Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (Bill & Sue)
2. 06:17 AM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (glen matejcek)
3. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (MLWynn@aol.com)
5. 09:14 AM - electrical plug (Mike Welch)
6. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:00 AM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
8. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:12 AM - Re: electrical plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:50 AM - Re: electrical plug (Mike Welch)
11. 12:33 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
12. 01:13 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:34 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
14. 03:57 PM - Re: electrical plug (Mike Welch)
15. 06:38 PM - Re: electrical plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:39 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 08:15 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
18. 08:19 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
19. 08:47 PM - Endurance Buss Diode - Heat Sink Question (jvolkober)
20. 09:44 PM - Re: electrical plug (Mike Welch)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Michael,
In a word: No.
Using a right angle adapter (or a right angle plug) won't make any detectable
difference, so use whatever is convenient.
The ACS price seems rather alarming -your local electronics supplier should be
able to come up with something for a lot less. Here in the UK my local supplier
lists suitable adaptors and plugs from (the equivalent of) a couple of dollars...
Even top price ones like this:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=7122920&cm_vc=prev_uk
are still a lot less, which is quite surprising as I often order from ACS as the
price and availability is vastly better than I can get in the UK even with the
transport and tax included.
One thing to watch; whether you choose a a new plug or an adapter make sure you
get the 50 ohm version. RF standard is 50 Ohm, but Video uses an almost identical
75 ohm connector with a slightly smaller inner pin.
Hope that helps
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316842#316842
Message 2
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Subject: | RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
HI All-
A couple observations-
You've got me thinking about a gadget for the chapter. The first thing
that comes to mind is to substitute cheap AGM batteries from Batteries Plus
(or wherever) for the car batteries. They'd be cheaper, lighter, and dump
current better than the plain flooded cell batteries.
This leads to the thought of using cast off batteries from Bob's
one-each-year-or-two battery replacement scheme, especially since that's
what I'll be doing once I get flying. If one made a cart that wasn't
physically tailored to a specific type of battery, they could use whatever
batteries were surplussed on the field.
The last item is that another group I'm part of was given a 'cast off'
motorized scooter chair. A ground power cord was added, and viola! A
self-powered ground power cart that has enough energy to run the avionics
all day and yet crank a couple of really large engines repeatedly without
showing any signs of stress. As a side bennie, the scooter came with a
tailored smart charger that can be left on continuously, making charge
state mx trivial. The scooter has two 12v AGM's, so whatever voltage
switching arrangement were derived could be applied here as well. Given
all the ads on the tube for 'free' mobility scooters, it seems like there
might be a significant secondary market for the things.
FWIW-
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Good Morning Bill,
That which you have shown is, as you say, an adapter. The higher priced
version is a right angle connector, not an adapter.
The adapter has a slightly higher, though still minimal, loss involved. It
means that there are two connections involved in lieu of one and the right
angle connector generally has a slightly smaller profile than does a
connector and an adapter.
Make any sense at all?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/24/2010 5:26:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Billandsue@billbell.co.uk writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill & Sue"
<Billandsue@billbell.co.uk>
Michael,
In a word: No.
Using a right angle adapter (or a right angle plug) won't make any
detectable difference, so use whatever is convenient.
The ACS price seems rather alarming -your local electronics supplier
should be able to come up with something for a lot less. Here in the UK my local
supplier lists suitable adaptors and plugs from (the equivalent of) a
couple of dollars...
Even top price ones like this:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct
&R=7122920&cm_vc=prev_uk
are still a lot less, which is quite surprising as I often order from ACS
as the price and availability is vastly better than I can get in the UK
even with the transport and tax included.
One thing to watch; whether you choose a a new plug or an adapter make
sure you get the 50 ohm version. RF standard is 50 Ohm, but Video uses an
almost identical 75 ohm connector with a slightly smaller inner pin.
Hope that helps
Bill
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Thanks for everyone's input on this. I cruising the aeroelectric site, I
found that Bob N has an instruction sheet on using adaptors to make a
permanent right angle connector:
_http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html_
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html)
I can't imagine he would post this unless it was a perfectly viable
approach to the problem.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
Message 5
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List members=2C
I'm in the process of wiring all the instruments and electrical goodies f
or my plane.
