Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - dim able strip LED lighting (chris Sinfield)
2. 06:01 AM - Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator (Gordon Smith)
3. 07:01 AM - Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Mike Welch)
4. 08:52 AM - Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Vern Little)
5. 09:08 AM - Re: dim able strip LED lighting (RV7ASask)
6. 09:45 AM - Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Tim Andres)
7. 12:52 PM - Re: Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Lynn Riggs)
9. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Gerry van Dyk)
10. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Mike Welch)
11. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Neal George)
12. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Jared Yates)
13. 07:37 PM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Lynn Riggs)
14. 07:50 PM - Re: Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator (Richard Girard)
15. 08:08 PM - Re: dim able strip LED lighting (RV7ASask)
Message 1
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| Subject: | dim able strip LED lighting |
Hi all
I was going to use the new Dim-able LED strip lighting for under the Inst combing
for my NVFR aircraft
they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
Anyone used these yet?? do the dimmers come with the strip LED's or do you have
to buy them separately.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311516#311516
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| Subject: | Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator |
'lectric Bob wrote:
"Your main alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which you could
probably boost to continuous duty with some well considered cooling)."
How is this to be accomplished? Cooling air to the Rec/Reg or to the Alt
coils mounted to the back of the engine or both?
Gordon Smith
Message 3
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| Subject: | dim able strip LED lighting |
> they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
> Chris
Chris=2C
Irrespective of the different colors of LEDs=2C you have to keep in mind
specifically what you are using the LED for.
Blue panel LEDs may look "cool" but they are NOT appropriate for use
as a night lighting. Blue light is a shorter wavelength than red=2C and th
is
aspect does not work as well for rapidly adjusting light/dark conditions
as red.
Red light has a longer wavelength than blue=2C and this phenomenon allows
the human eye to adjust quicker from a dark environment to a red lit
environment than blue lighting.
This is the reason aircraft cockpit lighting is red. When you look outsi
de at
night while flying=2C and then look back inside at the instruments=2C the r
ed lit
instruments don't mess up your vision (light receptors) as much as any othe
r
color wavelength will.
Mike Welch
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Here's an interesting article
http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/.
In my cockpit, I only use low-level white dimmable lighting for the
express purpose of reading charts at night. Charts require white light
in order to see all of the colors. When not reading charts, all of the
modern instruments have their own back-lights, which are kept dim.
Looks like red flood lighting is useful for general night lighting.
Vern
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: dim able strip LED lighting
> they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
> Chris
Chris,
Irrespective of the different colors of LEDs, you have to keep in mind
specifically what you are using the LED for.
Blue panel LEDs may look "cool" but they are NOT appropriate for use
as a night lighting. Blue light is a shorter wavelength than red, and
this
aspect does not work as well for rapidly adjusting light/dark conditions
as red.
Red light has a longer wavelength than blue, and this phenomenon
allows
the human eye to adjust quicker from a dark environment to a red lit
environment than blue lighting.
This is the reason aircraft cockpit lighting is red. When you look
outside at
night while flying, and then look back inside at the instruments, the
red lit
instruments don't mess up your vision (light receptors) as much as any
other
color wavelength will.
Mike Welch
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
I have installed a strip of white dimable LEDs above my switches. They work great!
The strip happens to be 3/8 in wide and fit perfectly into an aluminum channel
integrated at the bottom of the panel. I would agree with Vern. Stick with
white. The dimmer is available from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/pwmDimmer.php
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311539#311539
Message 6
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| Subject: | dim able strip LED lighting |
According Stein-air's web site Blue is now the standard color on commercial
and military aircraft..FWIW
Tim Andres
<mailto:rnbraud@yahoo.com>
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Welch
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: dim able strip LED lighting
> they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
> Chris
Chris,
Irrespective of the different colors of LEDs, you have to keep in mind
specifically what you are using the LED for.
