Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Panel punch (bob noffs)
2. 08:39 AM - Panel Punch (Dennis Johnson)
3. 09:54 AM - Panel Punch (Roger)
4. 09:54 AM - Re: Panel punch (Jared Yates)
5. 11:27 AM - Re: New kid on the block . . (Speedy11@aol.com)
6. 12:42 PM - Speed Brakes/Spoilers (Fergus Kyle)
7. 02:28 PM - Re: Speed Brakes/Spoilers (Bill Bradburry)
8. 02:33 PM - Re: Panel Punch (Bill Bradburry)
9. 09:33 PM - Re: Speed Brakes/Spoilers (Robert Sultzbach)
Message 1
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i used a holesaw that i bought at ace. it worked perfect on my 1/16'' thick
alum. i used one that mounted rigid on the center drill. more expensive ones
that allowed substitution of sizes didnt work as well [i bought them too]. i
cut my whole panel with 2 sized holes and each was perfect. buy one and try
it on scrap first.
bob noffs
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 5:30 PM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <
mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
> mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>
> Does anyone on the list have a 3 1/8" panel punch that you might be willing
> to loan out? I have a set of Greenly Punches but do not have one this
> large. I need to punch about 3 instrument holes in my panel and I feel the
> punch is the best way to go. The panel is light gauge aluminum, so will be
> very easy to punch. I have considered using a hole saw, but I have never
> been able to make a nice clean hole with this method.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Roger Curtis
> Upton, MA
>
>
Message 2
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EAA has a great tutorial video on a clever way to use a hole saw to make
nice holes in an instrument panel.
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
It's in the "General" tab, near the bottom of the list.
Dennis
Message 3
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Thanks everyone for the helpful hints on punching instrument holes. My
opinion is that the best method is using a punch of the correct size,
however the EAA video, using a hole saw, appears to be a viable
alternative.
Again, thanks,
Roger
Message 4
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Check out the video in the EAA's hints for homebuilders:
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
<http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html>There is one about using a hole
saw for instrument panels, and if I remember correctly, he uses a piece of
pre-drilled plywood above the aluminum to align and steady the saw. It's
been a while since I watched it though.
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:19 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote:
> i used a holesaw that i bought at ace. it worked perfect on my 1/16'' thick
> alum. i used one that mounted rigid on the center drill. more expensive ones
> that allowed substitution of sizes didnt work as well [i bought them too]. i
> cut my whole panel with 2 sized holes and each was perfect. buy one and try
> it on scrap first.
> bob noffs
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 5:30 PM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <
> mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>>
>> Does anyone on the list have a 3 1/8" panel punch that you might be
>> willing
>> to loan out? I have a set of Greenly Punches but do not have one this
>> large. I need to punch about 3 instrument holes in my panel and I feel
>> the
>> punch is the best way to go. The panel is light gauge aluminum, so will
>> be
>> very easy to punch. I have considered using a hole saw, but I have never
>> been able to make a nice clean hole with this method.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>> utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New kid on the block . . |
Yesterday I saw on TV that the Terrafugia guys got approval from FAA to use
LSA category with the increased gross weight associated with amphibian
LSAs, but the stumbling block right now is the DOT approval for road safety.
However, as I recall, the DOT regulations aren't enforced if the vehicle
production is less than 200 vehicles per year.
Maybe they will be successful.
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Wonder if we'll see this guy at OSH this year . . .
or perhaps he's been there before and I just didn't
notice or hear of it. OSH is getting pretty BIG.
_http://www.terrafugia.com/_ (http://www.terrafugia.com/)
Bob . . .
This one has been around for a few years. Looks like the
project is moving along quite well. Apparently they are getting very close
to having a marketable item. My understanding is that they still have some
work to make it roadable, accident safety, crumple zones, etc. but it has
flown and I have seen it at Sun-n-Fun.
Roger
Message 6
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| Subject: | Speed Brakes/Spoilers |
Dennis,
I sent this diatribe to the wrong address so here it comes now:
One of us has it right (IMHO). The spoiler cancel switch should be on the
throttle. The TriStar 500 was a whiz in cockpit design. There were four
different kinds of spoilers on the wing.
