---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/29/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:03 AM - intermittent intercom () 2. 04:59 AM - Re: E-Bus Off/On Indicator Light (gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com) 3. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: E-Bus Off/On Indicator Light (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 11:21 AM - Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Andrew Zachar) 5. 11:53 AM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Bill Boyd) 6. 12:30 PM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Andrew Zachar) 7. 12:34 PM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) () 8. 12:48 PM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Andrew Zachar) 9. 02:06 PM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Dj Merrill) 10. 03:03 PM - Re: dual bus, single battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 05:54 PM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Grosseair) 12. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: dual bus, single battery (Andrew Zachar) 13. 07:06 PM - Re: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) (Dj Merrill) 14. 10:58 PM - How to wire a LED to a LR3C (rparigoris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:47 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: intermittent intercom 7/29/2010 Hello Erich, You wrote: 1) "Doesnt that in itself indicate that the problem is indeed internal to the intercom?" Not quite. 2) "Given those symptoms, is there really anything else to check before sending the unit back to the manufacturer?" Yes, make absolutely sure that it is not a headset problem. I trouble shot my intermittent PS intercom / radio system extensively and communicated with the PS factory who agreed to let me send it to them for a rather expensive set fee for checkout and repair. But luckily before I sent it off I discovered with a headset swap that I had an intemittent wire connection inside one of my headsets. Please let us know what fixes the problem. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: The Lightspeed headset company did a superb job of repairing and updating the long time out of warranty faulty headset at only the cost of shipping it to them -- great customer service. ===================================================== Time: 08:53:22 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: intermittent intercom From: Erich_Weaver@urscorp.com Feeling dumb about this question, but what the heck. My SL-40 radio is wired to a PS Engineering PM1000 II intercom. Everything initially wor ked well, but the intercom function is now intermittent from the pilots microphone side only. Transmit and reception are still fine. I cleane d the headphone plugs and corresponding socket contacts with no change. I have also made an initial inquiry with PS Engineering, who indicated th at the intercom circuit was dead simple and the unit itself was very unlik ely to be the problem. However, I have now realized that I often can temporarily fix the problem by turning the intercom power off, then bac k on once or twice. Doesnt that in itself indicate that the problem is inde ed internal to the intercom? Given those symptoms, is there really anythi ng else to check before sending the unit back to the manufacturer? thanks erich ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus Off/On Indicator Light From: "gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com" The design goal for this light: This light is to be an indicator that the E-bus alternate feed switch is in the on position even though in most cases there would be other indications. My thought go to shutting down and exiting the aircraft. Although I would never do this some pilots have been known to leave the master on. The LV warning light would be an indication that the master is on. The exiting check list would be "All Lights Off!" I am also considering the use of a Brownout Battery employed as in Z10-8. I envision turning the E-bus alternate switch on to load flight plans, communicate, etc. before turning on the master and starting the engine. The E-bus alternate feed would be left on during cranking to start in order for the anti-brownout feature to function. The light would be a reminder to turn off the E-bus alternate feed switch after start. Although, I guess it would not be a great sin if it were left on continuously during aircraft operation. Gordon Smith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306653#306653 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus Off/On Indicator Light Design goals: This light is to be an indicator that the E-bus alternate feed switch is in the on position even though in most cases there would be other indications. I am also considering the use of a Brownout Battery employed as in Z10-8. I envision turning the E-bus alternate switch on to load flight plans, communicate, etc. before turning on the master and starting the engine. The E-bus alternate feed would be left on during cranking to start in order for the anti-brownout feature to function. The light would be a reminder to turn off the E-bus alternate feed switch after start. Okay, the idea is to annunciate a closed switch that controls a relay. The best way to do that is put the lamp across the coil of that relay. Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:09 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Andrew Zachar Ladies and Gentlemen, I am just finishing up my emp kit, but am having a lot of fun researching and pondering some of the electron-shuffling related questions for the distant future. I've read the 'Connection once through (I realize I have 5 more times through before stuff will start settling in for good), but wanted to throw something out their for constructive criticism. I have not had enough time to really think through all of its implications yet, but I wanted to run it by everyone to see if there are any large gaps in judgement or understanding. I'll bold my primary questions toward the end of the email. A little background... 