Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:24 AM - Icom A6 Power Supply (checkn6)
2. 07:37 AM - Re: servo filter capacitor (user9253)
3. 08:23 AM - Battery charger (JOHN TIPTON)
4. 08:48 AM - Re: Battery charger ()
5. 09:19 AM - Re: Battery charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:22 AM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (Richard Girard)
7. 10:00 AM - Re: Re: servo filter capacitor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:15 AM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:21 AM - Talking and wiring... Burnt Dynon Oil Pressure Sender? ()
10. 01:33 PM - Battery cables (dougshep@netzero.com)
11. 02:03 PM - Re: Battery cables (RGent1224@aol.com)
12. 03:07 PM - Re: Talking and wiring... Burnt Dynon Oil Pressure Sender? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:18 PM - Electronic ignition feed circuit. (Tim Andres)
14. 09:31 PM - Re: Electronic ignition feed circuit. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Icom A6 Power Supply |
Hi Everyone,
Pardon my ignorance here but if it were not for this list and the AEC website and
manual my electrical system would probably be in shambles. But on to my question.
I fly a Challenger and use an Icom A6 handheld for my radio until I can afford
a panel mount. The instructions state that I must use the CP-20 cord @ $55 to
power it from the ships power. Seems a bit excessive to me but is there some kind
of magic in the box that I'm just not getting? The radio takes an 11V input
and I am guessing that the CP-20 has a charging system inside to recharge the
NiMh battery. My real question is can I run the radio on a 12V cord without
all the bells and whistles? I'm not trying to charge the battery in flight as
I have a spare alkaline battery pack mounted to the panel that I can clip the
radio body to while flying and un-clip when I get out. I remember years ago someone
telling me that a radio of this quality can work on a somewhat wide range
of external power as they have built in conversion, but like I said pardon my
ignorance.
Thanks
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307631#307631
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: servo filter capacitor |
> Hmmmm . . . I would hope that their instructions are specific as to where it
grounds. Are these Dynon FlightDEK or third party instructions? I think I know
a guy at Dynon I can ask about it.
Third party. The 2200fd capacitor came with the RV-12 autopilot kit. And yes,
the RV-12 directions say to ground the negative lead to the airframe. I questioned
that because any noise generated by the servo motor will have a longer
path through the airframe. I assume, but do not know, that the servo motor is
the antagonist. Actually there are two servo motors (pitch and roll) connected
in parallel, but there is only one capacitor. It is connected to the pitch
servo which is the one closest to the instrument panel.
It is possible that the intent of the 2,200fd capacitor is to help smooth the voltage
from the single phase Rotax dynamo. But there is already a 22,000fd capacitor
connected to the input power to the instrument panel.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307634#307634
Message 3
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Hi Guys
The charger for my cordless drill (12v) has expired, can I connect my
automobile charger to the battery?
Best regards: John (RV9a-wings)
Message 4
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John,
How many cold cranking amps does your cordless drill require? Spoil
yourself - take a trip to Harbor Freight
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery charger
<jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
Hi Guys
The charger for my cordless drill (12v) has expired, can I connect my
automobile charger to the battery?
Best regards: John (RV9a-wings)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charger |
At 10:20 AM 8/5/2010, you wrote:
><jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
>Hi Guys
>
>The charger for my cordless drill (12v) has expired, can I connect
>my automobile charger to the battery?
Cordless products using Ni-Cad or NiMh batteries
use chargers as current sources as opposed to
voltage sources. While the wall-wart that comes
with it puts out some name-plate voltage, the current
fed to the cells during charging is generally limited
by some resistor in series. The trick is to know where
the resistor was installed. If inside the drill, then
yes, you can hook the drill to 12v car battery and
recharge the cells. If it's inside the expired wall-wart,
then direct connection to the drill will probably produce
some unhappy if not spectacular results.
You can put a milliammeter in series with an experimental
hookup to see. Put a 3A fuse in series with the whole
mess just to be safe. Hook it up and see how much charging
current flows into the drill . . . if under 200 mA or so,
you're good to go. Most drills have c-cells that like to
charge at 150 mA for 10-15 hours. If the current is too
high, add resistance in series to bring it down.
