Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Re: labeling panel (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Reverse Current - Life Is Indeed Harder When You're Stupid (user9253)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators or Dynamo (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:19 AM - Re: Active Notification of Low Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Reverse Current - Life Is Indeed Harder When You're Stupid (Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc.)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Panel Labeling (Tim Andres)
7. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Panel Labeling (Richard Tasker)
8. 07:12 PM - Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question (Sam Hoskins)
9. 08:08 PM - Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question (Tim Andres)
10. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Panel Labeling (Tim Andres)
11. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Panel Labeling (Richard E. Tasker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: labeling panel |
Geoff,
I will have to take some and get them to you.
Bill B
Bill,
Please post on the forum. I'm sure others are also
interested.
Roger
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Current - Life Is Indeed Harder When You're |
Stupid
Reverse polarity will not affect a contactor coil but will damage a diode connected
across the contactor coil. Assuming that the main contactor pulled in despite
the shorted diode in parallel with it, then the starter contactor diode
and alternator rectifying diodes were also shorted out and damaged along with
any other polarity sensitive devices that were turned on.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301277#301277
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators or Dynamo |
At 05:43 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
In the AEC writings, Matronics postings and Z figures I see
references to Permanent Magnet Alternators and Dynamos. Are they one
in the same; is the physics basically the same? For instance in a
Rotax or Jabiru system with a stator being energized by magnets on
the flywheel technically the same as a B&C SD-8?
Yes . . .
Can regulators for these systems be substituted and crisscrossed? I
see where you have illustrated the use of a AM 101406 John Deere
Regulator for the Z-9 Corvair system. I also recollect discussions
about using of this same regulator as a more robust substitution for
the Rotax Ducati and the Jabiru supplied regulator. Following this
line of thought, could the AM 101406 be used also with the SD-8?
Probably but with limits. Unlike wound-field alternators
wherein vertually all brands of every size draw
no more than 3-4 amps of field current, rectifier/
regulators for PM alternators must carry ALL of
the machine's output current. Therefore, while a
larger r/r for the 30A J-D machine may work well
with the SD-8, the converse is not true.
In the Z figures that incorporate Dynamos, I see some variables. I
can't quite understand the reasons for some of them.
Some systems incorporate a self-excitation feature such as
illustrated in Z-25. When is this recommended? Should it be used
with the Jabiru or Rotax charging system?
The self-excitation feature was crafted for
those who were concerned about delayed reaction
(like hours?) for getting the SD-8 stand-by
power source turned on to support a system
that was now being fed by a dead battery. It's
a kind of band-aid for not have crafted and/or
timely implementation of plan-B.
Where the PM alternator is your primary power
source, the utility of a self-exitation feature
is still more diminished. So, no. If the feature
is not included on any particular drawing, it's
value is considered too low to be useful.
Shut down control of these systems generally incorporate a S704-1
relay with a OVM-14 crowbar over voltage module (or AEC9024) across
the coil terminals. In some Z figures this S704-1 also utilizes a
diode across the coil and some don't. Does the internal electronics
of the OVM-14 or AEC9024 preclude the use of such a diode in some cases?
The diode can be included in all cases and
serves some utility for increasing life
of the controlling switch but yes, it's
less necessary when the OVM-14 is part of
the coil control circuit. The 9024 has the
diode mounted on the board.
The S704-1 relay is employed sometimes in one of the legs of the
Dynamo before the regulator and sometimes in the regulator output to
the main bus. What is the reason behind this decision?
Putting the relay downstream of the r/r only
disconnts it from the airplane and MIGHT
allow a damaged r/r to continue to take
energy from the dynamo and suffer further
damage. Shutting down from the power INPUT
side to the r/r brings everything to a graceful
state of being when the alternator control
switch is OFF>
In some Z figures the sense for the regulator is tied directly to the
regular 12V.DC output and in others it comes from the main bus
through the alternator switch. Is there a preferred reason for one
or the other?
Doesn't matter. You are to be commended for
taking the time to study these drawings and
picking up on the variables!
