Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - RV12 Wire lists (Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: LV warn light snafu? (messydeer)
3. 07:37 AM - Facet Boost Pump Fuses (messydeer)
4. 07:39 AM - Z Figure Inconsistencies (Gordon Smith)
5. 08:15 AM - Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item ()
6. 08:17 AM - ANL Fuse holder (jonlaury)
7. 09:26 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Kevin Horton)
8. 10:07 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item ()
9. 10:11 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item ()
10. 10:43 AM - (wschertz@comcast.net)
11. 11:24 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item ()
12. 11:49 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Jared Yates)
13. 12:11 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (ray)
14. 12:33 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item ()
15. 12:50 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
16. 01:05 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Franz Fux)
17. 02:15 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Jay Hyde)
18. 02:40 PM - Re: Facet Boost Pump Fuses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 03:13 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (rgent1224@aol.com)
20. 06:32 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (khorton)
21. 07:20 PM - Re: Facet Boost Pump Fuses (John Loram)
22. 08:20 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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I am disappointed that Van's refuses to provide wire lists for RV12
harnesses and the RV12 Control panel connectors. It will make it very
difficult to do maintenance.
Has anybody developed wire lists for the RV12.
Roger
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: LV warn light snafu? |
Thanks, Bob :-)
It was a big relief for sure to figure that out. It'll be at least a few months
before engine startup. My goal is to get it in the air next year. I do have
another electrical question that I'll post on a different thread, though.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304884#304884
Message 3
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Subject: | Facet Boost Pump Fuses |
Hi!
I'm wondering what size fuse to use for my Facet 40104 boost pump. I talked to somebody in their engineering department and he said 3 is recommended. I told him I'd heard of a couple people blowing 3A fuses in a 40105. They replaced it with a 5A and had no further problems. For some reason Facet is stingy with documentation. They list 20 or more pumps and give only their psi and gph ranges individually, then lump them all together and say they draw an average of 1.6A. The 04 I have is the smallest, with the 05 only slightly bigger. http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=7&id=16&Itemid=31
I asked if putting a 5A in would work. The Facet dude said it probably would work,
but it'd increase the chance of wrecking the coil, but wouldn't get hot enough
to start a fire. I have 15-20' round trip of 20awg wire going to it, so I
know a 5A fuse would protect the wire. I plan on using this as a boost pump for
my mechanical, turning it on before startup, check the pressure, then some
seconds later crank the engine. It would then be turned off at altitude and back
on for landing. The boost pump is near the bottom of the cowl, ~1' below the
mechanical pump. They are in series with no recirculation, so it would be pumping
with no flow until cranking.
The fuses I'm thinking of are the fast ATO/ATC style. I could go with slower 3AG
fuses, if there is a any advantage in doing this. I assume that if the Facet
is pumping against a closed valve a couple feet downstream it would in a few
seconds reach its max current draw. I haven't heard of anyone wrecking their boost
pump, just a few that blew 3A fuses.
I'm waiting for Facet to return my emailed questions. I also could bench test this
pump with my VOM and see what the current draw really is.
Suggestions?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304897#304897
Message 4
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Subject: | Z Figure Inconsistencies |
I think the following questions relate to the current string with the
subject: "ANL current limiter location on rear battery Installations."
I think that item number 1. below relates to Bob's answer in the above
string where he comments: "The e-bus alternate feed wire is
longer, smaller gage and capable of being fault-powered
from either end."
And item number 2. below relates to an inconsistency with Bob's answer in
the above string where he comments: "Further, we don't want a fault on the
alternate feed path wire to open both the alternate and
normal feed paths. Hence NO protection in the normal path
and SHORT wires there too."
RESEND - Originally sent on 21 June & 24 June when Bob N. was tied up with
his monster garage sale.
I find some inconsistencies regarding E-Bus feeds and I can't understand the
physics that might drive the decision for these differences. Or are they
just items that need to be updated in the future?
1. The wire from the E-Bus Alternate Feed Switch (or relay) to the
E-Bus:
In most cases this wire connects to the E-Bus directly at the bolt, with no
protection between the E-Bus bolt and the other end. In two cases it is
different. In Z10-8 it connects at the E-Bus through a fuse on the E-Bus.
In Z13-8 it connects to the E-Bus bolt through a Fuselink at the bolt. It
seems to me that this wire will likely be more than 6 inches (especially
when coming from a panel mounted switch). It seems to me that this wire
should be protected at the E-Bus when the E-Bus is hot from the Main Bus
Feed and the E-Bus Alternate Feed is open. However, I don't know which is
the favored method (Fuse or Fuselink).
2. The wire from the Main Bus to the E-Bus main feed Diode:
In all cases except one this wire comes directly from the Main Bus Bolt to
the Diode, with no protection (in most cases it is marked to be less than 6
inches). In the Z19 figures, this wire comes from the Main Bus through a
fuse on the Main Bus and then to the main feed Diode. Is this because it is
assumed that this wire will likely be longer than 6 inches? If the E-Bus
and Main Bus could be close to each other and the Diode could this wire be
as in the other Z figures?
Gordon Smith
Message 5
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item |
Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
breaker for a mission critical item.
Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me
on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not
worried about one more $20 breaker.
Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situation
of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix that
problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the wing
cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So, all
is well when the flap motor has electrons.
No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergency
dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in.
My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to
fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option
with a breaker on the panel?
Thanks,
Glenn
Message 6
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While ANL current limiters are currently at the top of this list, thought I'd relate
my experience with the holders of these devices.
If you are considering the inexpensive, clear acrylic torpedo-shape holders, DON'T.
The design uses a screw to pinch the fat wire in the supplied metal wire end/ANL
end. Once the ANL device is in place and your wire ends are clamped down (I
elected to solder mine), you screw the two plastic end pieces to the body and
end up with an enclosed, transparent housing.
Sounds good, looks good, but the wire terminal anti-rotation device failed on both
ends on two units and the ANL fuse broke. These units are OK for the auto
stereo systems they're designed for, but totally inadequate for holding on to
a wire that's being thrashed about by an engine on a dynafocal mount.
I ended up using scrap 1/8" fiberglass lamination and two AN screws/nuts to make
an easy simple, small, light, strong and cheap homegrown replacement.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304907#304907
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why
wouldn't the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor
CB?
--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
> breaker for a mission critical item.
>
> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me
> on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not
> worried about one more $20 breaker.
>
> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situation
> of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix that
> problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the wing
> cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So, all
> is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>
> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergency
> dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in.
>
> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to
> fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option
> with a breaker on the panel?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glenn
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
The plan is as I defined below. Find a long runway. If I have a CB I get
at least one chance to reset. Is it worth one chance?
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
Critical Item
<khorton01@rogers.com>
What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why
wouldn't the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor
CB?
--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
> breaker for a mission critical item.
>
> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
me
> on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not
> worried about one more $20 breaker.
>
> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
situation
> of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix
that
> problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the
wing
> cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So, all
> is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>
> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
emergency
> dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in.
>
> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to
> fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option
> with a breaker on the panel?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glenn
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
And further to that =2C how or why would either a fuse or breaker open such
that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker opens t
hen likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the protective d
evice to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to restore flap functi
onality anyway. Protective devices normally only operate for just cause=2C
and if you don't repair the root cause resetting the device accomplishes no
thing other than an additional trip.
Bob McC
> From: khorton01@rogers.com
> Date: Thu=2C 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Crit
ical Item
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
om>
>
> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why
> wouldn't the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor
> CB?
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa=2C Canada
>
>
>
> On Thu=2C Jul 15=2C 2010 at 11:14=2C <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
> >
> > Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
> > breaker for a mission critical item.
> >
> > Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me
> > on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not
> > worried about one more $20 breaker.
> >
> > Problem: My aircraft=2C Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
> > flaps=3B not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situati
on
> > of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix tha
t
> > problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the win
g
> > cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So=2C al
l
> > is well when the flap motor has electrons.
