---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/31/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:47 AM - Re: Splicing small wires (Brian Gowland) 2. 05:22 AM - Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? (Geoff Heap) 3. 05:32 AM - Re: Progressive switch for electric trim (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 05:39 AM - Re: Icom 210 radio intercom switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: Icom 210 radio intercom switch (Kevin Boddicker) 6. 07:52 AM - Re: Icom 210 radio intercom switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 08:27 AM - Re: AeroElectric List access (Speedy11@aol.com) 8. 09:39 AM - Icom A210/A200 owners (Mike Welch) 9. 10:59 AM - Re: Icom A210/A200 owners (Mike Welch) 10. 11:25 AM - Re: Icom A210/A200 owners (n801bh@netzero.com) 11. 11:44 AM - Re: Icom A210/A200 owners (Mike Welch) 12. 01:35 PM - Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? (Geoff Heap) 13. 08:37 PM - removing bendix king kma 24 (joe motis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:57 AM PST US From: "Brian Gowland" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splicing small wires Splicing small wiresTry rolling a small copper/ brass/ali tube under a sharp blade, for perfect results in seconds. Regards Brian Hn700 Menestrel 11 ----- Original Message ----- From: Fergus Kyle To: 1AeroElectricLIST Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:17 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splicing small wires I cannot pretend to be so wise as some on the net, but I do have a small note to make when splicing the #18-on-down size wires, especially when in crowded corners - I seem to specialize in wiring myself into a spiralling corner..... In radio I learned long ago you can't find the size you need to join two wires. I hit upon the model aircraft shops for copper/brass tubing which is nesting in size around these smaller wires. It's a pain to cut the tubing and smooth the ends so that fine wire can enter so I do this in tens at one time when the conditions dictate, either this or reading a good book. For a couple of bucks and a warder file plus small-tooth saw, you can have a pocketful of crimpable lengths just lying there waiting for redemption. The simple crimper slides easily into tight spaces, and we're not welding power cable here. Just a thought. Ferg Europa XS A064 wiring wiring wiring ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ______________________________________________ =0AThis email has b een scanned by Netintelligence =0Ahttp://www.netintelligence.com/e mail =0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:21 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? From: "Geoff Heap" Hi Guys. I know some of you have done this. Which wire on a Garmin 296 is the one that connects to EFIS pin #22 on a Dynon 180? My guess is that it is the DATA OUT 2(violet) in the Power/Data connector cable. This wire is described as to autopilot or NMEA device I have already cut (cannibalized) that cable to get at the power wire so it's already accessible. Thank you.....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310783#310783 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Progressive switch for electric trim At 10:05 PM 8/30/2010, you wrote: Bob, list, I was reading through a thread on Van's Air Force today and it got me thinking about the approaches to elevator trim control. There seemed to be two camps: People who use (on)-off-(on) type switches who have problems with sensitivity, and people who have some kind of high/low motor speed switch, either manually controlled or airspeed controlled with a Vertical Power (or similar) module. >From a usability versus complexity standpoint, I was imagining a progressive-speed switch, implemented as a 5-position switch: (second-up) : fast down trim (first-up) : slow down trim center : trim stop (first-down) : slow up trim (second-down) : fast up trim A quick search has not turned up any toggle switches of this kind, which may be the real problem with this approach. Have you seen this approach elsewhere, or have any part number suggestions? I's aware of no COTS (commercial off the shelf) switch with this characteristic. There have been lever operated, sping loaded to center, wafer switches but those go back a lot of years. I don't think they were a catalog item. I've spent a significant portion of my career working on motor driven trim systems for aircraft, mostly bizjets. I did get to put the first microprocessor controlled trim system on Roy Lopresti's M30 prototype at Mooney. This was a proof of concept controller that adjusted the servo gain scale factor on a servo/anti-servo tab. The goal was to provide a constant stick-force/G response irrespective of IAS. Initial flight tests were encouraging but the M30 program was scrapped for a host of reasons. We've had a number of discussions about trim systems here on the List. A search of the aeroelectric.com website using the words trim and speed will produce a number of hits. But in particular, may I suggest you review the article published at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Trim_System_Failures.pdf The "ideal" trim controller would adjust the motor's speed linearly over the full range of max to minimum depending on the airplane's IAS value. After crafting the trim speed controller for the Lear 55, I wrote and delivered a paper at an SAE convention where I hypothesized a number of possibilities for future designs. Two features of the paper talked about a way to control trim speed from a single processor in a manner that precludes a runaway in spite of worst case software failure. The other was a proposal to adjust motor speed based on the value of pitot pressure (IAS). Obviously, there's a huge difference between a performance of a Lear and an RV. A larger difference exists between the product development budgets