---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/18/10: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:49 AM - Electroluminescent wire (James Kilford) 2. 06:24 AM - Re: Electroluminescent wire (Richard Dudley) 3. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane (Jim Wickert) 4. 07:27 AM - Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help. (Andrew Zachar) 5. 07:50 AM - Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane (paul wilson) 6. 07:50 AM - What's all this spike-catcher stuff anyhow? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 08:22 AM - Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help. (Andrew Zachar) 8. 08:25 AM - Re: dim able strip LED lighting (Eric M. Jones) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: Electroluminescent wire (James Kilford) 10. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: dim able strip LED lighting (James Kilford) 11. 09:05 AM - Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORKING LINKS) (Andrew Zachar) 12. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: STROBE NOISE RESOLVED??? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 10:43 AM - Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help. (Ed Holyoke) 14. 10:59 AM - Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK (jonlaury) 15. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK (Andrew Zachar) 16. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK (Mike Welch) 17. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK (Andrew Zachar) 18. 12:36 PM - Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? (Geoff Heap) 19. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? (Daniel Hooper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent wire From: James Kilford Gents, I've been considering my options for instrument lighting, and ended up buying some electroluminescent wire. I thought I might run two lengths of this stuff -- one tucked under the coaming, to light the panel, and another above the switch panel to light the switch legends. I saw that this stuff is driven by some kind of oscillator, and I wonder if this is likely to cause radio interference and noise. Does anyone have any information or experience? Many thanks in anticipation, James ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:46 AM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent wire Hi James, I used electroluminescent tape about 1" wide above the instrument panel in my RV-6A. It was powered by an oscillator (I don't remember the frequency). It fully illuminated the panel and there was no evidence of interference on the radio. Regards, Richard Dudley On 10/18/2010 6:45 AM, James Kilford wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James Kilford > > Gents, > > I've been considering my options for instrument lighting, and ended up > buying some electroluminescent wire. I thought I might run two > lengths of this stuff -- one tucked under the coaming, to light the > panel, and another above the switch panel to light the switch legends. > > I saw that this stuff is driven by some kind of oscillator, and I > wonder if this is likely to cause radio interference and noise. > > Does anyone have any information or experience? > > Many thanks in anticipation, > > James > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:29 AM PST US From: "Jim Wickert" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane Correct Noel, There are several that are available with SSD eliminate the problem of the HD at altitude, and from bouncing but we don't do that do we!!!! Jim Wickert Tel 920-467-0219 Cell 920-912-1014 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane There are a few netbooks out there that don't have hard drives... might be an idea. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Sent: October 17, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane Remember that anything using a hard drive depends on a little cushion of air between the read-write head and the disk. Using a HD above 10,000 feet cabin pressure is risky. Apple, Maxtor and Seagate state 10,000 feet as the maximum operating altitude. Don't forget those IPods. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316027#316027 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:48 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help. From: Andrew Zachar Warning: The following is LONG and may be borderline too clever and complicated for an OBAM airplane, but I'm having fun with the experiment fo r now... (Also, you can read the following with embedded pictures/video at http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/rolling-my-own-wig-wag-circuit/ and then http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/wig-wag-fail/) Let's get started. Over the last couple months, I=92ve been eyeing various landing and taxi li ght setups, trying to figure out what I want to do for my airplane. I=92m not super keen on the leading edge landing/taxi light setup right now, so I wan t to focus on putting all the lights in the wingtips. There is a Van=92s wing tip landing light kit that puts two MR16 sized bulbs in each wingtip. Supposedly, you can aim one set forward for landing (also recognition) lights, and aim the other set down for taxi. I=92ve read on the forums that people haven=92t been too thrilled with this setup using the standard 35W a nd 50W halogens that van=92s provides (Is that what they provide?). Something about not getting enough light on the centerline of the aircraft, where you need it for landing. I have also read, however, that with the MR16 HID upgrades from somewhere like www.planelights.com or duckworksav.com, there is plenty of light to go around. But then we come to wig-wag. I think wig-wag (pulsing lights) for the landing lights is a requirement safety wise (for me), so I am planning on incorporating a wig-wag circuit into my landing lights. I could just wire them in parallel, so you turn the landing lights on, and either wig-wag them or not depending on wig-wag switch position, but becaus e these are going to be HID bulbs, one needs to warm the bulbs up before pulsing. (I=92ve read that 25 seconds was used previously on HID flashing circuits, so I=92m going to use 30 seconds for now, but I may bump that up based