AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 08/24/10


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:56 AM - GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jeffrey Bougher)
     2. 06:07 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Robert Borger)
     3. 07:15 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jay Hyde)
     4. 07:39 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (John Grosse)
     5. 08:06 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Kelly McMullen)
     6. 08:08 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Bill Boyd)
     7. 08:14 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Tim Andres)
     8. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: New operations model for the AeroElectric Connection (Richard Girard)
     9. 09:05 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Roger)
    10. 01:56 PM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jeffrey Bougher)
    11. 02:43 PM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (dave.gribble@mchsi.com)
    12. 03:22 PM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Robert Mitchell)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:56:55 AM PST US
    From: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
    Subject: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. Two recent sample flights. Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. Notes: * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent now. * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems. * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery and it makes no difference. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jeff


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:07:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Jeff, First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna and ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance of the 430. Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions: 1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 or a remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type? 2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own antenna? 3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted? 4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or other defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures. 5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS units? Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot. Good luck, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: > I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. > > I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. > > Two recent sample flights. > Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. > > Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. > > Notes: > * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. > * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent now. > * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems. > * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. > * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery and it makes no difference. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:15:02 AM PST US
    From: "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com>
    Subject: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    Something else that you might want to look at is the antenna cable length; in the MGL instrument this is a very specific length that comes already prepared with the antenna. The instructions say not to cut this but to bundle it; some people do cut the cable and shorten it but this seriously degrades the performance of the GPS as the cable is a tuned length. Not sure if this applies to other GPS makes but its likely, so check that the cable is as per the original factory specification. Jay _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: 24 August 2010 03:05 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane Jeff, First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna and ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance of the 430. Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions: 1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 or a remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type? 2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own antenna? 3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted? 4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or other defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures. 5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS units? Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot. Good luck, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. Two recent sample flights. Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. Notes: * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent now. * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems. * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery and it makes no difference. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jeff href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:39:25 AM PST US
    From: John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    I don't think it would affect the 396, but I don't understand why your avionics shop would leave the original antenna in place. It is not the same as the antenna for the 430W and I'm surprised it works at all. John Grosse Jay Hyde wrote: > > Something else that you might want to look at is the antenna cable > length; in the MGL instrument this is a very specific length that > comes already prepared with the antenna. The instructions say not to > cut this but to bundle it; some people do cut the cable and shorten it > but this seriously degrades the performance of the GPS as the cable is > a tuned length. > > Not sure if this applies to other GPS makes but its likely, so check > that the cable is as per the original factory specification. > > Jay > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Robert Borger > *Sent:* 24 August 2010 03:05 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane > > Jeff, > > First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna > and ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance > of the 430. > > Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions: > > 1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 or > a remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type? > > 2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own > antenna? > > 3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted? > > 4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or > other defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures. > > 5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS units? > > Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot. > > Good luck, > > Bob Borger > > Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S > > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 > > http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 > > Europa Flying! > > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > > Corinth, TX 76208 > > Home: 940-497-2123 > > Cel: 817-992-1117 > > > On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: > > > I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and > generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I > have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. > > I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 > and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes > and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get > GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal > back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't > show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS > back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but > ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. > > Two recent sample flights. > Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS > at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, > 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 > doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. > > Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 > minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - > 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until > back on ground. > > Notes: > * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and > had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I > recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. > * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying > on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems > MUCH more consistent now. > * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center > if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on > station reported no problems. > * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was > under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. > * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only > on battery and it makes no difference. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > * * > * * > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > > * > > > *


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:06:44 AM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    The most common cause of loss of satellites (besides military jamming) is com or nav frequencies that interfere from other radios in the cockpit. The AC20-138A for GPS install calls out the frequencies that must be tested before a unit can be signed off in the aircraft. On 8/24/2010 7:24 AM, John Grosse wrote: > <grosseair@comcast.net> > > I don't think it would affect the 396, but I don't understand why your > avionics shop would leave the original antenna in place. It is not the > same as the antenna for the 430W and I'm surprised it works at all. > > John Grosse > > Jay Hyde wrote: >> >> Something else that you might want to look at is the antenna cable >> length; in the MGL instrument this is a very specific length that >> comes already prepared with the antenna. The instructions say not to >> cut this but to bundle it; some people do cut the cable and shorten >> it but this seriously degrades the performance of the GPS as the >> cable is a tuned length. >> >> Not sure if this applies to other GPS makes but its likely, so check >> that the cable is as per the original factory specification. >> >> Jay >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >> *Robert Borger >> *Sent:* 24 August 2010 03:05 PM >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane >> >> Jeff, >> >> First, you need to upgrade the antenna on the 430 to a WAAS antenna >> and ensure the antenna cable length is correct for proper performance >> of the 430. >> >> Now, on to the GPS signal problem. Some questions: >> >> 1. What are you using for the 396 antenna? Rod attached to the 396 >> or a remote antenna? If a remote antenna, what type? >> >> 2. Are the two units using a single antenna or do each have their own >> antenna? >> >> 3. How and where is/are the antenna/s located and mounted? >> >> 4. How is/are the antenna/s cabling routed? Looking for pinches or >> other defects in routing which could cause intermittent failures. >> >> 5. What is the condition of the antenna cable connection to the GPS >> units? >> >> Perhaps answers to these will help the troubleshoot. >> >> Good luck, >> >> Bob Borger >> >> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S >> >> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 >> >> http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 >> >> Europa Flying! >> >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> >> Corinth, TX 76208 >> >> Home: 940-497-2123 >> >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> >> >> >> On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:54, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: >> >> >> >> I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and >> generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I >> have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. >> >> I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin >> 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 >> minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. >> Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I >> get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS >> page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around >> touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so >> don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to >> acquire. >> >> Two recent sample flights. >> Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS >> at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 >> minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of >> flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. >> >> Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 >> minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour >> - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires >> until back on ground. >> >> Notes: >> * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and >> had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I >> recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. >> * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still >> flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but >> it seems MUCH more consistent now. >> * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center >> if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on >> station reported no problems. >> * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was >> under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous >> events. >> * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running >> only on battery and it makes no difference. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Thanks, >> Jeff >> >> * * >> * * >> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >> >> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* >> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> >> * > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:08:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com>
    Jeff, I've had interference issues when two GPS active patch antennas were co-located on the glareshield - neither would acquire until one was turned off or moved a good bit away. I figured out what was up when I added the second GPS antenna (for an APRS tracker) and the Garmin 296 suddenly went "blind." Locating the tracker GPS puck antenna in the aft baggage area (perhaps 3.5 feet line of sight from the Garmin antenna) has completely solved the issue. Just a thought. Not sure why your problem only appears once airborne - that is most curious. Bill Boyd RV-6A On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>wrote: > I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally > not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is > that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. > > I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and > portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I > lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal > back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is > intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal > on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not > really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS > seems to always be able to acquire. > > Two recent sample flights. > Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at > about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 > picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't > pick up satellites until back on the ground. > > Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes > into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 > reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. > > Notes: > * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had > similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both > occurrences were an hour or more into flight. > * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on > the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH > more consistent now. > * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if > there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station > reported no problems. > * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a > lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. > * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on > battery and it makes no difference. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > * > > * > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:14:23 AM PST US
    From: "Tim Andres" <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    First, the 430W antenna is not compatible with the 430 and the fact that you had a problem before pretty much narrows it down to a bad and/or incorrect antenna. Where are your antennas located? What else is in close proximity to the them? I would suggest you make sure you have the correct antenna for each unit and it is placed where it will not be next to other electrical devices and has a good view of the sky. Fiberglass should only attenuate the signal very slightly and for our purposes can be considered not there. Assuming there is not some kind of special coatings on the glass. I'm just guessing here but could you have the 2 antennas mixed up? Tim Andres <mailto:rnbraud@yahoo.com> _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Bougher Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. Two recent sample flights. Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. Notes: * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent now. * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems. * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery and it makes no difference. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jeff Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11:34:00