I have two areas where all the electrical items are located=3B an overhead
panel & my
front panel/console.
The overhead panel has the ignition switch=2C various light switches=2C a
ll circuit breakers=2C
etc. (the power supply center) The front panel/console has the Icom A200
com radio=2C
King transponder=2C Dynon D10A=2C Garmin 296=2C airspeed and vert. climb=2C
and various engine
gages.
Here's what I'm after=3B what would be a standard=2C recommended male/fe
male plug
combination to send the electrical power from the overhead panel to the fro
nt panel?
I have considered the DB9 plug=2C but I don't know if it could handle the
5 amps (max)
of the Icom or the King KT76. I don't think any of the other devices would
be a problem
for the DB9=2C it's just the Icom A200 and the transponder I'm concerned wi
th.
I looked on Digi-key=2C but it is difficult to know where to begin. With
40=2C000 plugs=2C I can't see
the forest for the trees.
I think the best would be a robust=2C say...12 pin=2C locking Molex m/f p
lug and recepticle=2C
typically like a standard automotive wiring harness connection. Something
like this=2C but in
wiring harness style=3B
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-N
D
Thanks for any guidance=2C Mike Welch
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
At 10:25 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>Thanks for everyone's input on this. I cruising the aeroelectric
>site, I found that Bob N has an instruction sheet on using adaptors
>to make a permanent right angle connector:
>
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html
>
>I can't imagine he would post this unless it was a perfectly viable
>approach to the problem.
It's one approach that tolerates an extra joint in the
system . . . a low risk decision. It also exploits
ready availability of commercial off the shelf parts.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
do not archive
I can't find the info Bob is directing me to.
Any help would be appreciated.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/24/2010 01:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 12:18 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> A thought on the battery cart. I have a tig welder that has jumpers
>> for various settings that used welding cable with male ends on it as
>> jumpers. The females are mounted in a panel and the only time there
>> might be an exposed connector would be if someone left a jumper end
>> dangling.
>
> Yeah . . . I considered that kind of device. They're pretty
> pricey. Take a look at the hammer-n-tongs approach and see
> what you think.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 08:11 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
><aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
>HI All-
>
>A couple observations-
>
>You've got me thinking about a gadget for the chapter. The first thing
>that comes to mind is to substitute cheap AGM batteries from Batteries Plus
>(or wherever) for the car batteries. They'd be cheaper, lighter, and dump
>current better than the plain flooded cell batteries.
>
>This leads to the thought of using cast off batteries from Bob's
>one-each-year-or-two battery replacement scheme, especially since that's
>what I'll be doing once I get flying. If one made a cart that wasn't
>physically tailored to a specific type of battery, they could use whatever
>batteries were surplussed on the field.
The last battery cart project I observed was more of a
"battery box" approach. The builder hand two-wheel hand-
trucks and decided not to dedicate a set of wheels and
handle to the ground start battery. He built hand-truck
friendly box that held two batteries and a Schumacher automatic
charger. His project was 24 v only so didn't need a
battery 'switch'. I finished development of the geometry
for a 6.5 x 7.5 inch assembly that could be made of
1/8" tempered Masonite, Lexan, or other hard/durable material.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/7000_Battery_Cart_Switch.pdf
This design is based on hand-knobs I have on hand
with 1/2-13 threaded inserts. The battery leads are
brought to 1/2-13 x 2" brass bolts and associated
hardware in a rectangular pattern. The spacings have
been adjusted so that a sandwich of 1/8" masonite
sheets, 1/8" x 1" aluminum bars can be placed over
the studs in only two positions. The exposed
ends of the bars are rather well guarded against
accidental shorts on the studs while changing voltage
setting. When the hand-knobs are in place, all exposed
"hot" metal is pretty well covered and/or recessed.
I'm headed to Wichita for a few days but I'll work
up a schematic for a system with a charger and
AC inverter built in. Charging with solar cells
is problematic unless one is considering some
really hefty devices like . . .