on a crude bulb temperature test I may set up in the future.) Procedurally, I could just wait 30 seconds after turning the landing lights on before turning on the other switch, pulsing them, but who can remember that 100% of the time? 30 seconds is just about the time it takes between turning the lights on for takeoff and liftoff. This is not the right time t o be reaching down for another switch. I=92d rather flip both switches ON, an d have them automatically warm up before starting to pulse. Enter xevision. They have a multiple-hundred-dollar HID flasher box that will work great for this application. Except I=92m an engineer, and I love a good problem to solve, and I don=92t have hundreds of dollars laying around for their unit. (And, I want to mess around a little with timer circuits, etc.) Enter Microsoft Visio and B&C. Using Bob N=92s Low Cost Wing Wag Alternativ e document (page 2.0) as a starting point, I drew up a concept for a landing and wig-wag circuit with a delay timer (haven=92t figured out the timer circuit yet, but it=92s just going to trigger a relay, so I=92m going to simulate it with a switch for now). Keep in mind, I could combine the functions into a 2-10 switch (similar to page 3.0 of the wig-wag document), but then I couldn=92t use the switch-breaker I=92m planning to use in place of the regular switch I have depicted. Maybe this circuit is a good candidate for an inline fuse=85I=92l l sort that out later. Anyway, here=92s the circuit for now (since I am a wiring novice, I=92ll ha ve to figure out how to connect 5 wires to one switch terminal later=85I know you can=92t just bolt them all on there.) Oh, and I=92ve shown the HID lights here as just normal lights. You get the idea, though. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-off1.jpg Okay, for the first iteration (see next picture), I=92ve turned on the LDG LT switch. +12VDC is now available through the switch, and is going to the following places: 1) to the timer circuit, starting the 30s timer (mechanis m TBD), 2) The COM terminal on the SPDT Relay (and therefore through the NC terminal to both of the WIGWIG ON terminals of that switch), and 3) to both of the WIGWIG OFF terminals of that switch. Summary, the 30s timer as started, and both landing lights are on steady. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonlessthan30.jp g At this point, if we turn the WIGWAG switch ON (see next picture), the landing lights are still getting power, but through the NC terminals of the relay, so they are both still on steady. This is good, because we don=92t w ant them to pulse before the 30s of warm up time as elapsed. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonwwonlessthan3 0.jpg Okay, let=92s turn the WIGWAG switch back off, and let the 30 seconds elaps e. Now. +12VDC is now available through the switch, and is going to the following places: 1) to the timer circuit, which has now closed the relay, 2) The COM terminal on the SPDT Relay (and therefore through the NO termina l to the SSF flasher, and then to both of the WIGWIG ON terminals of that switch), and 3) to both of the WIGWIG OFF terminals of that switch. Summary, the 30s timer has elapsed, but since the WIGWAG switch is off, we are still getting steady lights. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgongreaterthan30 .jpg Finally, we move the WIGWAG switch to ON, and the lights are being powered through the LDG LT switch, the trigger relay, which closes the SPDT relay, the SSF flasher, and the WIGWAG switches ON terminals. Summary. Pulsing lights. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonwwongreaterth an30.jpg Basically, the timer won=92t let power go through the flasher until 30s aft er the landing lights are turned on. A couple problems, though. FAIL. Okay, so maybe FAIL is a little strong. Last week sometime (can=92t remember when, it was a rough week at work), I ordered some things from B&C to make the wig-wag circuit I=92ve been dreaming up. Anyway, a small box with all my goodies appeared on Thursday, so of course I stayed up late trying to put my circuit together. All I have as far as electrical tools is one of those $5 combination crimper/stripper tools that really sucks. After an hour of wiring, my hands were killing me, frustration levels were really high, and I made the decision that I needed both an automatic stripper (I hope that doesn=92t se t off the google search alarms) and a professional crimper. More on those later. Anyway, that night, I ended up with this: http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20101017-008-large.jpg +14V will come in to the left, and the lights will be connected to the center terminals of the 2-3 switch in the picture. the fast-on connector at the top of the picture will eventually be connected to a timer circuit that will close the relay (top left) after 30 seconds. Since I had never used a Stripmaster before tonight, I snagged this. (I'm sure everyone else on this list is familiar with them. http://videos.videopress.com/21Myv62x/20101017-014_dvd.mp4 Pretty slick, huh? This is instead of about 60 seconds worth of stupid tool-knife-stupid tool-hurt hand-knife again-stupid tool just to strip one end of one wire. Okay, let=92s hook up my circuit. This is LDG ON and WIGWAG OFF. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20101017-010-large.jpg But. This is where bad stuff starting happening. I threw the WIGWAG switch to ON and then used the simulated timer circuit t o close the relay. Nothing happened (lights stayed on). After a little more investigation, I figured out that both the normally ope n (NO) and normally closed (NC) contacts were getting +14V all the time (The NO contact was at +14V because it was being backfed through the flasher. I don't know if this is a problem or not yet. Maybe this is where I need some diodes. During the investigation, I wanted to make sure that everything works as advertised. I wired up the flasher from B&C. I not sure it=92s working correctly. http://videos.videopress.com/uTQKDDyA/20101017-015_dvd.mp4 It=92s making a weird buzzing noise, and the first light comes on and start s to dim just as then the second one starts to come on, but it doesn=92t real ly finish a singe cycle. Finally, I bypassed the B&C flasher and checked the relay operation back in the original circuit. First, I turn on the lights. Then, I turn on the wigwag, and the lights sta y constant (simulating timer less than 30 seconds). Third, I=92ll close the relay (simulating 30 seconds has elapsed) so current flows through the flasher (although since it=92s not hooked up, the lights should turn off.) It works as I expected it to. http://videos.videopress.com/Dufybbyc/20101017-019_dvd.mp4 Next steps: 1) Figure out if the B&C wig-wag module is working correctly and I am makin g some sort of error. 