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:50:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New operations model for the AeroElectric Connection
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Yes, my old Bridgeport has a DRO, but I just use dial indicators on my lathe when I have to work to better than a thousandth or so. Rick On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 10:17 PM 8/22/2010, you wrote: > >> All I can do is offer to return the favor, Bob, if you ever need any >> machine work for a project, I'd be happy to help. >> > > Do you have a mill with a digital readout? > > My little Kolb continues to fly along with zero electrical issues. >> Security like that is absolutely priceless, IMHO. >> > > Great news! > > > Bob . . . > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ================================ > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:05:08 AM PST US
    From: "Roger" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com> wrote: I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. Thanks, Jeff My thought would be to operate your GPS on it's inernal battery, and when it fails, turn off your master switch to kill everything electrical, so the only thing still running is the engine. If the GPS comes back, then it is probably something in the panel, if it doesn't start working then the problem may be in the GPS. If it is in the panel, you can then go through a process of elimination by restoring power to the panel and shutting down each electronic device individually until the problem goes away. Roger


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:56:00 PM PST US
    From: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    Nope, separate antennas. This is what baffles me. The only think they share in common is that they are GPSs, they are made by Garmin and they are in my plane :^). That is why I made sure on one trip that the 396 was not even plugged into the cigarette lighter - still lost signal at same time as 430. Jeff ________________________________ From: S. Ramirez <simon@synchdes.com> Cc: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:24:46 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane Since both units drop out at the same time, Jeff, I will assume that they share the same antenna and thus lose signal somehow, probably due to vibration. Can you please confirm that the 430 and 396 are using the same antenna? Thanks. Simon Ramirez Oviedo, FL USA On 8/24/2010 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. > >I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 >and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes >and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get >GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal >back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't >show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS >back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but >ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. > >Two recent sample flights. >Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS >at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, >430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 >doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. > >Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 >minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - >1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until >back on ground. > >Notes: >* The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and >had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I >recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. >* The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying >on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems >MUCH more consistent now. >* I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center >if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on >station reported no problems. >* Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was >under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous >events. >* I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only >on battery and it makes no difference. > >Any thoughts? > >Thanks, >Jeff > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:43:54 PM PST US
    From: dave.gribble@mchsi.com
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    I had a similar problem with my 496. It worked perfectly, but every once in a while would lose sall atellites and they would stay gone (no signal bars) for minutes at a time - even many minutes. I didn't spend a lot of time worrying about it since my plane is VFR and I can live without the GPS in the local area. One time I was far from home and it happened and that is how I stumbled on the problem. I had to revert to VOR navigation and while I was tuning the NAV radio I noticed that I could make the GPS signal come back. I noticed that when I tuned the NAV2 VOR receiver in my plane to 114.1 (or any frequency around it) that would completely kill the GPS. All other VOR frequencies worked fine. Sometimes it would be completely killed, and sometimes small bars would remain. What must be happening is that the local oscialltor in the TKM nav radio must have a harmonic that lands right on the GPS frequency. You could watch the signal bars go away on the GPS when you tuned the NAV radio. The handheld antenna on the 496 wasn't helping things, since I was able to show that that was how the interference was getting into the GPS. I suspect some other piece of equipment in your plane is interfering with your GPS. When the GPS(s) fail, start turning things off or tuning them to different frequencies. You'll find it. Good Luck, dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Bougher" <jsbougher@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane Nope, separate antennas. This is what baffles me. The only think they share in common is that they are GPSs, they are made by Garmin and they are in my plane :^). That is why I made sure on one trip that the 396 was not even plugged into the cigarette lighter - still lost signal at same time as 430. Jeff From: S. Ramirez <simon@synchdes.com> Cc: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:24:46 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane Since both units drop out at the same time, Jeff, I will assume that they share the same antenna and thus lose signal somehow, probably due to vibration. Can you please confirm that the 430 and 396 are using the same antenna? Thanks. Simon Ramirez Oviedo, FL USA On 8/24/2010 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. Two recent sample flights. Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. Notes: * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent now. * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems. * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery and it makes no difference. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jeff


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:22:50 PM PST US
    From: Robert Mitchell <rmitch1@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane
    Also the coax on the 430w is much higher quality shielding than that a called out in the 430 install. If you don't have the 430w antenna, you really don't have a 430w! Bob Mitchell Twin comanche 42tp Garmin 430w Garmin 496 Sent from my iPad On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:40 PM, dave.gribble@mchsi.com wrote: > > I had a similar problem with my 496. It worked perfectly, but every once in a while would lose sall atellites and they would stay gone (no signal bars) for minutes at a time - even many minutes. > > I didn't spend a lot of time worrying about it since my plane is VFR and I can live without the GPS in the local area. One time I was far from home and it happened and that is how I stumbled on the problem. I had to revert to VOR navigation and while I was tuning the NAV radio I noticed that I could make the GPS signal come back. I noticed that when I tuned the NAV2 VOR receiver in my plane to 114.1 (or any frequency around it) that would completely kill the GPS. All other VOR frequencies worked fine. Sometimes it would be completely killed, and sometimes small bars would remain. > > What must be happening is that the local oscialltor in the TKM nav radio must have a harmonic that lands right on the GPS frequency. You could watch the signal bars go away on the GPS when you tuned the NAV radio. The handheld antenna on the 496 wasn't helping things, since I was able to show that that was how the interference was getting into the GPS. > > I suspect some other piece of equipment in your plane is interfering with your GPS. When the GPS(s) fail, start turning things off or tuning them to different frequencies. You'll find it. > > > Good Luck, > > dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Bougher" <jsbougher@yahoo.com> > To: "S. Ramirez" <simon@synchdes.com>, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:53:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane > > > > Nope, separate antennas. This is what baffles me. The only think they share in common is that they are GPSs, they are made by Garmin and they are in my plane :^). That is why I made sure on one trip that the 396 was not even plugged into the cigarette lighter - still lost signal at same time as 430. > Jeff > > > > > From: S. Ramirez <simon@synchdes.com> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Cc: Jeffrey Bougher <jsbougher@yahoo.com> > Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:24:46 AM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS outage in fiberglass plane > > Since both units drop out at the same time, Jeff, I will assume that they share the same antenna and thus lose signal somehow, probably due to vibration. Can you please confirm that the 430 and 396 are using the same antenna? > > Thanks. > > Simon Ramirez > Oviedo, FL USA > > > On 8/24/2010 6:54 AM, Jeffrey Bougher wrote: > > > > I fly a purchased Velocity. I'm about 1/3 through Bob's book and generally not good with electrical issues - hence the book. What I have learned is that there is a lot of knowledge on this board. > > I have the following problem. On the ground, panel mounted Garmin 430 and portable Garmin 396 work fine. Take-off and fly for 20-45 minutes and I lose GPS signal on both almost simultaneously. Sometimes I get GPS signal back, sometimes I don't. Sometimes when I get GPS signal back it is intermittent. When I look at the 396 GPS page, it doesn't show ANY signal on ANY satellite. Sometime around touchdown I get GPS back ... I'm not really looking until taxiway, so don't know when, but ON the ground GPS seems to always be able to acquire. > > Two recent sample flights. > Depart both GPSs working, then 40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. This is a 2:20 flight. After another 30 minutes, 430 picks up satellites and maintains through rest of flight. The 396 doesn't pick up satellites until back on the ground. > > Return flight, both GPSs working on ground. Sometime around 30-40 minutes into flight, both drop GPS at about same time. After 1 hour - 1:15, the 396 reacquires satellites. The 430 never reacquires until back on ground. > > Notes: > * The 396 is new to me. I had borrowed it previously on occasion and had similar occurrence twice. This was a few years back and, if I recall, both occurrences were an hour or more into flight. > * The 430 was recently upgraded from 430 to 430W, but I'm still flying on the 430 antenna. As stated above, had problem before, but it seems MUCH more consistent now. > * I had flight following on one of these occurrences and asked center if there was know problem. Answer was NO and about 3 planes on station reported no problems. > * Both flights above, there was much humidity in the air and I was under a lowish cloud deck. I don't recall conditions on previous events. > * I've tried using 396 plugged into cigarette lighter and running only on battery and it makes no difference. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > > > > > >




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