Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Z14 regulator voltages (Bob Barrow)
2. 07:09 AM - Firewall Prnetration Question (Eric M. Jones)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (rose9065f)
4. 07:38 AM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Tim Andres)
5. 08:00 AM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (RGent1224@aol.com)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Roger)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (rckol)
8. 09:23 AM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:27 AM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:49 AM - Re: Z14 regulator voltages (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Danny)
13. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Danny)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Bob Leffler)
15. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (David LLoyd)
16. 12:34 PM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 02:48 PM - Re: New Z-8 drawing (jonlaury)
18. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:41 PM - Newbie needs electric help (Steve and Darlene)
21. 08:44 PM - Mike Jack wiring (Manfred Loos)
22. 10:31 PM - Re: Mike Jack wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 10:33 PM - Re: Newbie needs electric help (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 10:40 PM - Re: Firewall Prnetration Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Z14 regulator voltages |
I have installed a Z14 split bus architecture with 2 B&C LR3 regulators. I have
a couple of avionics devices that can draw power from both buses. They will draw
power from whichever bus providing the greater voltage.
In order to ensure that a particular bus normally provides the power to these devices
I will presumably have to have that bus running at a slightly higher voltage
than the other. As provided by B&C the LR3 generates 14.2 volts. I presume
that I will have to set the secondary bus(non preferred current supplier)
to a lower voltage.
My question is what voltage should I set the secondary bus to: would 14.0 volts
do the trick.
My second question is how do I determine the actual voltage of the adjusted secondary
regulator without actually running the alternator (I'm probably 12 months
away from running the engine). In other words I know how to make the adjustment
but I'm not sure how to determine if the voltage adjustment is accurate.
Regards Bob Barrow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307900#307900
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Firewall Prnetration Question |
Aeroelectric Listers,
My vision for firewall penetrations includes the following: Let's envision a channel
cut into the bottom of the airplane from under the firewall to as far back
as needed. Sort of like the transmission and drive-shaft tunnel in an automobile.
I would put into it fuel lines, battery lines from rear-mounted battery to front-mounted
starter. etc.
How does this look as far as the FAA firewall regs? What problems am I not seeing?
Has this been done in other airplanes?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307914#307914
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Icom A6 Power Supply |
" because the current
demands of the radio are all over the place."
Doesn't matter, the radio is running off its internal battery. The series resistor
is trickle charging.
Simpler is better.
Jim
--------
KF2 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307919#307919
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
I cant speak to the regs but I personally would want some isolation between
the =0Abattery cables and the fuel lines. I'm sure you thought of that alr
eady.=0ATim Andres=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: E
ric M. Jones <emjones@charter.net>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 7:07:51 AM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall
. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>=0A=0AAeroelectric Listers,=0A=0AMy vision fo
r firewall penetrations includes the following: Let's envision a =0Achannel
cut into the bottom of the airplane from under the firewall to as far =0Ab
ack as needed. Sort of like the transmission and drive-shaft tunnel in an
=0Aautomobile.=0A=0AI would put into it fuel lines, battery lines from rear
-mounted battery to =0Afront-mounted starter. etc. =0A=0A=0AHow does this l
ook as far as the FAA firewall regs? What problems am I not =0Aseeing? Has
this been done in other airplanes?=0A=0A--------=0AEric M. Jones=0Awww.Peri
helionDesign.com=0A113 Brentwood Drive=0ASouthbridge, MA 01550=0A(508) 764-
2072=0Aemjones@charter.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307914#307914=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
===================
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
When in doubt always check 43.13 That's your bible in aircraft building &
maintance
Just my $0.02 worth
Dick
In a message dated 8/8/2010 9:39:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
tim2542@sbcglobal.net writes:
I cant speak to the regs but I personally would want some isolation
between the battery cables and the fuel lines. I'm sure you thought of that
already.
Tim Andres
____________________________________
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones@charter.net>
Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 7:07:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Prnetration Question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<_emjones@charter.net_ (mailto:emjones@charter.net) >
Aeroelectric Listers,
My vision for firewall penetrations includes the following: Let's envision
a channel cut into the bottom of the airplane from under the firewall to
as far back as needed. Sort of like the transmission and drive-shaft tunnel
in an automobile.
