Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:55 AM - EGT Problem (frank3phyl@comcast.net)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: EGT Problem ()
3. 08:24 AM - Re: EGT Problem (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 08:25 AM - Re: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: AUX Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location (Rick Titsworth)
7. 09:25 AM - Rotax 912s wiring (Dan Billingsley)
8. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: AUX Battery (tim2542@sbcglobal.net)
9. 02:50 PM - Re: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: AUX Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:54 PM - Re: Rotax 912s wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: AUX Battery (tim2542@sbcglobal.net)
13. 05:17 PM - Re: Rotax 912s wiring (Dan Billingsley)
Message 1
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I have a ROTAX 912S with GRT EIS model 2000. #3 EGT reading suddenly became erratic--going
from very low reading to normal with all sorts of readings in between
within a second or two. Now I'm getting a steady 25 degree C reading. Fastening
to exhaust is secure & haven't checked other connections, yet. Question:
what happens when the EGT thermocouple goes bad? Is this likely my problem or
more likely a loose connection in wiring? Other three EGT readings are good.
Thanks
Frank
Message 2
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Message 3
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Good Morning Frank and Glenn,
The most common problem with probe reading is because the wires to the
probe are loose. You are supposed to place the toothed washer between the
two
ring terminals, not under the nut or screw, and it must be tightened
thoroughly.
I would check that fastener for proper application and maybe install a new
washer just in case.
The current flowing through that connection is very small and it needs to
be clean and tight.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/22/2010 10:02:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
longg@pjm.com writes:
Frank,
This happened to me recently when I was in there fixing something
unrelated and simply bent the wire back. I got all kinds of wacky reading
s. A
simple disturbance like bending the wire can affect the reading dramatica
lly.
They don=99t go bad that easily.
Glenn E. Long
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of frank3
phyl@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EGT Problem
I have a ROTAX 912S with GRT EIS model 2000. #3 EGT reading suddenly
became erratic--going from very low reading to normal with all sorts of
readings in between within a second or two. Now I'm getting a steady 25
degree C
reading. Fastening to exhaust is secure & haven't checked other
connections, yet. Question: what happens when the EGT thermocouple goes
bad? Is
this likely my problem or more likely a loose connection in wiring? Othe
r
three EGT readings are good.
Thanks
Frank
========================
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========================
===========
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========================
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
At 09:03 PM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
<rtitsworth2@mindspring.com>
Bob,
I'm building a 28v Z-14 type dual-battery/dual-bus system with the voltage
regulators on the inside of the firewall and both 24v batteries in the tail
(for weight/balance considerations).
What kind of airplane are you building?
I have 1 LR3C regulator paired with the std Kelly alternator and 1 LS1A
regulator paired with a SD-20 alternator.
I'm curious, where is the "ideal" location to connect the voltage sense wire
(regulator terminal #3) to:
a) Routed back to the battery contactors (i.e. near the batteries)
b) Anywhere on the power bus(es) near the voltage regulators (i.e. inside of
the firewall power bus stud)
c) Through the firewall to the alternator
d) Doesn't really matter (option B for convenience)
The prefered v-sense points are as shown on Z-14
. . . or per manufacturer's instructions.
I'm assuming I should also set-up/adjust the regulator/alternator output by
measuring the voltage back by the batteries.
No, the voltage regulator "knows" what the voltage
is at its sense terminal. It can make no accurate
assumptions otherwise. Having said that, voltage drops
are, by system configuration, tolerably insignificant.
Fitting the LR/LS series regulators with sense leads
isolated from the field current supply lead went to
the idea of making voltage drops elsewhere still more
insignificant.
Recommend you wire per suggested diagrams and adjust
regulator as necessary to achieve 28.5 to 29.2 volts
at the bus.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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At 09:07 AM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>
> > Is there any reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
>
>No, I see no reason to use a resistor. If someone else used a
>resistor, they should be able to explain why. Just because some
>other builder wired their plane wrong is no reason to do it the same
>way. There have been arguments on this forum about what type of
>diode to use to minimize voltage drop. Using a resistor does not
>minimize voltage drop.
> If there is a reason for using a resistor, it would be
> interesting to know how and why it was used.
An excellent point. A series resistor
in a small battery charging circuit is
indicated for one purpose only and under
a narrow set of circumstances.
If the small battery is at risk for
ever becoming totally discharged one might
improve on battery performance by limiting
the magnitude of recharge current when the
system comes back up at normal voltages.
