutes too...
just as a precaution!
James
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 7:02 PM, earl_schroeder@juno.com
<earl_schroeder@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>>---------- Original Message ----------
>>From: James Kilford <james@etravel.org>
>
>>In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
>>tool onboard the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
>>espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
>
>>Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter.
>
>>Is this approach a good one?
>
> I do have ammeters and use them for cross checking my tired memory. For instance,
if I neglect to turn off the boost pump, landing light etc when my cross
check scan gets to the ammeter, I notice a higher than normal current consumption
which (from experience) shifts my attention to the forgotten item. I can usually
tell by the indicated draw which item needs attention. A small relay in
parallel with the starter solenoid switch opens the meter circuit when starting.
>
> BTW, my ammeter is a sensitive analog voltmeter (50 millivolt FS) connected across
the heavy wire from the alternator to the bus. (fuse protected and sizing
resistor - with the idea borrowed a Jim Weir's forum at Oshkosh) I have another
across the heavy wire from the battery which should be zero (actually below)
during flight and an operating alternator.. neither of these are calibrated
and used only for reference. A black mark on the scale near 'normal' is easily
used for a verifying glance as the mark 'hides' the red meter pointer.
>
> I use the same meters for CHT, EGT, fuel press etc with the black marks allowing
control-by-deviation. This phrase borrowed from Fisher controls I used at
GE Plastics years ago..
>
> That said, I agree that trouble shooting is best left to ground bound vehicles.
>
> do not archive
> Earl
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
Stan,
Thanks for your considered advice. It's interesting stuff, and I
definitely take your point about it. I suppose that for the moment
I'm going to be flying fairly short flights, in fair weather, so the
lack of information, and resorting to plan B, won't be too much of a
problem. I completely understand your requirements for more
information though, and perhaps I'll start to think that way as time
goes by and I become more experienced.
James
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:26 PM, <Speedy11@aol.com> wrote:
>
> James,
> Design your electrical system to make you comfortable. If you are happy
> with Z-11, then use it.
> Realize that you can monitor amps and volts and still rely on your plan B.
> Personally, (17k hours in mil, airline, GA (owned 9-built 1), 98% of time in
> VMC) I prefer having information in my cockpit. I cannot make decisions
> without information. Any plan B, whether electric-related or not, cannot
> make decisions for me. As PIC, I have to make decisions - and I need
> information to make decisions.
> In my RV-8A, I display and monitor amps at two locations and voltage on the
> main and standby busses. I guess I'm a control freak, but when it comes to
> being PIC, that could be a good thing.
> Bob N has bucket loads of electrical knowledge and my hat is off to him for
> sharing withand educating ignorant people like myself. But, when it comes
> to operating an airplane, I differ with his opinion. I prefer to have more,
> not less, information in my cockpit.
> What one does with that information is another story - and that is where
> Bob's concept comes into play. He indicates that pilots should not use
> information about their electrical system to make assessments or decisions
> while airborne. Bob advocates having an electricalplan B that removes the
> PIC from the airborne decision process. As you clearly explained, the
> intent is to make electrical problems idiot-proof. Nothing wrong with that
> as it can make aviation safer and simpler.
> But, the pilot in me wants information. For me, more information isbetter.
> You can build Z-11 and still display electrical information in the cockpit.
> The displayed electrical informationmay do nothing more thanconfirm what
> the flashing LV/OV light is telling you.
> Build it how you like it.
> Regards,
> Stan Sutterfield
> www.rv-8a.net
> do not archive
>
> Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
> daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
> fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
> Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
> appreciated.
Message 8
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| Subject: | PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio signals |
Gents,
I had been wondering, for some time, what to do about the PolyFiber
PolySpray coats. PolySpray is a metal-loaded paint that is used to
protect PolyFiber fabric from UV damage.
I'd wanted to put all the aerials inside my fuselage, but was
concerned that the PolySpray would attenuate radio signals to/from
COM, NAV, GPS (especially) and XPNDR. PolyFiber's own advice was to
put the aerials outside the fuselage, and to definitely use the
PolySpray coating, to ensure longevity of fabric (apparently the
PolySpray increases the fabric's life 4-fold!).
To cut a long story short, I decided to chance it -- with PolySpray
and internal aerials -- and see what happened, figuring that I could
move the aerials outside the fuselage if necessary.
Today, I did tests to see if the aerials function as I would wish, and
they did. The PolySpray coats appear to have made no difference to
the signals -- even the presumably very small GPS signal. I don't
have anything in the way of scientific instruments, just the signal
strength shown on the GPS and hand-held radio, but using the
fuselage-mounted aerials makes no discernible difference to the signal
strength compared to the equipment's own aerials. I've yet to test
the NAV / XPNDR aerials, but I assume the same will hold true for
those too.
FWIW!
James
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