I have some tools where the wall-warts have died or gone
AWOL. I charge them from my electronics bench supplies set
to run in a 150 mA constant current mode.
But as suggested, unless you really delight in solving
such problems and want to take the $time$ to understand
and implement a solution, a trip to HF is the quick-n-
dirty solution. Let us know what you discover.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Icom A6 Power Supply |
Chris, Look in your owners manual, I was surprised to find that my A22 which
had a simple cigarette style plug would work fine on 12 volts but the manual
had a prohibition from plugging it into a 24 volt system or it would let the
smoke out.
I bought my A22 in 1999 so perhaps Icom has come to their senses with the
A6.
I put the A22 in my trike and I power it from the 12 volt system. It works
fine. I went to the DAV with the radio and went through their box of power
supplies to find one that had a nice long cord and a plug that fits the
radio's power receptical. I didn't care about voltage or polarity, just
wanted the right plug. Bought the transformer for 25 cents, took it home and
cut off the transformer and canned it. used an ohm meter to determine which
wire went where, the center is + on the A22 and wired it into an extra fuse
slot on the trike. Works great, no escaped smoke in two years.
Icom builds good handhelds, but their accessory prices are laughable to the
point of arrogance. For my LSA I bought the cheapest Vertex handheld. It
comes with a headset adapter all that's needed is a PTT switch, which Bob
told me how to build then I found a ready made on at Mypilot for $11. I made
my own antenna and the whole package barely broke $200 for everything. It's
wired into the ship the same way as the trike (another 25 cent plug from
DAV, too) and it too works great with no smoke. The Vertex even had Li
battery pack instead of the Nicads and Nmh that Icom uses.
I don't own any stock in Vertex's parent company, I just like their radios
and especially their prices.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 9:22 AM, checkn6 <checkn6@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Pardon my ignorance here but if it were not for this list and the AEC
> website and manual my electrical system would probably be in shambles. But
> on to my question.
>
> I fly a Challenger and use an Icom A6 handheld for my radio until I can
> afford a panel mount. The instructions state that I must use the CP-20 cord
> @ $55 to power it from the ships power. Seems a bit excessive to me but is
> there some kind of magic in the box that I'm just not getting? The radio
> takes an 11V input and I am guessing that the CP-20 has a charging system
> inside to recharge the NiMh battery. My real question is can I run the radio
> on a 12V cord without all the bells and whistles? I'm not trying to charge
> the battery in flight as I have a spare alkaline battery pack mounted to the
> panel that I can clip the radio body to while flying and un-clip when I get
> out. I remember years ago someone telling me that a radio of this quality
> can work on a somewhat wide range of external power as they have built in
> conversion, but like I said pardon my ignorance.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307631#307631
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: servo filter capacitor |
At 09:36 AM 8/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>
> > Hmmmm . . . I would hope that their
> instructions are specific as to where it
> grounds. Are these Dynon FlightDEK or third
> party instructions? I think I know a guy at Dynon I can ask about it.
>
>
>Third party. The 2200fd capacitor came with
>the RV-12 autopilot kit. And yes, the RV-12
>directions say to ground the negative lead to
>the airframe. I questioned that because any
>noise generated by the servo motor will have a
>longer path through the airframe. I assume, but
>do not know, that the servo motor is the
>antagonist. Actually there are two servo motors
>(pitch and roll) connected in parallel, but
>there is only one capacitor. It is connected to
>the pitch servo which is the one closest to the instrument panel.
>
>It is possible that the intent of the 2,200fd
>capacitor is to help smooth the voltage from the
>single phase Rotax dynamo. But there is already
>a 22,000fd capacitor connected to the input power to the instrument panel.
Yeah, hard to tell. If the servo grounds locally
to airframe, I'd put the capacitor ground there
also. The capacitor across the single phase
rectifier regulators has minimal benefit. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/SD-8_Noise_Data.pdf
While there ARE effects for adding the capacitor,
they don't reduce the ripple voltage markedly.
Nor the the battery have any real effect on
ripple voltage. This is what Mil-STD-704 tells
us to EXPECT on a DC power bus . . . the righteous
designer learns to live with it. Adding capacitors
after the fact is probably whistling in the dark.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Icom A6 Power Supply |
At 09:22 AM 8/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>Pardon my ignorance here but if it were not for this list and the
>AEC website and manual my electrical system would probably be in
>shambles. But on to my question.