The batteries I used in the recovery parachute
controllers for HBC
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Recovery_Parachute_Controller.jpg
were 1.2 a.h. devices intended to be charged by and
as back-up for ship's power. If ship's power was
brought on with completely discharged batteries,
the inrush to the little batteries would not be
conducive to a long service lift. Hence, the charge
loop included a 3 ohm resistor that would limit
initial current flows to about 8 amps. This also
prevented the initial recharge current to a dead
battery from popping the 10A breaker on the ship's
bus.
Of course, this would mean that getting the batteries
fully recharged would take longer. It also means that
the charging loop could not be depended upon for
power to run the system. That task was covered by
a separate circuit.
The decision for including such resistors depends
on an assessment (and preventative maintenance
program) for circumstances that might totally
discharge the battery . . . and what you would
do about it if such an event were discovered.
I built a battery maintainer into the parachute
controller intended to be plugged into AC mains
for a minimum of two hours within the week prior
to a flight where the parachute was to be armed.
Further, preflight testing by ground
crews before launch included a load test of the
batteries. Hence, probability of the resistor ever
being functionality tasked was very low.
Joe's assessment is quite correct that inclusion
of a resistor in the charge path of a battery demands
a full understanding of it's purpose and the effect
on system functionality under all anticipated
conditions. 99% of the time, you don't need them.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
Bob Thanks,
Answers FYI...
Lancair ES-Turbo (in the Detroit area)
B&C circuit diagram shows sense wire(s) going to the breaker panel/bus,
which I can easily do, but that's 14 feet from the batteries via #2AWG
(apparently not a big deal).
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 09:03 PM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
<rtitsworth2@mindspring.com>
Bob,
I'm building a 28v Z-14 type dual-battery/dual-bus system with the voltage
regulators on the inside of the firewall and both 24v batteries in the tail
(for weight/balance considerations).
What kind of airplane are you building?
I have 1 LR3C regulator paired with the std Kelly alternator and 1 LS1A
regulator paired with a SD-20 alternator.
I'm curious, where is the "ideal" location to connect the voltage sense wire
(regulator terminal #3) to:
a) Routed back to the battery contactors (i.e. near the batteries)
b) Anywhere on the power bus(es) near the voltage regulators (i.e. inside of
the firewall power bus stud)
c) Through the firewall to the alternator
d) Doesn't really matter (option B for convenience)
The prefered v-sense points are as shown on Z-14
. . . or per manufacturer's instructions.
I'm assuming I should also set-up/adjust the regulator/alternator output by
measuring the voltage back by the batteries.
No, the voltage regulator "knows" what the voltage
is at its sense terminal. It can make no accurate
assumptions otherwise. Having said that, voltage drops
are, by system configuration, tolerably insignificant.
Fitting the LR/LS series regulators with sense leads
isolated from the field current supply lead went to
the idea of making voltage drops elsewhere still more
insignificant.
Recommend you wire per suggested diagrams and adjust
regulator as necessary to achieve 28.5 to 29.2 volts
at the bus.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Rotax 912s wiring |
Good Morning,
I am currently trying to determine what wiring scheme to use for my Kitfox IV /
Rotax 912S. Kitfox has a simple schematic, however, I also went through an
Aeroelectric workshop and got a book. I am looking at the schematic in the back
of the book labeled Figure Z-16 (this was about 5 years ago). I like the plan
of using an essential buss so I would like to include it...I also want to use
the crowbar OV module. I have ordered one from Bob. My Questions:
1. Do I need to use the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay in conjunction with the
OV module? If so, I cannot find it on your website.
2. I am using a Grand Rapids EIS (engine Monitor) and it has a low voltage
allert so, would I be duplicating my needs by getting a low voltage monitor
module?
Thanks for your help,
Dan B
Message 8
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Thanks Bob, Joe. The idea as I understood it was in regard to limiting the charge
current just as you surmised.
The Diode I'm using is a 9amp wire diode. I'll install it using your homeless components
methods from the site, no resistor.
Thanks,Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:13 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> At 09:07 AM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Is there any reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
>>
>> No, I see no reason to use a resistor. If someone else used a resistor, they
should be able to explain why. Just because some other builder wired their
plane wrong is no reason to do it the same way. There have been arguments on
this forum about what type of diode to use to minimize voltage drop. Using a
resistor does not minimize voltage drop.
>> If there is a reason for using a resistor, it would be interesting to know
how and why it was used.
>
> An excellent point. A series resistor
> in a small battery charging circuit is
> indicated for one purpose only and under
> a narrow set of circumstances.
>
> If the small battery is at risk for
> ever becoming totally discharged one might
> improve on battery performance by limiting
> the magnitude of recharge current when the
> system comes back up at normal voltages.
