Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:49 AM - Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure (Scott Klemptner)
2. 08:19 AM - Re: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure (Jared Yates)
3. 10:11 AM - Re: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 10:47 AM - Re: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 03:45 PM - headset cushions (bob noffs)
6. 03:59 PM - Re: headset cushions (Richard Dudley)
7. 06:55 PM - Re: headset cushions (F. Tim Yoder)
8. 06:57 PM - Re: headset cushions (DeWitt (Dee) Whittington)
9. 07:27 PM - Re: headset cushions (Ken)
Message 1
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Subject: | Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure |
speaking from experience,
the Lamar "box" as found in current production Cessna's is a royal PITA for
maintenance....
job...replace starter relay 2000 cessna 172 (for the second time!)
remove ground wire from battery
remove several buss bars (mounting bolts obstructed)
remove master relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
remove avionics relay(mounting bolts obstructed)
remove ground power relay(mounting bolts obstructed)
remove and replace starter relay(mounting bolts obstructed)
replace ground power relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
replace avionics relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
replace master relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
replace buss bars (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
replace ground wire to battery
TIME INVOLVED over 2 hours
=====================================
job...replace starter relay 1971 cessna 150
remove ground wire at battery (optional IMO as there are NO hot wires near the
starter relay)
remove and replace starter relay
replace ground wire at battery (optional IMO as there are NO hot wires near the
starter relay)
TIME INVOLVED 10 minutes (15 if ground wire removed)
Scott A Klemptner
bmwr606 on Yahoo IM
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits-
Anonymous
________________________________
F
Time: 10:33:00 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure
At 04:09 PM 8/13/2010, you wrote:
>I was thinking about how it might be convenient to house some of the
>electrical components on the hot side of the firewall inside of an
>environmentally sealed plastic box. Most land vehicles use
>something similar, and if I remember correctly Cessna started doing
>something similar on their post-1997 production singles. The items
>that I had in mind were the contactors, current limiters, shunts,
>maybe a small fuse block for the battery bus, and that sort of
>thing. The box would keep out the engine compartment grime, and
>there are lots of different designs available in the sporting goods
>industry. Has anyone done something similar, or can anyone think of
>why this would be a bad idea?
The strongest motivation for doing such
things in production had to do with modularizing
certain tasks which were ultimately farmed out
to other firms. Lamar and Kelly were both
examples of firms offering assemblies of
many parts that were installed as a simpler,
single operation on the production line.
While elegant in terms of labor to install,
it was less than elegant in terms of weight,
cooling, being able to optimally position
contained components and hassles of working
inside a more constrained space for maintenance.
Nonetheless, it's something of a "fad" . . .
There's a big power distribution box in
the tail of a Premier that's easy to install,
easy to take out and set on the bench . . .
but in the airplane it's impossible to
troubleshoot and out of the airplane you
can't operate it for the purposes of
troubleshooting.
Production line convenience was traded for
weight and constraints on field maintenance.
What ever rings your bells . . .
Bob . . .
_
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure |
Good points, thanks for the info. With your advice and Bob's, I'll save the t
rouble and find something else to spend time on. On a related note, would th
e "liquid electrical tape" stuff be suitable for insulating some of those ex
posed hot conductors?
On Aug 15, 2010, at 10:47, Scott Klemptner <bmwr606@yahoo.com> wrote:
> speaking from experience,
> the Lamar "box" as found in current production Cessna's is a royal PITA f
or maintenance....
>
> job...replace starter relay 2000 cessna 172 (for the second time!)
> remove ground wire from battery
> remove several buss bars (mounting bolts obstructed)
> remove master relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
> remove avionics relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
> remove ground power relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
> remove and replace starter relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
> replace ground power relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?