1) I like the avionics master switch, but intend on dual feeding the avionics bus per the single point of failure concern. 2) I am not planning on a vacuum system, so the prospect of a backup 8A or 20A alternator is hard to turn down. 3) Aircraft is an IFR, glass, RV-7, and weight will be an issue (I realize the image I've linked below is very close to Z-14, but I can't make the leap to dual battery, dual alternator.) 4) I have not laid out all of the load (current) requirements for now, I'm just being philosophical about layout concept. This is my proposed setup, simplified greatly. Two busses, two alternators, but single battery. Here's a link to an image of my visio file: http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/n999za-electrical-concept.jpg If anyone wants the visio file, write me back and I'll email it to you directly. (No making fun of any erroneous electrical symbols...I am a mechanical engineer.) While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!), and I believe that with the right cockpit indications, I can load shed with switches and breakers pretty quickly. (Avionics bus OFF, Main bus OFF, turn off all switches and pull all breakers. Then Main bus ON, no smoke? Okay, let's slowly bring back essential systems. Avionics ON, no smoke? Good. Turn on essential avionics. Let's find somewhere to land...or maybe I'm comfortable continuing in good Wx...) My big questions: *1) Can I have a main alternator providing power on the main bus side and an aux alternator providing power on the avionics side, but both buses are connected through the battery?* *2) Even with the bus tie open, doesn't this really turn into one big bus through the battery?* *3) Will one of of the alternators really be supporting all of the loads if the voltage regulator setpoints are slightly different? Should I leave the aux alt switch OFF for normal operations, or keep it on with a low voltage regulator setpoint, and let it automatically "kick in" upon failure of the main alternator?* *4) Right now I have the main alternator powering the bus and battery through the main bus contactor, but the aux alternator is connected to the battery through the hot battery bus. If I use a 20A aux alternator, will I need to go through the avionics contactor instead of through the hot batter bus?* * * I realize my (perhaps unrequited) love of an AMS and interest in a vacuum pad alternator has pushed me into something very close to Z-14, so maybe I should just thinking about adding a second battery, however, I am not planning on an electric ignition only ignition system, so that level of redundancy might be overkill for me. (Planning regular mags, but with the g3i system I've been eyeing for a little while...). I have been comfortable flying in single-battery, single alternator installations in the soup for many years. Maybe I should just put everything on a single bus, have a backup alternator with a setpoint just below the main alternator, and be okay with everything going though a single battery contactor. Any initial reactions or suggestions? -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Bill Boyd Why not Z 13/8? On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Andrew Zachar wrote: > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > I am just finishing up my emp kit, but am having a lot of fun researching > and pondering some of the electron-shuffling related questions for the > distant future. I've read the 'Connection once through (I realize I have 5 > more times through before stuff will start settling in for good), but wanted > to throw something out their for constructive criticism. I have not had > enough time to really think through all of its implications yet, but I > wanted to run it by everyone to see if there are any large gaps in judgement > or understanding. I'll bold my primary questions toward the end of the > email. > > A little background... > 1) I like the avionics master switch, but intend on dual feeding the > avionics bus per the single point of failure concern. > 2) I am not planning on a vacuum system, so the prospect of a backup 8A or > 20A alternator is hard to turn down. > 3) Aircraft is an IFR, glass, RV-7, and weight will be an issue (I realize > the image I've linked below is very close to Z-14, but I can't make the leap > to dual battery, dual alternator.) > 4) I have not laid out all of the load (current) requirements for now, I'm > just being philosophical about layout concept. > > This is my proposed setup, simplified greatly. Two busses, two alternators, > but single battery. > > Here's a link to an image of my visio file: > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/n999za-electrical-concept.jpg > > If anyone wants the visio file, write me back and I'll email it to you > directly. > > (No making fun of any erroneous electrical symbols...I am a mechanical > engineer.) > > While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true > endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. > Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics > equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!), and I believe that with the > right cockpit indications, I can load shed with switches and breakers pretty > quickly. (Avionics bus OFF, Main bus OFF, turn off all switches and pull all > breakers. Then Main bus ON, no smoke? Okay, let's slowly bring back > essential systems. Avionics ON, no smoke? Good. Turn on essential avionics. > Let's find somewhere to land...or maybe I'm comfortable continuing in good > Wx...) > > My big questions: > *1) Can I have a main alternator providing power on the main bus side and > an aux alternator providing power on the avionics side, but both buses are > connected through the battery?