AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 10/24/10


Total Messages Posted: 20



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:25 AM - Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (Bill & Sue)
     2. 06:17 AM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (glen matejcek)
     3. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (BobsV35B@aol.com)
     4. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (MLWynn@aol.com)
     5. 09:14 AM - electrical plug (Mike Welch)
     6. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 11:00 AM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
     8. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 11:12 AM - Re: electrical plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 11:50 AM - Re: electrical plug (Mike Welch)
    11. 12:33 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
    12. 01:13 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 01:34 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
    14. 03:57 PM - Re: electrical plug (Mike Welch)
    15. 06:38 PM - Re: electrical plug (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 06:39 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 08:15 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
    18. 08:19 PM - Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart (rayj)
    19. 08:47 PM - Endurance Buss Diode - Heat Sink Question (jvolkober)
    20. 09:44 PM - Re: electrical plug (Mike Welch)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:25:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings
    From: "Bill &amp; Sue" <Billandsue@billbell.co.uk>
    Michael, In a word: No. Using a right angle adapter (or a right angle plug) won't make any detectable difference, so use whatever is convenient. The ACS price seems rather alarming -your local electronics supplier should be able to come up with something for a lot less. Here in the UK my local supplier lists suitable adaptors and plugs from (the equivalent of) a couple of dollars... Even top price ones like this: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=7122920&cm_vc=prev_uk are still a lot less, which is quite surprising as I often order from ACS as the price and availability is vastly better than I can get in the UK even with the transport and tax included. One thing to watch; whether you choose a a new plug or an adapter make sure you get the 50 ohm version. RF standard is 50 Ohm, but Video uses an almost identical 75 ohm connector with a slightly smaller inner pin. Hope that helps Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316842#316842


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:17:25 AM PST US
    From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
    Subject: RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    HI All- A couple observations- You've got me thinking about a gadget for the chapter. The first thing that comes to mind is to substitute cheap AGM batteries from Batteries Plus (or wherever) for the car batteries. They'd be cheaper, lighter, and dump current better than the plain flooded cell batteries. This leads to the thought of using cast off batteries from Bob's one-each-year-or-two battery replacement scheme, especially since that's what I'll be doing once I get flying. If one made a cart that wasn't physically tailored to a specific type of battery, they could use whatever batteries were surplussed on the field. The last item is that another group I'm part of was given a 'cast off' motorized scooter chair. A ground power cord was added, and viola! A self-powered ground power cart that has enough energy to run the avionics all day and yet crank a couple of really large engines repeatedly without showing any signs of stress. As a side bennie, the scooter came with a tailored smart charger that can be left on continuously, making charge state mx trivial. The scooter has two 12v AGM's, so whatever voltage switching arrangement were derived could be applied here as well. Given all the ads on the tube for 'free' mobility scooters, it seems like there might be a significant secondary market for the things. FWIW- Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:36:45 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings
    Good Morning Bill, That which you have shown is, as you say, an adapter. The higher priced version is a right angle connector, not an adapter. The adapter has a slightly higher, though still minimal, loss involved. It means that there are two connections involved in lieu of one and the right angle connector generally has a slightly smaller profile than does a connector and an adapter. Make any sense at all? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 10/24/2010 5:26:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Billandsue@billbell.co.uk writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill & Sue" <Billandsue@billbell.co.uk> Michael, In a word: No. Using a right angle adapter (or a right angle plug) won't make any detectable difference, so use whatever is convenient. The ACS price seems rather alarming -your local electronics supplier should be able to come up with something for a lot less. Here in the UK my local supplier lists suitable adaptors and plugs from (the equivalent of) a couple of dollars... Even top price ones like this: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct &R=7122920&cm_vc=prev_uk are still a lot less, which is quite surprising as I often order from ACS as the price and availability is vastly better than I can get in the UK even with the transport and tax included. One thing to watch; whether you choose a a new plug or an adapter make sure you get the 50 ohm version. RF standard is 50 Ohm, but Video uses an almost identical 75 ohm connector with a slightly smaller inner pin. Hope that helps Bill


