AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 09/14/10


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:11 AM - Re: Airworthiness Cert Received (James Kilford)
     2. 02:13 AM - Re: Bad Fuseblock? (John Ciolino)
     3. 07:01 AM - Re: Mouser Packaging (racerjerry)
     4. 09:46 AM - Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? (messydeer)
     5. 10:44 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? ()
     6. 11:15 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? (Jay Hyde)
     7. 12:24 PM - Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? (messydeer)
     8. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? ()
     9. 06:40 PM - Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? (messydeer)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:11:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Cert Received
    From: James Kilford <james@etravel.org>
    Good luck Brian. Here's wishing you many happy hours in the air. James Do not archive On 14 September 2010 00:23, <ruruny@aol.com> wrote: > To my friends on all the Matronics lists that have helped me in many ways > over the years. > Some of you I have met in person,so many that I have never met but have > been with me > through this project since 2002. > I just want to say thank you for the encouragement, help, soundadvice, > information, photos, drawings, parts, ideas, techniques, web sites, lessons > learned, stories, debates, Scotchbrite advice,humor and especially the > friendships. > Many of you don't even know how much you've helped, but your contribution > and presence on the lists > have been a tremendous help. > Yesterday, I had my inspection completed and received my airworthiness > certificate. I'm surrounded by > many experienced pilots at Spadaro Airport in Long Island, NY to help me > through the next phase of this > adventure/dream/crazy idea. Thanks Matt Dralle for making it all happen > here. > I especially want to thank these people from the lists. > > Zenith-list- Zenith601 list- Zenith701801 list > > Robert Pelland, Geoff Heap, George Race, Johann G(Iceland), Jon Croke,Chuck > Deiterich, John Marzulli, Zed Smith, Larry Martin, Ben Haas, Gary Liming, > Tommy Walker, Larrt McFarland, Bud Spudis, Keith Ashcraft, Bill Naumuk, Ben > Rambler, Max Johnson, Ken Szewc, Gary Gower, David Downey, Mike Brown, Frank > Hinde, Scott Laughlin, Michel Therrien, Mark Townsend, Jeff Davidson, Jay > Bannister, Bill Steer, Craig Payne. > > Kitfox-List > > Noel Loveys > > RotaxEngines-List > > Roger Lee > Thom Riddle > Gilles Thesee > Ron Parigoris > > Aeroelectric-List > > Bob Nuckolls > Jeff Dalton > Vern Little > > > Brian K Unruh > Long Island, NY > http://www.701builder.com > >


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:13:20 AM PST US
    From: "John Ciolino" <johnciolino@comcast.net>
    Subject: Bad Fuseblock?
    I had the same problem with a hot connection to my strobe switch. Although the fast-on connector felt tight on the tab when I pulled it, at the advice of a knowledgeable friend, I crimped the ears of the tab down so it was even tighter on the tab. It solved the problem. My next step, if that didn't work, was to re crimp the connector onto the wire. John Ciolino RV-8 N894Y From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:32 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bad Fuseblock? Last week while flying my Lancair Legacy, one of my two "glass cockpit" screens went dark. The two screens are redundant, so continuing the flight was no problem. When I landed and back in the hangar, I replaced the fuse, hoping for the cheap and easy fix. Surprisingly, it seemed to fix the problem. Although the fuse I removed still looked good, the screen powered up normally with the new fuse. However, after about five minutes, I happened to touch the joint where the power wire connects to the fuse block and it was almost too hot to touch. I figured I had a bad crimp on the Fast-On connector that attaches to the tab on the fuse block. I cut it off and tested it with my VOM. But I couldn't find any problem with it. I soldered a new piece of wire to replace the part I cut off and crimped a new Fast-On connector. I guessed that the fuse for some reason hadn't formed a gas-tight connection and removed and replaced it a number of times to burnish off the corrosion. I replaced the fuse and it now worked perfectly. The fuse block, the ATO fuse, and the Fast-On connector were all name brand. The connector was Amp PIDG. There was no heat damage visible on the connector, which looked perfectly good. And tested perfectly good. The screen takes 2.0 amps at 14 volts and is fused at 5 amps. I have 350 hours and 3.5 years flying time on the airplane. Anybody have a better hypotheses than the "internal corrosion between the tabs of the fuse and the fuse holder?" The fuse block is under the glareshield and protected from the elements. Thanks, Dennis


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:01:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Mouser Packaging
    From: "racerjerry" <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > At 03:48 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote: > > > > > > > In January 2008, I ordered several edge card connectors as well as > > two 4 foot lengths and one 8 foot of shrink tubing from > > Newark. Guess what? The order was shipped in 4 boxes; a separate > > box for each length of shrink tubing. I was charged $25.51 shipping > > for a $19.43 order (total $44.94). > > > > > > Did you talk to them about it and if so, what > did they do for you? > > > Bob . . . After wasting a lot my time arguing with their customer service dept. in several e-mails, I made a phone call, and they offered me a $10 credit. I had originally asked for a REFUND of $15 (not a credit). As is usual, in these cases, the reality is that if you value your time (and frustration) at all, you may as well forget it and count it as "tuition." The likelihood that I will return to Newark and use that credit is NIL. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312404#312404