The first were big jobs inboard to plop the aircraft onto the tires on
touchdown because you could round out, put only five of eight mainwheels on,
catch a drift and touch brakes would blow out the tires on the runway - so
the full weight was required to save tires - called GROUND SPOILERS. The
second were roll augmenters and "speed brakes" in the air but accompanies
the biggies when the touchdown was complete, the third types were outboard
to balance fuel tank contents on an "active" wing (called 'direct Lift
control' - don't ask) and I can't remember the 4th, but three of the four
assisted in roll. The speed brakes could only be selected in air with no
flap out - they were then effective brakes.
So, you can call 'em speed brakes only if they operate to increase
drag - that's how they are engineered into the wing. Just to complicate it,
there were mixers which decided if your selection was (a) acceptable and (b)
possible.
The crux was on the throttles (3). The outer ones (1 & 3) had
outside buttons in parallel, so were called GO AROUND buttons. If Cap'n was
flying he used the No1 throttle button, if the F/O was doing it he had the
No4 throttle button. When you wanted to abort the approach, you hollered "Go
around", pushed the GA button on your side as you opened the throttles to GA
power. The approach was made with some spoiler panels partially extended.
The button [1] demanded a proper nose-up pitch, [2] cancelled the extended
spoilers instantly which allowed the aircraft to 'leap' upward and [3] did a
number of complicated things which made aborting an approach magic and
instantaneous. No other a/c could do this and it meant (very early in the
trade) approaching to 7 feet (wheel height) from the runway and not drop a
foot farther - without ever seeing the ground. And 90% of the exercise was
aerodynamic - a miracle. Let's hear it for partial spoilers.
I suspect the throttle is the ideal place to cancel spoilers/speed
brakes because you are probably going to want to increase speed or improve
lift - and now.
I have to close, I hear matron coming down the hall.
Ferg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Speed Brakes/Spoilers |
There was a major Delta crash at DFW a few years ago where the plane
encountered wind shear on short final and touched down in a pasture prior to
the airport. When the wheels touched, the spoilers automatically deployed
and the pilot could not go around as a result. Major loss of life!
Bill B
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus
Kyle
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Speed Brakes/Spoilers
Dennis,
I sent this diatribe to the wrong address so here it comes now:
One of us has it right (IMHO). The spoiler cancel switch should be on the
throttle. The TriStar 500 was a whiz in cockpit design. There were four
different kinds of spoilers on the wing.
The first were big jobs inboard to plop the aircraft onto the tires on
touchdown because you could round out, put only five of eight mainwheels on,
catch a drift and touch brakes would blow out the tires on the runway - so
the full weight was required to save tires - called GROUND SPOILERS. The
second were roll augmenters and "speed brakes" in the air but accompanies
the biggies when the touchdown was complete, the third types were outboard
to balance fuel tank contents on an "active" wing (called 'direct Lift
control' - don't ask) and I can't remember the 4th, but three of the four
assisted in roll. The speed brakes could only be selected in air with no
flap out - they were then effective brakes.
So, you can call 'em speed brakes only if they operate to increase
drag - that's how they are engineered into the wing. Just to complicate it,
there were mixers which decided if your selection was (a) acceptable and (b)
possible.
The crux was on the throttles (3). The outer ones (1 & 3) had
outside buttons in parallel, so were called GO AROUND buttons. If Cap'n was
flying he used the No1 throttle button, if the F/O was doing it he had the
No4 throttle button. When you wanted to abort the approach, you hollered "Go
around", pushed the GA button on your side as you opened the throttles to GA
power. The approach was made with some spoiler panels partially extended.
The button [1] demanded a proper nose-up pitch, [2] cancelled the extended
spoilers instantly which allowed the aircraft to 'leap' upward and [3] did a
number of complicated things which made aborting an approach magic and
instantaneous. No other a/c could do this and it meant (very early in the
trade) approaching to 7 feet (wheel height) from the runway and not drop a
foot farther - without ever seeing the ground. And 90% of the exercise was
aerodynamic - a miracle. Let's hear it for partial spoilers.
I suspect the throttle is the ideal place to cancel spoilers/speed
brakes because you are probably going to want to increase speed or improve
lift - and now.
I have to close, I hear matron coming down the hall.
Ferg
Message 8
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I think someone said that they would send you a punch. If not and you still
need one, let me know. My panel is .090 and these die worked on it. You do
have to squeeze, release, rotate, squeeze on this .090 thickness. It would
really work like a breeze on a thinner panel. And you will need something
to drill the center hole with. A step drill works best for that.