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:29:27 AM PST US
    From: MLWynn@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings
    Thanks for everyone's input on this. I cruising the aeroelectric site, I found that Bob N has an instruction sheet on using adaptors to make a permanent right angle connector: _http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html_ (http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html) I can't imagine he would post this unless it was a perfectly viable approach to the problem. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Finishing San Ramon, CA


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:14:42 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: electrical plug
    List members=2C I'm in the process of wiring all the instruments and electrical goodies f or my plane. I have two areas where all the electrical items are located=3B an overhead panel & my front panel/console. The overhead panel has the ignition switch=2C various light switches=2C a ll circuit breakers=2C etc. (the power supply center) The front panel/console has the Icom A200 com radio=2C King transponder=2C Dynon D10A=2C Garmin 296=2C airspeed and vert. climb=2C and various engine gages. Here's what I'm after=3B what would be a standard=2C recommended male/fe male plug combination to send the electrical power from the overhead panel to the fro nt panel? I have considered the DB9 plug=2C but I don't know if it could handle the 5 amps (max) of the Icom or the King KT76. I don't think any of the other devices would be a problem for the DB9=2C it's just the Icom A200 and the transponder I'm concerned wi th. I looked on Digi-key=2C but it is difficult to know where to begin. With 40=2C000 plugs=2C I can't see the forest for the trees. I think the best would be a robust=2C say...12 pin=2C locking Molex m/f p lug and recepticle=2C typically like a standard automotive wiring harness connection. Something like this=2C but in wiring harness style=3B http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-N D Thanks for any guidance=2C Mike Welch


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:50:10 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings
    At 10:25 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote: >Thanks for everyone's input on this. I cruising the aeroelectric >site, I found that Bob N has an instruction sheet on using adaptors >to make a permanent right angle connector: > ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html > >I can't imagine he would post this unless it was a perfectly viable >approach to the problem. It's one approach that tolerates an extra joint in the system . . . a low risk decision. It also exploits ready availability of commercial off the shelf parts. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:00:53 AM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    do not archive I can't find the info Bob is directing me to. Any help would be appreciated. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 10/24/2010 01:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 12:18 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote: >> >> Bob, >> >> A thought on the battery cart. I have a tig welder that has jumpers >> for various settings that used welding cable with male ends on it as >> jumpers. The females are mounted in a panel and the only time there >> might be an exposed connector would be if someone left a jumper end >> dangling. > > Yeah . . . I considered that kind of device. They're pretty > pricey. Take a look at the hammer-n-tongs approach and see > what you think. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:10:11 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    At 08:11 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote: ><aerobubba@earthlink.net> > >HI All- > >A couple observations- > >You've got me thinking about a gadget for the chapter. The first thing >that comes to mind is to substitute cheap AGM batteries from Batteries Plus >(or wherever) for the car batteries. They'd be cheaper, lighter, and dump >current better than the plain flooded cell batteries. > >This leads to the thought of using cast off batteries from Bob's >one-each-year-or-two battery replacement scheme, especially since that's >what I'll be doing once I get flying. If one made a cart that wasn't >physically tailored to a specific type of battery, they could use whatever >batteries were surplussed on the field. The last battery cart project I observed was more of a "battery box" approach. The builder hand two-wheel hand- trucks and decided not to dedicate a set of wheels and handle to the ground start battery. He built hand-truck friendly box that held two batteries and a Schumacher automatic charger. His project was 24 v only so didn't need a battery 'switch'. I finished development of the geometry for a 6.5 x 7.5 inch assembly that could be made of 1/8" tempered Masonite, Lexan, or other hard/durable material. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/7000_Battery_Cart_Switch.pdf This design is based on hand-knobs I have on hand with 1/2-13 threaded inserts. The battery leads are brought to 1/2-13 x 2" brass bolts and associated hardware in a rectangular pattern. The spacings have been adjusted so that a sandwich of 1/8" masonite sheets, 1/8" x 1" aluminum bars can be placed over the studs in only two positions. The exposed ends of the bars are rather well guarded against accidental shorts on the studs while changing voltage setting. When the hand-knobs are in place, all exposed "hot" metal is pretty well covered and/or recessed. I'm headed to Wichita for a few days but I'll work up a schematic for a system with a charger and AC inverter built in. Charging with solar cells is problematic unless one is considering some really hefty devices like . . . http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html along with electronics suitable for SVLA battery maintenance. If folks are interested in this design, I can supply the hand-knobs and bus bars. I have access to a digital mill so it wouldn't be hard to build a precision drill fixture that precisely located the holes. Perhaps I could supply a "kit" of knobs, pilot drilled bus bar material, and a stack of 1/8" sheets also pilot drilled. I think you can get the brass hardware from Lowes/ HomeDepot style big-box stores. Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:12:26 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: electrical plug
    > > > I think the best would be a robust, say...12 pin, locking Molex > m/f plug and recepticle, >typically like a standard automotive wiring harness >connection. Something like this, but in >wiring harness style; > ><http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-ND>http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-ND > Those would work but they ARE sheet metal pins. You can parallel pins in a D-sub to share loads. If the vast majority of your circuits are d-sub friendly, then perhaps you'd need only to beef up a few pathways in the connector. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg Bob . . .