2) Once I get that working, hook it back up. 3) Order a 2-10 switch to do the same thing on one switch per my second drawing: http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/2-10wigwagproposal-off.jpg Any comments? Ideas? -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:01 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Laptop supply for your car/airplane Probably be a good idea to check the power consumption of the laptop. Mine with a 17" screen draws 185 to 195 watts when used with an inverter in my truck. More power is required for the dual hard drives Paul ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:01 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: What's all this spike-catcher stuff anyhow? It was suggested last week that application of plain-vanilla diodes to the coils of relays and contactors was "so last century". I agree. The effects of energy stored on inductors has been studied for over two centuries. Circuit designers have both exploited the phenomenon as a benefit and struggled with them as a deleterious liability for about the same amount of time. I wrote this piece with some notion of putting a host of simple-ideas surrounding the inductive energy storage and potential for spikes due to rapid release into clearer perspective. http://tinyurl.com/25wjo7w Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help. From: Andrew Zachar Update: I've already figured out I'll need some diodes on the "flasher" side of the 2-3 switch. Both lights are getting current all the time through the wire connected to NC on my relay. Without doing any research on diodes, how do I decide which ones to use? (Should I just buy the Full wave Diode rectifier as shown on page 3.0 of Bob's document?) Thanks again. -az On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Andrew Zachar wrote: > Warning: The following is LONG and may be borderline too clever and > complicated for an OBAM airplane, but I'm having fun with the experiment for > now... > (Also, you can read the following with embedded pictures/video > athttp://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/rolling-my-own-wig-wag-circuit/and > thenhttp://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/wig-wag-fail/) > > Let's get started. > Over the last couple months, Ive been eyeing various landing and taxi light > setups, trying to figure out what I want to do for my airplane. Im not > super keen on the leading edge landing/taxi light setup right now, so I want > to focus on putting all the lights in the wingtips. There is a Vans wingtip > landing light kit that puts two MR16 sized bulbs in each wingtip. > Supposedly, you can aim one set forward for landing (also recognition) > lights, and aim the other set down for taxi. Ive read on the forums that > people havent been too thrilled with this setup using the standard 35W and > 50W halogens that vans provides (Is that what they provide?). Something > about not getting enough light on the centerline of the aircraft, where you > need it for landing. I have also read, however, that with the MR16 HID > upgrades from somewhere like www.planelights.com or duckworksav.com, there > is plenty of light to go around. > > But then we come to wig-wag. I think wig-wag (pulsing lights) for the > landing lights is a requirement safety wise (for me), so I am planning on > incorporating a wig-wag circuit into my landing lights. > > I could just wire them in parallel, so you turn the landing lights on, and > either wig-wag them or not depending on wig-wag switch position, but because > these are going to be HID bulbs, one needs to warm the bulbs up before > pulsing. (Ive read that 25 seconds was used previously on HID flashing > circuits, so Im going to use 30 seconds for now, but I may bump that up > based on a crude bulb temperature test I may set up in the future.) > > Procedurally, I could just wait 30 seconds after turning the landing lights > on before turning on the other switch, pulsing them, but who can remember > that 100% of the time? 30 seconds is just about the time it takes between > turning the lights on for takeoff and liftoff. This is not the right time to > be reaching down for another switch. Id rather flip both switches ON, and > have them automatically warm up before starting to pulse. > > Enter xevision. They have a multiple-hundred-dollar HID flasher box that > will work great for this application. Except Im an engineer, and I love a > good problem to solve, and I dont have hundreds of dollars laying around > for their unit. (And, I want to mess around a little with timer circuits, > etc.) > > Enter Microsoft Visio and B&C. Using Bob Ns Low Cost Wing Wag Alternative > document (page 2.0) as a starting point, I drew up a concept for a landing > and wig-wag circuit with a delay timer (havent figured out the timer > circuit yet, but its just going to trigger a relay, so Im going to > simulate it with a switch for now). > > Keep in mind, I could combine the functions into a 2-10 switch (similar to > page 3.0 of the wig-wag document), but then I couldnt use the > switch-breaker Im planning to use in place of the regular switch I have > depicted. Maybe this circuit is a good candidate for an inline fuseIll > sort that out later. > > Anyway, heres the circuit for now (since I am a wiring novice, Ill have to > figure out how to connect 5 wires to one switch terminal laterI know you > cant just bolt them all on there.) > > Oh, and Ive shown the HID lights here as just normal lights. You get the > idea, though. > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-off1.jpg > > Okay, for the first iteration (see next picture), Ive turned on the LDG LT > switch. +12VDC is now available through