)
> replace avionics relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
> replace master relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
> replace buss bars (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
> replace ground wire to battery
>
> TIME INVOLVED over 2 hours
>
> =========================
============
> job...replace starter relay 1971 cessna 150
>
> remove ground wire at battery (optional IMO as there are NO hot wires near
the starter relay)
> remove and replace starter relay
> replace ground wire at battery (optional IMO as there are NO hot wires nea
r the starter relay)
>
> TIME INVOLVED 10 minutes (15 if ground wire removed)
>
> Scott A Klemptner
> bmwr606 on Yahoo IM
>
> The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits-
Anonymous
>
>
>
>
>
> F
>
>
> Time: 10:33:00 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure
>
>
> At 04:09 PM 8/13/2010, you wrote:
> >I was thinking about how it might be convenient to house some of the
> >electrical components on the hot side of the firewall inside of an
> >environmentally sealed plastic box. Most land vehicles use
> >something similar, and if I remember correctly Cessna started doing
> >something similar on their post-1997 production singles. The items
> >that I had in mind were the contactors, current limiters, shunts,
> >maybe a small fuse block for the battery bus, and that sort of
> >thing. The box would keep out the engine compartment grime, and
> >there are lots of different designs available in the sporting goods
> >industry. Has anyone done something similar, or can anyone think of
> >why this would be a bad idea?
>
> The strongest motivation for doing such
> things in production had to do with modularizing
> certain tasks which were ultimately farmed out
> to other firms. Lamar and Kelly were both
> examples of firms offering assemblies of
> many parts that were installed as a simpler,
> single operation on the production line.
>
> While elegant in terms of labor to install,
> it was less than elegant in terms of weight,
> cooling, being able to optimally position
> contained components and hassles of working
> inside a more constrained space for maintenance.
>
> Nonetheless, it's something of a "fad" . . .
> There's a big power distribution box in
> the tail of a Premier that's easy to install,
> easy to take out and set on the bench . . .
> but in the airplane it's impossible to
> troubleshoot and out of the airplane you
> can't operate it for the purposes of
> troubleshooting.
>
> Production line convenience was traded for
> weight and constraints on field maintenance.
>
> What ever rings your bells . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure |
At 10:18 AM 8/15/2010, you wrote:
>Good points, thanks for the info. With your advice and Bob's, I'll
>save the trouble and find something else to spend time on. On a
>related note, would the "liquid electrical tape" stuff be suitable
>for insulating some of those exposed hot conductors?
To what purpose? There are thousands of instances
on multi-millions of vehicles where there are "exposed
hazards". Fans, fan belts, whirling propellers, sucking
engine intakes, pinch points, non-insulated electrical
connections, etc. etc.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Breaker_Panel_Busing_2.jpg
The firewall of an A36 Bonanza is covered with exposed,
high current electrical connections.
The questions to be asked and answered are, what conditions
are necessary to make risks for these potential hazards
to rise to significance. For example, taxiing up to the pumps
on a little airport with no human being in sight is a
significantly lower risk for getting your propeller messy
than at an airshow with little kids running around with abandon.
Take each instance of concern. Are there others like it on
other airplanes? Particularly airplanes with long production
histories? Imagine the task of approaching this configuration
with crowbar and hammer in hand with a task, "go forth my son
and cause some part of the airplane to contact this exposed
terminal."
With some reasonably attentive study and application
of common sense, I think you'll find that the risks
are so low as to not be worthy of concern . . . for
there are OTHER risks to flight that are worthy of
much concern.
Finally, "liquid tape" is probably not a material
worthy of critical application anywhere. It's nothing
more robust than some coating of plastic paint that
one might brush over any surface.
It's been my experience that the more you try to
"cover things up" for what ever reason, the more
likely you are to trap moisture underneath imperfect
coatings and set up conditions for corrosion to
progress un-observed.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Firewall Hot-Side Enclosure |
At 09:47 AM 8/15/2010, you wrote:
>speaking from experience,
>the Lamar "box" as found in current production Cessna's is a royal
>PITA for maintenance....
>
>job...replace starter relay 2000 cessna 172 (for the second time!)