* > *2) Even with the bus tie open, doesn't this really turn into one big bus > through the battery?* > *3) Will one of of the alternators really be supporting all of the loads > if the voltage regulator setpoints are slightly different? Should I leave > the aux alt switch OFF for normal operations, or keep it on with a low > voltage regulator setpoint, and let it automatically "kick in" upon failure > of the main alternator?* > *4) Right now I have the main alternator powering the bus and battery > through the main bus contactor, but the aux alternator is connected to the > battery through the hot battery bus. If I use a 20A aux alternator, will I > need to go through the avionics contactor instead of through the hot batter > bus?* > * > * > I realize my (perhaps unrequited) love of an AMS and interest in a vacuum > pad alternator has pushed me into something very close to Z-14, so maybe I > should just thinking about adding a second battery, however, I am not > planning on an electric ignition only ignition system, so that level of > redundancy might be overkill for me. (Planning regular mags, but with the > g3i system I've been eyeing for a little while...). > > I have been comfortable flying in single-battery, single alternator > installations in the soup for many years. Maybe I should just put everything > on a single bus, have a backup alternator with a setpoint just below the > main alternator, and be okay with everything going though a single battery > contactor. > > Any initial reactions or suggestions? > > > -- > Andrew Zachar > andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Andrew Zachar >From what I could gather, my main difference from Z-13/8 is that my avionics bus (e-bus) will be primarily fed through what Z-13/8 calls the alternate ebus feed, and the crossfeed I'm proposing will be for emergency use only, and allow each bus to be fed from eachother, as opposed to the single main-to-ebus direction (via diode) in Z-13/8. This way I think I am providing dual power paths to both busses (instead of just the ebus). One of my questions (which is also related to Z-13/8) is that with the battery contactor closed, the alternators are both connected to the battery. Does this mean they can't be running...."handling load" or "moving electrons" at the same time? Can I only have one on at a time? -az On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Bill Boyd wrote: > Why not Z 13/8? > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Andrew Zachar wrote: > >> Ladies and Gentlemen, >> >> I am just finishing up my emp kit, but am having a lot of fun researching >> and pondering some of the electron-shuffling related questions for the >> distant future. I've read the 'Connection once through (I realize I have 5 >> more times through before stuff will start settling in for good), but wanted >> to throw something out their for constructive criticism. I have not had >> enough time to really think through all of its implications yet, but I >> wanted to run it by everyone to see if there are any large gaps in judgement >> or understanding. I'll bold my primary questions toward the end of the >> email. >> >> A little background... >> 1) I like the avionics master switch, but intend on dual feeding the >> avionics bus per the single point of failure concern. >> 2) I am not planning on a vacuum system, so the prospect of a backup 8A or >> 20A alternator is hard to turn down. >> 3) Aircraft is an IFR, glass, RV-7, and weight will be an issue (I realize >> the image I've linked below is very close to Z-14, but I can't make the leap >> to dual battery, dual alternator.) >> 4) I have not laid out all of the load (current) requirements for now, I'm >> just being philosophical about layout concept. >> >> This is my proposed setup, simplified greatly. Two busses, two >> alternators, but single battery. >> >> Here's a link to an image of my visio file: >> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/n999za-electrical-concept.jpg >> >> If anyone wants the visio file, write me back and I'll email it to you >> directly. >> >> (No making fun of any erroneous electrical symbols...I am a mechanical >> engineer.) >> >> While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true >> endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. >> Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics >> equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!), and I believe that with the >> right cockpit indications, I can load shed with switches and breakers pretty >> quickly. (Avionics bus OFF, Main bus OFF, turn off all switches and pull all >> breakers. Then Main bus ON, no smoke? Okay, let's slowly bring back >> essential systems. Avionics ON, no smoke? Good. Turn on essential avionics. >> Let's find somewhere to land...or maybe I'm comfortable continuing in good >> Wx...) >> >> My big questions: >> *1) Can I have a main alternator providing power on the main bus side and >> an aux alternator providing power on the avionics side, but both buses are >> connected through the battery?* >> *2) Even with the bus tie open, doesn't this really turn into one big bus >> through the battery?* >> *3) Will one of of the alternators really be supporting all of the loads >> if the voltage regulator setpoints are slightly different? Should I leave >> the aux alt switch OFF for normal operations, or keep it on with a low >> voltage regulator setpoint, and let it automatically "kick in" upon failure >> of the main alternator?* >> *4) Right now I have the main alternator powering the bus and battery >> through the main bus contactor, but the aux alternator is connected to the >> battery through the hot battery bus. If I use a 20A aux alternator, will I >> need to go through the avionics contactor instead of through the hot batter >> bus?