Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:56 AM - GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jeffrey Bougher)
2. 06:07 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Robert Borger)
3. 07:15 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jay Hyde)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (John Grosse)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Kelly McMullen)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Bill Boyd)
7. 08:14 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Tim Andres)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: New operations model for the AeroElectric Connection (Richard Girard)
9. 09:05 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Roger)
10. 01:56 PM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jeffrey Bougher)
11. 02:43 PM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (dave.gribble@mchsi.com)
12. 03:22 PM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Robert Mitchell)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not
good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there
is a lot of knowledge on this board.
I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and
portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose
GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back,
sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent.
When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite.
Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until
taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to
acquire.
Two recent sample flights.
Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about
same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up
satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up
satellites until back on the ground.
Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into
flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396
reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
Notes:
* The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had
similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both
occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
* The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the
430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more
consistent now.
* I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there
was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no
problems.
* Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a
lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
* I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on
battery and it makes no difference.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jeff
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
Jeff,
First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna and ensure
the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance of the 430.
Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions:
1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 or a remote
antenna? If a remote antenna, what type?
2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own antenna?
3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted?
4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or other defects
in routing which could cause intermittent failures.
5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS units?
Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot.
Good luck,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
> I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not
good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that
there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
>
> I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable
Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS
signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes
I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When
I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime
around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway,
so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire.
>
> Two recent sample flights.
> Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about
same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites
and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites
until back on the ground.
>
> Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into
flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires
satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
>
> Notes:
> * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar
occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences
were an hour or more into flight.
> * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the
430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent
now.
> * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there
was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems.
> * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish
cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
> * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery
and it makes no difference.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
Something else that you might want to look at is the antenna cable length;
in the MGL instrument this is a very specific length that comes already
prepared with the antenna. The instructions say not to cut this but to
bundle it; some people do cut the cable and shorten it but this seriously
degrades the performance of the GPS as the cable is a tuned length.
Not sure if this applies to other GPS makes but its likely, so check that
the cable is as per the original factory specification.
Jay
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Borger
Sent: 24 August 2010 03:05 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
Jeff,
First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna and
ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance of the
430.
Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions:
1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 or a
remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type?
2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own
antenna?
3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted?
4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or other
defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures.
5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS units?
Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot.
Good luck,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally
not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is
that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and
portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I
lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal
back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is
intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal
on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not
really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS
seems to always be able to acquire.
Two recent sample flights.
Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at
about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430
picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't
pick up satellites until back on the ground.
Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes
into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396
reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
Notes:
* The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had
similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both
occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
* The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on
the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH
more consistent now.
* I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if
there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station
reported no problems.
* Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a
lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
* I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on
battery and it makes no difference.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jeff
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
I don't think it would affect the 396, but I don't understand why your
avionics shop would leave the original antenna in place. It is not the
same as the antenna for the 430W and I'm surprised it works at all.
John Grosse
Jay Hyde wrote:
>
> Something else that you might want to look at is the antenna cable
> length; in the MGL instrument this is a very specific length that
> comes already prepared with the antenna. The instructions say not to
> cut this but to bundle it; some people do cut the cable and shorten it
> but this seriously degrades the performance of the GPS as the cable is
> a tuned length.
>
> Not sure if this applies to other GPS makes but its likely, so check
> that the cable is as per the original factory specification.
>
> Jay
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Robert Borger
> *Sent:* 24 August 2010 03:05 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
>
> Jeff,
>
> First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna
> and ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance
> of the 430.
>
> Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions:
>
> 1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 or
> a remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type?
>
> 2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own
> antenna?
>
> 3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted?
>
> 4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or
> other defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures.
>
> 5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS units?
>
> Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Bob Borger
>
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
>
> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
>
> http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
>
> Europa Flying!
>
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>
> Corinth, TX 76208
>
> Home: 940-497-2123
>
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
>
>
> I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and
> generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I
> have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
>
> I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430
> and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes
> and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get
> GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal
> back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't
> show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS
> back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but
> ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire.