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Active Notification of Low Voltage |
At 05:06 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
>Many current OBAM aircraft have electronic EFIS and/or EIS systems
>installed in their panels. Most of these systems have the
>capability to monitor various engine and electrical
>parameters. Limits can be programmed so that when a parameter is
>outside of the set limits, this is enunciated via audio and/or
>visual notification (a warning light).
>
>Is the use of these EFIS/EIS systems adequate for proper stand alone
>"Active Notification of Low Voltage"? Or is it recommended that
>additional equipment be employed? This additional equipment would
>be such as AEC9005, AEC9024 (when available), or other such devices
>on the market.
Your choice. The operative word is "active".
If the nature of the warning provided as a
feature of a panel mounted accessory is sufficient
to get your attention within a minute of
onset of LV, then the design goals have been
met.
The B&C LR series regulators are shipped with
a rather obnoxious yellow warning light assembly
that is guaranteed to get your attention.
It's something you can experiment with in
flight. Shut the alternator off. Judge for
yourself if the resulting indication is sufficiently
attention getting.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Current - Life Is Indeed Harder When You're |
Stupid
Change out the battery and see if that works, you may have reversed the
battery polarity in your battery. I'm sure there will be many other
ideas. Just make sure the polarity in the battery is correct.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Valovich, Paul
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:28 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reverse Current - Life Is Indeed Harder
When You're Stupid
The dumbest thing I've done on my RV-8A project - I reversed the
battery connections when reassembling after firewall forward work and
planning a final elec check before riveting on the top skin. Z-13/8;
Smoke and fire from the diode wire to the main terminal of the battery
contactor; corrected polarity and tried a jumper wire - more smoke and
fire when I go to Batt/Alt - making me think there is something wrong
further downstream.
Ordered a replacement contactor from B&C (this time a -2; previous was
a -1) but have been on business travel and have not had a chance to
troubleshoot.
Jumping the contactor and switching to Batt seems to have all the
trons flowing to their proper destination; going to Batt/Alt causes
everything to shut down.
Any words of wisdom from the forum. Don't bother reminding me what a
DS move it was - I already know and still can't believe I did it.
Paul Valovich
N192NM Reserved
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
So Dick You did not use the laminator at all? Also Do I need the whole kit
or just the color foil I want and the transfer foil & adhesive?
Tim Andres
>
> Check out http://www.pulsarprofx.com/
>
> You do need to find a heat sealer (or buy the one they sell), but the
> results are as good as they claim. I did my panels with this and it
> came out great! There is s bit of a learning curve at the start, but
> the kit provides plenty of material. I did use a clear overcoat for
> additional durability, but it is not necessary in areas of minimum
> exposure - near switches, yes; general labeling on the main panel, not
> really.
>
> Dick Tasker
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
Yes I used a laminator. When I bought the kit the laminator they sold
was expensive (still is) so I found one of the recommended ones on eBay
for a reasonable price. Now Digikey sells the "Personal Laminator"
which is recommended for the PCB fabrication kit for $69.95
(182-1030-ND). It is the one with the two position switch which is one
of the ones recommended for the decal kit.
Well, you don't need "the whole kit", but when you price out what you do
need, you might as well purchase the whole kit.
Of the six items in the kit, you can get the 3M blue masking tape almost
anywhere and you really don't need the sample sheets although they allow
you to experiment with pre-printed things. The selection of color foils
supplied is gross overkill for our use, but is useful for those few
places you want a different color. You can purchase the adhesive in
quite a few locations (at least in the US).
So you have to purchase the toner transfer system, the carrier boards
and the mylar carrier (for a total of $42). You will also have to
purchase locally the adhesive and the 3M tape (for around $23). And
then whatever colors you want to use. The total then becomes $65 plus
the color foil. That leaves $25 for foil which means just under three
colors. But you get two toner transfer system packages with the kit
(which you may not actually need).
I would buy the kit and if I thought that I would use more of one of the
colors, a roll of that. But keep in mind that each color sheet is 8" x
36" long. If you group the decals you make together on one sheet (even
if they will be far apart on the panel) you can get a LOT of decals from
one sheet.
