---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/26/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - Re: Electrical System Schematic Review (jonlaury) 2. 07:15 AM - 4 into 1 dsub connector (Chris Hukill) 3. 07:41 AM - Re: Low Voltage Warning Light (Mike Fontenot) 4. 08:59 AM - Another One (Harley) 5. 09:13 AM - Re: Another One (JOHN TIPTON) 6. 09:54 AM - Re: Another One (Harley) 7. 01:09 PM - Maybe a rewrite? (Fergus Kyle) 8. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Electrical System Schematic Review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 03:39 PM - Re: Maybe a rewrite? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 03:54 PM - Re: 4 into 1 dsub connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 06:26 PM - Re: Electrical System Schematic Review (jonlaury) 12. 10:37 PM - Stan's concerns for starter contactor locations (revisited) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:54 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electrical System Schematic Review From: "jonlaury" Z-Laury...I like it! I need to get up to speed on the 9024 OVM and what it is capable of. I already have an LR-3 that I was planning to use on the 60a alt. This architecture is so simple that I hate to kluge it up, but I want a GPJ so I will insert my GP /SB alt B lead contactor schematic and eliminate the SB alt B lead diode. Why is the 9024 more fuse friendly and why does it obviate the need for an alt field CB? Are you still seeing all engine essential power coming from the battery bus? Ironic that this evolution started with my wanting to use Z-13/20 and you informed me that you had pulled that Z-figure from the AEC book. Cheers, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306290#306290 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:31 AM PST US From: "Chris Hukill" Subject: AeroElectric-List: 4 into 1 dsub connector I'm wiring my RV10 for the Dynon network and am looking for a source for a high quality (OBAM) 9 pin Dsub connector that would split into 4. The Dynon solution is multiple 2 into 1 harnesses, but a 4 into 1 splitter would be a more elegant solution, if such a device exists. The ribbon mount connectors that Bob had on the list isn't appropriate for aircraft critical systems, I believe, nor is the ribbon of sufficient gauge, but a solid multi connector would be. All the normal searches have struck out for me, but maybe someone knows a source? Chris Hukill ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warning Light From: Mike Fontenot For a low voltage light you are unable to ignore I installed on of these Whelen stroble/flasters with my LR3 regular. Sits on the say, even a blind dog can see it when it goes off. http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=GR309 On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 10:11 PM 7/24/2010, you wrote: > >> >> Bob, >> I am using an LR3 voltage regulator and a B&C 60 A alternator. Is it >> acceptable to change out the supplied warning light for a red 12 volt led? >> > > Yes, but the circuitry in the LR3 was designed > to drive incandescent bulbs. You'll need to > add some resistors to the LED circuit such that > the LED mimics the bulb. See: > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg > > It would be in my direct line of sight so I do not think the lack of >> blinking would be an issue. That is if the blinking is a function of the >> light and not the regulator. Please let me know if there would be >> problems >> with using an led and if it would blink/ >> > > > The flasher is built into the LR3. > > > Bob . . . > > -- Mike =============================== Mike Fontenot Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood, Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com =============================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:05 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Another One Morning, Everyone... Last item for awhile. I just listed my never used or even powered up Trutrak Turn and Bank for sale on eBay. The Dynon I now have includes these features, so I won't need it. This model is now selling for $495. I have no minimum and no reserve (well, I guess the minimum is the current bid! ), so, as before with the EMS, someone is going to get a real deal! For ALL the details and several pictures, just search eBay for the item number 350376359107. Or just search using the term "Trutrak"...there are a couple of them listed, but mine is the low price one! Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ Canandaigua, NY ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:19 AM PST US From: "JOHN TIPTON" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another One Hi Harley You don't seem to have included any postage details for outside the US. Reagrds John (England) ----- Original Message ----- From: Harley To: undisclosed-recipients: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 4:58 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Another One Morning, Everyone... Last item for awhile. I just listed my never used or even powered up Trutrak Turn and Bank for sale on eBay. The Dynon I now have includes these features, so I won't need it. This model is now selling for $495. I have no minimum and no reserve (well, I guess the minimum is the current bid! ), so, as before with the EMS, someone is going to get a real deal! For ALL the details and several pictures, just search eBay for the item number 350376359107. Or just search using the term "Trutrak"...there are a couple of them listed, but mine is the low price one! Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ Canandaigua, NY ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:31 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another One You're right, John... I've just revised it, so they should be there shortly. I drew this listing up from scratch instead of using a template, and looks like I forgot to add the worldwide calculations to it...even though the listing description does mention worldwide shipping, it doesn't allow for actual numbers! Thanks for bringing that up and I apologize.. Harley ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 7/26/2010 12:09 PM, JOHN TIPTON wrote: > Hi Harley > You don't seem to have included any postage details for outside > the US. > Reagrds > John (England) > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Harley > *To:* undisclosed-recipients: > *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 4:58 PM > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Another One > > Morning, Everyone... > > Last item for awhile. I just listed my never used or even > powered up Trutrak Turn and Bank for sale on eBay. The > Dynon I now have includes these features, so I won't need it. > > This model is now selling for $495. I have no minimum and > no reserve (well, I guess the minimum is the current bid! > ), so, as before with the EMS, someone is going to get a > real deal! > > For ALL the details and several pictures, just search eBay > for the item number 350376359107. Or just search using the > term "Trutrak"...there are a couple of them listed, but > mine is the low price one! > > Harley Dixon > Long EZ N28EZ > Canandaigua, NY > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:34 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Maybe a rewrite? Bob, You were writing Stan Sutterfield about contactors and this was a quote: " Battery contactors are continuous duty devices and have significant temperature rise above ambient." Cheers, Ferg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:59 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electrical System Schematic Review At 02:15 AM 7/26/2010, you wrote: > >Z-Laury...I like it! >I need to get up to speed on the 9024 OVM and what it is capable of. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9024/ >I already have an LR-3 that I was planning to use on the 60a alt. Hmmmm . . . okay, the LR3 has crowbar ov protection so you'll need to configure for the panel breaker . . . >This architecture is so simple that I hate to kluge it up, but I >want a GPJ so I will insert my GP /SB alt B lead contactor >schematic and eliminate the SB alt B lead diode. Would you plan to close two switches to bring the aux alternator on line? You need one switch to control the aux alternator field supply. If You double-up on the ground power contactor functionality, then selecting the aux alternator requires an feature that closes that contactor too. Let me ponder this a bit. >Why is the 9024 more fuse friendly and why does it obviate the need >for an alt field CB? Because it doesn't "crowbar" it "breaks". If you simply switch off the alternator, then there's no risk to nuisance tripping a field supply fuse so crew accessible reset is unnecessary. This is a throwback to ov protection of yesteryear (the very first product I qualified for use on a TC aircraft was an OV relay in 1975 or thereabouts). The crowbar configuration came about as a parts reduction scheme that was readily adaptable to aircraft that already used circuit breakers. It got sticky when those slightly demented OBAM aircraft guys renewed the romance with fuses. While the 9024 is designed to drive (ugh!) relays, it's broad applicability as a contactor power controller, ABMM, LVWarn and OVProtection, device renewed some interest in relays . . . this was further enhanced by the availability of automotive grade relays that are inexpensive while being also robust. In a sense, incorporation of microprocessors into a single, multi-application accessory has re-opened the books on 'older' technologies that were (and still are) on the hit list for new designs in some venues. But my grandpa would remind me that for all the pneumatic nail and brad drivers I now possess, sometimes the best way to drive some nails is with a hammer! > Are you still seeing all engine essential power coming from the battery bus? Yes. >Ironic that this evolution started with my wanting to use Z-13/20 >and you informed me that you had pulled that Z-figure from the AEC book. Yeah . . . see what can happen when one breaks a fixation on a bad idea and starts with a clean slate? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:03 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Maybe a rewrite? At 03:06 PM 7/26/2010, you wrote: >Bob, > > You were writing Stan Sutterfield about contactors and this > was a quote: > >" Battery contactors are continuous duty devices and have significant > > temperature rise above ambient." Hmmm. . . . thanks for the heads-up. I'm not sure how I do it but occasionally a thought being typed gets truncated after the keystrokes are in and I don't catch it. Maybe too much coffee? I'll be back in my M.L. office tonight, I'll go get that post and fix it. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 4 into 1 dsub connector At 09:12 AM 7/26/2010, you wrote: >I'm wiring my RV10 for the Dynon network and am looking for a source >for a high quality (OBAM) 9 pin Dsub connector that would split into >4. The Dynon solution is multiple 2 into 1 harnesses, but a 4 into >1 splitter would be a more elegant solution, if such a device >exists. The ribbon mount connectors that Bob had on the list isn't >appropriate for aircraft critical systems, I believe, nor is the >ribbon of sufficient gauge, but a solid multi connector would be. >All the normal searches have struck out for me, but maybe someone >knows a source? Those are generally fabricated by individuals who have the application. Suggest you consider ExpressPCB layouts to mount an array of the necessary connectors on a single board. See: http://expresspcb.com/ If you're not inclined to become a board layout person, I or perhaps someone else on the List could do the layout for you. A minimum order from ExpressPCB would get you 6 or more of the necessary boards for $59. Emacs! Be advised that this will only work to gang like-sexed connectors. When you put rows of connectors on "combed" traces, pin 1 will be connected to pin 1 of all other connectors only if they're the same gender. The ribbon cable adapter was intended for test purposes only. I've used a lot of mass-terminated ribbon cable in test setups but not for qualified production. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:01 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electrical System Schematic Review From: "jonlaury" > Would you plan to close two switches to bring > the aux alternator on line? You need one switch > to control the aux alternator field supply. If > You double-up on the ground power contactor > functionality, then selecting the aux alternator > requires an feature that closes that contactor > too. Let me ponder this a bit. In the 9th post of this thread, beginning "Bob and Joe..." I attached Z-12 w/SB Alt contactor. I would wire the two contactors through a DPST as drawn with a 9024 instead of the OVM module > Are you still seeing all engine essential power coming from the battery bus? > > Yes. I was tapping power from the Ebus and Batt bus to diode bridges to drive my single EFI ECU, and on another circuit the EFI Injectors. It seems that nothing changes with engine essentials all on the battery bus. The redundancy of power sources is just happening upstream of the batt bus and I still use two DPST switches feeding the diode bridges, w/ ECU and Injector legs on each switch to eliminate a single point of failure, i.e. the switch. I'm feeling very comfortable with this scheme. J Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306395#306395 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stan's concerns for starter contactor locations (revisited) Quote: Bob, For a starter contactor mounted on the engine firewall, can I anticipate any problems if the hot air from the oil cooler (180-200 deg F) is directed onto the contactor? Thanks, Stan Sutterfield Stan, Ferg looked at my previous posting on your query and thought that I might do a better job . . . got my tongue tangled around my eyeteeth and couldn't see what I was typing . . . or some such excuse. Let's try again ------------------------ No, the starter contactor is not generally used during flight and it's internal temperatures will be no hotter than the ambient. Actual in-flight temperatures may not be as hot as you think. Just for grins, it would be cool to measure and document the highest observed temperatures on selected components like the starter contactor, gascolator, magneto housings, any electro-whizzies, etc. under the cowl during a fly-off. You need to record OAT and local ambient under the cowl so that any single measurement can be correct for other weather conditions. I think the results will surprise you. On the other hand, battery contators are continuous duty devices and exhibit significant temperature rise above ambient. Since service life is influenced by temperature, it's always good to minimize exposure to high ambients. But at the same time, the el-cheapo contactors we've been using for decades seem to perform well under the cowl. Once our 9024 series contactor power manager is in stock, one could use it to greatly reduce the temperature rise (and energy demands) for keeping the el-cheepo contactor closed. This functionality emulates the much more expensive "low power" contactors. Further, when and if contactor replacement is necessary, you just replace a contactor . . . not the contactor + smart control electronics. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.