>
> Two recent sample flights.
> Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS
> at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes,
> 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396
> doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground.
>
> Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40
> minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour -
> 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until
> back on ground.
>
> Notes:
> * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and
> had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I
> recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
> * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying
> on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems
> MUCH more consistent now.
> * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center
> if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on
> station reported no problems.
> * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was
> under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
> * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only
> on battery and it makes no difference.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
> * *
> * *
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
The most common cause of loss of satellites (besides military jamming)
is com or nav frequencies that interfere from other radios in the
cockpit. The AC20-138A for GPS install calls out the frequencies that
must be tested before a unit can be signed off in the aircraft.
On 8/24/2010 7:24 AM, John Grosse wrote:
> <grosseair@comcast.net>
>
> I don't think it would affect the 396, but I don't understand why your
> avionics shop would leave the original antenna in place. It is not the
> same as the antenna for the 430W and I'm surprised it works at all.
>
> John Grosse
>
> Jay Hyde wrote:
>>
>> Something else that you might want to look at is the antenna cable
>> length; in the MGL instrument this is a very specific length that
>> comes already prepared with the antenna. The instructions say not to
>> cut this but to bundle it; some people do cut the cable and shorten
>> it but this seriously degrades the performance of the GPS as the
>> cable is a tuned length.
>>
>> Not sure if this applies to other GPS makes but its likely, so check
>> that the cable is as per the original factory specification.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Robert Borger
>> *Sent:* 24 August 2010 03:05 PM
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna
>> and ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance
>> of the 430.
>>
>> Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions:
>>
>> 1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396
>> or a remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type?
>>
>> 2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own
>> antenna?
>>
>> 3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted?
>>
>> 4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or
>> other defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures.
>>
>> 5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS
>> units?
>>
>> Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Bob Borger
>>
>> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
>>
>> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
>>
>> http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
>>
>> Europa Flying!
>>
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>>
>> Corinth, TX 76208
>>
>> Home: 940-497-2123
>>
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and
>> generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I
>> have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
>>
>> I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin
>> 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45
>> minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously.
>> Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I
>> get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS
>> page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around
>> touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so
>> don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to
>> acquire.
>>
>> Two recent sample flights.
>> Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS
>> at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30
>> minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of
>> flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground.
>>
>> Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40
>> minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour
>> - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires
>> until back on ground.
>>
>> Notes:
>> * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and
>> had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I
>> recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
>> * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still
>> flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but
>> it seems MUCH more consistent now.
>> * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center
>> if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on
>> station reported no problems.
>> * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was
>> under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous
>> events.
>> * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running
>> only on battery and it makes no difference.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>
>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
Jeff, I've had interference issues when two GPS active patch antennas were
co-located on the glareshield - neither would acquire until one was turned
off or moved a good bit away. I figured out what was up when I added the
second GPS antenna (for an APRS tracker) and the Garmin 296 suddenly went
"blind." Locating the tracker GPS puck antenna in the aft baggage area
(perhaps 3.5 feet line of sight from the Garmin antenna) has completely
solved the issue. Just a thought. Not sure why your problem only appears
once airborne - that is most curious.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>wrote:
> I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally
> not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is
> that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
>
> I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and
> portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I
> lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal
> back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is
> intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal
> on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not
> really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS
> seems to always be able to acquire.
>
> Two recent sample flights.
> Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at
> about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430
> picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't
> pick up satellites until back on the ground.
>
> Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes
> into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396
> reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
>
> Notes:
> * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had
> similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both
> occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
> * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on
> the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH
> more consistent now.
> * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if
> there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station
> reported no problems.
> * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a
> lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
> * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on
> battery and it makes no difference.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
First, the 430W antenna is not compatible with the 430 and the fact that you
had a problem before pretty much narrows it down to a bad and/or incorrect
antenna. Where are your antennas located? What else is in close proximity to
the them? I would suggest you make sure you have the correct antenna for
each unit and it is placed where it will not be next to other electrical
devices and has a good view of the sky. Fiberglass should only attenuate the
signal very slightly and for our purposes can be considered not there.