the switch, and is going to the > following places: 1) to the timer circuit, starting the 30s timer (mechanism > TBD), 2) The COM terminal on the SPDT Relay (and therefore through the NC > terminal to both of the WIGWIG ON terminals of that switch), and 3) toboth > of the WIGWIG OFF terminals of that switch. > > Summary, the 30s timer as started, and both landing lights are on steady. > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonlessthan30.jpg > > At this point, if we turn the WIGWAG switch ON(see next picture), the > landing lights are still getting power, but through the NC terminals of the > relay, so they are both still on steady. This is good, because we dont want > them to pulse before the 30s of warm up time as elapsed. > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonwwonlessthan30.jpg > > Okay, lets turn the WIGWAG switch back off, and let the 30 seconds elapse. > Now. +12VDC is now available through the switch, and is going to the > following places: 1) to the timer circuit, which has now closed the relay, > 2) The COM terminal on the SPDT Relay (and therefore through the NO terminal > to the SSF flasher, and then to both of the WIGWIG ON terminals of that > switch), and 3) toboth of the WIGWIG OFF terminals of that switch. > > Summary, the 30s timer has elapsed, but since the WIGWAG switch is off, we > are still getting steady lights. > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgongreaterthan30.jpg > > Finally, we move the WIGWAG switch to ON, and the lights are being powered > through the LDG LT switch, the trigger relay, which closes the SPDT relay, > the SSF flasher, and the WIGWAG switches ON terminals. > > Summary. Pulsing lights. > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonwwongreaterthan30.jpg > > Basically, the timer wont let power go through the flasher until 30s after > the landing lights are turned on. > > A couple problems, though. > > FAIL. > > Okay, so maybe FAIL is a little strong. > > Last week sometime (cant remember when, it was a rough week at work), I > ordered some things fromB&Cto make the wig-wag circuit Ive been dreaming > up. > > Anyway, a small box with all my goodies appeared on Thursday, so of course I > stayed up late trying to put my circuit together. > > All I have as far as electrical tools is one of those $5 combination > crimper/stripper tools that really sucks. After an hour of wiring, my hands > were killing me, frustration levels were really high, and I made the > decision that I needed both an automatic stripper (I hope that doesnt set > off the google search alarms) and a professional crimper. More on those > later. > > Anyway, that night, I ended up with this: > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20101017-008-large.jpg > > +14V will come in to the left, and the lights will be connected to the > center terminals of the 2-3 switch in the picture. the fast-on connector at > the top of the picture will eventually be connected to a timer circuit that > will close the relay (top left) after 30 seconds. > > Since I had never used a Stripmaster before tonight, I snagged this. (I'm > sure everyone else on this list is familiar with them. > > http://videos.videopress.com/21Myv62x/20101017-014_dvd.mp4 > > Pretty slick, huh? This is instead of about 60 seconds worth of stupid > tool-knife-stupid tool-hurt hand-knife again-stupid tool just to strip one > end of one wire. > > Okay, lets hook up my circuit. > > This is LDG ON and WIGWAG OFF. > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20101017-010-large.jpg > > But. This is where bad stuff starting happening. > > I threw the WIGWAG switch to ON and then used the simulated timer circuit to > close the relay. Nothing happened (lights stayed on). > > After a little more investigation, I figured out that both the normally open > (NO) and normally closed (NC) contacts were getting +14V all the time (The > NO contact was at +14V because it was being backfed through the flasher. I > don't know if this is a problem or not yet. Maybe this is where I need some > diodes. > > During the investigation, I wanted to make sure that everything works as > advertised. > > I wired up the flasher from B&C. I not sure its working correctly. > > http://videos.videopress.com/uTQKDDyA/20101017-015_dvd.mp4 > > Its making a weird buzzing noise, and the first light comes on and starts > to dim just as then the second one starts to come on, but it doesnt really > finish a singe cycle. > > Finally, I bypassed the B&C flasher and checked the relay operation back in > the original circuit. > > First, I turn on the lights. Then, I turn on the wigwag, and the lights stay > constant (simulating timer less than 30 seconds). Third, Ill close the > relay (simulating 30 seconds has elapsed) so current flows through the > flasher (although since its not hooked up, the lights should turn off.) It > works as I expected it to. > > http://videos.videopress.com/Dufybbyc/20101017-019_dvd.mp4 > > Next steps: > > 1) Figure out if the B&C wig-wag module is working correctly and I am making > some sort of error. > > 2) Once I get that working, hook it back up. > > 3) Order a 2-10 switch to do the same thing on one switch per my second > drawing: > > http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/2-10wigwagproposal-off.jpg > > Any comments? Ideas? > > -- > > Andrew Zachar > andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com > > -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting From: "Eric M. Jones" A friend of mine has a hi-tech bow with fiberoptic cross-hair sights, lighted by three stacked hearing aid batteries. He pays me in venison. The LED needed replacing and I fixed it, but that one broke too. Next time I added a tiny pcb to the LED. Then he complained that the LED was far too bright. So I planned to add a resistor that would respond to pressure so when the cap was screwed on, the LED would brighten or dim. It turns out that the black conductive foam used to package ICs, works well as a pressure sensitive low value resistor. I punched out a little disk of it and added it to the stack of batteries. Result? It worked remarkably well. I offer this technique to anyone who want to have a dimming control in a flashlight with stacked batteries. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316178#316178 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent wire From: James Kilford Richard, Thanks for that. I'll let you know how I get on! James On 18 October 2010 14:12, Richard Dudley wrote: > > > Hi James, > I used electroluminescent tape about 1" wide above the instrument panel in > my RV-6A. It was powered by an oscillator (I don't remember the frequency). > It fully illuminated the panel and there was no evidence of interference on > the radio. > > Regards, > Richard Dudley > > > On 10/18/2010 6:45 AM, James Kilford wrote: >> >> >> Gents, >> >> I've been considering my options for instrument lighting, and ended up >> buying some electroluminescent wire. I thought I might run two >> lengths of this stuff -- one tucked under the coaming, to light the >> panel, and another above the switch panel to light the switch legends. >> >> I saw that this stuff is driven by some kind of oscillator, and I >> wonder if this is likely to cause radio interference and noise. >> >> Does anyone have any information or experience? >> >> Many thanks in anticipation, >> >> James >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting From: James Kilford Ha! That's brilliant! Thanks for sharing that snippet. James Do not archive On 18 October 2010 16:22, Eric M. Jones wrote: > > A friend of mine has a hi-tech bow with fiberoptic cross-hair sights, lighted by three stacked hearing aid batteries. He pays me in venison. > > The LED needed replacing and I fixed it, but that one broke too. Next time I added a tiny pcb to the LED. Then he complained that the LED was far too bright. > > So I planned to add a resistor that would respond to pressure so when the cap was screwed on, the LED would brighten or dim. It turns out that the black conductive foam used to package ICs, works well as a pressure sensitive low value resistor. I punched out a little disk of it and added it to the stack of batteries. > > Result? It worked remarkably well. > > I offer this technique to anyone who want to have a dimming control in a flashlight with stacked batteries. > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones@charter.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316178#316178 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:22 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORKING LINKS) From: Andrew Zachar arning: The following is LONG and may be borderline too clever and complicated for an OBAM airplane, but I'm having fun with the experiment fo r now... (Also, you can read the following with embedded pictures/video at http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/rolling-my-own-wig-wag-circuit/ and then http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/wig-wag-fail/) Let's get started. Over the last couple months, I=92ve been eyeing various landing and taxi li ght setups, trying to figure out what I want to do for my airplane. I=92m not super keen on the leading edge landing/taxi light setup right now, so I wan t to focus on putting all the lights in the wingtips. There is a Van=92s wing tip landing light kit that puts two MR16 sized bulbs in each wingtip. Supposedly, you can aim one set forward for landing (also recognition) lights, and aim the other set down for taxi. I=92ve read on the forums that people haven=92t been too thrilled with this setup using the standard 35W a nd 50W halogens that van=92s provides (Is that what they provide?). Something about not getting enough light on the centerline of the aircraft, where you need it for landing. I have also read, however, that with the MR16 HID upgrades from somewhere like www.planelights.com or duckworksav.com, there is plenty of light to go around. But then we come to wig-wag. I think wig-wag (pulsing lights) for the landing lights is a requirement safety wise (for me), so I am planning on incorporating a wig-wag circuit into my landing lights. I could just wire them in parallel, so you turn the landing lights on, and either wig-wag them or not depending on wig-wag switch position, but becaus e these are going to be HID bulbs, one needs to warm the bulbs up before pulsing. (I=92ve read that 25 seconds was used previously on HID flashing circuits, so I=92m going to use 30 seconds for now, but I may bump that up based on a crude bulb temperature test I may set up in the future.) Procedurally, I could just wait 30 seconds after turning the landing lights on before turning on the other switch, pulsing them, but who can remember that 100% of the time? 30 seconds is just about the time it takes between turning the lights on for takeoff and liftoff. This is not the right time t o be reaching down for another switch. I=92d rather flip both switches ON, an d have them automatically warm up before starting to pulse. Enter xevision. They have a multiple-hundred-dollar HID flasher box that will work great for this application. Except I=92m an engineer, and I love a good problem to solve, and I don=92t have hundreds of dollars laying around for their unit. (And, I want to mess around a little with timer circuits, etc.) Enter Microsoft Visio and B&C. Using Bob N=92s Low Cost Wing Wag Alternativ e document (page 2.0) as a starting point, I drew up a concept for a landing and wig-wag circuit with a delay timer (haven=92t figured out the timer circuit yet, but it=92s just going to trigger a relay, so I=92m going to simulate it with a switch for now). Keep in mind, I could combine the functions into a 2-10 switch (similar to page 3.0 of the wig-wag document), but then I couldn=92t use the switch-breaker I=92m planning to use in place of the regular switch I have depicted. Maybe this circuit is a good candidate for an inline fuse=85I=92l l sort that out later. Anyway, here=92s the circuit for now (since I am a wiring novice, I=92ll ha ve to figure out how to connect 5 wires to one switch terminal later=85I know you can=92t just bolt them all on there.) Oh, and I=92ve shown the HID lights here as just normal lights. You get the idea, though. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-off3.jpg Okay, for the first iteration (see next picture), I=92ve turned on the LDG LT switch. +12VDC is now available through the switch, and is going to the following places: 1) to the timer circuit, starting the 30s timer (mechanis m TBD), 2) The COM terminal on the SPDT Relay (and therefore through the NC terminal to both of the WIGWIG ON terminals of that switch), and 3) to both of the WIGWIG OFF terminals of that switch. Summary, the 30s timer as started, and both landing lights are on steady. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonlessthan30.jp g At this point, if we turn the WIGWAG switch ON (see next picture), the landing lights are still getting power, but through the NC terminals of the relay, so they are both still on steady. This is good, because we don=92t w ant them to pulse before the 30s of warm up time as elapsed. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonwwonlessthan3 01.jpg Okay, let=92s turn the WIGWAG switch back off, and let the 30 seconds elaps e. Now. +12VDC is now available through the switch, and is going to the following places: 1) to the timer circuit, which has now closed the relay, 2) The COM terminal on the SPDT Relay (and therefore through the NO termina l to the SSF flasher, and then to both of the WIGWIG ON terminals of that switch), and 3) to both of the WIGWIG OFF terminals of that switch. Summary, the 30s timer has elapsed, but since the WIGWAG switch is off, we are still getting steady lights. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgongreaterthan30 1.jpg Finally, we move the WIGWAG switch to ON, and the lights are being powered through the LDG LT switch, the trigger relay, which closes the SPDT relay, the SSF flasher, and the WIGWAG switches ON terminals. Summary. Pulsing lights. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/wigwagproposal-ldgonwwongreaterth an301.jpg Basically, the timer won=92t let power go through the flasher until 30s aft er the landing lights are turned on. A couple problems, though. FAIL. Okay, so maybe FAIL is a little strong. Last week sometime (can=92t remember when, it was a rough week at work), I ordered some things from B&C to make the wig-wag circuit I=92ve been dreaming up. Anyway, a small box with all my goodies appeared on Thursday, so of course I stayed up late trying to put my circuit together. All I have as far as electrical tools is one of those $5 combination crimper/stripper tools that really sucks. After an hour of wiring, my hands were killing me, frustration levels were really high, and I made the decision that I needed both an automatic stripper (I hope that doesn=92t se t off the google search alarms) and a professional crimper. More on those later. Anyway, that night, I ended up with this: http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20101017-008-large.jpg +14V will come in to the left, and the lights will be connected to the center terminals of the 2-3 switch in the picture. the fast-on connector at the top of the picture will eventually be connected to a timer circuit that will close the relay (top left) after 30 seconds. Since I had never used a Stripmaster before tonight, I snagged this. (I'm sure everyone else on this list is familiar with them. http://videos.videopress.com/21Myv62x/20101017-014_dvd.mp4 Pretty slick, huh? This is instead of about 60 seconds worth of stupid tool-knife-stupid tool-hurt hand-knife again-stupid tool just to strip one end of one wire. Okay, let=92s hook up my circuit. This is LDG ON and WIGWAG OFF. http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20101017-010-large.jpg But. This is where bad stuff starting happening. I threw the WIGWAG switch to ON and then used the simulated timer circuit t o close the relay. Nothing happened (lights stayed on). After a little more investigation, I figured out that both the normally ope n (NO) and normally closed (NC) contacts were getting +14V all the time (The NO contact was at +14V because it was being backfed through the flasher. I don't know if this is a problem or not yet. Maybe this is where I need some diodes. During the investigation, I wanted to make sure that everything works as advertised. I wired up the flasher from B&C. I not sure it=92s working correctly. http://videos.videopress.com/uTQKDDyA/20101017-015_dvd.mp4 It=92s making a weird buzzing noise, and the first light comes on and start s to dim just as then the second one starts to come on, but it doesn=92t real ly finish a singe cycle. Finally, I bypassed the B&C flasher and checked the relay operation back in the original circuit. First, I turn on the lights. Then, I turn on the wigwag, and the lights sta y constant (simulating timer less than 30 seconds). Third, I=92ll close the relay (simulating 30 seconds has elapsed) so current flows through the flasher (although since it=92s not hooked up, the lights should turn off.) It works as I expected it to. http://videos.videopress.com/Dufybbyc/20101017-019_dvd.mp4 Next steps: 1) Figure out if the B&C wig-wag module is working correctly and I am makin g some sort of error. 2) Once I get that working, hook it back up. 3) Order a 2-10 switch to do the same thing on one switch per my second drawing: http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/2-10wigwagproposal-off1.jpg Any comments? Ideas? -az ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:36 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: STROBE NOISE RESOLVED??? At 09:14 PM 10/17/2010, you wrote: One thing further to add Bob. Thank you so much for your help in solving this dilemma. Let me clarify, that I'm not trying to find the holy grail of a totally noise free airplane, but what I thought was an issue might not be one all together. I just wanted to know and understand what was going on. Good for you! I think that type of tenacity is what has lead me to the very near completion of the airplane (wheras most homebuilts don't get finished up), but this tenacity has also been a stop block to progress in certain instances. Your post regarding your issue on the king air line and the usefulnesss of Signal to noise ratio as a benchmark was not read by me until after I posted a moment ago, but I think you hit the nail on the head. While taxiing around yesterday... Probably while you were posting I notice that even with the headhpones past 60% volume turned up, I couldnt hear the noise with my Jabiru turning past 1300 rpm anyway. Now with the volume at 50% or below I cant