Blue panel LEDs may look "cool" but they are NOT appropriate for use
as a night lighting. Blue light is a shorter wavelength than red, and this
aspect does not work as well for rapidly adjusting light/dark conditions
as red.
Red light has a longer wavelength than blue, and this phenomenon allows
the human eye to adjust quicker from a dark environment to a red lit
environment than blue lighting.
This is the reason aircraft cockpit lighting is red. When you look
outside at
night while flying, and then look back inside at the instruments, the red
lit
instruments don't mess up your vision (light receptors) as much as any other
color wavelength will.
Mike Welch
23:35:00
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator |
At 07:57 AM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
><gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com>
>
>'lectric Bob wrote:
>
>"Your main alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which you could
>probably boost to continuous duty with some well considered cooling)."
>
>How is this to be accomplished? Cooling air to the Rec/Reg or to the Alt
>coils mounted to the back of the engine or both?
Perhaps both. But the primary concern is for
alternator windings. You can always go to a more
robust rectifier/regulator (John Deere?).
It would be a very interesting and useful experiment
to do some flight testing on temperature rise for
this alternator on the as-installed engine. We don't
know what limits the ratings given by Jab. Wire
temp limits? Semiconductors in R/R?
If the windings are similarly disposed about a
magnet bearing flywheel like the Rotax 912, then
cooling the coils would not be easy.
You could thermocouple the windings and do some
full load testing. I can't imagine anyone winding
the aircraft alternator with wire insulated at
less than Class H temperatures (180C max hot spot).
If we were sure that the wires were not being
abused, the beefing up the R/R might produce a
much more robust system. It's doubtful that
Jab will share the information even if they
know it.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV7ASask
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:06 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
I have installed a strip of white dimable LEDs above my switches. They work
great! The strip happens to be 3/8 in wide and fit perfectly into an
aluminum channel integrated at the bottom of the panel. I would agree with
Vern. Stick with white. The dimmer is available from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/pwmDimmer.php
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311539#311539
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
when looking at their charts, the reason being red light doesn't cause the
eye's iris to close, which kills dark adapted vision. When observing
objects through larger telescopes one can occasionally pick up a blue-green
color in subjects like the Ring Nebula (M57)the reason being the color
receptors in the retina pick up the middle of the visible spectrum (520
nanometer wavelength)at the lowest light levels. I have a suspicion that
this study determined that blue-green is the easiest to see, which is
different than the best color for preserving night vision.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/astro-course-day-5/
I would suggest doing some research into WWII night fighters. For one, the
P-61 Black Widow used red cockpit lighting. Red allows you to look at the
instruments, then look out the window without having to wait for your eyes
to re-adapt to the darkness.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Riggs
Sent: September 6, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
> That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
> when looking at their charts=2C the reason being red light doesn't cause
the
> eye's iris to close=2C which kills dark adapted vision.
> Red allows you to look at the
> instruments=2C then look out the window without having to wait for your e
yes
> to re-adapt to the darkness.
>
> Gerry
Gerry=2C
This tendency of the red light not affecting the iris' closing=2C was wha
t I getting at.
You offered more detail than me=2C and you're correct. I think that this i
s also why darkrooms
for developing film are lit with red lights.
My Cessna(s) had red cockpit lighting. Like I said initially=2C you have
to determine the
primary purpose of the LED lighting. If you want to see things inside the
cockpit=2C and
not screw up your night vision=2C use red. If you want to be able to see s
omething very
well in the dark=2C like an instrument=2C use blue/green lighting (and you
can turn down the
brightness a lot).
Mike Welch
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Ummm. No.
Darkroom lamps are red because black & white photo paper will tolerate low
levels of red light - film will not tolerate ANY light. I'll suggest that
red light in the cockpit descended from the photo world, where folks had
been working in very low light levels for many decades before there were
lights in airplanes.
