---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/16/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Advice requested. (user9253) 2. 08:06 AM - Re: Bad Fuseblock? (Dennis Johnson) 3. 08:20 AM - Re: Single shunt for two alternators? (jonlaury) 4. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Mouser Packaging (Stein Bruch) 5. 09:10 AM - Re: Single shunt for two alternators? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:21 AM - Re: Single shunt for two alternators? (user9253) 7. 09:59 AM - Re: Mouser Packaging (user9253) 8. 01:58 PM - Ground Question (MLWynn@aol.com) 9. 02:11 PM - Re: Bad Fuseblock? (Greg Green) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:38 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Advice requested. From: "user9253" Some devices will definitely have their lives shortened by excessive voltage. Let's hope the high voltage does not cause expensive devices to fail prematurely. There is nothing that you can do about the past. The important issue is how to prevent a future high voltage event. What good is the alternate voltage source if it can not be used without damaging the electrical system? The Aux voltage regulator must not be doing its job. Either it is faulty or else it is seeing a low voltage due to high resistance in the voltage-sense circuit or ground connection. Also, consider installing over voltage protection. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312601#312601 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:37 AM PST US From: "Dennis Johnson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bad Fuseblock? In reply to my post about a possibly bad fuse block, John replied, "I had the same problem with a hot connection to my strobe switch. Although the fast-on connector felt tight on the tab when I pulled it, at the advice of a knowledgeable friend, I crimped the ears of the tab down so it was even tighter on the tab. It solved the problem. My next step, if that didn't work, was to re crimp the connector onto the wire. John Ciolino" Thanks, John, I hadn't thought about the ears of the tab on the Fast-On connector opening up. I still have the connector and I'll measure the gap. It was am AMP PIDG connector, so I might be able to get the correct gap from their website. If nothing else, I have a box of unused ones I can compare it to. Thanks, Dennis ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:32 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Single shunt for two alternators? From: "jonlaury" > AFS recommends mounting the hall effect transducer on the cabin side of the firewall and that means bringing the B-lead of one alternator through the firewal Hi Roy, FWIW, I'm also using an AFS 4500 in my Glasair and have a two alternator set up. When I inquired at AFS about the HE sensor location, Rob told me that people were mounting them in the engine compartment to avoid having the B leads come into the cabin. I was shopping for other HE sensors at the time because the AFS one wouldn't accomodate my two #4 AWG B leads. Two other brands, Tamura and LEM both had the same operating temp limitation of 80 deg C (176 F). Above that temp the accuracy falls off, which to my mind is not a big deal because it still tells me what I want to know, i.e. that my alternator of choice is/isn't producing power. After checking with AFS re the non-OEM HE sensor and getting back a detailed testing protocol to see if it would work, I decided to use AFS' HE sensor (on its own tidy little PCB w/capacitors and 5' tefzel pigtail) and downsize my B leads to fit in its hole, rather than risk frying my EFIS by rolling my own HE sensor. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312634#312634 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:02 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mouser Packaging Hi Joe, I know you are a customer of mine, so let me start out by thanking you...but also let me say that to be honest, Mouser isn't trying purposely to treat you poorly (at least I don't think). While we are only a fraction of the size of that company (and we use them regularly), I can assure you they are better than many. Perhaps you're falling through the cracks there and that's not good, but also realize that like 'lectric Bob said, that represents only a smidgen of a fraction of their total customers. Truth be told, no matter what they do (and us as well many times) you will never be able to satisfy everyone. Using the heatshrink as an example, the day we decide to "coil" it up for everyone I can guarantee you that I'd get a call yelling about kinking up the tubing and conversely some people want it all coiled up....it's sort of a no win situation. Regarding shipping, it's near to impossible for either a computer or a person like us to exactly know shipping to 100% at the time of the order. FedEx & UPS's rate tables are living things that don't remain static all the time. Sometimes when you have it delivered to different addresses, there are unexpected surcharges, duties, taxes, etc.. What I'm trying to say is that it's incredibly many times more complicated to do this than the average person may think. While I'm not defending Mouser entirely, I will say that we spend many thousands of $$'s with Mouser, Newark, Digikey, Allied, Mcmaster, etc.. and I've had about every "issue" that you can imagine. That being said, now that I run a business that is microcosm of those companies I have become infinitely more patient because I now understand the problems with computers, couriers, shipping people, packaging, etc.. I don't have much more to add than to just say that things are not always what they seem. I do agree that they should try harder to get your situation resolved, we try to resolve such issues "immediately" without hesitation or delay. My 2 cents as usual. Cheers, Stein -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mouser Packaging It has been over a week since Milly at Mouser promised to refund $10 to my credit card. No refund has been posted to my account yet. When I placed an order, it only took 2 days to deduct money from my credit card account. It seems that they are much quicker when taking money than returning it, (if they do). We all make mistakes. When a company makes a mistake, they should acknowledge it and correct the situation. Ignoring emails is not very good for customer relations. Why provide a customer service email address, but not reply to emails? When a customer purchases merchandise, they want to know exactly what they are getting and how much it costs. I do not like doing business with companies that will not reveal actual shipping costs before finalizing the order. One way to protect oneself is to enter a statement in the remarks section such as, "Cancel order if shipping exceeds $XX.xx amount." Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312575#312575 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:21 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Single shunt for two alternators? At 01:40 PM 9/15/2010, you wrote: Bob and Gang, I'm building an RV-7A using with an Advanced Flight System (AFS) Advanced Deck 4500s. The 4500s supports a single shunt and has the option for a hall effect transducer to read the output of a second alternator. AFS recommends mounting the hall effect transducer on the cabin side of the firewall and that means bringing the B-lead of one alternator through the firewall. I'm basically using Z-12 with a Plane Power 60A alternator for my primary alternator and a SD-20 for my aux alternator with a B&C stand-by regulator. I'm not planning the current sensor for the B&C stand-by regulator show on Z-12. I'm considering using a single shunt that has both alternator outputs connected to one side and the other side of the shunt connected to a ANL60 which would connect to the starter contactor. I would turn on the SD-20 to verify it was operational as part of preflight before turning on the PP-60A alternator. Above idle, the two alternators should not be delivering power at the same time. I think this would allow me to monitor the output of both alternators AND allow me to eliminate the cabin side hall effect transducer. I'd like help understanding the downside to sharing a single shunt that I may not be seeing. You can put the sensor on the forward side of the firewall and run BOTH b-leads through the single sensor. The display will then read TOTAL output for the two but since the SD-20 only comes alive when the bus voltage depresses (main alternator off line) then your instrumentation will only display one alternator at a time. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Single shunt for two alternators? From: "user9253" Connecting both alternators to the shunt is the same as connecting the alternators in parallel. Both alternators should not be turned on at the same time. If one of the alternators shorts out, the fuse will blow from excessive battery current. Shunts have also been known to fail. Either one of these failure modes will open the circuit to both alternators. Sharing components between two circuits is like putting all of one's eggs in one basket. Dynon has a good diagram of 3 possible ammeter shunt locations on page 3-12: http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/Install_Guides/FlightDEK-D180%20Installation%20Guide.pdf Location "C" eliminates bringing the alternator B lead into the cockpit (for a hall effect transducer) and will show current used by the aircraft except for battery charging current or main contactor coil current. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312647#312647 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mouser Packaging From: "user9253" Thanks for the reply Stein. I agree with everything you said. People make mistakes, me included. I am not holding a grudge against Mouser. In the future, I will specify in the remarks section how I want merchandise shipped, for instance, in one box or coiled, etc. If customers have a bad experience with a company, next time they will conduct business with another company. Each employee is an ambassador for their company. Their actions reflect on how their company is judged. In the old days, a company could afford to lose one disgruntled customer. But now with the internet, customers can share their experiences with others online. It behooves a company to treat each customer with respect and integrity. Now I need to finalize my order to Digi-key. LOL Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312653#312653 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:34 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Question Hi all, I was re-reading the aeroelectric section on grounding the other day and was left with a question. I am building an RV 8, rear mounted battery. I have grounded the battery to a longeron locally. I plan to put a brass bolt through the firewall, bring the engine ground strap to that and the forest of tabs ground on the other side. I got to wondering if the electrical connection of the firewall to the longeron is going to sufficiently ground the battery. Has this been the standard arrangement for everyone with a rear mounted, locally grounded battery? Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Finishing San Ramon, CA ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bad Fuseblock? From: Greg Green Slightly off-topic from the hot connector, but it seemed like a good point to ask whether anyone was aware of the revised NTSB Part 830 rules on reporting. Dennis was not required to report as only 50% of his displays went blank. Here is the relevant new rule: Immediate notification: Notify the nearest NTSB field office when: (a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed incidents occur: ...... (9) A complete loss of information, excluding flickering, from more than 50% of an aircraft=92s electronic instrumentation displays (PFD, etc.); I haven't seen much discussion on this on the list, perhaps because it is s o new??? Effective Mar 10, 2010. *Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 9:32 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Bad Fuseblock? > > > Last week while flying my Lancair Legacy, one of my two "glass cockpit" > screens went dark. The two screens are redundant, so continuing the > flight was no problem. When I landed and back in the hangar, I replaced the > fuse, hoping for the cheap and easy fix. Surprisingly, it seemed to fix the > problem. Although the fuse I removed still looked good, the screen power ed > up normally with the new fuse. However, after about five minutes, I > happened to touch the joint where the power wire connects to the fuse blo ck > and it was almost too hot to touch. > > > I figured I had a bad crimp on the Fast-On connector that attaches to the > tab on the fuse block. I cut it off and tested it with my VOM. But I > couldn't find any problem with it. I soldered a new piece of wire to > replace the part I cut off and crimped a new Fast-On connector. I guesse d > that the fuse for some reason hadn't formed a gas-tight connection and > removed and replaced it a number of times to burnish off the corrosion. I > replaced the fuse and it now worked perfectly. > > > The fuse block, the ATO fuse, and the Fast-On connector were all name > brand. The connector was Amp PIDG. There was no heat damage visible on the > connector, which looked perfectly good. And tested perfectly good. The > screen takes 2.0 amps at 14 volts and is fused at 5 amps. I have 350 hou rs > and 3.5 years flying time on the airplane. > > > Anybody have a better hypotheses than the "internal corrosion between the > tabs of the fuse and the fuse holder?" The fuse block is under the > glareshield and protected from the elements. > > > Thanks, > > Dennis > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ** -- Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.