> >
> > No=2C there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergen
cy
> > dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in.
> >
> > My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to
> > fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option
> > with a breaker on the panel?
> >
> > Thanks=2C
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 10
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http://compulider.com.br/about.php
Message 11
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
Thanks,
Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite
sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
motor?
That makes my decision easy.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
Critical Item
And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker
opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting
the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
Bob McC
> From: khorton01@rogers.com
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't
> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
> >
> > Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
> > breaker for a mission critical item.
> >
> > Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
> > me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
> > not worried about one more $20 breaker.
> >
> > Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
> > flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
> > situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
> > Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
> > to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
> > during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
> >
> > No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
> > emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
fly it in.
> >
> > My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
> > to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
> > option with a breaker on the panel?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
To muddy the waters, I have reset the landing gear breaker on a twin comanche,
which tripped because the wrong lube in the system had gotten cold and stiff,
thus working the motor a bit too hard.
You are the only one who can make the decision.
On Jul 15, 2010, at 14:23, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite
> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
> motor?
>
> That makes my decision easy.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
>
>
> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker
> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting
> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>
>
>
> Bob McC
>
>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>
>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't
>
>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Horton
>> Ottawa, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>
>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>
>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>
>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>
>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>
>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>
>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
> fly it in.
>>>
>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
FWIW
Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an
overload resulting in a blown CB?
Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an
overload resulting in a blown CB?
Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be
cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite
> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
> motor?
>
> That makes my decision easy.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
>
>
> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker
> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting
> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>
>
> Bob McC
>
>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't
>
>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Horton
>> Ottawa, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14,<longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>>
>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>
>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>
>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>
>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>
>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>
>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>
>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
> fly it in.
>>>
>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
Thanks All,
Yes, I tend to agree - there must be some value (and a lot of memorable
stories) in being able to reset flaps at least once. Sure, if a problem
exists, or I see smoke - forget it, but for all the reasons mentioned
it's worth $20.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
Critical Item
FWIW
Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an
overload resulting in a blown CB?
Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an
overload resulting in a blown CB?
Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be
cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were
quite
> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
> motor?
>
> That makes my decision easy.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
>
>
> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or
breaker
> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause
resetting
> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>
>
> Bob McC
>
>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why
wouldn't
>
>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Horton
>> Ottawa, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14,<longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>>
>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>
>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>
>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>
>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>
>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>
>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>
>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
> fly it in.
>>>
>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
I have chosen to mainly use fuses on my (non-flying) RV10 with a Z-14.
I do have 4 breakers in no particular order:
#1 & #2 for 2 LRC3 regulators
#3 for the autopilot which I consider a quick dis-connect switch
#4 for the flaps
I don't think a no-flap landing in '10 is a big deal but I came up with
the same scenarios (high speed deployment, ice) which 'could' blow the
circuit protection and justify a reset.
My fuses are on two panels in the right seat leg well wall.
I've been flying my Maule for over 10 years and 1300+ hours and never
had a breaker pop. My thinking goes something like, "it probably won't
happen in my lifetime, if it does on a CAVU day, land it and don't risk
a fire, if does happen on a dark and stormy, use the backups to land it
since you have like 3 layers of them"
But I'm not flying it yet
Bill "Polyurethaning" Watson
Durham, NC
ray wrote:
>
> FWIW
>
> Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an
> overload resulting in a blown CB?
>
> Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an
> overload resulting in a blown CB?
>
> Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might
> be cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
>
> I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
>> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite
>> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
>> motor?
>>
>> That makes my decision easy.
>>
>> Glenn E. Long
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>>
>>
>> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
>> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker
>> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
>> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
>> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
>> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting
>> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>>> Critical Item
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>>
>>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't
>>
>>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin Horton
>>> Ottawa, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14,<longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>>>
>>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>>
>>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>>
>>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>>
>>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>>
>>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>>
>>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
>> fly it in.