hear it at all. Is my headphne actually amplifying the minimal noise? I think so. I've oft suggested that education is not cheap. The most valuable lessons are hard won in terms of time, deliberation and scrapped parts. There's another reader working on a wig-wag configuration that sparked his interest. It may turn out to be a useful exercise for his project, it may never fly. What he learns from this exercise will prove more valuable than the finished device. I can tell you that I've thrown far more parts in the trash than ever ended up in the first successful prototype. Bottom line is that what you take away from this experience will be valuable in two ways. It adds to your bundle of knowledge and makes future endeavors less expensive for not having to learn something new. It also qualifies you to be a teacher of simple-ideas as demonstrated by first-hand experiences in your shop. Sharing with the rest of the List members benefits us all. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:19 AM PST US From: Ed Holyoke Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help. Howdy Andrew, The one thing you should consider first is that the MR-16 sized HIDs, while brighter and cooler than the halogens, still suffer from the same undersized reflector. Getting the light pattern you want for landing and taxi just isn't going to happen from the wingtips. Even though they are very bright, they just don't project that well. The larger reflectors of the Duckworks style leading edge lamps work better at focusing the light where you want it. It's not just about how much light, but also about how well can you focus and project it. Another thing to think about is that your position and strobe lights are probably going to be in the wingtips, right? You'll have interference, in that the strobe/position lights will be in the way of the light you're trying to throw out in front of the plane from those little bulbs. I fit my RV-6 (project) wingtips for MR-16 halogens and experienced the fit and interference problems and the lack of usable light and chose to go back to wing leading edge lighting. I also fit MR-16 sized HIDs into some homemade enclosures mounted to the retractable gear of another plane (the absolute biggest lights we could fit), so I'm not just supposing about the beam pattern deficiency - I've seen it. In my flying 6A, with Duckworks rectangular lights, I've flown several hundred hours with 55w halogens, wig/wagging, which were adequate for both recognition and landing/taxi. When they burned out, I replaced them with 100w bulbs and, as you might expect, there was a noticeable improvement. You'd probably be very happy with HIDs in the leading edges, but my educated guess is you'd be pretty disappointed with the MR-16s in the wingtips. You are correct about wig/wagging being a good safety feature. Over the city, with flight following, other aircraft almost always report me in sight before I see them. The tower controller at my home airport has also made very positive comments about his ability to find me, with a glance. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 10/18/2010 7:23 AM, Andrew Zachar wrote: > Warning: The following is LONG and may be borderline too clever and > complicated for an OBAM airplane, but I'm having fun with the > experiment for now... > > (Also, you can read the following with embedded pictures/video at > http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/rolling-my-own-wig-wag-circuit/ and > then http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/wig-wag-fail/) > > Let's get started. > > Over the last couple months, Ive been eyeing various landing and taxi > light setups, trying to figure out what I want to do for my airplane. > Im not super keen on the leading edge landing/taxi light setup right > now, so I want to focus on putting all the lights in the wingtips. > There is a Vans wingtip landing light kit that puts two MR16 sized > bulbs in each wingtip. Supposedly, you can aim one set forward for > landing (also recognition) lights, and aim the other set down for > taxi. Ive read on the forums that people havent been too thrilled > with this setup using the standard 35W and 50W halogens that vans > provides (Is that what they provide?). Something about not getting > enough light on the centerline of the aircraft, where you need it for > landing. I have also read, however, that with the MR16 HID upgrades > from somewhere like www.planelights.com > or duckworksav.com , there is plenty of light > to go around. > > But then we come to wig-wag. I think wig-wag (pulsing lights) for the > landing lights is a requirement safety wise (for me), so I am planning > on incorporating a wig-wag circuit into my landing lights. > > I ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:13 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK From: "jonlaury" Andrew, What you need is a 555 timer. There are zillions of circuits discussed on the web. Or maybe someone on the forum will chime in. I'm not an electronics whiz, but this was a piece of cake to assemble from http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA. The PCB traces may need heavier wire overlays for landing lights, but the relay contacts are nominally good for 10a in this kit. I'm sure that someone out there makes a heavier gauge kit or can suggest how to modify this one to handle more current if your ldg lights require it. good luck, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316210#316210 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK From: Andrew Zachar Thanks Jon. I have started to read about the 555 timer, but realized that to get what I wanted, I was going to have to build it. That kit looks like the perfect plug-in for the timer part of my setup. I only need the timer to activate the relay, so I think I'll be okay with lower amperage. I'm using the B&C 12V 40A SPDT relay for the electrons that are going to the lights. I'm still baffled about the wig-wag flasher operation. The buzzing (in the video) and the inability for it to complete a full "cycle" has me puzzled. Any ideas? Thanks again for the kit link. I'll get one ordered this afternoon and re-post on how it works. -az On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM, jonlaury wrote: > > Andrew, > > What you need is a 555 timer. There are zillions of circuits discussed on > the web. Or maybe someone on the forum will chime in. > > I'm not an electronics whiz, but this was a piece of cake to assemble from > http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA > . > > The PCB traces may need heavier wire overlays for landing lights, but the > relay contacts are nominally good for 10a in this kit. I'm sure that someone > out there makes a heavier gauge kit or can suggest how to modify this one to > handle more current if your ldg lights require it. > > good luck, > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316210#316210 > > -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:34 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK > What you need is a 555 timer. > good luck=2C > John John=2C group=2C Radio Shack sells a neat little handbook with dozens and dozens of 555 time r circuits. I've built a few of them (like the infared sensor circuit and the cascading LEDs circuit=2C to name a couple). Oh=2C here it is next to computer! Written by Forrest M. Simms=2C it is a great little book for a guy to learn AND build some handy little electronic projects. I have his littl e "mini" notebook=2C plus I ended up getting the much larger hand-book (which is around here somewher e). If you are new to electronics=2C or have limited actual hands-on experience (like me)=2C the Radio Shack boolkets are a great way to introduce yourself to hands-on circuits that ar e fairly easy to build. Also=2C a quick update. I recently complained about Digikey's shipping pri ces=2C and found I had overlooked their shipping choice window. Now that I know better=2C I chose the cheape st shipping method (I'm in no hurry)=2C plus I made a direct price comparison with Digikey and Mouser=2C and Digike y was significantly cheaper. I feel if you can complain publicly=2C you should reward in public=2C too. Digikey goes back to the top of my 'electronics houses' list. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need help (WORK From: Andrew Zachar Jon, all: After looking around a little more at www.electronickits.com, I found this timer: http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/timers/canck002.htm. Cheaper, smaller, etc. than the multi-mode timer. Instead of Delayed ON, it is Delayed OFF. I could easily switch the NO and NC parts of my circuit, but I'm wondering about the following things: 1) My SPDT relay would be closed less (instead of closed while wig-wagging, it is only closed for the 30 second timing period (presumably twice per flight for 30 seconds, instead of twice per flight for 5 minutes?)) Does this matter? 2) If the timer fails, it would default to flashing, which could flash the HIDs prematurely (harmful to HIDs). A delayed ON timer failure would prevent flashing, which is acceptable from a "harmful to HIDs" standpoint. 3) Will I get a few milliseconds of flasher activation before the relay closes once voltage is applied? A simplified diagram to illustrate the difference between the two. (Omitted the switches, but the "switched +14VDC" is the landing light switch.) http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/delayedonvsdelayedoff.jpg I'm thinking based on the failure cases, I prefer delayed ON. Maybe I'll just spring for the multi-mode timer and get the delayed ON function I need (mode 3 as described in http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.pdf). Hmm. -az On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM, jonlaury wrote: > > Andrew, > > What you need is a 555 timer. There are zillions of circuits discussed on > the web. Or maybe someone on the forum will chime in. > > I'm not an electronics whiz, but this was a piece of cake to assemble from > http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA > . > > The PCB traces may need heavier wire overlays for landing lights, but the > relay contacts are nominally good for 10a in this kit. I'm sure that someone > out there makes a heavier gauge kit or can suggest how to modify this one to > handle more current if your ldg lights require it. > > good luck, > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316210#316210 > > -- Andrew Zachar andrew.d.zachar@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:51 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? From: "Geoff Heap" New question guys. I did in fact wire from the Garmin 296 to the Dynon using the DATA OUT 2(violet) wire. When I install an ELT it will be the ACK-04 with GPS compatability. I imagine that it will be the same GPS wire (data 2 out (violet)) that I will need to send position data to the ELT. Assuming this is true, can I splice into that wire?........Geoff -------- Dual controls. Dynon 180. Icom 210 Garmin 296. Becker transponder. Sigtronics intercom. Electric flaperons. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316231#316231 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon 180? From: Daniel Hooper I spent a lot of time dealing with a similar problem.. In my case, a 496 simply refused to give a serial signal on Data 2! Turns out that (I believe) only the 296 has TWO data out lines. All the others have the connector for it, but only one serial out line. It should be just fine to splice the existing serial wire to several devices, as long as you don't go crazy. I think I heard the number 5 from either Dynon or Garmin at one point. It's worth noting that if you upgrade to a different GPS with the same power/data connector, the Data 2 line will likely not work. Hope that helps, --Daniel On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Geoff Heap wrote: > > New question guys. I did in fact wire from the Garmin 296 to the Dynon using the DATA OUT 2(violet) wire. > When I install an ELT it will be the ACK-04 with GPS compatability. I imagine that it will be the same GPS wire (data 2 out (violet)) that I will need to send position data to the ELT. Assuming this is true, can I splice into that wire?........Geoff > > -------- > Dual controls. Dynon 180. Icom 210 Garmin 296. Becker transponder. Sigtronics intercom. Electric flaperons. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316231#316231 > > -- Daniel Hooper ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.