I would put into it fuel lines, battery lines from rear-mounted battery to
front-mounted starter. etc.
How does this look as far as the FAA firewall regs? What problems am I not
seeing? Has this been done in other airplanes?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
_emjones@charter.net_ (mailto:emjones@charter.net)
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target=_blforums.matronics.com/"
target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307914#307914)
_ -Matt Drallntribution" ======
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
> My vision for firewall penetrations includes the following: Let's envision
> a channel cut into the bottom of the airplane from under the firewall to
> as far back as needed. Sort of like the transmission and drive-shaft
> tunnel in an automobile.
>
> I would put into it fuel lines, battery lines from rear-mounted battery to
> front-mounted starter. etc.
>
> How does this look as far as the FAA firewall regs? What problems am I not
> seeing? Has this been done in other airplanes?
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
Eric,
Please elaborate on how this would be done and what are the advantages.
Remember that fuel lines will come through the cockpit fuel
selector. The bus power fat wire, usually pulled from hot side of starter
relay, also needs to go to cockpit. I have a rear mounted
battery.
Roger
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
Eric,
Take a look at this thread to see what can go wrong:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57856
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307927#307927
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
At 09:37 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>I cant speak to the regs but I personally would want some isolation
>between the battery cables and the fuel lines. I'm sure you thought
>of that already.
>Tim Andres
Consider the ordinary shotgun shell. The POTENTIAL
for a great release of energy is designed into
the device. Yet when events necessary to set
of that release are artfully positioned and
contained, the device offers very low risk
until it's loaded for use. Then the risks
change markedly but can still be very low if
actions are considered and responsible.
Liquid lines and wiring of all types can share the
same space. What is the likelihood that a contiguous
metal line carrying liquid is going to leak simultaneously
with compromise of the insulation on a wire thus giving
rise to an extra-hazardous condition?
At the same time, you don't just stuff those items
into shared spaces without regard to craftsmanship
and common sense for support such that neither wire
nor liquid line is being abraded by vibration while
in contact with some antagonist.
Considered and responsible actions keep your
electrons and gasoline separated just as the
same actions keep folks out of your prop and
airspeeds are maintained in the window on final.
There are no specific regs I'm aware of that
speak to co-mingling of potential hazards.
Take a peek in the tail of a Beechjet and you
find all manner of electrical, liquid, controls,
accessories, batteries, etc sharing some VERY
tightly packed spaces.
At the same time there are "rules of thumb"
for support and minimum separations but those
practices are often call for separations if
less than one inch.
Bob . . .
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
At 09:59 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>When in doubt always check 43.13 That's your bible in aircraft
>building & maintance
>Just my $0.02 worth
Sorta . . . 43-13 does indeed offer a lot of information
based on practical experience. I.e, recipes for success.
But the electrical section is rife with incorrect if not silly
assertions. I suspect other areas are equally plagued
with marginal editing. I think I wrote about EAA contributions to
the editing of revision B some years ago.
It was pretty bad before EAA folks provided input
and it got better afterward . . . but it's certainly
not the class of document one would want to consider
as the final word on any material or process, i.e.
a "bible'.
Bob . . .
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
At 10:38 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
Eric,
Take a look at this thread to see what can go wrong:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57856
It's an important discussion and I recommend that
everyone take advantage of what's offered. But keep
in mind that root cause that triggered the discussion
probably had nothing to do with WHERE things
were located in the airplane so much as HOW.
The idea that it's okay to have sloppy or ill-considered
installation of critical hardware as long as you don't
place them next to each other is faulty.
Can you imagine yourself flying along getting
a whiff of smoke or the smell of fuel and then
reassuring yourself, "No sweat, I've got things
properly separated."
The vast majority of unhappy days in the cockpit
are generated by combinations of failure in
craftsmanship, selection of materials or failure
to respect operating limits of machine and/or pilot.