>remove ground wire from battery
>remove several buss bars (mounting bolts obstructed)
>remove master relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
>remove avionics relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
>remove ground power relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
>remove and replace starter relay (mounting bolts obstructed)
>replace ground power relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
>replace avionics relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
>replace master relay (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
>replace buss bars (remember those @#%& obstructed mounting bolts?)
>replace ground wire to battery
>
>TIME INVOLVED over 2 hours
Yup, your first hand experience conforms with my
first-hand impressions for having seen one such
assembly for the first time. I'll suggest that
such inventions are the product of folks who have
never turned a wrench yet are charged with "modularizing"
portions of the airplane for "manufacturing convenience".
This trend gives rise to the notion that if you
modularized 99% of the airplane's components
and systems, those modules can be farmed out.
Then all we have to do is bring in truck-loads
of tinker-toys, put tab-A-into-slot-B and presto-
changeo, you have an airplane.
That concept bit Boeing in the hind end
big time on the 787. But it's amazing to watch
the same experiment being tried over and over
again by individuals who are surprised with
the results.
I'm not suggesting that modularizing is always
bad. Certainly engines, radios, instruments,
etc have been proven by many repeatable experiments
to lend themselves well to outside production.
But there are limits beyond which the return
on investment becomes exceedingly poor.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | headset cushions |
hi all, i have a lightspeed headset that has become separated from the cloth
covered ear cushions. cushions and headset are fine but some adhesive to
reconnect.
anyone have a solution ?
bob noffs
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: headset cushions |
Hi Bob,
I've owned two Lightspeed headsets. On several occasions, there were
problems with the cushions. I contacted the manufacturer, and they sent
me new ones free of charge. On another occasion, the sheathing of the
wires to or from the battery box had slipped uncovering the insulation
of the wires. This time they said send them the headset and they would
repair free of charge. I would suggest that you discuss your problem
them with. If their policy has not changed, i expect that they will
repair or replace parts without charge.
Regards,
Rich Dudley
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
To: aeroelectric list
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: headset cushions
hi all, i have a lightspeed headset that has become separated from the
cloth covered ear cushions. cushions and headset are fine but some
adhesive to reconnect.
anyone have a solution ?
bob noffs
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: headset cushions |
If you send it back to them they will probably fix it for free and maybe
give you some upgrades, depending on the model.
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
To: aeroelectric list
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: headset cushions
hi all, i have a lightspeed headset that has become separated from the
cloth covered ear cushions. cushions and headset are fine but some
adhesive to reconnect.
anyone have a solution ?
bob noffs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08/14/10 23:35:00
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: headset cushions |
Yes, Rchard, I've twice sent my old Lightspeeds back to the company
and twice I got refurbished, new looking headsets back...free. Great
folks.
Dew
On Sunday, August 15, 2010, Richard Dudley <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'veowned two Lightspeed headsets. On several occasions,
> there were problems with the cushions. I contacted the manufacturer, and they
> sent me new ones free of charge. On another occasion, thesheathing of the
> wires to or from the battery box had slipped uncovering the insulation of the
> wires.This timethey said send them the headset and they would repair
> free of charge. I would suggest that youdiscuss your problemthem
> with. If their policy has not changed, i expect that they will repair or replace
> parts without charge.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Dudley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> bob noffs<icubob@gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric list<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:43
> PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: headset
> cushions
>
>
> hi all, i have a lightspeed headset that has become separated from the
> cloth covered ear cushions. cushions and headset are fine but some adhesive
to
> reconnect.
> anyone have a solution ?
> bob noffs
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
--
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with partners
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: headset cushions |
Contact cement works fine. Better than the original glue.
Ken
bob noffs wrote:
> hi all, i have a lightspeed headset that has become separated from the
> cloth covered ear cushions. cushions and headset are fine but some
> adhesive to reconnect.
> anyone have a solution ?
> bob noffs
>
>
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