Dick Tasker
Tim Andres wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim Andres"<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
>
> So Dick You did not use the laminator at all? Also Do I need the whole kit
> or just the color foil I want and the transfer foil& adhesive?
> Tim Andres
>
>
>
>> Check out http://www.pulsarprofx.com/
>>
>> You do need to find a heat sealer (or buy the one they sell), but the
>> results are as good as they claim. I did my panels with this and it
>> came out great! There is s bit of a learning curve at the start, but
>> the kit provides plenty of material. I did use a clear overcoat for
>> additional durability, but it is not necessary in areas of minimum
>> exposure - near switches, yes; general labeling on the main panel, not
>> really.
>>
>> Dick Tasker
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question |
Tom, I have an unresolved strobe noise problem in my composite aircraft.
For the record, the radio is an ICOM A210 and they are Sky Brite Strobes
with a Bob Archer antenna.
I think the noise is broadcast by the power supply and picked up by the
antenna.
I say unresolved because I haven't bothered to trace it it yet. I did try
an inline filter to the Strobe +12V supply, which didn't seem to do anything
but I find all the noise goes away when I have the strobe switch in the OFF
position.
Sam
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 AM, tomcostanza
<Tom@costanzaandassociates.com>wrote:
> <Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
>
> Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms? And if so, did
> you do anything to reduce it?
>
> I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench. I
> found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a
> comm radio. The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line
> and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and
> with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway. I'm
> more concerned about the nav or gps receivers.
>
> I'm asking because I need to run wires and don't know if I need to keep the
> strobe wires away from other wires, and if so, how far. It will complicate
> things if I do (drill more holes in structural members, etc.), so I'd like
> to bundle all the wires together. On the other hand, if I need to keep them
> separate, I'd rather do the work while I'm building, than try to retrofit a
> fix after the plane is built.
>
> --------
> Clear Skies,
> Tom Costanza
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300698#300698
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Strobes vs. Nav/Com question |
Sam I would suggest you run the strobes or radio off a separate 12 volt
source to see it that helps. If it changes for the better then you know the
problem is in the supply voltage.
Tim Andres
<mailto:rnbraud@yahoo.com>
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question
Tom, I have an unresolved strobe noise problem in my composite aircraft.
For the record, the radio is an ICOM A210 and they are Sky Brite Strobes
with a Bob Archer antenna.
I think the noise is broadcast by the power supply and picked up by the
antenna.
I say unresolved because I haven't bothered to trace it it yet. I did try
an inline filter to the Strobe +12V supply, which didn't seem to do anything
but I find all the noise goes away when I have the strobe switch in the OFF
position.
Sam
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 AM, tomcostanza <Tom@costanzaandassociates.com>
wrote:
<Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms? And if so, did
you do anything to reduce it?
I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench. I
found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a
comm radio. The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line
and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and
with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway. I'm
more concerned about the nav or gps receivers.
I'm asking because I need to run wires and don't know if I need to keep the
strobe wires away from other wires, and if so, how far. It will complicate
things if I do (drill more holes in structural members, etc.), so I'd like
to bundle all the wires together. On the other hand, if I need to keep them
separate, I'd rather do the work while I'm building, than try to retrofit a
fix after the plane is built.
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300698#300698
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11:35:00
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
Thanks Dick. What is the deal with the laminator; do they want a lower heat?
Thanks again; I'm going to give it a try.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Tasker
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel Labeling
<retasker@optonline.net>
Yes I used a laminator. When I bought the kit the laminator they sold
was expensive (still is) so I found one of the recommended ones on eBay
for a reasonable price. Now Digikey sells the "Personal Laminator"
which is recommended for the PCB fabrication kit for $69.95
(182-1030-ND). It is the one with the two position switch which is one
of the ones recommended for the decal kit.
Well, you don't need "the whole kit", but when you price out what you do
need, you might as well purchase the whole kit.