* >> * >> * >> I realize my (perhaps unrequited) love of an AMS and interest in a vacuum >> pad alternator has pushed me into something very close to Z-14, so maybe I >> should just thinking about adding a second battery, however, I am not >> planning on an electric ignition only ignition system, so that level of >> redundancy might be overkill for me. (Planning regular mags, but with the >> g3i system I've been eyeing for a little while...). >> >> I have been comfortable flying in single-battery, single alternator >> installations in the soup for many years. Maybe I should just put everything >> on a single bus, have a backup alternator with a setpoint just below the >> main alternator, and be okay with everything going though a single battery >> contactor. >> >> Any initial reactions or suggestions? >> >> >> -- >> Andrew Zachar >> andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com >> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > > -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:01 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Andrew, Don't make yourself crazy, buy Vertical Power's setup and add two alternators. If you are really power hungry, use the B & C 20 amp job on the pad. I'll tell you unless you are running air-condition and want to stay cool when you blackout and are on backup you don't need the 20 amp job. Since you are building a new airplane with all the fancy-shmancy electronic stuff, calculate your total draw when running the bare essentials. VP will to that for you - how nice of them. If your panel is worth what you'll pay for the technology, it won't draw more than 8 amps (the whole thing). Use LED for everything except your sneakers and stay away from radios that hum and double as hand warmers when you turn them on. In an RV-7, the handheld you are going to take a long for a backup runs on batteries and will do most of your thinking. Also, don't mention Avionics Switch here - you'll have bad dreams :) Enjoy the adventure, Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Zachar Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) Ladies and Gentlemen, I am just finishing up my emp kit, but am having a lot of fun researching and pondering some of the electron-shuffling related questions for the distant future. I've read the 'Connection once through (I realize I have 5 more times through before stuff will start settling in for good), but wanted to throw something out their for constructive criticism. I have not had enough time to really think through all of its implications yet, but I wanted to run it by everyone to see if there are any large gaps in judgement or understanding. I'll bold my primary questions toward the end of the email. A little background... 1) I like the avionics master switch, but intend on dual feeding the avionics bus per the single point of failure concern. 2) I am not planning on a vacuum system, so the prospect of a backup 8A or 20A alternator is hard to turn down. 3) Aircraft is an IFR, glass, RV-7, and weight will be an issue (I realize the image I've linked below is very close to Z-14, but I can't make the leap to dual battery, dual alternator.) 4) I have not laid out all of the load (current) requirements for now, I'm just being philosophical about layout concept. This is my proposed setup, simplified greatly. Two busses, two alternators, but single battery. Here's a link to an image of my visio file: http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/n999za-electrical-concept.jpg If anyone wants the visio file, write me back and I'll email it to you directly. (No making fun of any erroneous electrical symbols...I am a mechanical engineer.) While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!), and I believe that with the right cockpit indications, I can load shed with switches and breakers pretty quickly. (Avionics bus OFF, Main bus OFF, turn off all switches and pull all breakers. Then Main bus ON, no smoke? Okay, let's slowly bring back essential systems. Avionics ON, no smoke? Good. Turn on essential avionics. Let's find somewhere to land...or maybe I'm comfortable continuing in good Wx...) My big questions: *1) Can I have a main alternator providing power on the main bus side and an aux alternator providing power on the avionics side, but both buses are connected through the battery?* *2) Even with the bus tie open, doesn't this really turn into one big bus through the battery?* *3) Will one of of the alternators really be supporting all of the loads if the voltage regulator setpoints are slightly different? Should I leave the aux alt switch OFF for normal operations, or keep it on with a low voltage regulator setpoint, and let it automatically "kick in" upon failure of the main alternator?* *4) Right now I have the main alternator powering the bus and battery through the main bus contactor, but the aux alternator is connected to the battery through the hot battery bus. If I use a 20A aux alternator, will I need to go through the avionics contactor instead of through the hot batter bus?* * * I realize my (perhaps unrequited) love of an AMS and interest in a vacuum pad alternator has pushed me into something very close to Z-14, so maybe I should just thinking about adding a second battery, however, I am not planning on an electric ignition only ignition system, so that level of redundancy might be overkill for me. (Planning regular mags, but with the g3i system I've been eyeing for a little while...). I have been comfortable flying in single-battery, single alternator installations in the soup for many years. Maybe I should just put everything on a single bus, have a backup alternator with a setpoint just below the main alternator, and be okay with everything going though a single battery contactor. Any initial reactions or suggestions? -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Andrew Zachar I definitely like the VP stuff, especially if Dynon (favorite for now) can get up to speed with the VP-X