for the two aircraft. Setting the "ideal" system aside, what operating characteristics might offer 90 plus percent of everything we'd like the trim system to do. An airplane spends MOST of its flight time in stable flight at max IAS. This configuration suggests a very slow trim rate that allows fine tuning of trim for holding altitude. A small percentage of flight time is spent in approach to landing where IAS is on the order of 90-100 kts and some degree of flaps are deployed. Here the trim speed needs to be faster to make timely adjustments to establish the desired IAS. On the Lears, the high speed trim was 4x faster than low speed trim. I've published a suggested schematic for a two speed trim system for small aircraft at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/Two_Speed_Trim_2.pdf This is modeled after the system flying on 30 series Lears where speed commands come from a switch on the flap system. With flaps full up, low speed is commanded. With flaps extended more than 10 degrees, high speed is commanded. I'm confident that a system crafted after this model will meet design goals for crafting a very utilitarian pitch trim system. The neat thing is that speed selection is automatically controlled by flight configuration. I could get this system qualified on a TC aircraft with a minimum of bureaucratic fuss. The controller should be fitted with screwdriver adjusted trim pots for speed selection. Over a series of flight tests, you can optimize system performance to meet your design goals. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch At 09:11 PM 8/30/2010, you wrote: >Bob, >I have one of these units. It works as voice activated to my >satisfaction. It my have some components that I do not understand, >but voice opens the squelch and squelch closes when silent. Many >menus to filter through, but once set it is a fine unit. THANK YOU! There's no data better than hands-on data. That's what I would have hoped for. I've got some REALLY warm spots in my heart for Icom products that were established back in the days when I was putting repeaters on 1200 foot towers! Do you use the external intercom ptt switch? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch From: Kevin Boddicker No I do not. When the PPT is keyed, BOTH mics are hot. I just tell my passengers to be quiet when I transmit. While flying alone I cancel the intercom all together. Just pushing and holding one button on the face of the unit will cancel the intercom function. Repeat and it is back on. Kevin On Aug 31, 2010, at 7:34 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 09:11 PM 8/30/2010, you wrote: >> Bob, >> I have one of these units. It works as voice activated to my satisfaction. It my have some components that I do not understand, but voice opens the squelch and squelch closes when silent. Many menus to filter through, but once set it is a fine unit. > > THANK YOU! There's no data better than hands-on > data. That's what I would have hoped for. I've got > some REALLY warm spots in my heart for Icom products > that were established back in the days when I was > putting repeaters on 1200 foot towers! > > Do you use the external intercom ptt switch? > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom 210 radio intercom switch At 08:16 AM 8/31/2010, you wrote: > >No I do not. When the PPT is keyed, BOTH mics are hot. I just tell >my passengers to be quiet when I transmit. While flying alone I >cancel the intercom all together. Just pushing and holding one >button on the face of the unit will cancel the intercom function. >Repeat and it is back on. Good info. Bob. . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:15 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric List access Bob, Wondering why you prefer the real-time emails? I've been using the digest version for years and I like the one-a-day email. Of course, getting the postings is delayed a day whereas the real-time ones are received same day. Seems like the real-time notices would tend to fill up the mailbox. Maybe I should switch to real-time. Is there a good reason? Stan Sutterfield I recommend that you check ONLY the real-time and not the digest service. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:27 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Hello List=2C I'm getting very close to hooking up all the components to my instrument panel=2C and I'd sure like some advice regarding my Icom A200.=2C to be put into the 2-place plane I'm building. I have a SoftComm International ATC-2 potable intercom that I got for my plane years ago. I also have a Icom A200 (mobile style). Basically=2C it the sa me a the regular A200=2C it's just that it comes more like a CB radio=3B attched mic via a c oiled cord=2C speaker that pluds into a 3mm plug recepticle=2C hot/grnd leads for power. Anyway=2C back to my question=3B For those guys that have experience wit h the built-in intercom function of the Icom radios=2C would you say that that alone is su fficient (for a 2-place)=2C or is the intercom part "lacking"=2C and in need of a separate dedicated in tercom? Frankly=2C if the concensus is that the Icom is up to the task=2C I'd rat her just go ahead and install a couple of jacks and be done with it. (the intercom part=2C I mean ) So=2C wuddaya think of the Icom intercom?? Thanks=2C Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:28 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Sheesh=2C I should proof-read more. Overlook the typos. Thanks=2C Mike From: mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Hello List=2C I'm getting very close to hooking up all the components to my instrument panel=2C and I'd sure like some advice regarding my Icom A200.