Assuming there is not some kind of special coatings on the glass. I'm just
guessing here but could you have the 2 antennas mixed up?
Tim Andres
<mailto:rnbraud@yahoo.com>
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Bougher
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:54 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally
not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is
that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and
portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I
lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal
back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is
intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal
on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not
really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS
seems to always be able to acquire.
Two recent sample flights.
Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at
about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430
picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't
pick up satellites until back on the ground.
Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes
into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396
reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
Notes:
* The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had
similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both
occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
* The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on
the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH
more consistent now.
* I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if
there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station
reported no problems.
* Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a
lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
* I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on
battery and it makes no difference.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jeff
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11:34:00
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: New operations model for the AeroElectric Connection |
Yes, my old Bridgeport has a DRO, but I just use dial indicators on my lathe
when I have to work to better than a thousandth or so.
Rick
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 10:17 PM 8/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>> All I can do is offer to return the favor, Bob, if you ever need any
>> machine work for a project, I'd be happy to help.
>>
>
> Do you have a mill with a digital readout?
>
> My little Kolb continues to fly along with zero electrical issues.
>> Security like that is absolutely priceless, IMHO.
>>
>
> Great news!
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . >
> < show me where I'm wrong. >
> ================================
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and
generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have
learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin
430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45
minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes
I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS
signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it
doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I
get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know
when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire.
Thanks,
Jeff
My thought would be to operate your GPS on it's inernal battery,
and when it fails, turn off your master switch to kill everything
electrical, so the only thing still running is the engine. If the GPS
comes back, then it is probably something in the panel, if it doesn't
start working then the problem may be in the GPS. If it is in the
panel, you can then go through a process of elimination by restoring
power to the panel and shutting down each electronic device
individually until the problem goes away.
Roger
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
Nope, separate antennas. This is what baffles me. The only think they share in
common is that they are GPSs, they are made by Garmin and they are in my plane
:^). That is why I made sure on one trip that the 396 was not even plugged into
the cigarette lighter - still lost signal at same time as 430.
Jeff
________________________________
From: S. Ramirez <simon@synchdes.com>
Cc: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:24:46 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
Since both units drop out at the same time, Jeff, I will assume that
they share the same antenna and thus lose signal somehow, probably due
to vibration. Can you please confirm that the 430 and 396 are
using the same antenna?
Thanks.
Simon Ramirez
Oviedo, FL USA
On 8/24/2010 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and
generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I
have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
>
>I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430
>and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes
>and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get
>GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal
>back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't
>show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS
>back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but
>ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire.
>
>Two recent sample flights.
>Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS
>at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes,
>430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396
>doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground.
>
>Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40
>minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour
-
>1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until
>back on ground.
>
>Notes:
>* The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and
>had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I
>recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight.
>* The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying
>on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems
>MUCH more consistent now.
>* I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center
>if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on
>station reported no problems.
>* Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was
>under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous
>events.
>* I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only
>on battery and it makes no difference.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>Jeff
>
>
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
I had a similar problem with my 496. It worked perfectly, but every once in a
while would lose sall atellites and they would stay gone (no signal bars) for
minutes at a time - even many minutes.
I didn't spend a lot of time worrying about it since my plane is VFR and I can
live without the GPS in the local area. One time I was far from home and it happened
and that is how I stumbled on the problem. I had to revert to VOR navigation
and while I was tuning the NAV radio I noticed that I could make the GPS
signal come back. I noticed that when I tuned the NAV2 VOR receiver in my
plane to 114.1 (or any frequency around it) that would completely kill the GPS.
All other VOR frequencies worked fine. Sometimes it would be completely killed,
and sometimes small bars would remain.
What must be happening is that the local oscialltor in the TKM nav radio must have
a harmonic that lands right on the GPS frequency. You could watch the signal
bars go away on the GPS when you tuned the NAV radio. The handheld antenna
on the 496 wasn't helping things, since I was able to show that that was how
the interference was getting into the GPS.