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:46:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
    From: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
    Hi! I have a SS firewall with a brass grounding tab forest bolted to it FWF. To this fwl ground bolt I have connected a fat battery negative lead of 6" and a fat 24" engine block ground going to the far end of my starter case bolt. The fat wires are #4 copper stranded welding cable. A couple inches away from the firewall ground I have an MGL RDAC, where all the engine instrument positive leads connect. The RDAC has a single ground wire that will be connected to the engine block ground. So far, so good. But I also have a Stewart Warner fuel pressure sender that is mounted to the firewall with an aluminum bracket. The SW sender is designed to be grounded through case or threads threads. In my installation this would ground it to the firewall. MGL says to also run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block ground. I believe people have had problems with senders that are grounded to the firewall instead of the engine block. It's unclear to me if any of the engine block grounded senders were also grounded to the firewall, which is my situation. Wouldn't this create a ground loop problem? Seems I'd have three options. One, run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block and hope for the best. Two, do not connect this sender ground wire to the block. Three, electrically isolate the sender from the firewall. This last option could be done by replacing the 2x2x1.5 090 aluminum bracket with one made from non-conductive material. Another way might be to mount the sender to the engine mount tubes, using rubber to insulate the clamps. The SW sender is an 82504, 15 psi labeled 240 ohms. 0 psi limits are 229.0-242.5 and full rating 27-43 ohms. My engine is a Jab 3300 using the mechanical pump along with a Facet pump for backup. Pressures should be in the 1-5 psi range. Thanks for your help :-) -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312426#312426 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_pressure_sender_mounted_181.jpg


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:44:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Dan, I just went through this with a VDO sender. OK, so senders are not high voltage and the forest is already grounded to the engine block right? The test that tipped me off was to check the ohms value between the sender contact and ground. That tells you a couple of things, 1. The sender is working or at least returning a signal (mine did nothing which gave away the fact that it was bad. Dynon tells me they almost never fail, so I guess I should play the lottery). If the engine ground is significantly better, your ohms value will likely increase. If MGL is worth their salt, they will know the appropriate ohms reading you should receive in the above test. You'll need a 50 ohm resistor to put between the sender and the positive lead on your tester. Touch the ground side of the tester first to the forest, then to the engine block. Record the readings. I'm sure they're chatty about connecting the sender to the block as to share a common ground with the RDAC. That's pretty common among vendors - CYA. I've no idea why their instrument box has to go directly to engine ground while the rest of the universe connects their stuff to firewall grounds. Oh well. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:42 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? <messydeer@yahoo.com> Hi! I have a SS firewall with a brass grounding tab forest bolted to it FWF. To this fwl ground bolt I have connected a fat battery negative lead of 6" and a fat 24" engine block ground going to the far end of my starter case bolt. The fat wires are #4 copper stranded welding cable. A couple inches away from the firewall ground I have an MGL RDAC, where all the engine instrument positive leads connect. The RDAC has a single ground wire that will be connected to the engine block ground. So far, so good. But I also have a Stewart Warner fuel pressure sender that is mounted to the firewall with an aluminum bracket. The SW sender is designed to be grounded through case or threads threads. In my installation this would ground it to the firewall. MGL says to also run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block ground. I believe people have had problems with senders that are grounded to the firewall instead of the engine block. It's unclear to me if any of the engine block grounded senders were also grounded to the firewall, which is my situation. Wouldn't this create a ground loop problem? Seems I'd have three options. One, run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block and hope for the best. Two, do not connect this sender ground wire to the block. Three, electrically isolate the sender from the firewall. This last option could be done by replacing the 2x2x1.5 090 aluminum bracket with one made from non-conductive material. Another way might be to mount the sender to the engine mount tubes, using rubber to insulate the clamps. The SW sender is an 82504, 15 psi labeled 240 ohms. 0 psi limits are 229.0-242.5 and full rating 27-43 ohms. My engine is a Jab 3300 using the mechanical pump along with a Facet pump for backup. Pressures should be in the 1-5 psi range. Thanks for your help :-) -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312426#312426 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_pressure_sender_mounted_181.jpg