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:50:34 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: electrical plug
    Bob=2C Thanks for the help. Your suggestion of sharing pins is a good one. I h adn't considered that. Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin? If so=2C I think this could be a simple answer=2C because I only need to double up just a couple of pins. Thanks=2C Mike


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:33:04 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    Bob, A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$ combination scale from my suggestion. My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped. That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars into a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt connection and the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With the angle between them such that one connection must be broken before the other could be made. As I was writing I had another thought. Just use one bar with 2 holes, one to make the 12 and the other to make the 24. This would reduce the number of loose parts to the 2 knobs on the studs the jumper moves between, assuming the 3rd knob is only loosened to allow the jumper to swing. Another evolution occurred as I was writing the above. The single bar could have U shaped cutouts, rather than holes, that would allow the jumper to slide under the appropriate knob and eliminate the need for the knobs to become loose parts. Please pardon the "stream of consciousness" rambling of the letter. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 10/24/2010 01:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 12:18 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote: >> >> Bob, >> >> A thought on the battery cart. I have a tig welder that has jumpers >> for various settings that used welding cable with male ends on it as >> jumpers. The females are mounted in a panel and the only time there >> might be an exposed connector would be if someone left a jumper end >> dangling. > > Yeah . . . I considered that kind of device. They're pretty > pricey. Take a look at the hammer-n-tongs approach and see > what you think. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:13:13 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    At 02:29 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote: > >Bob, > >A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$ >combination scale from my suggestion. > >My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for >crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January >looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped. > >That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an >improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars >into a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt >connection and the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With >the angle between them such that one connection must be broken >before the other could be made. As I was writing I had another >thought. Just use one bar with 2 holes, one to make the 12 and the >other to make the 24. This would reduce the number of loose parts to >the 2 knobs on the studs the jumper moves between, assuming the 3rd >knob is only loosened to allow the jumper to swing. Another >evolution occurred as I was writing the above. The single bar could >have U shaped cutouts, rather than holes, that would allow the >jumper to slide under the appropriate knob and eliminate the need >for the knobs to become loose parts. check your configurations for failure modes and potential for erroneous connections. my goal was to make it impossible to install a jumper in the wrong location that might short a battery. Hence the non-square pattern for the 4 posts and the single assembly of jumpers that guards most of the bare surfaces. As long as you can see the labels, then any way you install it will produce either 12 or 24 v with no gottchas. If you flip it over, the 12v still works but the 24 volt would be inert. I like putting the bars down over studs with a contiguous hole as opposed to a slot. More surface area in contact with the stud. Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:34:31 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable after further analysis. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 10/24/2010 03:11 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 02:29 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote: >> >> Bob, >> >> A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$ >> combination scale from my suggestion. >> >> My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for >> crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January >> looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped. >> >> That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an >> improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars >> into a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt >> connection and the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With the >> angle between them such that one connection must be broken before the >> other could be made. As I was writing I had another thought. Just use >> one bar with 2 holes, one to make the 12 and the other to make the 24. >> This would reduce the number of loose parts to the 2 knobs on the >> studs the jumper moves between, assuming the 3rd knob is only loosened >> to allow the jumper to swing. Another evolution occurred as I was >> writing the above. The single bar could have U shaped cutouts, rather >> than holes, that would allow the jumper to slide under the appropriate >> knob and eliminate the need for the knobs to become loose parts. > > check your configurations for failure modes and > potential for erroneous connections. my goal was > to make it impossible to install a jumper in the > wrong location that might short a battery. > Hence the non-square pattern for the 4 posts and > the single assembly of jumpers that guards > most of the bare surfaces. > > As long as you can see the labels, then any way > you install it will produce either 12 or 24 v with > no gottchas. If you flip it over, the 12v still works > but the 24 volt would be inert. > > I like putting the bars down over studs with a contiguous > hole as opposed to a slot. More surface area in contact > with the stud. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:57:48 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: electrical plug
    > Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin? Bob=2C To answer my own question=2C I did some research on DB15 plugs=2C and yes =2C they appear to be able 5A per pin=2C according to one manufacturer. I think I'll go with the DB9=2C and combine two pins for the Icom and the King transponder. The rest of the pins should be just fine! Thanks again=2C Bob