> The batteries I used in the recovery parachute
> controllers for HBC
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Recovery_Parachute_Controller.jpg
>
> were 1.2 a.h. devices intended to be charged by and
> as back-up for ship's power. If ship's power was
> brought on with completely discharged batteries,
> the inrush to the little batteries would not be
> conducive to a long service lift. Hence, the charge
> loop included a 3 ohm resistor that would limit
> initial current flows to about 8 amps. This also
> prevented the initial recharge current to a dead
> battery from popping the 10A breaker on the ship's
> bus.
>
> Of course, this would mean that getting the batteries
> fully recharged would take longer. It also means that
> the charging loop could not be depended upon for
> power to run the system. That task was covered by
> a separate circuit.
>
> The decision for including such resistors depends
> on an assessment (and preventative maintenance
> program) for circumstances that might totally
> discharge the battery . . . and what you would
> do about it if such an event were discovered.
>
> I built a battery maintainer into the parachute
> controller intended to be plugged into AC mains
> for a minimum of two hours within the week prior
> to a flight where the parachute was to be armed.
>
> Further, preflight testing by ground
> crews before launch included a load test of the
> batteries. Hence, probability of the resistor ever
> being functionality tasked was very low.
>
> Joe's assessment is quite correct that inclusion
> of a resistor in the charge path of a battery demands
> a full understanding of it's purpose and the effect
> on system functionality under all anticipated
> conditions. 99% of the time, you don't need them.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
>
>B&C circuit diagram shows sense wire(s) going to the breaker
>panel/bus, which I can easily do, but that's 14 feet from the
>batteries via #2AWG (apparently not a big deal).
Correct
Bob . . .
Message 10
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At 11:49 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob, Joe. The idea as I understood it was in regard to
>limiting the charge current just as you surmised.
>The Diode I'm using is a 9amp wire diode. I'll install it using your
>homeless components methods from the site, no resistor.
What's the capacity of your aux battery?
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912s wiring |
At 11:16 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
><dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
>Good Morning,
>I am currently trying to determine what wiring scheme to use for my
>Kitfox IV /
>Rotax 912S. Kitfox has a simple schematic, however, I also went through an
>Aeroelectric workshop and got a book. I am looking at the schematic
>in the back
>of the book labeled Figure Z-16 (this was about 5 years ago).
You can keep your book updated for no extra
charge from website downloads at
Http://aeroelectric.com
this is especially true of the Z-figures which
can be acquired individually at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/
> I like the plan
>of using an essential buss so I would like to include it...I also want to use
>the crowbar OV module. I have ordered one from Bob. My Questions:
>1. Do I need to use the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay in
>conjunction with the
>OV module? If so, I cannot find it on your website.
The relay is necessary. You can get the 704 from
http://bandc.biz. This part from RadioShack is also
suitable
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62477
>2. I am using a Grand Rapids EIS (engine Monitor) and it has a low voltage
>allert so, would I be duplicating my needs by getting a low voltage monitor
>module?
Yes. You don't need two . . .
Bob . . .
Message 12
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7ah
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:48 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> At 11:49 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Bob, Joe. The idea as I understood it was in regard to limiting the
charge current just as you surmised.
>> The Diode I'm using is a 9amp wire diode. I'll install it using your homeless
components methods from the site, no resistor.
>
> What's the capacity of your aux battery?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912s wiring |
Thanks Bob, Just what I needed!
Dan
----- Original Message ----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 2:52:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912s wiring
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 11:16 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
><dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
> Good Morning,
> I am currently trying to determine what wiring scheme to use for my Kitfox IV
/
> Rotax 912S. Kitfox has a simple schematic, however, I also went through an
> Aeroelectric workshop and got a book. I am looking at the schematic in the
back
> of the book labeled Figure Z-16 (this was about 5 years ago).
You can keep your book updated for no extra
charge from website downloads at
Http://aeroelectric.com
this is especially true of the Z-figures which
can be acquired individually at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/
> I like the plan
> of using an essential buss so I would like to include it...I also want to use
> the crowbar OV module. I have ordered one from Bob. My Questions:
> 1. Do I need to use the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay in conjunction with the
> OV module? If so, I cannot find it on your website.
The relay is necessary. You can get the 704 from
http://bandc.biz. This part from RadioShack is also
suitable
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62477
> 2. I am using a Grand Rapids EIS (engine Monitor) and it has a low voltage
> allert so, would I be duplicating my needs by getting a low voltage monitor
> module?
Yes. You don't need two . . .
Bob . . .
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