---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/07/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:02 AM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (rose9065f) 2. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: New Z-8 drawing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 08:32 AM - Re: Firewall Penetration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 09:06 AM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (rvtach) 5. 10:42 AM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 12:20 PM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (Joe Ronco) 7. 02:50 PM - Prop crack & control stick stops (F. Tim Yoder) 8. 06:50 PM - Re: Prop crack & control stick stops (Bob McCallum) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:52 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply From: "rose9065f" I made a cable with a 10 ohm resistor in series with the 12 volt feed from the plane to the A24. This puts a small charge into the A24 battery, but the radio still operates from its internal battery. Works fine. !0 ohms is not too critical. The wall charger says 200ma. Dropping 13 volts to 11.7 at 200ma is about 6.5 ohms Bigger resistor smaller trickle charge. Jim -------- KF2 582 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307849#307849 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: New Z-8 drawing At 02:31 PM 8/6/2010, you wrote: > >Bob, >Just to be clear, in a previous exchange you said that ALL essential >engine power should come from the Batt Bus. Does that mean redundant >systems (#2pump, #2ignition, #2EFI {switch}) also reside on the batt bus? One set would run from the battery bus, the other from the main bus. >If the answer is yes, what is the reasoning for not having them on >the main (separate) bus? The design goal is to be able to shut down as much of the electrical system as possible without killing the engine. So if you get a severe electrical event (smoke in the cockpit) you can turn off the battery master and alternator switches without affecting engine ops. So the primary engine support hardware would run from the battery bus, secondary engine support would power from the main bus. This separation covers a smoke-in-the-cockpit event without having to manage any switches over and above the power sources. I've discovered any really attractive high-current diodes for aux alternator b-lead isolation. Electrically suited components are pretty bulky after you get the heat-sinked. They're also more expensive than a contactor. So your original idea for tasking a single contactor with ground power management AND b-lead crash safety has some warm fuzzies about it. My grand daughter was visiting most of last week which was a most pleasant but commanding distraction. I'll get my head back on things electric pretty soon. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Penetration At 04:26 PM 8/6/2010, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I am about to make the firewall penetrations for my all electric RV >8. Is there any reason that I cannot run the main #2 power wire to >the starter contactor, B lead from the standby alternator, both >alternator F-leads and the sensor wires from the CHT, EGT, oil >pressure, oil temp, fuel pressure and fuel flow all through the same >penetration? I have a nice Safeair kit with a one inch stainless >pipe. They would all fit but I was wondering if there would be any >signal interference with the sensors next to the fat wires. They should be fine sharing the same penetration. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:28 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply From: "rvtach" rose9065f wrote: > I made a cable with a 10 ohm resistor in series with the 12 volt feed from the plane to the A24. This puts a small charge into the A24 battery, but the radio still operates from its internal battery. Works fine. !0 ohms is not too critical. The wall charger says 200ma. Dropping 13 volts to 11.7 at 200ma is about 6.5 ohms Bigger resistor smaller trickle charge. > > Jim I had forgotten I had any experience with this. When I was in charge of aircraft parking for COPPERSTATE Fly-In we used a bunch of A-6s, which as mentioned earlier won't transmit when it's on the charger. Who's idea was that anyway? With heavy use the batteries died in under 2 hours and then we were going through a set of AAs every 30 minutes. Our radio guy did something similar to what Jim here did by soldering a bunch of diodes in series inside the AA adapter battery pack to get the right voltage and then bringing a cable/cigarette lighter plug out to run off my golf cart battery. I don't remember exactly what diodes he used or how many but it worked like a charm. If you're is interested I can find out exactly how he did this. Just have to get out to the airport and open up his creation and see exactly what's in there. I'll take a photo or 2 while I'm at it. I see that the AA pack is only about 15 dollars at Chief and the half dozen or so diodes would only cost a couple dollars. Jim in Tucson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307864#307864 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A6 Power Supply >The A23 can trickle or boost charge. I've heard good things about >airborne ICOM handhelds (mine works good in flight), and panel mount >NAV/COMs are $$$. I've always had very good luck with Icom radio performance (20+ years ago) but I've not acquired any experience with newer products. If one assumes they've maintained or refined their legacy design and business models in a good way, the level of customer satisfaction for performance should still be very high. > I'd be careful about connecting your A6 directly to aircraft power. Agreed. But your comments about the