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:38:32 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: electrical plug
    At 05:52 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote: > > Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin? > >Bob, > > To answer my own question, I did some research on DB15 plugs, and yes, they >appear to be able 5A per pin, according to one manufacturer. > > I think I'll go with the DB9, and combine two pins for the Icom > and the King transponder. >The rest of the pins should be just fine! Do grounds go through this connector too? They need to be as robust as the power feeder pins. Also, it's common practice with any new design to have spare pins in any connector to allow for future expansion without having to re-wire a connector. We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares. Suggest you consider a larger connector especially if you need to add grounds too. Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:39:59 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote: > >I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable >after further analysis. I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks. Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too. Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:15:58 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    Bob, For your consideration. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 10/24/2010 08:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote: >> >> I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable >> after further analysis. > > I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with > the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture > but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass > and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks. > Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too. > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:19:24 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
    Clearly, designing can't be hurried. Had another thought after I sent the drawing. The jumpers could be connected with an insulated bar connected where the insulated handles are and then break before make is assured and the mode change only requires moving a the handle mounted on the insulated bar, and of course loosening/tightening the "nuts". do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 10/24/2010 08:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote: >> >> I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable >> after further analysis. > > I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with > the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture > but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass > and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks. > Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too. > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:47:30 PM PST US
    Subject: Endurance Buss Diode - Heat Sink Question
    From: "jvolkober" <jvolkober@comcast.net>
    I am using the Z-13 architecture. This calls for a diode between the main bus and the endurance bus. I am planning on keeping the endurance bus at less than 8 amps. B&C offers a diodes with heat sinks that appear to fit this use. One on a heat sink that is about 1" by 3", the other on a heat sink twice that size. The first for up to 8 watts, I believe and the second for up to 15 watts. Is the small sufficient for my use? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316924#316924


    Message 20


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    Time: 09:44:54 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: electrical plug
    > I think I'll go with the DB9=2C and combine two pins for the Icom and th e King transponder. > Do grounds go through this connector too? > They need to be as robust as the power > feeder pins. Also=2C it's common practice with >any new design to have spare pins in any >connector to allow for future expansion >without having to re-wire a connector. >We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares. >Suggest you consider a larger connector >especially if you need to add grounds too. > Bob . . . Hi Bob=2C Yes=2C I plan on running the ground thru the DB connector. I was going t o allocate four pins to supply the ground connection for the front panel. My plan is the main ground wire be #12AWG=2C leading down to the 4-way split to the (4ea) #16AWG solde red to each pin. The recepticle connector then gets the same treatment for ground=2C i.e.(4e a) #16AWG back to #12AWG=2C with the ground wire terminating at a buss bar. Since I mentioned DB9 earlier=2C I just left that plug in the conversatio n. The fact is=2C after counting and leaving a couple of pins as spares=2C I am actually getting a DB15. The pin allocation was planned to be this=3B After using two pins each for the Icom and the King transponder=2C one each for the Dynon and Garmin 296=2C and four for the ground=2C this makes ten pins so far. Using one pin to light the instrument lights=2C and one for some super tiny current drawers (like the Dynon alarm circuit you drew for me)=2C I'm left with at least three spares. I could even incl ude the Dynon alarm power in with the instrument lights=2C and be left with 4 extra pins. Thanks for your help=2C Bob. Mike Welch




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