Please do study, evaluate and understand factual
details gleaned from this or any other event. But
be equally studious and cautious of assertions like,
"do it this way and THAT will never happen."
Lack of understanding and attention to detail
can wipe out the reduction of risk offered by
anyone's assertions no matter what their title
is.
Does anyone have date/place info on this
RV-10 event?
Bob . . .
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Z14 regulator voltages |
At 06:26 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
I have installed a Z14 split bus architecture with 2 B&C LR3
regulators. I have a couple of avionics devices that can draw power
from both buses. They will draw power from whichever bus providing
the greater voltage.
In order to ensure that a particular bus normally provides the power
to these devices I will presumably have to have that bus running at a
slightly higher voltage than the other. As provided by B&C the LR3
generates 14.2 volts. I presume that I will have to set the secondary
bus(non preferred current supplier) to a lower voltage.
My question is what voltage should I set the secondary bus to: would
14.0 volts do the trick.
Why are you doing this? The whole idea behind
Z-14 was to cover any single point of failure
with a robust plan-b. What kind of event do you
anticipate that takes down an entire bus structure
such that "dual sources" for some appliances is
called for? The whole architecture of Z-14 is already
set up to offer 4 sources of power for everything
in the airplane no matter what bus the device is
fed from.
My second question is how do I determine the actual voltage of the
adjusted secondary regulator without actually running the alternator
(I'm probably 12 months away from running the engine). In other words
I know how to make the adjustment but I'm not sure how to determine
if the voltage adjustment is accurate.
You can't. All operating adjustments are made
with the alternator turning and anticipated
loads turned on.
Bob . . .
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
I think this is it...
http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=62727
- DjD
--- On Sun, 8/8/10, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question
s.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 10:38 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
Eric,
Take a look at this thread to see what can go wrong:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57856
- It's an important discussion and I recommend that
- everyone take advantage of what's offered. But keep
- in mind that root cause that triggered the discussion
- probably had nothing to do with WHERE things
- were located in the airplane so much as HOW.
- The idea that it's okay to have sloppy or ill-considered
- installation of critical hardware as long as you don't
- place them next to each other is faulty.
- Can you imagine yourself flying along getting
- a whiff of smoke or the smell of fuel and then
- reassuring yourself, "No sweat, I've got things
- properly separated."
- The vast majority of unhappy days in the cockpit
- are generated by combinations of failure in
- craftsmanship, selection of materials or failure
- to respect operating limits of machine and/or pilot.
- Please do study, evaluate and understand factual
- details gleaned from this or any other event. But
- be equally studious and cautious of assertions like,
- "do it this way and THAT will never happen."
- Lack of understanding and attention to detail
- can wipe out the reduction of risk offered by
- anyone's assertions no matter what their title
- is.
- Does anyone have date/place info on this
- RV-10 event?
- Bob . . .
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
NTSB preliminary:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 100509X25424&key=1
- DjD
--- On Sun, 8/8/10, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Firewall Prnetration Question
s.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 10:38 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
Eric,
Take a look at this thread to see what can go wrong:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57856
- It's an important discussion and I recommend that
- everyone take advantage of what's offered. But keep
- in mind that root cause that triggered the discussion
- probably had nothing to do with WHERE things
- were located in the airplane so much as HOW.
- The idea that it's okay to have sloppy or ill-considered
- installation of critical hardware as long as you don't
- place them next to each other is faulty.
- Can you imagine yourself flying along getting
- a whiff of smoke or the smell of fuel and then
- reassuring yourself, "No sweat, I've got things
- properly separated."
- The vast majority of unhappy days in the cockpit
- are generated by combinations of failure in
- craftsmanship, selection of materials or failure
- to respect operating limits of machine and/or pilot.
- Please do study, evaluate and understand factual
- details gleaned from this or any other event. But
- be equally studious and cautious of assertions like,
- "do it this way and THAT will never happen."
- Lack of understanding and attention to detail
- can wipe out the reduction of risk offered by
- anyone's assertions no matter what their title
- is.
- Does anyone have date/place info on this
- RV-10 event?
- Bob . . .