integration. "Also, don't mention Avionics Switch here - you'll have bad dreams :)" But I was dual feeding the Avionics bus! I thought the AMS as a single point of failure was the bad juju. :-) On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > > Andrew, > > Don't make yourself crazy, buy Vertical Power's setup and add two > alternators. If you are really power hungry, use the B & C 20 amp job on > the pad. I'll tell you unless you are running air-condition and want to > stay cool when you blackout and are on backup you don't need the 20 amp > job. > > Since you are building a new airplane with all the fancy-shmancy > electronic stuff, calculate your total draw when running the bare > essentials. VP will to that for you - how nice of them. If your panel is > worth what you'll pay for the technology, it won't draw more than 8 amps > (the whole thing). Use LED for everything except your sneakers and stay > away from radios that hum and double as hand warmers when you turn them > on. > > In an RV-7, the handheld you are going to take a long for a backup runs > on batteries and will do most of your thinking. > > Also, don't mention Avionics Switch here - you'll have bad dreams :) > > Enjoy the adventure, > > Glenn E. Long > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Andrew Zachar > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:15 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but > single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > I am just finishing up my emp kit, but am having a lot of fun > researching and pondering some of the electron-shuffling related > questions for the distant future. I've read the 'Connection once through > (I realize I have 5 more times through before stuff will start settling > in for good), but wanted to throw something out their for constructive > criticism. I have not had enough time to really think through all of its > implications yet, but I wanted to run it by everyone to see if there are > any large gaps in judgement or understanding. I'll bold my primary > questions toward the end of the email. > > A little background... > 1) I like the avionics master switch, but intend on dual feeding the > avionics bus per the single point of failure concern. > 2) I am not planning on a vacuum system, so the prospect of a backup 8A > or 20A alternator is hard to turn down. > 3) Aircraft is an IFR, glass, RV-7, and weight will be an issue (I > realize the image I've linked below is very close to Z-14, but I can't > make the leap to dual battery, dual alternator.) > 4) I have not laid out all of the load (current) requirements for now, > I'm just being philosophical about layout concept. > > This is my proposed setup, simplified greatly. Two busses, two > alternators, but single battery. > > Here's a link to an image of my visio file: > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/n999za-electrical-concept.jpg > > If anyone wants the visio file, write me back and I'll email it to you > directly. > > (No making fun of any erroneous electrical symbols...I am a mechanical > engineer.) > > While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true > endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. > Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics > equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!), and I believe that with > the right cockpit indications, I can load shed with switches and > breakers pretty quickly. (Avionics bus OFF, Main bus OFF, turn off all > switches and pull all breakers. Then Main bus ON, no smoke? Okay, let's > slowly bring back essential systems. Avionics ON, no smoke? Good. Turn > on essential avionics. > Let's find somewhere to land...or maybe I'm comfortable continuing in > good > Wx...) > > My big questions: > *1) Can I have a main alternator providing power on the main bus side > and an aux alternator providing power on the avionics side, but both > buses are connected through the battery?* > *2) Even with the bus tie open, doesn't this really turn into one big > bus through the battery?* > *3) Will one of of the alternators really be supporting all of the loads > if the voltage regulator setpoints are slightly different? Should I > leave the aux alt switch OFF for normal operations, or keep it on with a > low voltage regulator setpoint, and let it automatically "kick in" upon > failure of the main alternator?* > *4) Right now I have the main alternator powering the bus and battery > through the main bus contactor, but the aux alternator is connected to > the battery through the hot battery bus. If I use a 20A aux alternator, > will I need to go through the avionics contactor instead of through the > hot batter > bus?* > * > * > I realize my (perhaps unrequited) love of an AMS and interest in a > vacuum pad alternator has pushed me into something very close to Z-14, > so maybe I should just thinking about adding a second battery, however, > I am not planning on an electric ignition only ignition system, so that > level of redundancy might be overkill for me. (Planning regular mags, > but with the g3i system I've been eyeing for a little while...). > > I have been comfortable flying in single-battery, single alternator > installations in the soup for many years. Maybe I should just put > everything on a single bus, have a backup alternator with a setpoint > just below the main alternator, and be okay with everything going though > a single battery contactor. > > Any initial reactions or suggestions? > > > -- > Andrew Zachar > andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com > > -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Dj Merrill On 07/29/2010 03:47 PM, Andrew Zachar wrote: > I definitely like the VP stuff, especially if Dynon (favorite for now) > can get up to speed with the VP-X integration. Ditto. I'm leaning heavily towards the Dynon Skyview, but if they do not have VP-X support by the time I am ready to buy, that would be a deal breaker. GRT is my second choice. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/ Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:15 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: dual bus, single battery At 01:52 PM 7/29/2010, you wrote: >>Why not Z 13/8? >>> Or Z8? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Laury/Z-Laury_A.pdf While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!) >>> Are you planning to install avionics known to be >>> so fragile that they cannot tolerate life in >>> the "aircraft wild"? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:34 PM PST US From: Grosseair Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) At the Dynon forum on Monday they sounded like they weren't really too interested in Vertical Power integration. They have "more important things they're working on." I came to Oskosh this week fully expecting to buy a GRT system but wanting to have one last look at all of them. After demos and forums, I wound up going with the Advanced Flight system. It has more of the features I want and integrates better with my other equipment for less money than Grand Rapids. (Dynon is cheaper but lacks some of the features I want. John Grosse Super IIRG Sent from my iPad On Jul 29, 2010, at 4:05 PM, Dj Merrill wrote: > > On 07/29/2010 03:47 PM, Andrew Zachar wrote: >> I definitely like the VP stuff, especially if Dynon (favorite for now) >> can get up to speed with the VP-X integration. > > > Ditto. I'm leaning heavily towards the Dynon Skyview, but if they do > not have VP-X support by the time I am ready to buy, that would be a > deal breaker. GRT is my second choice. > > -Dj > > -- > Dj Merrill - N1JOV > Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ > Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/ > Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/ > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dual bus, single battery From: Andrew Zachar Of course, all installed avionics will be aircraft wild tolerant... I do admit, the appeal of an AMS is purely aesthetic (convenience, really), one switch flip after engine start brings them all online, why have avionics on before the start if you dont have to? The second feed should cover me from the dreaded single point failure scenario. But also, what I'm calling an AMS is really just an ebus alternate feed switch in other z drawings (the ebusses are always dual-fed), and I'm substituting a crossfeed contactor for the diode normally used to act as my backup bus feed. I'm just not splitting things up based on a load shed scenario, but rather a normal operations convenience scenario. I thought I understood all of the heartburn about the AMS switch after reading the connection and some supplementary articles on the website... Am I still missing something? Keep the thoughts coming, though; I haven't quite convinced myself that I should let convenience drive my architecture as opposed to some other factor (like fast load shedding!). I appreciate everyone's replies (and of course, the opportunity to learn from all of the posts and discussions shared on the list). __ Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com On Jul 29, 2010, at 6:02 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 01:52 PM 7/29/2010, you wrote: > > >>Why not Z 13/8? > > >>> Or Z8? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Laury/Z-Laury_A.pdf > > While I will not be enjoying the quick load-shed capability that a true endurance bus affords, it will get me an Avionics switch (I know, Mr. Nuckolls, it will only take me 4 seconds to turn on and off my avionics equipment, but I still can't seem to let go!) > > >>> Are you planning to install avionics known to be > >>> so fragile that they cannot tolerate life in > >>> the "aircraft wild"? > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pondering dual alternator, dual bus, but single battery setup. (Newbie alert!) From: Dj Merrill On 7/29/2010 8:52 PM, Grosseair wrote: > > At the Dynon forum on Monday they sounded like they weren't really too interested in Vertical Power integration. They have "more important things they're working on." Interesting! Thanks for posting that. I'm at least a year out from any shopping sprees (probably more like 2-3 years), but if they have no interest in supporting the VP-X, I guess I can take them off my list. > > I came to Oskosh this week fully expecting to buy a GRT system but wanting to have one last look at all of them. After demos and forums, I wound up going with the Advanced Flight system. It has more of the features I want and integrates better with my other equipment for less money than Grand Rapids. (Dynon is cheaper but lacks some of the features I want. > I'll have to look at the AFS systems. I admit I don't know that much about them. Thanks! -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/ Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:42 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to wire a LED to a LR3C From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob I have selected a yellow LED to be used with my 12V LR3C. It came from Pep boys wired with a 680 ohm resistor and works quite well on 12 volts. The reason I like it's very bright and doesn't have a flange at the bottom and is longer than normal which allows me to have it extend a little bit from panel which can get my attention even though it is located above my knees because the semiconductor point is in fact in my view. Question is since 680 ohms is a bit more resistance that I normally use to drop 12 volts to run a yellow LED, does your suggestion of installing two 220 ohm resistors (one in series and one in parallel) hold true for this LED? Or perhaps up the ohms a little? Thx. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306780#306780 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.