>
>I fly a Challenger and use an Icom A6 handheld for my radio until I
>can afford a panel mount. The instructions state that I must use the
>CP-20 cord @ $55 to power it from the ships power. Seems a bit
>excessive to me but is there some kind of magic in the box that I'm
>just not getting? The radio takes an 11V input and I am guessing
>that the CP-20 has a charging system inside to recharge the NiMh
>battery. My real question is can I run the radio on a 12V cord
>without all the bells and whistles? I'm not trying to charge the
>battery in flight as I have a spare alkaline battery pack mounted to
>the panel that I can clip the radio body to while flying and un-clip
>when I get out. I remember years ago someone telling me that a radio
>of this quality can work on a somewhat wide range of external power
>as they have built in conversion, but like I said pardon my ignorance.
Good question. But with an answer similar to the
recent exchange about charging batteries in cordless
drills. Without analyzing a CP-20 to deduce its
mojo, there's little that anyone can offer you
with confidence. If we had a schematic of what
goes on inside it, I could certainly offer
solid advice. Suggest you get the recommended
cable. The $time$ expended to do a work-around
may well be more costly than using the stock
cable.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Talking and wiring... Burnt Dynon Oil Pressure Sender? |
The other day I made the mistake of asking someone to help me mount my
battery and then holding a conversation along the way. We installed the
battery perfectly but it was backwards. When I flipped the master
switch, the batt wire to the master solenoid got fried. Z-13/8.
When the batt wire burnt, it melted the cover on the oil pressure sender
and presumably shorted it's circuit (I no longer get a reading on the
EFIS). At rest with the engine off, the OP should read zero. It now has
3 red dashes --- in place of the zero. Naturally both wires have been
replaced.
Question: Has anyone had experience with expired oil sender units and is
it possible to short or damage them? The unit I have came with the Dynon
D-180.
If things start to point to the sender unit, I want to overnight one to
the hangar for tomorrow.
Thanks
Glenn E. Long
Message 10
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I'm building an RV-9A with an Eggenfellner Subaru E6 engine. I will be
mounting my batteries in the tailcone of the AC, and will have to route
the power cables (probably two #6 wire size with terminals) fwd to the f
irewall. Since I have an all metal AC, how do I terminate this large ca
ble on the firewall (aft side), with connecting cables, going fwd to the
starter and also to the instr panel? Haven't been able to find any typ
e of an insulated standoff for this. Can you recommend something?
Also, where can I get a schematic for the Wig-Wag circuit so I can inte
rface to it?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cables |
Check this solution out I'll be using them when the time comes
_http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Red-3-8-Stud-Type-Junction-Block-_W0QQcmdZVi
ewItemQQitemZ350377856912QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Red-3-8-Stud-Type-Junction-Block-_W0QQcmdZView
ItemQQitemZ350377856912QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
They also have black
Dick
In a message dated 8/5/2010 3:34:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
dougshep@netzero.com writes:
I'm building an RV-9A with an Eggenfellner Subaru E6 engine. I will be
mounting my batteries in the tailcone of the AC, and will have to route the
power cables (probably two #6 wire size with terminals) fwd to the firewall.
Since I have an all metal AC, how do I terminate this large cable on the
firewall (aft side), with connecting cables, going fwd to the starter and
also to the instr panel? Haven't been able to find any type of an insulated
standoff for this. Can you recommend something?
Also, where can I get a schematic for the Wig-Wag circuit so I can
interface to it?
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Talking and wiring... Burnt Dynon Oil Pressure |
Sender?
At 12:16 PM 8/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>The other day I made the mistake of asking someone to help me mount my
>battery and then holding a conversation along the way. We installed the
>battery perfectly but it was backwards. When I flipped the master
>switch, the batt wire to the master solenoid got fried. Z-13/8.
Bummer. I've deliberated suggesting that all battery contactors
be fabricated from 4-terminal contactors having the right
combination of diodes installed to prevent such happenings . . .
but this would add complexity to the e-bus alternate feed
architecture too.
