---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/15/10: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - RV12 Wire lists (Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell) 2. 06:40 AM - Re: LV warn light snafu? (messydeer) 3. 07:37 AM - Facet Boost Pump Fuses (messydeer) 4. 07:39 AM - Z Figure Inconsistencies (Gordon Smith) 5. 08:15 AM - Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item () 6. 08:17 AM - ANL Fuse holder (jonlaury) 7. 09:26 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Kevin Horton) 8. 10:07 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item () 9. 10:11 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item () 10. 10:43 AM - (wschertz@comcast.net) 11. 11:24 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item () 12. 11:49 AM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Jared Yates) 13. 12:11 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (ray) 14. 12:33 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item () 15. 12:50 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 16. 01:05 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Franz Fux) 17. 02:15 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Jay Hyde) 18. 02:40 PM - Re: Facet Boost Pump Fuses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 03:13 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (rgent1224@aol.com) 20. 06:32 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (khorton) 21. 07:20 PM - Re: Facet Boost Pump Fuses (John Loram) 22. 08:20 PM - Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:44 AM PST US From: "Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RV12 Wire lists I am disappointed that Van's refuses to provide wire lists for RV12 harnesses and the RV12 Control panel connectors. It will make it very difficult to do maintenance. Has anybody developed wire lists for the RV12. Roger ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:09 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LV warn light snafu? From: "messydeer" Thanks, Bob :-) It was a big relief for sure to figure that out. It'll be at least a few months before engine startup. My goal is to get it in the air next year. I do have another electrical question that I'll post on a different thread, though. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304884#304884 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:34 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Boost Pump Fuses From: "messydeer" Hi! I'm wondering what size fuse to use for my Facet 40104 boost pump. I talked to somebody in their engineering department and he said 3 is recommended. I told him I'd heard of a couple people blowing 3A fuses in a 40105. They replaced it with a 5A and had no further problems. For some reason Facet is stingy with documentation. They list 20 or more pumps and give only their psi and gph ranges individually, then lump them all together and say they draw an average of 1.6A. The 04 I have is the smallest, with the 05 only slightly bigger. http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=7&id=16&Itemid=31 I asked if putting a 5A in would work. The Facet dude said it probably would work, but it'd increase the chance of wrecking the coil, but wouldn't get hot enough to start a fire. I have 15-20' round trip of 20awg wire going to it, so I know a 5A fuse would protect the wire. I plan on using this as a boost pump for my mechanical, turning it on before startup, check the pressure, then some seconds later crank the engine. It would then be turned off at altitude and back on for landing. The boost pump is near the bottom of the cowl, ~1' below the mechanical pump. They are in series with no recirculation, so it would be pumping with no flow until cranking. The fuses I'm thinking of are the fast ATO/ATC style. I could go with slower 3AG fuses, if there is a any advantage in doing this. I assume that if the Facet is pumping against a closed valve a couple feet downstream it would in a few seconds reach its max current draw. I haven't heard of anyone wrecking their boost pump, just a few that blew 3A fuses. I'm waiting for Facet to return my emailed questions. I also could bench test this pump with my VOM and see what the current draw really is. Suggestions? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304897#304897 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:19 AM PST US From: "Gordon Smith" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z Figure Inconsistencies I think the following questions relate to the current string with the subject: "ANL current limiter location on rear battery Installations." I think that item number 1. below relates to Bob's answer in the above string where he comments: "The e-bus alternate feed wire is longer, smaller gage and capable of being fault-powered from either end." And item number 2. below relates to an inconsistency with Bob's answer in the above string where he comments: "Further, we don't want a fault on the alternate feed path wire to open both the alternate and normal feed paths. Hence NO protection in the normal path and SHORT wires there too." RESEND - Originally sent on 21 June & 24 June when Bob N. was tied up with his monster garage sale. I find some inconsistencies regarding E-Bus feeds and I can't understand the physics that might drive the decision for these differences. Or are they just items that need to be updated in the future? 1. The wire from the E-Bus Alternate Feed Switch (or relay) to the E-Bus: In most cases this wire connects to the E-Bus directly at the bolt, with no protection between the E-Bus bolt and the other end. In two cases it is different. In Z10-8 it connects at the E-Bus through a fuse on the E-Bus. In Z13-8 it connects to the E-Bus bolt through a Fuselink at the bolt. It seems to me that this wire will likely be more than 6 inches (especially when coming from a panel mounted switch). It seems to me that this wire should be protected at the E-Bus when the E-Bus is hot from the Main Bus Feed and the E-Bus Alternate Feed is open. However, I don't know which is the favored method (Fuse or Fuselink). 2. The wire from the Main Bus to the E-Bus main feed Diode: In all cases except one this wire comes directly from the Main Bus Bolt to the Diode, with no protection (in most cases it is marked to be less than 6 inches). In the Z19 figures, this wire comes from the Main Bus through a fuse on the Main Bus and then to the main feed Diode. Is this because it is assumed that this wire will likely be longer than 6 inches? If the E-Bus and Main Bus could be close to each other and the Diode could this wire be as in the other Z figures? Gordon Smith ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:42 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a breaker for a mission critical item. Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not worried about one more $20 breaker. Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in. My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option with a breaker on the panel? Thanks, Glenn ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL Fuse holder From: "jonlaury" While ANL current limiters are currently at the top of this list, thought I'd relate my experience with the holders of these devices. If you are considering the inexpensive, clear acrylic torpedo-shape holders, DON'T. The design uses a screw to pinch the fat wire in the supplied metal wire end/ANL end. Once the ANL device is in place and your wire ends are clamped down (I elected to solder mine), you screw the two plastic end pieces to the body and end up with an enclosed, transparent housing. Sounds good, looks good, but the wire terminal anti-rotation device failed on both ends on two units and the ANL fuse broke. These units are OK for the auto stereo systems they're designed for, but totally inadequate for holding on to a wire that's being thrashed about by an engine on a dynafocal mount. I ended up using scrap 1/8" fiberglass lamination and two AN screws/nuts to make an easy simple, small, light, strong and cheap homegrown replacement. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304907#304907 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:28 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: > > Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a > breaker for a mission critical item. > > Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me > on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not > worried about one more $20 breaker. > > Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situation > of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix that > problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the wing > cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So, all > is well when the flap motor has electrons. > > No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergency > dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in. > > My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to > fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option > with a breaker on the panel? > > Thanks, > > Glenn > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:49 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: The plan is as I defined below. Find a long runway. If I have a CB I get at least one chance to reset. Is it worth one chance? Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:23 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: > > Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a > breaker for a mission critical item. > > Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me > on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not > worried about one more $20 breaker. > > Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situation > of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix that > problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the wing > cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So, all > is well when the flap motor has electrons. > > No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergency > dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in. > > My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to > fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option > with a breaker on the panel? > > Thanks, > > Glenn > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:48 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item And further to that =2C how or why would either a fuse or breaker open such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker opens t hen likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the protective d evice to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to restore flap functi onality anyway. Protective devices normally only operate for just cause=2C and if you don't repair the root cause resetting the device accomplishes no thing other than an additional trip. Bob McC > From: khorton01@rogers.com > Date: Thu=2C 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Crit ical Item > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > om> > > What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why > wouldn't the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor > CB? > > -- > Kevin Horton > Ottawa=2C Canada > > > > On Thu=2C Jul 15=2C 2010 at 11:14=2C wrote: > > > > Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a > > breaker for a mission critical item. > > > > Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell me > > on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm not > > worried about one more $20 breaker. > > > > Problem: My aircraft=2C Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > > flaps=3B not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a situati on > > of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. Flaps fix tha t > > problem in that they provide the option of being able to modify the win g > > cord such that you can see a bit of the runway during landing. So=2C al l > > is well when the flap motor has electrons. > > > > No=2C there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no emergen cy > > dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in. > > > > My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have to > > fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that option > > with a breaker on the panel? > > > > Thanks=2C > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:16 AM PST US From: wschertz@comcast.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: http://compulider.com.br/about.php ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: Thanks, Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap motor? That makes my decision easy. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. Bob McC > From: khorton01@rogers.com > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > --> > > What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't > the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? > > -- > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: > > > > Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a > > breaker for a mission critical item. > > > > Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell > > me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm > > not worried about one more $20 breaker. > > > > Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > > flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a > > situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. > > Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able > > to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway > > during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. > > > > No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no > > emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and fly it in. > > > > My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have > > to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that > > option with a breaker on the panel? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: Jared Yates To muddy the waters, I have reset the landing gear breaker on a twin comanche, which tripped because the wrong lube in the system had gotten cold and stiff, thus working the motor a bit too hard. You are the only one who can make the decision. On Jul 15, 2010, at 14:23, wrote: > > Thanks, > > Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or > replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite > sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap > motor? > > That makes my decision easy. > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > > > And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open > such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker > opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the > protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to > restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only > operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting > the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. > > > > Bob McC > >> From: khorton01@rogers.com >> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> >> --> >> >> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't > >> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >> >> -- >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>> >>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>> >>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell > >>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>> >>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > >>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able > >>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>> >>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and > fly it in. >>> >>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Glenn >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:27 PM PST US From: ray Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item FWIW Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an overload resulting in a blown CB? Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an overload resulting in a blown CB? Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? I'm in favor of a resettable CB. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Thanks, > > Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or > replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite > sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap > motor? > > That makes my decision easy. > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > > > And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open > such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker > opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the > protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to > restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only > operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting > the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. > > > Bob McC > >> From: khorton01@rogers.com >> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >> --> >> >> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't > >> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >> >> -- >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >>> >>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>> >>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell > >>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>> >>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > >>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able > >>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>> >>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and > fly it in. >>> >>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Glenn >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:37 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: Thanks All, Yes, I tend to agree - there must be some value (and a lot of memorable stories) in being able to reset flaps at least once. Sure, if a problem exists, or I see smoke - forget it, but for all the reasons mentioned it's worth $20. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item FWIW Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an overload resulting in a blown CB? Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an overload resulting in a blown CB? Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? I'm in favor of a resettable CB. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Thanks, > > Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or > replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite > sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap > motor? > > That makes my decision easy. > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > > > And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open > such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker > opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the > protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to > restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only > operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting > the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. > > > Bob McC > >> From: khorton01@rogers.com >> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >> --> >> >> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't > >> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >> >> -- >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >>> >>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>> >>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell > >>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>> >>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > >>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able > >>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>> >>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and > fly it in. >>> >>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Glenn >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:30 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item I have chosen to mainly use fuses on my (non-flying) RV10 with a Z-14. I do have 4 breakers in no particular order: #1 & #2 for 2 LRC3 regulators #3 for the autopilot which I consider a quick dis-connect switch #4 for the flaps I don't think a no-flap landing in '10 is a big deal but I came up with the same scenarios (high speed deployment, ice) which 'could' blow the circuit protection and justify a reset. My fuses are on two panels in the right seat leg well wall. I've been flying my Maule for over 10 years and 1300+ hours and never had a breaker pop. My thinking goes something like, "it probably won't happen in my lifetime, if it does on a CAVU day, land it and don't risk a fire, if does happen on a dark and stormy, use the backups to land it since you have like 3 layers of them" But I'm not flying it yet Bill "Polyurethaning" Watson Durham, NC ray wrote: > > FWIW > > Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an > overload resulting in a blown CB? > > Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an > overload resulting in a blown CB? > > Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might > be cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? > > I'm in favor of a resettable CB. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or >> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite >> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap >> motor? >> >> That makes my decision easy. >> >> Glenn E. Long >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> >> >> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open >> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker >> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the >> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to >> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only >> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting >> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. >> >> >> >> Bob McC >> >>> From: khorton01@rogers.com >>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >>> Critical Item >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >>> --> >>> >>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't >> >>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >>> >>> -- >>> Kevin Horton >>> Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >>>> >>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>>> >>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell >> >>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>>> >>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without >> >>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able >> >>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>>> >>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and >> fly it in. >>>> >>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Glenn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: Franz Fux Hi All, The one thing to consider is the fact that there is no harm done in landing with the flaps retracted. Therefore I see very little value in having the ability to reset the breaker or change the fuse if the flaps don't extend. Now of course we can look at the scenario where the flaps are extended already and the breaker or fuse blew during a full extension or when trying to retract. This would most likely be in a case during a go around in which case all hands are busy to fly the airplane anyway and the PIC should not distract himself with other things . Franz RV7A-450h On 15/07/10 12:30 PM, "longg@pjm.com" wrote: > > Thanks All, > > Yes, I tend to agree - there must be some value (and a lot of memorable > stories) in being able to reset flaps at least once. Sure, if a problem > exists, or I see smoke - forget it, but for all the reasons mentioned > it's worth $20. > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > > > FWIW > > Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an > overload resulting in a blown CB? > > Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an > overload resulting in a blown CB? > > Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be > > cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? > > I'm in favor of a resettable CB. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or >> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were > quite >> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap >> motor? >> >> That makes my decision easy. >> >> Glenn E. Long >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> >> >> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open >> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or > breaker >> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the >> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to >> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only >> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause > resetting >> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. >> >> >> >> Bob McC >> >>> From: khorton01@rogers.com >>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >>> Critical Item >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >>> --> >>> >>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why > wouldn't >> >>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >>> >>> -- >>> Kevin Horton >>> Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >>>> >>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>>> >>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell >> >>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>>> >>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without >> >>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able >> >>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>>> >>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and >> fly it in. >>>> >>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Glenn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > Franz Fux Director of Operations Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd. Bell 2 Lodge P.O. Box 1237 Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6 CANADA Office Contact T: (250) 558-7980 F: (250) 558-7981 Lodge Contact T: (250) 275-4770 F: (250) 275-4912 http://www.bell2lodge.com --- LAST FRONTIER Heliskiing www.lastfrontierheli.com --- And for some of the best Steelhead Fishing in the world at Bell 2 Lodge www.steelhead-fishing.net ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:57 PM PST US From: "Jay Hyde" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item I am also building a Legacy and I feel that there may be a possibility that the motor could be overloaded - more particularly with the landing gear which is hydraulic. Here the motor drives a hydraulic pack and I think that one may get an overload which could be due to a bit of dirt in the fluid or something like that. One reset may (?) allow this to be cleared and you can try again. Of course you also have the option, when needing to lower the gear, of a dump valve that allows the gear to swing free and down. It seems to me that flap loss in a Legacy can be a big deal so one reset should be allowed. The guy I am building for is an airline pilot and he wants to see breakers. After much persuasion I managed to convert him to the fuse options but threw in a bone with it; flaps and gear could have breakers. My philosophy is that if it is possible to overload the circuit, such as with a motor, then a CB is permissible. If it is a non-varying load, such as a light, no reset. Jay -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Franz Fux Sent: 15 July 2010 10:05 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item Hi All, The one thing to consider is the fact that there is no harm done in landing with the flaps retracted. Therefore I see very little value in having the ability