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html
along with electronics suitable for SVLA battery
maintenance. If folks are interested in this
design, I can supply the hand-knobs and bus
bars. I have access to a digital mill so it wouldn't
be hard to build a precision drill fixture that
precisely located the holes. Perhaps I could supply
a "kit" of knobs, pilot drilled bus bar material,
and a stack of 1/8" sheets also pilot drilled.
I think you can get the brass hardware from Lowes/
HomeDepot style big-box stores.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: electrical plug |
>
>
> I think the best would be a robust, say...12 pin, locking Molex
> m/f plug and recepticle,
>typically like a standard automotive wiring harness
>connection. Something like this, but in
>wiring harness style;
>
><http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-ND>http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-ND
>
Those would work but they ARE sheet metal pins. You can
parallel pins in a D-sub to share loads. If the vast majority
of your circuits are d-sub friendly, then perhaps you'd need
only to beef up a few pathways in the connector. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Bob=2C
Thanks for the help. Your suggestion of sharing pins is a good one. I h
adn't considered
that. Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin? If so=2C I think this
could be a simple
answer=2C because I only need to double up just a couple of pins.
Thanks=2C Mike
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Bob,
A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$
combination scale from my suggestion.
My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for
crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January
looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped.
That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an
improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars into
a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt connection and
the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With the angle between
them such that one connection must be broken before the other could be
made. As I was writing I had another thought. Just use one bar with 2
holes, one to make the 12 and the other to make the 24. This would
reduce the number of loose parts to the 2 knobs on the studs the jumper
moves between, assuming the 3rd knob is only loosened to allow the
jumper to swing. Another evolution occurred as I was writing the above.
The single bar could have U shaped cutouts, rather than holes, that
would allow the jumper to slide under the appropriate knob and eliminate
the need for the knobs to become loose parts.
Please pardon the "stream of consciousness" rambling of the letter.
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/24/2010 01:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 12:18 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> A thought on the battery cart. I have a tig welder that has jumpers
>> for various settings that used welding cable with male ends on it as
>> jumpers. The females are mounted in a panel and the only time there
>> might be an exposed connector would be if someone left a jumper end
>> dangling.
>
> Yeah . . . I considered that kind of device. They're pretty
> pricey. Take a look at the hammer-n-tongs approach and see
> what you think.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 02:29 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$
>combination scale from my suggestion.
>
>My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for
>crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January
>looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped.
>
>That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an
>improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars
>into a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt
>connection and the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With
>the angle between them such that one connection must be broken
>before the other could be made. As I was writing I had another
>thought. Just use one bar with 2 holes, one to make the 12 and the
>other to make the 24. This would reduce the number of loose parts to
>the 2 knobs on the studs the jumper moves between, assuming the 3rd
>knob is only loosened to allow the jumper to swing. Another
>evolution occurred as I was writing the above. The single bar could
>have U shaped cutouts, rather than holes, that would allow the
>jumper to slide under the appropriate knob and eliminate the need
>for the knobs to become loose parts.
check your configurations for failure modes and
potential for erroneous connections. my goal was
to make it impossible to install a jumper in the
wrong location that might short a battery.
Hence the non-square pattern for the 4 posts and
the single assembly of jumpers that guards
most of the bare surfaces.
As long as you can see the labels, then any way
you install it will produce either 12 or 24 v with
no gottchas. If you flip it over, the 12v still works
but the 24 volt would be inert.
I like putting the bars down over studs with a contiguous
hole as opposed to a slot. More surface area in contact
with the stud.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable after
further analysis.
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/24/2010 03:11 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 02:29 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$
>> combination scale from my suggestion.
>>
>> My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for
>> crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January
>> looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped.
>>
>> That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an
>> improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars
>> into a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt
>> connection and the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With the
>> angle between them such that one connection must be broken before the
>> other could be made. As I was writing I had another thought. Just use
>> one bar with 2 holes, one to make the 12 and the other to make the 24.
>> This would reduce the number of loose parts to the 2 knobs on the
>> studs the jumper moves between, assuming the 3rd knob is only loosened
>> to allow the jumper to swing. Another evolution occurred as I was
>> writing the above. The single bar could have U shaped cutouts, rather
>> than holes, that would allow the jumper to slide under the appropriate
>> knob and eliminate the need for the knobs to become loose parts.