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:15:19 AM PST US
    From: "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com>
    Subject: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
    Hi there Dan, I don't think that it will be a problem; I did something similar with the Tundra that I built and so far there have not been any noise issues (which would be indicative of a ground loop problem). I used the firewall as a big negative terminal, and also had dedicated 'tab forests' in the cabin to ground all the instruments. The trick is to have a good connection between the firewall and the engine as well- a thick wire or two that will provide a good solid low impedance path. I used 2 separate connections made up from braided wire from the firewall to the engine block. The negative of the engine battery was then also grounded to the firewall and the second battery (at the back of the aircraft) was grounded to a nearby rib. You need this in any case to carry your cranking current... I have also used MGl equipment and had the RDAC firewall forward; all the instrument values came through without any problems. A small plug for these guys- they have been fantastic in terms of service; whenever I have a fault on one of their instruments (occasionally with their very early line of instruments) they have been very quick with the repair; I'll send the instrument to them on a Monday, say, and get it back on the Thursday-normally repaired for free. Of course I am located in South Africa, where they are based, but I have been impressed with the turnaround time. I also had a problem in that the ECU for the engine that is being used (a Subaru prepared by the now defunct Crossflow) processed many of the instrument readings and then made them available via a bus. MGL developed an interface for this, free of charge, using their ICAN attachment, and I can now display all the values that are processed by the ECU on the MGL Odyssey. If anyone here has had issues with the Crossflow Subaru engines, have a look at my blog to see what was done with the problems that I encountered (www.rawhyde.wordpress.com) Jay -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: 14 September 2010 06:42 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? Hi! I have a SS firewall with a brass grounding tab forest bolted to it FWF. To this fwl ground bolt I have connected a fat battery negative lead of 6" and a fat 24" engine block ground going to the far end of my starter case bolt. The fat wires are #4 copper stranded welding cable. A couple inches away from the firewall ground I have an MGL RDAC, where all the engine instrument positive leads connect. The RDAC has a single ground wire that will be connected to the engine block ground. So far, so good. But I also have a Stewart Warner fuel pressure sender that is mounted to the firewall with an aluminum bracket. The SW sender is designed to be grounded through case or threads threads. In my installation this would ground it to the firewall. MGL says to also run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block ground. I believe people have had problems with senders that are grounded to the firewall instead of the engine block. It's unclear to me if any of the engine block grounded senders were also grounded to the firewall, which is my situation. Wouldn't this create a ground loop problem? Seems I'd have three options. One, run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block and hope for the best. Two, do not connect this sender ground wire to the block. Three, electrically isolate the sender from the firewall. This last option could be done by replacing the 2x2x1.5 090 aluminum bracket with one made from non-conductive material. Another way might be to mount the sender to the engine mount tubes, using rubber to insulate the clamps. The SW sender is an 82504, 15 psi labeled 240 ohms. 0 psi limits are 229.0-242.5 and full rating 27-43 ohms. My engine is a Jab 3300 using the mechanical pump along with a Facet pump for backup. Pressures should be in the 1-5 psi range. Thanks for your help :-) -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312426#312426 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_pressure_sender_mounted_181.jpg


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:24:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
    From: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
    Thanks, guys :-) I didn't quite understand why the 50 ohm load between the sender pos and probe. Is this to mimic a load created by a fuel pressure? I did check some ohm readings with my Fluke 83. Across the sender itself is 240.0 ohms, just what they said it should be. If I assume the engine block as ground, then the ground path would be either through the firewall to the firewall ground plate and through the fat cable to the engine block, or it would go through the 20awg wire ground attached between the sender and engine block. So I measured 0.1 ohm for both paths. Could this mean there would be less of a ground loop problem than, for example, if one of the paths was 0.1 and the other 0.4? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312442#312442


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:46:06 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Dan, 1. Yes, the resistor mimics activity from the fuel sensor. If the sender were bad it would not produce any reading. 2. Don't lose sleep searching for ground loops (unless the noise is rather obvious) for something as brainless as a fuel pressure sensor. If you are getting faulty readings, that's one thing, but if it works as advertised you are not affecting the term life of the unit. As a rule of thumb follow the directions and connect it to the same ground source as the other related products. If they are all 2 ohms difference you'll never see/hear the variance in the equipment (unless of course it's manifested as interference in combination with other resistive building grounds). 3. The best ground has no resistance, Rg = .01 is best. Nothing is perfect, lower is good. 4. I'm no electronics guru but I've worked on enough junk to realize a good ground buys more steak than a good power lead. Spend the time to build good grounds into your system, you won't regret. Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 3:20 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? <messydeer@yahoo.com> Thanks, guys :-) I didn't quite understand why the 50 ohm load between the sender pos and probe. Is this to mimic a load created by a fuel pressure? I did check some ohm readings with my Fluke 83. Across the sender itself is 240.0 ohms, just what they said it should be. If I assume the engine block as ground, then the ground path would be either through the firewall to the firewall ground plate and through the fat cable to the engine block, or it would go through the 20awg wire ground attached between the sender and engine block. So I measured 0.1 ohm for both paths. Could this mean there would be less of a ground loop problem than, for example, if one of the paths was 0.1 and the other 0.4? -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312442#312442


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:40:40 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
    From: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
    K, Glen. The primary purpose of my fuel pressure sender is to tell me that my boost and mechanical pumps work. They're plumbed in series. I've never started an airplane engine, but I believe on startup, I'd turn the boos pump on. I should see a rapid rise to around 3 psi. I think I'd turn the pump off momentarily after startup to check that the mechanical is working, then back on again until altitude is reached. I don't think it would have to be accurate within 1 psi, as long as the relative changes could be seen. I've heard from only a few people, but nobody has said they've had any problem with ground loops in senders wired similar to mine. Unless I hear differently, I'll mount mine as planned. If it turns out to be a problem and requires an insulated mount, I've found a place on the firewall I could stick a fiberglass bracket without much problem. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312469#312469




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --