---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/29/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:01 AM - Icom 210 radio intercom switch (chris Sinfield) 2. 07:29 AM - Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Jeff Page) 3. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (Kelly McMullen) 4. 11:13 AM - Re: Icom 210 radio intercom switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 01:08 PM - Z-11 Drawing with LR3C Controller? (stearman456) 6. 01:39 PM - Re: Icom 210 radio intercom switch (Gordon Parker) 7. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane (rayj) 8. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: splicing wire? (James Robinson) 9. 08:29 PM - Molex Connectors out of production (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 08:44 PM - Re: Icom 210 radio intercom switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 08:50 PM - Re: Z-11 Drawing with LR3C Controller? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: splicing wire? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 09:27 PM - Re: Re: splicing wire? (James Robinson) 14. 09:50 PM - Re: Molex Connectors out of production (Gordon Parker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:43 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch From: "chris Sinfield" Hi I am wiring up my Icom 210 for my little 2 seater plane and plan to use the radios own internal intercom. In the wiring diagram there is a intercom switch, but for the life of me I cannot find what this is used for and if I need to wire it in or not? I though it was all built inwith this radio? Any Ideas out there? Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310464#310464 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:04 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane I will add another data point concerning radios interfering with GPS reception. I recently installed a Garmin 430W in my Cessna 172 (probably doubled its value, but the unit will be removed for installation into the airplane I am building). I worked with an avionics shop that was willing to supervise me doing much of the work as a learning experience - and it was ! The Garmin installation manual cautions against installing the GPS antenna within 4 feet of other antennas. The cabin roof of the Cessna makes that goal impossible to meet. For simplicity, we chose to re-use the same mounting location as the old GPS antenna, which is a foot away from the antenna of the King KX-175B radio. There are a number of tests required in the Garmin installation manual, including transmitting with each radio on the following frequencies for 35 seconds, while watching the satellite reception screen: 121.150, 121.175, 121.200, 121.225, 121.250 131.200, 131.225, 131.250, 131.275, 131.300, 131.325, 131.350 In my case the 131MHz frequencies interfered. Not just slightly, but completely killed reception of all GPS satellites. The strength bars went to zero immediately. The 430W required more than a minute to recover after unkeying the transmitter. I swapped the COM antennas between the 430W and the KX-175B. The 430W produced a cleaner transmission that did not interfere with GPS reception. The transmissions of the KX-175B, with the antenna now 3 feet away from the GPS antenna, only slightly interfered (lost 10-20% of signal strength) and did not prevent reception from even the marginal satellites. So problem simply resolved. Where I fly, I rarely use frequencies in the 131MHz range, so without doing this test I might have happily flown for quite a number of hours, only to be confounded with lack of GPS navigation at some future point. I recommend everyone perform this test, since it is so quite and easy to do. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:14 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane Keep in mind that it is not just transmitting that creates interference. Having the radio simply tuned to a frequency and turned on can also cause the problem. There are also nav frequencies that need to be checked. They are not in the AC, but this site has more detail of documented issues for specific radio models: http://www.scn.org/~bk269/gps.html On 8/29/2010 7:26 AM, Jeff Page wrote: > > I will add another data point concerning radios interfering with GPS > reception. > > I recently installed a Garmin 430W in my Cessna 172 (probably doubled > its value, but the unit will be removed for installation into the > airplane I am building). > I worked with an avionics shop that was willing to supervise me doing > much of the work as a learning experience - and it was ! > > The Garmin installation manual cautions against installing the GPS > antenna within 4 feet of other antennas. The cabin roof of the Cessna > makes that goal impossible to meet. > For simplicity, we chose to re-use the same mounting location as the > old GPS antenna, which is a foot away from the antenna of the King > KX-175B radio. > > There are a number of tests required in the Garmin installation > manual, including transmitting with each radio on the following > frequencies for 35 seconds, while watching the satellite reception > screen: > > 121.150, 121.175, 121.200, 121.225, 121.250 > 131.200, 131.225, 131.250, 131.275, 131.300, 131.325, 131.350 > > In my case the 131MHz frequencies interfered. Not just slightly, but > completely killed reception of all GPS satellites. The strength bars > went to zero immediately. The 430W required more than a minute to > recover after unkeying the transmitter. > > I swapped the COM antennas between the 430W and the KX-175B. The 430W > produced a cleaner transmission that did not interfere with GPS > reception. The transmissions of the KX-175B, with the antenna now 3 > feet away from the GPS antenna, only slightly interfered (lost 10-20% > of signal strength) and did not prevent reception from even the > marginal satellites. So problem simply resolved. > > Where I fly, I rarely use frequencies in the 131MHz range, so without > doing this test I might have happily flown for quite a number of > hours, only to be confounded with lack of GPS navigation at some > future point. > > I recommend everyone perform this test, since it is so quite and easy > to do. > > Jeff Page > Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch At 06:59 AM 8/29/2010, you wrote: > > >Hi >I am wiring up my Icom 210 for my little 2 seater plane and plan to >use the radios own internal intercom. > >In the wiring diagram there is a intercom switch, but for the life >of me I cannot find what this is used for and if I need to wire it >in or not? I though it was all built inwith this radio? I've looked over the operations manual for the A210 and there IS an intercom built in. However, it can be switched off and on from front panel controls. It's not clear to me in my quick trip through the manual what the external switch is for. My best guess is that it might be a way that a "back seater" can turn the intercom off and on. I'd bring a wire out from pin 10 on the radio that's long enough to gain access to the end AFTER installation. Tie it up in the wire bundle and hopefully forget it. If at some time the future it is discovered to be useful, the task of integrating its function into your project will be greatly eased. Perhaps other A210 users on the List can offer more detailed guidance. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:36 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-11 Drawing with LR3C Controller? From: "stearman456" Hi Bob, Just reading the note in Rev 12A about Fig Z-11 and it says that Z-11 was redrawn with the B&C combo regulator/OV/LV controller but in my book it doesn't have it. Is there a revised drawing that I can download somewhere? thanks, Dan warbirds@shaw.ca Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310520#310520 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:30 PM PST US From: Gordon Parker Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch Bob and Chris: I too am trying to use the A 210. I am using a flightcom intercom seperate from the one built in. I understand that the built in on e hasto use a push to talk button. And it is not voice activated. BTW Bob where can I obtain the book you have out. I have been trying to fined out . Thanks: Gordon > kolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 06:59 AM 8/29/2010=2C you wrote: > > > > > >Hi > >I am wiring up my Icom 210 for my little 2 seater plane and plan to > >use the radios own internal intercom. > > > >In the wiring diagram there is a intercom switch=2C but for the life > >of me I cannot find what this is used for and if I need to wire it > >in or not? I though it was all built inwith this radio? > > I've looked over the operations manual for the A210 and > there IS an intercom built in. However=2C it can be switched > off and on from front panel controls. It's not clear to me > in my quick trip through the manual what the external > switch is for. My best guess is that it might be a way > that a "back seater" can turn the intercom off and on. > > I'd bring a wire out from pin 10 on the radio that's > long enough to gain access to the end AFTER installation. > Tie it up in the wire bundle and hopefully forget it. > If at some time the future it is discovered to be > useful=2C the task of integrating its function into > your project will be greatly eased. > > Perhaps other A210 users on the List can offer more > detailed guidance. > > > Bob . . . > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:13 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: re: GPS outage in fiberglass plane Slightly off topic. Does anyone have any info on similar problems occurring on GPS caused by marine radios? Any info would be appreciated. do not archive Thanks, Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 08/29/2010 09:26 AM, Jeff Page wrote: > > I will add another data point concerning radios interfering with GPS > reception. > > I recently installed a Garmin 430W in my Cessna 172 (probably doubled > its value, but the unit will be removed for installation into the > airplane I am building). > I worked with an avionics shop that was willing to supervise me doing > much of the work as a learning experience - and it was ! > > The Garmin installation manual cautions against installing the GPS > antenna within 4 feet of other antennas. The cabin roof of the Cessna > makes that goal impossible to meet. > For simplicity, we chose to re-use the same mounting location as the > old GPS antenna, which is a foot away from the antenna of the King > KX-175B radio. > > There are a number of tests required in the Garmin installation > manual, including transmitting with each radio on the following > frequencies for 35 seconds, while watching the satellite reception > screen: > > 121.150, 121.175, 121.200, 121.225, 121.250 > 131.200, 131.225, 131.250, 131.275, 131.300, 131.325, 131.350 > > In my case the 131MHz frequencies interfered. Not just slightly, but > completely killed reception of all GPS satellites. The strength bars > went to zero immediately. The 430W required more than a minute to > recover after unkeying the transmitter. > > I swapped the COM antennas between the 430W and the KX-175B. The 430W > produced a cleaner transmission that did not interfere with GPS > reception. The transmissions of the KX-175B, with the antenna now 3 > feet away from the GPS antenna, only slightly interfered (lost 10-20% > of signal strength) and did not prevent reception from even the > marginal satellites. So problem simply resolved. > > Where I fly, I rarely use frequencies in the 131MHz range, so without > doing this test I might have happily flown for quite a number of > hours, only to be confounded with lack of GPS navigation at some > future point. > > I recommend everyone perform this test, since it is so quite and easy > to do. > > Jeff Page > Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:09 PM PST US From: James Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: splicing wire? Good Afternoon Bob I spliced the wires as you suggested. I spliced all wires including the shield. When all finished I have good intercom between headsets, the co pilot transmit works good, but the pilot headset has a whine/squeal when transmitting. What should I look for to correct this? Jim James Robinson Glasair lll N79R Spanish Fork UT U77 ________________________________ From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 1:26:30 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: splicing wire? At 01:57 PM 8/28/2010, you wrote: Good afternoon Bob >I have a question on splicing wire. I need to lengthen the wires to my headset >plugs from the intercom. ( NAT intercom). They currently go to plugs in the >center console. I was originally going to run new wires all the way to the >intercom. This is proving to be a major undertaking. Everything is bundled and >nicely tied and very difficult to get to. Can I add a length of wire to the >existing without creating problems? Would there be any considerations I would >need to address? Sure. the big guys do it all the time. They use a product called solder-sleeves. You don't need to get THAT fancy. I've illustrated a poor-man's solder sleeve technique here: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Wire_treatment_3.jpg and a comic book on the technique here: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html If you have some shields to deal with, just bring their pigtails together as if they were individual wires. This technique offers a minimum-bulk methodology for jointing wires and insulating the splice. If practical, you might want to trim the lengths of the existing wires so that the splices don't all bunch up next to each other in the finished bundle. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Connectors out of production Any of you folks who own Icom 200 series transceivers, I was tracking down connectors for a OBAM aircraft brother and note that the part is now or soon to be discontinued. >Comments/Questions: Bob, I'm stumped and I think the answer is >likely a simple one, but I cannot find it. I have an ICOM A200 radio >that I bought used, and had it checked out by an avionics shop about >a year ago. I'm building a Zenith CH 701 and now I cannot find the >Molex 4338-15 connector that is described in the installation >manual. I've search the internet and the only place that even lists >such a part number is in Australia. My guess is this is readily >available at an electronics store, but I don't know what to call it. >Can you help me? The 4338 is a model number. The actual part number you want is 09-50-6155 I'm told this part is obsolete and the manufacturer intends to discontinue the part. There is stock at Newark Electronics. http://tinyurl.com/29wlrrx You'll also need pins sold separately http://tinyurl.com/2arg72m Good luck. You might want to order spares! Went present stocks are gone, there won't be any more. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch At 03:37 PM 8/29/2010, you wrote: >Bob and Chris: I too am trying to use the A 210. I am using a >flightcom intercom seperate from the one built in. I understand >that the built in one has to use a push to talk button. And it is >not voice activated. Funny you should offer this assertion. Here's a clip from the Icom A-210 Manual at http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Radios/Icom_A210/IC-A210_User%27s_Manual.pdf From page 20 Emacs! From page 27 Emacs! They use the words "voice activated" but the switching is suspicious. Provisions for an external intercom PTT suggests that it's not really voice activated but in fact a "hot mic" system that is turned ON by either the front panel control as described above or ON/OFF by external PTT switches wired to pin 10. I'd bet that the built-in feature is indeed a PTT intercom. Bob. . . > >BTW Bob where can I obtain the book you have out. I have been >trying to fined out. Thanks: Gordon You can get the bound book -OR- a .pdf version on CD + bonus Pak of data from our catalog at: https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/AECcatalog.html you can download the .pdf version at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Book/AEC12A_PDF.zip Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-11 Drawing with LR3C Controller? At 03:06 PM 8/29/2010, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > >Just reading the note in Rev 12A about Fig Z-11 and it says that >Z-11 was redrawn with the B&C combo regulator/OV/LV controller but >in my book it doesn't have it. I need to fix that note. Z-11 was intended to be the "poor builder's" elegant solution for an electrical system, hence the $10 regulator. > Is there a revised drawing that I can download somewhere? Z-12 uses the B&C LR series regulators. Just drop the wiring shown for the main alternator on Z-12 into Z-11. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: splicing wire? At 07:54 PM 8/29/2010, you wrote: >Good Afternoon Bob >I spliced the wires as you suggested. I spliced all wires >including the shield. When all finished I have good intercom >between headsets, the co pilot transmit works good, but the pilot >headset has a whine/squeal when transmitting. What should I look >for to correct this? Is this a new condition that cropped up when you extended the wires? One side works but the pilot side doesn't . .. hmmm . . . might be a wiring error of some variety. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:13 PM PST US From: James Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: splicing wire? Yes it occurred after the splicing of the wires. Any suggestions where to look. All the features work, intercom and transmit/receive both pilot and co-pilot. The problem is in the transmit pilot side only. What type of error should I be looking for? Jim PS Your up late tonight James Robinson Glasair lll N79R Spanish Fork UT U77 ________________________________ From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 9:47:59 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: splicing wire? At 07:54 PM 8/29/2010, you wrote: > Good Afternoon Bob > I spliced the wires as you suggested. I spliced all wires including the >shield. When all finished I have good intercom between headsets, the co pilot >transmit works good, but the pilot headset has a whine/squeal when >transmitting. What should I look for to correct this? Is this a new condition that cropped up when you extended the wires? One side works but the pilot side doesn't . .. hmmm . . . might be a wiring error of some variety. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:27 PM PST US From: Gordon Parker Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Molex Connectors out of production Bob: I went thru all of this last week. I spent time on the phone with Da vid Graham@Moles.com. Phone 800-786-6539 ext: 555-2125 . He told me that connector 4338-15 that Icom has in their supplied parts for new transceive r are now obsolete .The Molex terminals (4366-GL) have a new part number an d is 8030304 and is available thru MOUSER ELECTRONICS. I ordered somelast week and was told it would be 5 days before they get any in. There 13 cent s each. Might try ICOM direct in Belview Washington. They usually have some of the se products. Gordon Any of you folks who own Icom 200 series transceivers=2C I was tracking down connectors for a OBAM aircraft brother and note that the part is now or soon to be discontinued. Comments/Questions: Bob=2C I'm stumped and I think the answer is likely a simple one=2C but I cannot find it. I have an ICOM A200 radio that I bought used=2C and had it checked out by an avionics shop about a year ago. I'm building a Zenith CH 701 and now I cannot find the Molex 4338-15 connector that is described in the installation manual. I've search the internet and the only place that even lists such a part number is in Australia. My guess is this is readily available at an electronics store=2C but I don't know what to call it. Can you help me? The 4338 is a model number. The actual part number you want is 09-50-6155 I'm told this part is obsolete and the manufacturer intends to discontinue the part. There is stock at Newark Electronics. http://tinyurl.com/29wlrrx You'll also need pins sold separately http://tinyurl.com/2arg72m Good luck. You might want to order spares! Went present stocks are gone=2C there won't be any more. 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