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
NTSB Identification: ERA10LA256
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, May 07, 2010 in Ridgeland, SC
Aircraft: SWEZEY T/MOLNAR D VANS RV-10, registration: N110TD
Injuries: 2 Serious
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.
On May 7, 2010, about 1511 eastern daylight time, an experimental
amateur-built Vans RV-10, N110TD, was destroyed during an explosion after
landing at Ridgeland Airport (3J1), Ridgeland, South Carolina. The
certificated private pilot and passenger were seriously injured. Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the
personal flight, which was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code
of Federal Regulations Part 91.
According to the pilot, earlier in the day he fueled the airplane with
automotive fuel which contained 10 percent alcohol, flew to Athens/Ben Epps
Airport (AHN), Athens, GA, picked up his passenger and then departed from
AHN about 1400. The flight was flown at an altitude of 9,500 feet above mean
sea level and everything "seemed normal." While the airplane was on short
final, "about 200 feet from the runway," he had a "brief whiff" of an odor
similar to "a gas smell." Upon landing the passenger asked if they should
open the door and the pilot stated "wait [un]til we clear the runway." The
airplane back taxied on the runway a short distance and exited the runway on
the taxiway adjacent to the ramp area. As the airplane exited the runway an
explosion caused the windows and door to be blown out. He stated that it was
similar to a "vapor fire" in that there was an intense flash of heat and
fire; however, it did not last long. The occupants exited the airplane. The
pilot returned to the airplane, utilized the on board hand held fire
extinguisher, and extinguished the fire on the floor of the cabin. As he was
walking away from the airplane towards his passenger, the airplane
"exploded" a second time and was engulfed in flames within moments. The
pilot normally "raises the flaps after clearing the runway;" however, could
not recall if he had raised the flaps just prior to the first explosion.
According to the co-owner of the airplane it had been inspected on January
2, 2010 and the "tunnel" for the fuel line was inspected and free of debris.
He stated that normally they use "93 octane auto fuel;" however, they can
use 100 LL aviation fuel. He further stated that he had flown the airplane
about 2 or 3 weeks prior and did not detect any odors. Examination of the
airplane by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aviation safety inspectors
revealed that the airplane was completely consumed by fire. Only a small
portion of the tail section, and the engine area forward of the firewall had
not been consumed by fire.
The pilot held a private pilot certificate with a rating for airplane
single-engine land and a repair man experimental aircraft builder
certificate with inspection certificate for the accident airplane. The
pilot's most recent FAA third-class medical certificate was issued in April
2009. During a phone interview with the NTSB investigator in charge the
pilot reported approximately 300 total hours of flight experience and
approximately 135 total hours of flight experience in the accident airplane.
He further reported that his logbook was in the airplane at the time of the
accident. According to FAA records, the airplane was manufactured and
issued a special airworthiness certificate in 2008. The airplane was
equipped with a Chevrolet 2006 LS-2 engine and a Vesta 3B78 propeller. The
pilot reported to the NTSB that during the accident flight the airplane had
just gone over 150 total hours time in service.
The 1456 recorded weather at Beaufort Marine Corp Air Station (NBC),
Beaufort, South Carolina located 14 nautical miles to the east of the
accident location included winds from 140 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 7
miles, few clouds at 6,000 feet above ground level, temperature 32 degrees
C, dew point 16 degrees C, and the altimeter setting was 29.98 inches of
mercury.
-----Original Message-----
Does anyone have date/place info on this
RV-10 event?
Bob . . .
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Icom A6 Power Supply |
Jim,
There maybe a small flaw in your "10 ohm" conclusion.
As the A24 battery charges using your method and the voltage rises in the
battery, the current will taper off. So far, so good. However, it will go
into a mode of such low current that the 10 ohm resister becomes nearly
invisible. This then, will allow the A24 battery set to eventually rise to
the full level of the voltage source....13+ volts.
Maybe this is Ok, most cases it is not. If the radio is used for just a
short time during flying and then, disconnected from the 12+ source, most
likely this will stop any overcharging effect. If left connected to the
source voltage, then the A24 battery will eventually reach that value also,
which could be damaging.....