to reset the breaker or change the fuse if the flaps don't extend. Now of course we can look at the scenario where the flaps are extended already and the breaker or fuse blew during a full extension or when trying to retract. This would most likely be in a case during a go around in which case all hands are busy to fly the airplane anyway and the PIC should not distract himself with other things . Franz RV7A-450h On 15/07/10 12:30 PM, "longg@pjm.com" wrote: > > Thanks All, > > Yes, I tend to agree - there must be some value (and a lot of memorable > stories) in being able to reset flaps at least once. Sure, if a problem > exists, or I see smoke - forget it, but for all the reasons mentioned > it's worth $20. > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > > > FWIW > > Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an > overload resulting in a blown CB? > > Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an > overload resulting in a blown CB? > > Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be > > cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? > > I'm in favor of a resettable CB. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or >> replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were > quite >> sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap >> motor? >> >> That makes my decision easy. >> >> Glenn E. Long >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> >> >> And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open >> such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or > breaker >> opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the >> protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to >> restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only >> operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause > resetting >> the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. >> >> >> >> Bob McC >> >>> From: khorton01@rogers.com >>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >>> Critical Item >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >>> --> >>> >>> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why > wouldn't >> >>> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >>> >>> -- >>> Kevin Horton >>> Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >>>> >>>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>>> >>>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell >> >>>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>>> >>>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without >> >>>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able >> >>>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>>> >>>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and >> fly it in. >>>> >>>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Glenn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > Franz Fux Director of Operations Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd. Bell 2 Lodge P.O. Box 1237 Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6 CANADA Office Contact T: (250) 558-7980 F: (250) 558-7981 Lodge Contact T: (250) 275-4770 F: (250) 275-4912 http://www.bell2lodge.com --- LAST FRONTIER Heliskiing www.lastfrontierheli.com --- And for some of the best Steelhead Fishing in the world at Bell 2 Lodge www.steelhead-fishing.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Facet Boost Pump Fuses At 09:36 AM 7/15/2010, you wrote: > >Hi! > > >I asked if putting a 5A in would work. The Facet dude said it >probably would work, but it'd increase the chance of wrecking the >coil, but wouldn't get hot enough to start a fire. That is . . . shall we say . . . no . . . I'll be civil. First, supply fuse (at least in an airplane) is never intended to protect devices . . . only wiring. >I have 15-20' round trip of 20awg wire going to it, so I know a 5A >fuse would protect the wire. I plan on using this as a boost pump >for my mechanical, turning it on before startup, check the >pressure, then some seconds later crank the engine. It would then be >turned off at altitude and back on for landing. The boost pump is >near the bottom of the cowl, ~1' below the mechanical pump. They are >in series with no recirculation, so it would be pumping with no flow >until cranking. If it's 20AWG, put a 7A fuse in an don't loose any sleep over it. Having too robust a feeder protection cannot put anything inside the pump at risk. >The fuses I'm thinking of are the fast ATO/ATC style. I could go >with slower 3AG fuses, if there is a any advantage in doing this. I >assume that if the Facet is pumping against a closed valve a couple >feet downstream it would in a few seconds reach its max current >draw. I haven't heard of anyone wrecking their boost pump, just a >few that blew 3A fuses. > >I'm waiting for Facet to return my emailed questions. I also could >bench test this pump with my VOM and see what the current draw really is. We had a thread on this topic some months ago. The current draw by solenoid pumps is pulsed. I cited a number of patents that go back to the 50s or earlier. The first devices had mechanical contacts that pulsed the coil when the fuel pumping piston approached end of stroke thus pulling the piston back against a spring for another stroke. The energy consumption of these pumps WAS somewhat dependent in fuel flow. You could hear the stroke-rate go up as flow increased. Modern pumps are all solid state, no switches and simply pulse the coil so many times per minute irrespective of flow rate. If the flow is high, the piston strokes long in the bore. If the flow is low, the piston barely moves with each pulsed and tends to stay in the max compressed end of the stroke. Trying to get any sort of current measurement on on of these things by watching a meter is meaningless. It will be all over the place. A true ENERGY measurement must be made with some RMS type ammeter having a very long time constant . . . or a fast data acquisition system that will secure a sufficiently verbose data stream to do bit-wise integration of current values. I've got that on my list of things to do . . . in fact, there's a Facet pump on my bench loaned to me by a generous Lister for that purpose. I tried to get real engineering data from Facet on several occasions with no success. I'm doubtful that anyone there even understood the question. Nonetheless, the have been building a really slick, trouble-free product for a very long time. You don't have to know how it all works to serve great hamburgers, fries and a shake . . . just follow directions. It's the ISO way. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: rgent1224@aol.com It happens in flight Can't reset the breaker or replace the fuse you know this application has but one remedy install a mechanical AOA and learn how to use it Always be proficient in no flap landings to a point where it will not be a big deal to do it. Practice it four or five times a month to maintain the proficiency Now chew my a__ for saying this Dick -----Original Message----- From: ray Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 12:10 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Criti cal Item FWIW Could attempting to deploy flaps at too high a speed result in an overload resulting in a blown CB? Could attempting to deploy flaps with an ice buildup result in an overload resulting in a blown CB? Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? I'm in favor of a resettable CB. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. On 07/15/2010 01:23 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: > > Thanks, > > Ok, so we're all in agreement that either resetting a breaker or > replacing a fuse on flaps in flight is completely futile? And were quite > sure no one in history has recovered from a popped breaker on a flap > motor? > > That makes my decision easy. > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission > Critical Item > > > And further to that , how or why would either a fuse or breaker open > such that resetting would get the flaps working. If the fuse or breaker > opens then likely the flap motor or its wiring has failed causing the > protective device to operate and therefore resetting isn't going to > restore flap functionality anyway. Protective devices normally only > operate for just cause, and if you don't repair the root cause resetting > the device accomplishes nothing other than an additional trip. > > > > Bob McC > >> From: khorton01@rogers.com >> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:23:06 -0400 >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission >> Critical Item >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> >> --> >> >> What is your plan to deal with failure of the flap motor? Why wouldn't > >> the same plan be appropriate to deal with an open flap motor CB? >> >> -- >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:14, wrote: >>> >>> Goal: to determine if there is added value in being able to reset a >>> breaker for a mission critical item. >>> >>> Assumptions: I have plenty of fuse busses in my airplane (don't sell > >>> me on the fuse vs. breaker crap) and only a couple of breakers. I'm >>> not worried about one more $20 breaker. >>> >>> Problem: My aircraft, Lancair Legacy is not designed to land without > >>> flaps; not even just for fun. If you do you put yourself in a >>> situation of a high speed landing with no visibility over the nose. >>> Flaps fix that problem in that they provide the option of being able > >>> to modify the wing cord such that you can see a bit of the runway >>> during landing. So, all is well when the flap motor has electrons. >>> >>> No, there is no Piper J bar on a Legacy. Electric only and no >>> emergency dump option. The only option is to find a long runway and > fly it in. >>> >>> My question: Am I at negative odds using a fuse which I might have >>> to fish for if my flaps go out during flight or do I replace that >>> option with a breaker on the panel? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Glenn >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > ============ > ============ > ============ > ============ >> >> >> > > > > > > > ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:43 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item From: "khorton" [quote="raymondj(at)frontiernet.n"Could there be any other conditions (bird's nest, or ????) that might be cleared during flight or by multiple attempts to deploy flaps? I'm in favor of a resettable CB. [/quote] Sure, some conditions could be cleared by multiple attempts to reset CBs. If the CB has popped for a good reason, multiple attempts to reset it could start an electrical fire (witness the Air Canada DC-9 accident in Cincinatii many years ago, where multiple CB reset attempts started an in-flight fire which killed many people). I'd rather do a zero flaps landing than do multiple CB resets and risk an in-flight fire. If a zero flap landing is more risky than an in-flight fire, then there is a problem somewhere. Kevin Horton -------- Kevin Horton RV-8 Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305011#305011 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:07 PM PST US From: "John Loram" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Facet Boost Pump Fuses > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:40 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Facet Boost Pump Fuses > > --> > > At 09:36 AM 7/15/2010, you wrote: > >--> > > > >Hi! > > > > > >I asked if putting a 5A in would work. The Facet dude said > it probably > >would work, but it'd increase the chance of wrecking the coil, but > >wouldn't get hot enough to start a fire. > > That is . . . shall we say . . . no . . . I'll be civil. > First, supply fuse (at least in an airplane) is never > intended to protect devices . . . only wiring. > > > >I have 15-20' round trip of 20awg wire going to it, so I > know a 5A fuse > >would protect the wire. I plan on using this as a boost pump for my > >mechanical, turning it on before startup, check the pressure, then > >some seconds later crank the engine. It would then be turned off at > >altitude and back on for landing. The boost pump is near the > bottom of > >the cowl, ~1' below the mechanical pump. They are in series with no > >recirculation, so it would be pumping with no flow until cranking. > > If it's 20AWG, put a 7A fuse in an don't loose > any sleep over it. Having too robust a feeder > protection cannot put anything inside the pump > at risk. > Would this reasoning not lead to running "really" robust feeders/fuses, and then a fuel pump (or other device) with and internal problem that is generating a lot of heat (fire/smoke)? I agree that we're not trying to 'save/protect' the pump, rather trying to prevent smokeing wires, but a smokeing load can be a big problem, too. -john- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:12 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel Accessible breaker for Mission Critical Item >My philosophy is that if it is possible to overload the circuit, such as >with a motor, then a CB is permissible. It is POSSIBLE that any circuit in the airplane can become overloaded. It's also possible that any circuit in the airplane can become simply inoperable. I would presume that worrisome things like landing gear have some means for extension that are not dependent on power . . .is this not the case in your airplane? > If it is a non-varying load, such as a light, no reset ????? what's non-varying have to do with it? If its a system/device that's exceptionally useful in reducing risk for comfortable termination of flight, then it's customary to have a plan-B for dealing with the loss of that system. If it's "critical", then you better have a back up for total loss of that system irrespective off root cause. To limit the failure studies to nuisance tripping of a breaker leaves a lot of rocks un-turned. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.