power adapter putting out 10v raised some new flags. What we're needing here is an operating support power source to augment batteries . . . not a battery charger. The 10V value along with other comments about an 11.7 volt transmitter shutdown suggest a solution that keeps external power constrained to 10-11 volts but without regard to charging batteries which is a more demanding protocol. Just adding a resistor in series with the power lead is problematic . . . because the current demands of the radio are all over the place. Receiver quiet (squelched) is the lowest drain. Receiver working and putting out audio power is somewhat higher. Transmitter working is MUCH higher. So I think it's a pretty safe bet to design a noise free (linear) step-down regulator set for say 10.5 volts using an LM317 regulator from radio shack. The data sheet for the LM317 . . . http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf . . . says that with a 200 mA load at 50C case temperature on the device, the dropout voltage (differential between input and output where it looses regulation) is on the order of 1.6 volts. Emacs! This means that a 10.5V regulator crafted with this part would maintain regulation performance with an input supply as low as 10.5 + 1.6 = 12.1 volts which certainly covers all operations with the alternator working . . . and if the alternator is not working, one can reasonably expect the radio to work fine on internal batteries for the time it takes to comfortably put wheels on the ground. I'm 99% sure that crafting the circuit below will produce a power source that will operate the radio. It may not charge the battery . . . so use the radios normal charger(s) to top of batteries before flight. Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:07 PM PST US From: "Joe Ronco" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Icom A6 Power Supply The Batteries America CP-11L might be a good way to go for use with 12 Volt plane power. See: http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/3490 User reviews at bottom of page give it 4 or 5 stars. Joe R From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A6 Power Supply The A23 can trickle or boost charge. I've heard good things about airborne ICOM handhelds (mine works good in flight), and panel mount NAV/COMs are $$$. I've always had very good luck with Icom radio performance (20+ years ago) but I've not acquired any experience with newer products. If one assumes they've maintained or refined their legacy design and business models in a good way, the level of customer satisfaction for performance should still be very high. I'd be careful about connecting your A6 directly to aircraft power. Agreed. But your comments about the power adapter putting out 10v raised some new flags. What we're needing here is an operating support power source to augment batteries . . . not a battery charger. The 10V value along with other comments about an 11.7 volt transmitter shutdown suggest a solution that keeps external power constrained to 10-11 volts but without regard to charging batteries which is a more demanding protocol. Just adding a resistor in series with the power lead is problematic . . . because the current demands of the radio are all over the place. Receiver quiet (squelched) is the lowest drain. Receiver working and putting out audio power is somewhat higher. Transmitter working is MUCH higher. So I think it's a pretty safe bet to design a noise free (linear) step-down regulator set for say 10.5 volts using an LM317 regulator from radio shack. The data sheet for the LM317 . . . http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf . . . says that with a 200 mA load at 50C case temperature on the device, the dropout voltage (differential between input and output where it looses regulation) is on the order of 1.6 volts. Emacs! This means that a 10.5V regulator crafted with this part would maintain regulation performance with an input supply as low as 10.5 + 1.6 = 12.1 volts which certainly covers all operations with the alternator working . . . and if the alternator is not working, one can reasonably expect the radio to work fine on internal batteries for the time it takes to comfortably put wheels on the ground. I'm 99% sure that crafting the circuit below will produce a power source that will operate the radio. It may not charge the battery . . . so use the radios normal charger(s) to top of batteries before flight. Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:26 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Prop crack & control stick stops 'OC' & all, The first picture showing a crack in my prop tip (fuzzy). # 2 & 3 show the tab with adjustable bolt for aileron stop, one on each stick. #4 shows the elevator stops mounted to the bottom of the pilot seat. Tim Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 058 059 060 006 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:40 PM PST US From: "Bob McCallum" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Prop crack & control stick stops OK, I'll bite. How do these pictures relate to aircraft electrical systems?? What's the question being asked or the information conveyed? Do not archive ! Bob McC _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of F. Tim Yoder Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 5:48 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Prop crack & control stick stops 'OC' & all, The first picture showing a crack in my prop tip (fuzzy). # 2 & 3 show the tab with adjustable bolt for aileron stop, one on each stick. #4 shows the elevator stops mounted to the bottom of the pilot seat. Tim Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 058 059 060 006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.