=2C to be put into the 2-place plane I'm building. I have a SoftComm International ATC-2 potable intercom that I got for my plane years ago. I also have a Icom A200 (mobile style). Basically=2C it the sa me a the regular A200=2C it's just that it comes more like a CB radio=3B attched mic via a c oiled cord=2C speaker that pluds into a 3mm plug recepticle=2C hot/grnd leads for power. Anyway=2C back to my question=3B For those guys that have experience wit h the built-in intercom function of the Icom radios=2C would you say that that alone is su fficient (for a 2-place)=2C or is the intercom part "lacking"=2C and in need of a separate dedicated in tercom? Frankly=2C if the concensus is that the Icom is up to the task=2C I'd rat her just go ahead and install a couple of jacks and be done with it. (the intercom part=2C I mean ) So=2C wuddaya think of the Icom intercom?? Thanks=2C Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:40 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Not related to the intercom but.... I put a A-200 in my experimental and can say it is a great unit. Clear, long range and easy to use. The one BIG drawback to it was the display is not easy to read unless I turn on my nav lights, which I wired to the internal lighting on the A-2 00, thinking I would only need radio lighting on when I needed nav light s. WRONG.... The display is too dim for me to see in normal conditions, I don't want to cut into my harness I made to add a splice so I removed the radio out of the can and looked inside to see if I could jumper the lights that way.. Not a easy deal. I would suggest you wire the internal radio light to stay on all the tim e. Just my opinion. do not archive. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Welch Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Hello List, I'm getting very close to hooking up all the components to my instrume nt panel, and I'd sure like some advice regarding my Icom A200., to be put into th e 2-place plane I'm building. I have a SoftComm International ATC-2 potable intercom that I got for my plane years ago. I also have a Icom A200 (mobile style). Basically, it the s ame a the regular A200, it's just that it comes more like a CB radio; attched mic via a co iled cord, speaker that pluds into a 3mm plug recepticle, hot/grnd leads for power. Anyway, back to my question; For those guys that have experience with the built-in intercom function of the Icom radios, would you say that that alone is s ufficient (for a 2-place), or is the intercom part "lacking", and in need of a separate dedicated i ntercom? Frankly, if the concensus is that the Icom is up to the task, I'd rath er just go ahead and install a couple of jacks and be done with it. (the intercom part, I mea n) So, wuddaya think of the Icom intercom?? Thanks, Mike Welch ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ============ ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.netzero.net/freeemail?refcd=NZTAGOUT1FREM0210 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:29 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Thanks Ben=2C I'll be sure to do that. Regarding the value of using the Icom's intercom=2C anybody? Anybody? ? Thanks=2C Mike From: n801bh@netzero.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Not related to the intercom but.... I put a A-200 in my experimental and can say it is a great unit. Clear=2C l ong range and easy to use. The one BIG drawback to it was the display is not easy to read unless I tur n on my nav lights=2C which I wired to the internal lighting on the A-200 =2C thinking I would only need radio lighting on when I needed nav lights. WRONG.... The display is too dim for me to see in normal conditions=2C I d on't want to cut into my harness I made to add a splice so I removed the ra dio out of the can and looked inside to see if I could jumper the lights th at way.. Not a easy deal. I would suggest you wire the internal radio light to stay on all the time. Just my opinion. do not archive. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Welch Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A210/A200 owners Hello List=2C I'm getting very close to hooking up all the components to my instrument panel=2C and I'd sure like some advice regarding my Icom A200.=2C to be put into the 2-place plane I'm building. I have a SoftComm International ATC-2 potable intercom that I got for my plane years ago. I also have a Icom A200 (mobile style). Basically=2C it the sa me a the regular A200=2C it's just that it comes more like a CB radio=3B attched mic via a c oiled cord=2C speaker that pluds into a 3mm plug recepticle=2C hot/grnd leads for power. Anyway=2C back to my question=3B For those guys that have experience wit h the built-in intercom function of the Icom radios=2C would you say that that alone is su fficient (for a 2-place)=2C or is the intercom part "lacking"=2C and in need of a separate dedicated in tercom? Frankly=2C if the concensus is that the Icom is up to the task=2C I'd rat her just go ahead and install a couple of jacks and be done with it. (the intercom part=2C I mean ) So=2C wuddaya think of the Icom intercom?? Thanks=2C Mike Welch c-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tronics.com www.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:01 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? From: "Geoff Heap" Never mind. My guess was right. Link below http://www.xenonowners.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:connecting-garmin-gps-to-dynon-efis&catid=10:avionics&Itemid=11 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310846#310846 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:05 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: removing bendix king kma 24 From: joe motis I have a bendix king kma 24 that popped the 3 amp cb labeled spkr.The installation is about 2 years old and was done by a shop. I would like to remove the KMA 24 to bench test it and would like to know how to do it . Thanks Joe Motis Cherokee 180 CH 750 from prints. 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