Of the six items in the kit, you can get the 3M blue masking tape almost
anywhere and you really don't need the sample sheets although they allow
you to experiment with pre-printed things. The selection of color foils
supplied is gross overkill for our use, but is useful for those few
places you want a different color. You can purchase the adhesive in
quite a few locations (at least in the US).
So you have to purchase the toner transfer system, the carrier boards
and the mylar carrier (for a total of $42). You will also have to
purchase locally the adhesive and the 3M tape (for around $23). And
then whatever colors you want to use. The total then becomes $65 plus
the color foil. That leaves $25 for foil which means just under three
colors. But you get two toner transfer system packages with the kit
(which you may not actually need).
I would buy the kit and if I thought that I would use more of one of the
colors, a roll of that. But keep in mind that each color sheet is 8" x
36" long. If you group the decals you make together on one sheet (even
if they will be far apart on the panel) you can get a LOT of decals from
one sheet.
Dick Tasker
Tim Andres wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim
Andres"<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
>
> So Dick You did not use the laminator at all? Also Do I need the whole kit
> or just the color foil I want and the transfer foil& adhesive?
> Tim Andres
>
>
>
>> Check out http://www.pulsarprofx.com/
>>
>> You do need to find a heat sealer (or buy the one they sell), but the
>> results are as good as they claim. I did my panels with this and it
>> came out great! There is s bit of a learning curve at the start, but
>> the kit provides plenty of material. I did use a clear overcoat for
>> additional durability, but it is not necessary in areas of minimum
>> exposure - near switches, yes; general labeling on the main panel, not
>> really.
>>
>> Dick Tasker
>>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
23:35:00
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
Actually I think they want the higher heat. On mine it has two settings
- one for 3 mil and one for 5 mil mylar. I use the thicker (higher
heat) setting.
Dick
Tim Andres wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim Andres"<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Thanks Dick. What is the deal with the laminator; do they want a lower heat?
> Thanks again; I'm going to give it a try.
> Tim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Tasker
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:25 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel Labeling
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Yes I used a laminator. When I bought the kit the laminator they sold
> was expensive (still is) so I found one of the recommended ones on eBay
> for a reasonable price. Now Digikey sells the "Personal Laminator"
> which is recommended for the PCB fabrication kit for $69.95
> (182-1030-ND). It is the one with the two position switch which is one
> of the ones recommended for the decal kit.
>
> Well, you don't need "the whole kit", but when you price out what you do
> need, you might as well purchase the whole kit.
>
> Of the six items in the kit, you can get the 3M blue masking tape almost
> anywhere and you really don't need the sample sheets although they allow
> you to experiment with pre-printed things. The selection of color foils
> supplied is gross overkill for our use, but is useful for those few
> places you want a different color. You can purchase the adhesive in
> quite a few locations (at least in the US).
>
> So you have to purchase the toner transfer system, the carrier boards
> and the mylar carrier (for a total of $42). You will also have to
> purchase locally the adhesive and the 3M tape (for around $23). And
> then whatever colors you want to use. The total then becomes $65 plus
> the color foil. That leaves $25 for foil which means just under three
> colors. But you get two toner transfer system packages with the kit
> (which you may not actually need).
>
> I would buy the kit and if I thought that I would use more of one of the
> colors, a roll of that. But keep in mind that each color sheet is 8" x
> 36" long. If you group the decals you make together on one sheet (even
> if they will be far apart on the panel) you can get a LOT of decals from
> one sheet.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Tim Andres wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim
>>
> Andres"<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
>
>> So Dick You did not use the laminator at all? Also Do I need the whole kit
>> or just the color foil I want and the transfer foil& adhesive?
>> Tim Andres
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Check out http://www.pulsarprofx.com/
>>>
>>> You do need to find a heat sealer (or buy the one they sell), but the
>>> results are as good as they claim. I did my panels with this and it
>>> came out great! There is s bit of a learning curve at the start, but
>>> the kit provides plenty of material. I did use a clear overcoat for
>>> additional durability, but it is not necessary in areas of minimum
>>> exposure - near switches, yes; general labeling on the main panel, not
>>> really.
>>>
>>> Dick Tasker
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 23:35:00
>
>
>
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