...2 cents... worth.
David
_________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "rose9065f" <rrr.cavu@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 6:57 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply
>
> I made a cable with a 10 ohm resistor in series with the 12 volt feed from
> the plane to the A24. This puts a small charge into the A24 battery, but
> the radio still operates from its internal battery. Works fine. !0 ohms
> is not too critical. The wall charger says 200ma. Dropping 13 volts to
> 11.7 at 200ma is about 6.5 ohms Bigger resistor smaller trickle charge.
>
> Jim
>
> --------
> KF2 582
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307849#307849
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
Good Afternoon Eric,
Seems to me I remember 'Lectric Bob recommending something similar many
moons ago. As I recall, he recommended a thin wall copper tubing with all
those wires inside it and using the copper tube as the ground. Don't think he
recommended fuel lines be included though!
Anyone else remember that idea!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 8/8/2010 9:10:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
emjones@charter.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
Aeroelectric Listers,
My vision for firewall penetrations includes the following: Let's envision
a channel cut into the bottom of the airplane from under the firewall to
as far back as needed. Sort of like the transmission and drive-shaft tunnel
in an automobile.
I would put into it fuel lines, battery lines from rear-mounted battery to
front-mounted starter. etc.
How does this look as far as the FAA firewall regs? What problems am I not
seeing? Has this been done in other airplanes?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307914#307914
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New Z-8 drawing |
Bob,
Per your last post, re your grand daughter
> The design goal is to be able to shut down
> as much of the electrical system as possible
> without killing the engine.
Sometimes I feel this is applicable to my nephews. :D
> So your original idea for tasking a single contactor
> with ground power management AND b-lead crash
> safety has some warm fuzzies about it.
There are two concerns here with my set-up. See attachment
1.My ground power jack positve lead to the contactor is about 30". When the SB
alternator is on line the GPJ lead is hot to the battery through a 40a MANL .
I reasoned that worst case, like a shorted diode plate in the alt, the MANL would
keep things from getting out of hand should the 4AWG GPJ lead be breached
by anything, that I don't like to think about, during inflight SB alt ops.
2. To control the GPJ/SB alt contactor by the SB Alt switch, without having to
remember to close the GPJ contactor, I have two parallel switch legs from the
neg side of the contactor coil to ground. One for
the GPJ per the Z figure and one for a leg of the DPDT switch that has 9024 control
of the SB alt.on the other leg.
Other than inadvertently closing the GPJ/SB alt contactor by the GP switch and
putting both alts online at once (are there bad things that happen??), I can't
see any problems with doing this. But when asking a system to do double duty,
I'd like some other eyes to have a look for gotchas.
And speaking of double duty, could the 9024 Ovm on the contactor also dispense
with the need for the (9005 LVM) on the Batt bus?
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307962#307962
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/z8_w_sb_alt_gpj_conceptual__462.pdf
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Icom A6 Power Supply |
At 12:37 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>
>Jim,
>There maybe a small flaw in your "10 ohm" conclusion.
>As the A24 battery charges using your method and the voltage rises
>in the battery, the current will taper off. So far, so
>good. However, it will go into a mode of such low current that the
>10 ohm resister becomes nearly invisible. This then, will allow the
>A24 battery set to eventually rise to the full level of the voltage
>source....13+ volts.
>
>Maybe this is Ok, most cases it is not. If the radio is used for
>just a short time during flying and then, disconnected from the 12+
>source, most likely this will stop any overcharging effect. If left
>connected to the source voltage, then the A24 battery will
>eventually reach that value also, which could be damaging.....
>...2 cents... worth.
>David
Excellent observation Dave. An alternative solution
was proposed wherein a series of diodes were
placed in series with the supply line. Each
diode contributes its own forward conduction
drop on the order of .6 volts per diode. This
approach simply tosses off a relatively fixed
amount of voltage.
The problem with both of these configurations
is that the output voltage to the radio is
not very stable for all conditions. This
is why most designers will include some sort
of active regulation in their external power
adapters.
