Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:55 AM - Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question (Sam Hoskins)
2. 06:41 AM - Re: Active Notification of Low Voltage (Charles Brame)
3. 07:06 AM - Re: Active Notification of Low Voltage ()
4. 08:29 AM - Re: Active Notification of Low Voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 01:12 PM - Wire size calculator and gauge totalizer (jonlaury)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question |
I did that. Still had the strobe noise.
Sam
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Sam I would suggest you run the strobes or radio off a separate 12 volt
> source to see it that helps. If it changes for the better then you know the
> problem is in the supply voltage.
>
> Tim Andres
>
> <rnbraud@yahoo.com>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2010 7:12 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question
>
>
> Tom, I have an unresolved strobe noise problem in my composite aircraft.
> For the record, the radio is an ICOM A210 and they are Sky Brite Strobes
> with a Bob Archer antenna.
>
>
> I think the noise is broadcast by the power supply and picked up by the
> antenna.
>
>
> I say unresolved because I haven't bothered to trace it it yet. I did try
> an inline filter to the Strobe +12V supply, which didn't seem to do anything
> but I find all the noise goes away when I have the strobe switch in the OFF
> position.
>
>
> Sam
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:50 AM, tomcostanza <Tom@costanzaandassociates.com>
> wrote:
>
> <Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
>
> Has anyone had interference between strobes and Nav/Coms? And if so, did
> you do anything to reduce it?
>
> I ran a seat-of-the-pants experiment by running one strobe on the bench. I
> found a lot of interference on a broadcast AM radio, but almost none with a
> comm radio. The little I did notice seemed to be coming from the power line
> and not the antenna (when I turned the volume down, I still heard it), and
> with the engine running, I doubt I would be able to hear it anyway. I'm
> more concerned about the nav or gps receivers.
>
> I'm asking because I need to run wires and don't know if I need to keep the
> strobe wires away from other wires, and if so, how far. It will complicate
> things if I do (drill more holes in structural members, etc.), so I'd like
> to bundle all the wires together. On the other hand, if I need to keep them
> separate, I'd rather do the work while I'm building, than try to retrofit a
> fix after the plane is built.
>
> --------
> Clear Skies,
> Tom Costanza
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300698#300698
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Active Notification of Low Voltage |
Time: 09:07:05 AM PST US
From: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low
Voltage
Bob, et. al.,
I'm one of the guilty ones with an electronic EFIS and no warning
light for a low voltage. In a low voltage situation, my EFIS voltmeter
does flash, but I have determined that isn't a sufficient warning.
Thus I would like to install a low voltage warning light. To
complicate matters: however, I have a generic Ford regulator that does
not have a low voltage warning circuit. Is there a simple solution for
this situation?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
----------------------------------------------------------
Time: 06:19:27 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage
At 05:06 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
> Many current OBAM aircraft have electronic EFIS and/or EIS systems
> installed in their panels. Most of these systems have the
> capability to monitor various engine and electrical
> parameters. Limits can be programmed so that when a parameter is
> outside of the set limits, this is enunciated via audio and/or
> visual notification (a warning light).
>
> Is the use of these EFIS/EIS systems adequate for proper stand alone
> "Active Notification of Low Voltage"? Or is it recommended that
> additional equipment be employed? This additional equipment would
> be such as AEC9005, AEC9024 (when available), or other such devices
> on the market.
Your choice. The operative word is "active".
If the nature of the warning provided as a
feature of a panel mounted accessory is sufficient
to get your attention within a minute of
onset of LV, then the design goals have been
met.
The B&C LR series regulators are shipped with
a rather obnoxious yellow warning light assembly
that is guaranteed to get your attention.
It's something you can experiment with in
flight. Shut the alternator off. Judge for
yourself if the resulting indication is sufficiently
attention getting.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Active Notification of Low Voltage |
Charlie,
It may sound too simple but just install a low voltage warning light. B
& C, Bob or Eric have simple, low cost jobs to fit the bill. I have a
Dynon that displays internal, bus and master voltages but I still like
to see the idiot light on the panel.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charles Brame
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage
Time: 09:07:05 AM PST US
From: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low
Voltage
Bob, et. al.,
I'm one of the guilty ones with an electronic EFIS and no warning light
for a low voltage. In a low voltage situation, my EFIS voltmeter does
flash, but I have determined that isn't a sufficient warning.
Thus I would like to install a low voltage warning light. To complicate
matters: however, I have a generic Ford regulator that does not have a
low voltage warning circuit. Is there a simple solution for this
situation?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
----------------------------------------------------------
Time: 06:19:27 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage
At 05:06 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
> Many current OBAM aircraft have electronic EFIS and/or EIS systems
> installed in their panels. Most of these systems have the capability
> to monitor various engine and electrical parameters. Limits can be
> programmed so that when a parameter is outside of the set limits, this
> is enunciated via audio and/or visual notification (a warning light).