>>>>
>>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ===========
>> ===========
>> ===========
>> ===========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
Hi All,
The one thing to consider is the fact that there is no harm done in landing
with the flaps retracted. Therefore I see very little value in having the
ability to reset the breaker or change the fuse if the flaps don't extend.
Now of course we can look at the scenario where the flaps are extended
already and the breaker or fuse blew during a full extension or when trying
to retract. This would most likely be in a case during a go around in which
case all hands are busy to fly the airplane anyway and the PIC should not
distract himself with other things .
Franz
RV7A-450h
On 15/07/10 12:30 PM, "longg@pjm.com" <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks All,
>
> Yes, I tend to agree - there must be some value (and a lot of memorable
> stories) in being able to reset flaps at least once. Sure, if a problem
> exists, or I see smoke - forget it, but for all the reasons mentioned
> it's worth $20.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
>
>
> FWIW
>
> Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an
> overload resulting in a blown CB?
>
> Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an
> overload resulting in a blown CB?
>
> Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be
>
> cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
>
> I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
>> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were
> quite
>> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
>> motor?
>>
>> That makes my decision easy.
>>
>> Glenn E. Long
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>>
>>
>> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
>> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or
> breaker
>> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
>> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
>> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
>> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause
> resetting
>> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>>> Critical Item
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>>
>>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why
> wouldn't
>>
>>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin Horton
>>> Ottawa, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14,<longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>>>
>>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>>
>>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>>
>>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>>
>>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>>
>>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>>
>>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
>> fly it in.
>>>>
>>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ===========
>> ===========
>> ===========
>> ===========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Franz Fux
Director of Operations
Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd.
Bell 2 Lodge
P.O. Box 1237
Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6
CANADA
Office Contact
T: (250) 558-7980
F: (250) 558-7981
Lodge Contact
T: (250) 275-4770
F: (250) 275-4912
http://www.bell2lodge.com
---
LAST FRONTIER Heliskiing
www.lastfrontierheli.com
---
And for some of the best Steelhead Fishing in the world at Bell 2 Lodge
www.steelhead-fishing.net
Message 17
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
I am also building a Legacy and I feel that there may be a possibility that
the motor could be overloaded - more particularly with the landing gear
which is hydraulic. Here the motor drives a hydraulic pack and I think that
one may get an overload which could be due to a bit of dirt in the fluid or
something like that. One reset may (?) allow this to be cleared and you can
try again. Of course you also have the option, when needing to lower the
gear, of a dump valve that allows the gear to swing free and down.
It seems to me that flap loss in a Legacy can be a big deal so one reset
should be allowed. The guy I am building for is an airline pilot and he
wants to see breakers. After much persuasion I managed to convert him to
the fuse options but threw in a bone with it; flaps and gear could have
breakers.
My philosophy is that if it is possible to overload the circuit, such as
with a motor, then a CB is permissible. If it is a non-varying load, such
as a light, no reset.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Franz Fux
Sent: 15 July 2010 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
Critical Item
<franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
Hi All,
The one thing to consider is the fact that there is no harm done in landing
with the flaps retracted. Therefore I see very little value in having the
ability to reset the breaker or change the fuse if the flaps don't extend.
Now of course we can look at the scenario where the flaps are extended
already and the breaker or fuse blew during a full extension or when trying
to retract. This would most likely be in a case during a go around in which
case all hands are busy to fly the airplane anyway and the PIC should not
distract himself with other things .
Franz
RV7A-450h
On 15/07/10 12:30 PM, "longg@pjm.com" <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks All,
>
> Yes, I tend to agree - there must be some value (and a lot of memorable
> stories) in being able to reset flaps at least once. Sure, if a problem
> exists, or I see smoke - forget it, but for all the reasons mentioned
> it's worth $20.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
>
>
> FWIW
>
> Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an
> overload resulting in a blown CB?
>
> Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an
> overload resulting in a blown CB?
>
> Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be
>
> cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
>
> I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
>> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were
> quite
>> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
>> motor?
>>
>> That makes my decision easy.
>>
>> Glenn E. Long
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>>
>>
>> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
>> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or
> breaker
>> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
>> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
>> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
>> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause
> resetting
>> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>>> Critical Item
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>>
>>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why
> wouldn't
>>
>>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kevin Horton
>>> Ottawa, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14,<longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:<longg@pjm.com>
>>>>
>>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>>
>>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>>
>>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>>
>>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>>
>>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>>
>>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
>> fly it in.
>>>>
>>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ===========
>> ===========
>> ===========
>> ===========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Franz Fux
Director of Operations
Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd.
Bell 2 Lodge
P.O. Box 1237
Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6
CANADA
Office Contact
T: (250) 558-7980
F: (250) 558-7981
Lodge Contact
T: (250) 275-4770
F: (250) 275-4912
http://www.bell2lodge.com
---
LAST FRONTIER Heliskiing
www.lastfrontierheli.com
---
And for some of the best Steelhead Fishing in the world at Bell 2 Lodge
www.steelhead-fishing.net
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: Facet Boost Pump Fuses |
At 09:36 AM 7/15/2010, you wrote:
>
>Hi!
>
>
>I asked if putting a 5A in would work. The Facet dude said it
>probably would work, but it'd increase the chance of wrecking the
>coil, but wouldn't get hot enough to start a fire.
That is . . . shall we say . . . no . . . I'll be civil.
First, supply fuse (at least in an airplane) is never
intended to protect devices . . . only wiring.
>I have 15-20' round trip of 20awg wire going to it, so I know a 5A
>fuse would protect the wire. I plan on using this as a boost pump
>for my mechanical, turning it on before startup, check the
>pressure, then some seconds later crank the engine. It would then be
>turned off at altitude and back on for landing. The boost pump is
>near the bottom of the cowl, ~1' below the mechanical pump. They are
>in series with no recirculation, so it would be pumping with no flow
>until cranking.
If it's 20AWG, put a 7A fuse in an don't loose
any sleep over it. Having too robust a feeder
protection cannot put anything inside the pump
at risk.
>The fuses I'm thinking of are the fast ATO/ATC style. I could go
>with slower 3AG fuses, if there is a any advantage in doing this. I
>assume that if the Facet is pumping against a closed valve a couple
>feet downstream it would in a few seconds reach its max current
>draw. I haven't heard of anyone wrecking their boost pump, just a
>few that blew 3A fuses.
>
>I'm waiting for Facet to return my emailed questions. I also could
>bench test this pump with my VOM and see what the current draw really is.
We had a thread on this topic some months ago. The
current draw by solenoid pumps is pulsed. I cited
a number of patents that go back to the 50s or earlier.
The first devices had mechanical contacts that pulsed
the coil when the fuel pumping piston approached end
of stroke thus pulling the piston back against a spring
for another stroke. The energy consumption of these
pumps WAS somewhat dependent in fuel flow. You could
hear the stroke-rate go up as flow increased.
Modern pumps are all solid state, no switches and
simply pulse the coil so many times per minute irrespective
of flow rate. If the flow is high, the piston strokes
long in the bore. If the flow is low, the piston barely
moves with each pulsed and tends to stay in the max
compressed end of the stroke.
Trying to get any sort of current measurement on
on of these things by watching a meter is meaningless.
It will be all over the place. A true ENERGY
measurement must be made with some RMS type ammeter
having a very long time constant . . . or a fast
data acquisition system that will secure a sufficiently
verbose data stream to do bit-wise integration of
current values.
I've got that on my list of things to do . . . in fact,
there's a Facet pump on my bench loaned to me by a
generous Lister for that purpose. I tried to get
real engineering data from Facet on several occasions
with no success. I'm doubtful that anyone there
even understood the question.
Nonetheless, the have been building a really slick,
trouble-free product for a very long time. You don't
have to know how it all works to serve great hamburgers,
fries and a shake . . . just follow directions. It's
the ISO way.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
It happens in flight
Can't reset the breaker or replace the fuse
you know this application has but one remedy
install a mechanical AOA and learn how to use it
Always be proficient in no flap landings to a point where it will not be
a big deal to do it. Practice it four or five times a month to maintain
the proficiency
Now chew my a__ for saying this
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: ray <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:10 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Criti
cal Item
FWIW
Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an overload
resulting in a blown CB?
Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an overload
resulting in a blown CB?
Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be
cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or
> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite
> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap
> motor?
>
> That makes my decision easy.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
> Critical Item
>
>
> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open
> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker
> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the
> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to
> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only
> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting
> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip.
>
>
>
> Bob McC
>
>> From: khorton01@rogers.com
>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission
>> Critical Item
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>
>> --> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't
>
>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB?
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Horton
>> Ottawa, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14,<longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a
>>> breaker for a mission critical item.
>>>
>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell
>
>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm
>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker.
>>>
>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without
>
>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a
>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose.
>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able
>
>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway
>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons.
>>>
>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no
>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and
> fly it in.
>>>
>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have
>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that
>>> option with a breaker on the panel?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ============
> ============
> ============
> ============
>>
>>
>>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item |
[quote="raymondj(at)frontiernet.n"Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest,
or ????) that might be
cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps?
I'm in favor of a resettable CB.
[/quote]
Sure, some conditions could be cleared by multiple attempts to reset CBs. If the
CB has popped for a good reason, multiple attempts to reset it could start
an electrical fire (witness the Air Canada DC-9 accident in Cincinatii many years
ago, where multiple CB reset attempts started an in-flight fire which killed
many people). I'd rather do a zero flaps landing than do multiple CB resets
and risk an in-flight fire. If a zero flap landing is more risky than an in-flight
fire, then there is a problem somewhere.
Kevin Horton
--------
Kevin Horton RV-8
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305011#305011
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Subject: | Facet Boost Pump Fuses |
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:40 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Facet Boost Pump Fuses
>
> --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:36 AM 7/15/2010, you wrote:
> >--> <messydeer@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Hi!
> >
> >
> >I asked if putting a 5A in would work. The Facet dude said
> it probably
> >would work, but it'd increase the chance of wrecking the coil, but
> >wouldn't get hot enough to start a fire.
>
> That is . . . shall we say . . . no . . . I'll be civil.
> First, supply fuse (at least in an airplane) is never
> intended to protect devices . . . only wiring.
>
>
> >I have 15-20' round trip of 20awg wire going to it, so I
> know a 5A fuse
> >would protect the wire. I plan on using this as a boost pump for my
> >mechanical, turning it on before startup, check the pressure, then
> >some seconds later crank the engine. It would then be turned off at
> >altitude and back on for landing. The boost pump is near the
> bottom of
> >the cowl, ~1' below the mechanical pump. They are in series with no
> >recirculation, so it would be pumping with no flow until cranking.
>
> If it's 20AWG, put a 7A fuse in an don't loose
> any sleep over it. Having too robust a feeder
> protection cannot put anything inside the pump
> at risk.
>
Would this reasoning not lead to running "really" robust feeders/fuses, and
then a fuel pump (or other device) with and internal problem that is
generating a lot of heat (fire/smoke)?
I agree that we're not trying to 'save/protect' the pump, rather trying to
prevent smokeing wires, but a smokeing load can be a big problem, too.
-john-
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Subject: | Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical |
Item
>My philosophy is that if it is possible to overload the circuit, such as
>with a motor, then a CB is permissible.
It is POSSIBLE that any circuit in the airplane can
become overloaded. It's also possible that any circuit
in the airplane can become simply inoperable. I would
presume that worrisome things like landing gear have
some means for extension that are not dependent on
power . . .is this not the case in your airplane?
> If it is a non-varying load, such as a light, no reset
????? what's non-varying have to do with it? If its
a system/device that's exceptionally useful in reducing
risk for comfortable termination of flight, then it's
customary to have a plan-B for dealing with the loss
of that system.
If it's "critical", then you better have a back up
for total loss of that system irrespective off
root cause. To limit the failure studies to nuisance
tripping of a breaker leaves a lot of rocks un-turned.
Bob . . .
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