I suspect some other piece of equipment in your plane is interfering with your
GPS. When the GPS(s) fail, start turning things off or tuning them to different
frequencies. You'll find it.
Good Luck,
dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Bougher" <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
Nope, separate antennas. This is what baffles me. The only think they share in
common is that they are GPSs, they are made by Garmin and they are in my plane
:^). That is why I made sure on one trip that the 396 was not even plugged into
the cigarette lighter - still lost signal at same time as 430.
Jeff
From: S. Ramirez <simon@synchdes.com>
Cc: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:24:46 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
Since both units drop out at the same time, Jeff, I will assume that they share
the same antenna and thus lose signal somehow, probably due to vibration. Can
you please confirm that the 430 and 396 are using the same antenna?
Thanks.
Simon Ramirez
Oviedo, FL USA
On 8/24/2010 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not
good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there
is a lot of knowledge on this board.
I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable
Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal
on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes
I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look
at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around
touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't
know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire.
Two recent sample flights.
Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same
time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites
and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites
until back on the ground.
Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into
flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires
satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
Notes:
* The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar
occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences
were an hour or more into flight.
* The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430
antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent
now.
* I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there
was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems.
* Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish
cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
* I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery
and it makes no difference.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jeff
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane |
Also the coax on the 430w is much higher quality shielding than that a called out
in the 430 install. If you don't have the 430w antenna, you really don't have
a 430w!
Bob Mitchell
Twin comanche 42tp
Garmin 430w
Garmin 496
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:40 PM, dave.gribble@mchsi.com wrote:
>
> I had a similar problem with my 496. It worked perfectly, but every once in
a while would lose sall atellites and they would stay gone (no signal bars) for
minutes at a time - even many minutes.
>
> I didn't spend a lot of time worrying about it since my plane is VFR and I can
live without the GPS in the local area. One time I was far from home and it
happened and that is how I stumbled on the problem. I had to revert to VOR navigation
and while I was tuning the NAV radio I noticed that I could make the
GPS signal come back. I noticed that when I tuned the NAV2 VOR receiver in my
plane to 114.1 (or any frequency around it) that would completely kill the GPS.
All other VOR frequencies worked fine. Sometimes it would be completely
killed, and sometimes small bars would remain.
>
> What must be happening is that the local oscialltor in the TKM nav radio must
have a harmonic that lands right on the GPS frequency. You could watch the signal
bars go away on the GPS when you tuned the NAV radio. The handheld antenna
on the 496 wasn't helping things, since I was able to show that that was how
the interference was getting into the GPS.
>
> I suspect some other piece of equipment in your plane is interfering with your
GPS. When the GPS(s) fail, start turning things off or tuning them to different
frequencies. You'll find it.
>
>
> Good Luck,
>
> dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeffrey Bougher" <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
> To: "S. Ramirez" <simon@synchdes.com>, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
>
>
>
> Nope, separate antennas. This is what baffles me. The only think they share
in common is that they are GPSs, they are made by Garmin and they are in my plane
:^). That is why I made sure on one trip that the 396 was not even plugged
into the cigarette lighter - still lost signal at same time as 430.
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
> From: S. Ramirez <simon@synchdes.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Cc: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
> Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:24:46 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
>
> Since both units drop out at the same time, Jeff, I will assume that they share
the same antenna and thus lose signal somehow, probably due to vibration.
Can you please confirm that the 430 and 396 are using the same antenna?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Simon Ramirez
> Oviedo, FL USA
>
>
> On 8/24/2010 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher wrote:
>
>
>
> I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not
good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that
there is a lot of knowledge on this board.
>
> I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable
Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS
signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes
I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When
I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime
around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway,
so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire.
>
> Two recent sample flights.
> Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about
same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites
and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites
until back on the ground.
>
> Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into
flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires
satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground.
>
> Notes:
> * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar
occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences
were an hour or more into flight.
> * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the
430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent
now.
> * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there
was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems.
> * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish
cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events.
> * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery
and it makes no difference.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|