Working in a darkroom will give you a completely different perspective on
the red-light/night-blind transition. We go from low-intensity red ambient
to low intensity white (enlarger lamp on to set-up, crop the print, then
starring into the lamp with a mirror to focus the lens) to room light and
back to low-intensity red in a matter of seconds. Given that experience,
I've never given much credence to the night-vision and red-light argument.
Unless I'm slapped right in the face with a LOT of light that dazzles the
retinas (close, exceptionally bright landing lights?), I find I'm very
tolerant of cockpit light levels, and the transition from inside reading
charts and gauges to outside looking at stars and horizons is uneventful.
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG (all the loose ends)
CherokeeJet N9586J
===============
I think that this is also why darkrooms for developing film are lit with red
lights.
Mike Welch
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
This is an interesting dimmer. Does it have the noise problems that Bob was
writing about?
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:06 PM, RV7ASask <rv7alamb@sasktel.net> wrote:
>
> I have installed a strip of white dimable LEDs above my switches. They work
> great! The strip happens to be 3/8 in wide and fit perfectly into an
> aluminum channel integrated at the bottom of the panel. I would agree with
> Vern. Stick with white. The dimmer is available from Spruce.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/pwmDimmer.php
>
> David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311539#311539
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
I have flown with both, I am a retired Army pilot, and can tell you that the
blue-green lighting has less of an impact on night vision than red and is
easier to read charts with. At lease the blue-green the Army used.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry van
Dyk
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
<gerry.vandyk@shaw.ca>
That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
when looking at their charts, the reason being red light doesn't cause the
eye's iris to close, which kills dark adapted vision. When observing
objects through larger telescopes one can occasionally pick up a blue-green
color in subjects like the Ring Nebula (M57)the reason being the color
receptors in the retina pick up the middle of the visible spectrum (520
nanometer wavelength)at the lowest light levels. I have a suspicion that
this study determined that blue-green is the easiest to see, which is
different than the best color for preserving night vision.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/astro-course-day-5/
I would suggest doing some research into WWII night fighters. For one, the
P-61 Black Widow used red cockpit lighting. Red allows you to look at the
instruments, then look out the window without having to wait for your eyes
to re-adapt to the darkness.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Riggs
Sent: September 6, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator |
Bob, all, mention is made of the John Deere rectifier/regulator as a
substitute for the Jabiru unit, however, as I recall, the JD unit is rather
pricey, too. Has anyone investigated the Harley Davidson rec/reg? Can be had
for at least two output levels and they're relatively inexpensive at $35 to
$50. Just a thought.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 07:57 AM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>> gordonrsmith921@yahoo.com>
>>
>> 'lectric Bob wrote:
>>
>> "Your main alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which you could
>> probably boost to continuous duty with some well considered cooling)."
>>
>> How is this to be accomplished? Cooling air to the Rec/Reg or to the Alt
>> coils mounted to the back of the engine or both?
>>
>
> Perhaps both. But the primary concern is for
> alternator windings. You can always go to a more
> robust rectifier/regulator (John Deere?).
>
> It would be a very interesting and useful experiment
> to do some flight testing on temperature rise for
> this alternator on the as-installed engine. We don't
> know what limits the ratings given by Jab. Wire
> temp limits? Semiconductors in R/R?
>
> If the windings are similarly disposed about a
> magnet bearing flywheel like the Rotax 912, then
> cooling the coils would not be easy.
>
> You could thermocouple the windings and do some
> full load testing. I can't imagine anyone winding
> the aircraft alternator with wire insulated at
> less than Class H temperatures (180C max hot spot).
>
> If we were sure that the wires were not being
> abused, the beefing up the R/R might produce a
> much more robust system. It's doubtful that
> Jab will share the information even if they
> know it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
>>This is an interesting dimmer. Does it have the noise problems that Bob was writing
about?
I am just finishing installing the radios so I can't tell you about noise problems
at this time. More to follow.
Weighing in on the color of the light. I said earlier 'Stick with White.' I think
both Mr Boeing and Mr Airbus have opted for white in the cockpit and I think
they got it right.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311626#311626
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