>
> check your configurations for failure modes and
> potential for erroneous connections. my goal was
> to make it impossible to install a jumper in the
> wrong location that might short a battery.
> Hence the non-square pattern for the 4 posts and
> the single assembly of jumpers that guards
> most of the bare surfaces.
>
> As long as you can see the labels, then any way
> you install it will produce either 12 or 24 v with
> no gottchas. If you flip it over, the 12v still works
> but the 24 volt would be inert.
>
> I like putting the bars down over studs with a contiguous
> hole as opposed to a slot. More surface area in contact
> with the stud.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 14
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> Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin?
Bob=2C
To answer my own question=2C I did some research on DB15 plugs=2C and yes
=2C they
appear to be able 5A per pin=2C according to one manufacturer.
I think I'll go with the DB9=2C and combine two pins for the Icom and the
King transponder.
The rest of the pins should be just fine!
Thanks again=2C Bob
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At 05:52 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
> > Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin?
>
>Bob,
>
> To answer my own question, I did some research on DB15 plugs, and yes, they
>appear to be able 5A per pin, according to one manufacturer.
>
> I think I'll go with the DB9, and combine two pins for the Icom
> and the King transponder.
>The rest of the pins should be just fine!
Do grounds go through this connector too?
They need to be as robust as the power
feeder pins. Also, it's common practice with
any new design to have spare pins in any
connector to allow for future expansion
without having to re-wire a connector.
We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares.
Suggest you consider a larger connector
especially if you need to add grounds too.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
>I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable
>after further analysis.
I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with
the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture
but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass
and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks.
Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Bob,
For your consideration.
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/24/2010 08:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable
>> after further analysis.
>
> I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with
> the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture
> but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass
> and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks.
> Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Clearly, designing can't be hurried. Had another thought after I sent
the drawing. The jumpers could be connected with an insulated bar
connected where the insulated handles are and then break before make is
assured and the mode change only requires moving a the handle mounted on
the insulated bar, and of course loosening/tightening the "nuts".
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/24/2010 08:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable
>> after further analysis.
>
> I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with
> the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture
> but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass
> and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks.
> Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Endurance Buss Diode - Heat Sink Question |
I am using the Z-13 architecture. This calls for a diode between the main bus
and the endurance bus. I am planning on keeping the endurance bus at less than
8 amps. B&C offers a diodes with heat sinks that appear to fit this use.
One on a heat sink that is about 1" by 3", the other on a heat sink twice that
size. The first for up to 8 watts, I believe and the second for up to 15 watts.
Is the small sufficient for my use?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316924#316924
Message 20
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> I think I'll go with the DB9=2C and combine two pins for the Icom and th
e King transponder.
> Do grounds go through this connector too?
> They need to be as robust as the power
> feeder pins. Also=2C it's common practice with
>any new design to have spare pins in any
>connector to allow for future expansion
>without having to re-wire a connector.
>We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares.
>Suggest you consider a larger connector
>especially if you need to add grounds too.
> Bob . . .
Hi Bob=2C
Yes=2C I plan on running the ground thru the DB connector. I was going t
o allocate
four pins to supply the ground connection for the front panel. My plan is
the main ground
wire be #12AWG=2C leading down to the 4-way split to the (4ea) #16AWG solde
red to each pin.
The recepticle connector then gets the same treatment for ground=2C i.e.(4e
a) #16AWG back to
#12AWG=2C with the ground wire terminating at a buss bar.
Since I mentioned DB9 earlier=2C I just left that plug in the conversatio
n. The fact is=2C after
counting and leaving a couple of pins as spares=2C I am actually getting a
DB15.
The pin allocation was planned to be this=3B
After using two pins each for the Icom and the King transponder=2C one each
for the Dynon and
Garmin 296=2C and four for the ground=2C this makes ten pins so far. Using
one pin to light the
instrument lights=2C and one for some super tiny current drawers (like the
Dynon alarm circuit
you drew for me)=2C I'm left with at least three spares. I could even incl
ude the Dynon alarm
power in with the instrument lights=2C and be left with 4 extra pins.
Thanks for your help=2C Bob.
Mike Welch
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