>
> Is the use of these EFIS/EIS systems adequate for proper stand alone
> "Active Notification of Low Voltage"? Or is it recommended that
> additional equipment be employed? This additional equipment would be
> such as AEC9005, AEC9024 (when available), or other such devices on
> the market.
Your choice. The operative word is "active".
If the nature of the warning provided as a
feature of a panel mounted accessory is sufficient
to get your attention within a minute of
onset of LV, then the design goals have been
met.
The B&C LR series regulators are shipped with
a rather obnoxious yellow warning light assembly
that is guaranteed to get your attention.
It's something you can experiment with in
flight. Shut the alternator off. Judge for
yourself if the resulting indication is sufficiently
attention getting.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Active Notification of Low Voltage |
At 09:05 AM 6/17/2010, you wrote:
>
>Charlie,
>
>It may sound too simple but just install a low voltage warning light. B
>& C, Bob or Eric have simple, low cost jobs to fit the bill. I have a
>Dynon that displays internal, bus and master voltages but I still like
>to see the idiot light on the panel.
I'll re-enforce Glen's suggestion by offering the simple-
ideas that have driven my design goals for active notification
of low voltage for over 30 years . . .
Most low voltage notification systems built into glass
screens and alternator regulators are not stand-alone,
attention getting, auto-preflight tested systems.
Every low voltage warning device I've crafted has
no other function nor does it depend on functional
integrity of any other device in the airplane.
The recommended indicator lamp is bright. Installation
instructions call for putting it right in front of the pilot.
When we flash it, a rate of 2.5 to 3 times per second
is the targeted rate shown to be the most attention
getting. Installers are encouraged to test the
installation for sun-light view ability.
By installing active notification of low voltage
right on the main bus, it's the first thing that
comes on with the master switch and it stays on
until the alternator comes on line. I.e., you get
a pre-flight test of functionality whether or not
it's am item on your checklist.
Having said all this, folks tend to gravitate toward
the notion that loss of an alternator is somehow
an emergency that should be annunciated with lots
of sirens, bells, flashing lights and waving
flags.
NOT SO.
The whole purpose for active notification of low
voltage is to PREVENT loss of an alternator from
becoming an emergency. This is accomplished by
offering the pilot timely encouragement to implement
plan-B. No more, no less.
Once plan-B is in effect, the well crafted and
maintained system offers a no-sweat alternative
for return to earth.
A thread common to many loss-of-alternator
scenarios in the library of dark-n-stormy-night
stories is LACK OF AWARENESS about alternator
functionality combined with LACK OF AWARENESS
of system condition and capability. I.e., not
knowing the condition of the ship's battery and
a complete WAG as to how long needful things will
run on the battery's contained energy.
It's the classic case of what you don't know is
that which might become a disappointing surprise.
Indeed, many of the dark-n-stormy-night narratives
illustrate the fact that the pilot didn't know
the alternator wasn't working until the
panel went black and options for battery
load shedding were already expended.
That little yellow light is not the end-all,
be-all of electrical system warning gadgets.
It is but one link in the chain of thoughtful
set of design goals for crafting a FAILURE
TOLERANT system. Like all chains, the design
is no stronger than the weakest link which
can manifest in poor architecture, poor battery
maintenance, poor testing of failure hypothesis,
AND warnings that are too benign to get one's
attention in the cockpit under all flight
conditions.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes vs. Nav/Com question |
At 05:40 AM 6/16/2010, you wrote:
><Tom@CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
>
>Sam,
>
>Ditto what Tim said. The easiest thing to do would be to borrow a
>hand-held receiver. If possible, you might also connect it to the
>ship's power to see if the symptoms change. If you only get
>interference while connected to the ship's power, it's probably
>coming in through the power wiring and not the antenna.
>
>My concern was that I would experience the same issue, since I will
>also be using Archer wingtip antennas, and the strobe will only be a
>few inches away. Someone suggested, and Bob may confirm, that
>grounding the shield at both ends gives you an electromagnetic
>shield (what we want), as opposed to grounding at only one end
>(electrostatic shield).
What is the nature of the noise? Is it a 'pop' each time
the strobe fires or is it a whine that sweeps in synchronization
with the strobe firing? Is the noise affected by adjusting
volume on the radio? When there is no signal being received
by the radio and the background noise is squelched, can
the noise be heard?
For the most part, shielding of the strobe wiring has little
or zero benefit for noise reduction. The 'pop' phenomenon
is most often associated with radiated noise from the
strobe tube and is generally worse when the victim receiver's
antenna is mounted close to the tube. The whining noise is
usually conducted on the 14v power lines but it can get into
the system via the radio or the external audio processing
like the intercom.
You first need to evaluate the questions above to identify
the mode of propagation and exactly WHICH system is being
victimized.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Wire size calculator and gauge totalizer |
Digging around in saved files, I found this handy wire calculator from Andy Plunkett
that also totals length by gauge for putting together a shopping list.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301594#301594
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/andy_plunkett_wire_size_165.xls
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