>When the batt wire burnt, it melted the cover on the oil pressure sender
>and presumably shorted it's circuit (I no longer get a reading on the
>EFIS). At rest with the engine off, the OP should read zero. It now has
>3 red dashes --- in place of the zero. Naturally both wires have been
>replaced.
>
>Question: Has anyone had experience with expired oil sender units and is
>it possible to short or damage them? The unit I have came with the Dynon
>D-180.
Contact the guys at Dynon and explain what happened. I've
spoken with several folks there at length on various matters.
I'm betting that they'll make you a good deal on a replacement
pressure transducer.
>If things start to point to the sender unit, I want to overnight one to
>the hangar for tomorrow.
Hmmmm . . . it's 3 pm there now, suggest you get on the
phone post-haste . . .
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Electronic ignition feed circuit. |
Bob; I'm still digestion the question of un-fused wires running more than a
few inches, so this question comes to mind. I have a rear engine/rear
battery. The mfg calls for a pull-able breaker on the panel. 3 options I
see are:
1. Run the wire from the Bat Bus forward to the C/B, then on to it's
business. Now I am open to problems with an unintentional ground and a
burning wire, but I can reset in flight in an emergency.
2. Install a 10 amp fuse at the Bus and then a 5 Amp CB in the panel. My
thought is the CB would always trip first and I can reset it, the fuse is
there to protect from a problem between the Buss and the CB. Now I have 2
fail points.
3. Use a fuse only at the Bus and no CB in the panel. Now I can't reset it
in flight.
If I understand you correctly you would say use #1 and just use good
practices. Is that correct?
This same issue comes up a few times in my project, like the nose lift for
example. The mfg wants a un-switched 10A feeder to it.
Thanks & Yes I have a copy of the Aerolectric'!
Tim Andres
<mailto:rnbraud@yahoo.com>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic ignition feed circuit. |
At 09:11 PM 8/5/2010, you wrote:
>Bob; I'm still digestion the question of un-fused wires running more
>than a few inches, so this question comes to mind. I have a rear
>engine/rear battery. The mfg calls for a pull-able breaker on the
>panel. 3 options I see are:
You must be talking about Light Speed.
You can wire as he suggests. No doubt
many hundreds of airplanes have been wired
thusly. An accident I'm working involves
wiring that was NOT done to LS drawings . . .
but not to mine either. The airplane
suffered simultaneous loss of both ignition
systems because the folks making decisions
THOUGHT they were building in some sort of
super-redundancy.
If it were my airplane, each ignition would
be fed with a 5A fuse and 20AWG wire to a
switch on the panel. One fuse on a battery
bus, the other on the main bus.
>1. Run the wire from the Bat Bus forward to the C/B, then on to it's
>business. Now I am open to problems with an unintentional ground and
>a burning wire, but I can reset in flight in an emergency.
>2. Install a 10 amp fuse at the Bus and then a 5 Amp CB in the
>panel. My thought is the CB would always trip first and I can reset
>it, the fuse is there to protect from a problem between the Buss and
>the CB. Now I have 2 fail points.
>3. Use a fuse only at the Bus and no CB in the panel. Now I can't
>reset it in flight.
Yeah, but you have TWO of them and the engine
runs really fine on one. Likelihood of
resetting a breaker being even a choice
is low . . . likelihood of it being useful
is even lower . . . likelihood that you
pop a fuse on one ign (which means it's
dead anyhow) and then having a second
system go down.
In fact, if I were in an endurance mode
flying battery only with two ignition systems,
I'd shut one of them off.
>If I understand you correctly you would say use #1 and just use good
>practices. Is that correct?
>This same issue comes up a few times in my project, like the nose
>lift for example. The mfg wants a un-switched 10A feeder to it.
>Thanks & Yes I have a copy of the Aerolectric'!
and no doubt many airplanes have been wired
that way too.
All I can offer you is that there are "rules
of the wiring" that have been developed over
nearly a century of wiring airplanes. They
represent proven recipes for success validated
in hundreds of thousands of airplanes. There
are other recipes that will have different risks.
The risks are probably low . . . after all, how
many hours of the rest of your life to you expect
to be airborne in this machine?
So it's a toss-up . . .
Bob . . .
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