The switchmode device that started this
thread is the most efficient and can be quite
small for it's capabilities. But these
necessarily include POWER oscillators which
can and do behave like little transmitters.
The minimum-risk approach for the electronic
handy-man is some form of linear regulator . . .
which demands consideration for "head-room"
or "drop-out" voltage. This is a characteristic
of all step-down regulators that defines
how well it performs as the input voltage
falls toward the same value as the output
voltage.
The diagram I posted yesterday promises
good output regulation with an input as
low as 1.6 volts above output. There
are specialty regulators that offer lower
dropout voltage but as long as we're not
attempting to charge batteries or get
rated performance with a dead alternator,
then the diagram posted offers good value.
Bob . . .
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
At 12:15 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
Examination of the airplane by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
aviation safety inspectors revealed that the airplane was completely
consumed by fire. Only a small portion of the tail section, and the
engine area forward of the firewall had not been consumed by fire.
Thanks for tracking this down Bob . . .
Obviously, there will be no autopsy on the airplane.
I hope the occupants are well recovered.
A high energy explosion like this suggests
a significant volume of relatively gas-tight
space "stoked" with fuel vapor and
ignited at or near stoichiometric ratio
for ideal combustion. Given the time at
which the explosion occurred, the flap
motor is a high-probability as ignition
source. Identification of the leak is
going to be anyone's guess.
I've read reports where fuel or other fluids
were observed to be dripping from an airplane
were the leak was some distance away and the
fluid simply followed the inside of the skin.
It's inarguable that there was a leak and
equally inarguable that there was an ignition
source. But until further data becomes available,
using this incident as a foundation for discussion
of best practices would be rather unproductive.
Bob . . .
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Newbie needs electric help |
I have an Infinity Commander Powered Parachute with a Rotax 582 engine
and a Grand Rapids EIS Model 2000G. I have NO experience with this type
of electrical system (I know some house wiring). My question is I would
like to add a 12v (cigarette) type receptacle to power my GPS, Radio,
Comtronics Dual Com etc. Michael Huffman recommended your book- Version
12? Would this be basic enough to take me through the steps? THANKS in
Advance
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Mike Jack wiring |
I have a question about a symbol in the wiring diagram. It's a circle
with a terminal connector coming from the Mike common terminal and
it's around the mike ring terminal wire. Does this mean I have to
connect the common terminal wire to the shielding of the ring wire?
Thanks so much.
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Mike Jack wiring |
At 10:44 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have a question about a symbol in the wiring diagram. It's a circle
>with a terminal connector coming from the Mike common terminal and
>it's around the mike ring terminal wire. Does this mean I have to
>connect the common terminal wire to the shielding of the ring wire?
Yes.
Bob . . .
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Newbie needs electric help |
At 10:39 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>I have an Infinity Commander Powered Parachute with a Rotax 582
>engine and a Grand Rapids EIS Model 2000G. I have NO experience with
>this type of electrical system (I know some house wiring). My
>question is I would like to add a 12v (cigarette) type receptacle to
>power my GPS, Radio, Comtronics Dual Com etc. Michael Huffman
>recommended your book- Version 12? Would this be basic enough to
>take me through the steps? THANKS in Advance
I don't think you need the book for this task . . .
If you have a cigar lighter connector in hand,
just hook it to your battery. Shell of the
connector goes to battery (-), center terminal
of the connector goes to battery (+).
Install a 3A fuse in the (+) lead right at the
battery. 20AWG wire would be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Prnetration Question |
At 02:20 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Good Afternoon Eric,
>
>Seems to me I remember 'Lectric Bob recommending something similar
>many moons ago. As I recall, he recommended a thin wall copper
>tubing with all those wires inside it and using the copper tube as
>the ground. Don't think he recommended fuel lines be included though!
>
>Anyone else remember that idea!
Sure. The first few of the Rutan pushers I was
involved with experimented with a copper tube
conduit and ground system that ran from nose mounted battery
to the fire wall.
Emacs!
There were a few airplanes built this way but it proved to
be a lot of work with little benefit. I took the suggestion
out of later revisions to the 'Connection.
Bob . . .
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|