Bill B
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 12:53 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel Punch
Thanks everyone for the helpful hints on punching instrument holes. My
opinion is that the best method is using a punch of the correct size,
however the EAA video, using a hole saw, appears to be a viable alternative.
Again, thanks,
Roger
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Speed Brakes/Spoilers |
Dear Sir.=0A=0A The crash of Delta 191 at DFW on 2 Aug 85 was not caused b
y the spoilers deploying at touchdown. It was conjected by Monday morning
qb's that had the spoilers deployed or not retracted at touchdown the aircr
aft would have stayed on the ground where it touched down north of Texas st
ate route 114. Therefore, it would not have hit the water tank at DFW. I
recall that on the Tristar going to full throttle automatically retracted t
he spoilers. So at full throttle during the windshear encounter, the spoil
ers automatically retracted. Time has a way of making memories fuzzy so if
anyone recollects differently please set me straight. Incidentally, from
what I can tell, EVERY airliner extends spoilers at weight on wheels during
landing. To go around, advance the throttles and retract the spoilers. W
hat might be a point of confusion is thrust reverser deployment. After thr
ust reverse is applied go arounds are generally forbidden by aircraft manuf
acturers.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn Jun 30, 2010, at 23:2
4, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:=0A=0AThere was a majo
r Delta crash at DFW a few years ago where the plane encountered wind shear
on short final and touched down in a pasture prior to the airport. When t
he wheels touched, the spoilers automatically deployed and the pilot could
not go around as a result. Major loss of life!=0A=0A =0A=0ABill B=0A=0A
=0A=0AFrom: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aero
electric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle=0ASent: Wednes
day, June 30, 2010 3:31 PM=0ATo: 1AeroElectricLIST=0ASubject: AeroElectric-
List: Speed Brakes/Spoilers=0A=0A =0A=0ADennis,=0A=0A I sent this di
atribe to the wrong address so here it comes now:=0A=0AOne of us has it rig
ht (IMHO). The spoiler cancel switch should be on the throttle. The TriStar
500 was a whiz in cockpit design. There were four different kinds of spoil
ers on the wing.=0A=0AThe first were big jobs inboard to plop the aircraft
onto the tires on touchdown because you could round out, put only five of e
ight mainwheels on, catch a drift and touch brakes would blow out the tires
on the runway =93 so the full weight was required to save tires
=93 called GROUND SPOILERS. The second were roll augmenters and
=9Cspeed brakes=9D in the air but accompanies the biggies when the to
uchdown was complete, the third types were outboard to balance fuel tank co
ntents on an =9Cactive=9D wing (called =98direct Lift con
trol=99 =93 don=99t ask) and I can=99t remember the
4th, but three of the four assisted in roll. The speed brakes could only b
e selected in air with no flap out =93 they were then effective brake
s.=0A=0A So, you can call =98em speed brakes only if they oper
ate to increase drag =93 that=99s how they are engineered into
the wing. Just to complicate it, there were mixers which decided if your se
lection was (a) acceptable and (b) possible.=0A=0A The crux was on t
he throttles (3). The outer ones (1 & 3) had outside buttons in parallel,
so were called GO AROUND buttons. If Cap=99n was flying he used the N
o1 throttle button, if the F/O was doing it he had the No4 throttle button.
When you wanted to abort the approach, you hollered =9CGo around
=9D, pushed the GA button on your side as you opened the throttles to GA
power. The approach was made with some spoiler panels partially extended.
The button [1] demanded a proper nose-up pitch, [2] cancelled the extended
spoilers instantly which allowed the aircraft to =98leap=99 up
ward and [3] did a number of complicated things which made aborting an appr
oach magic and instantaneous. No other a/c could do this and it meant (very
early in the trade) approaching to 7 feet (wheel height) from the runway a
nd not drop a foot farther =93 without ever seeing the ground. And 90
% of the exercise was aerodynamic =93 a miracle. Let=99s hear i
t for partial
spoilers.=0A=0A I suspect the throttle is the ideal place to cancel
spoilers/speed brakes because you are probably going to want to increase s
peed or improve lift =93 and now.=0A=0A I have to close, I hea
r matron coming down the hall.=0A=0AFerg=0A=0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.
=========================0A
=========================0A
========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
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