---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/15/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:30 AM - List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:25 AM - Re: Need a tips how best to validate wiring harness work (Howard M. Plevyak Jr.) 2. 10:05 AM - TCW product update, backup battery system accessory (bob-tcw) 3. 10:55 AM - Re: Recommend a digital multimeter? (Etienne Phillips) 4. 11:42 AM - Re: Recommend a digital multimeter? (rayj) 5. 05:17 PM - Capacitor for Rotax (agibeaut) 6. 07:48 PM - undervoltage lamps (davidbf@centurytel.net) 7. 08:03 PM - Re: Capacitor for Rotax (Ed Anderson) 8. 11:32 PM - Re: undervoltage lamps (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:47 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments... Dear Listers, I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ------------------------------------------------------- You are providing a great service. Thanks so very much. David L Keep up the good work! A great website - wish I'd found it earlier! Bob S Thanks for providing a site for information. Jim S Thanks again for providing a great service to our community! Alex M Thanks and keep up the good work! Robert B. Great forum! David S Thanks for providing the Kolb List for the last 12 years. John H Long time lurker, it's a great resource...many thanks. Ian C Your work and effort are greatly appreciated. Nicolas L Thank you very much for keeping the list going! Svein J Thank you for your support to the community. Valin T I am a long time subscriber and a slow builder because of work and two moves, but still enjoy the process and your list. CL M Thanks for providing this service. It can't be beat! Thomas W I'm no longer a builder or flier but I like to keep in touch with the List - which is the best organised list I've seen on the Internet. Gerry C Matt, you are doing a GREAT service to the community of KOLB Builders and Flyers. John B I've been flying for almost two years and still find these Lists as a great resource for information.....now I get to answer a question once-in-a-while too. Ralph C Thanks for this great service. Dale E I couldn't keep on building without the support I get from this List. Thomas S This is a great service to all of us. Michael W I am no longer actively building, but I really like to keep up with what's going on, and I especially like to follow Bob Nuckolls - and your RV-8. Terrence W I really appreciate your work and consider the lists to be a great value. Christopher R Thanks Matt for a great resource! Geoff T Many thanks for providing this service. I love it. William V One of the best Internet Deals going... Owen B Thanks for the great site. Danny S A valuable resource. George A Thanks for running a great list. Ted P ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:27 AM PST US From: "Howard M. Plevyak Jr." Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need a tips how best to validate wiring harness work David and Bob, Thanks for the tips on validating a wiring harness. Good to know I'm on the right track. Howard Glastar, Cincinnati, OH ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:06 AM PST US From: "bob-tcw" Subject: AeroElectric-List: TCW product update, backup battery system accessory Fellow builders, We are bringing out a new accessory that you should know about. Its a plug-in AC powered charger specifically designed for our IBBS system. This new charger lets you easily recharge and trickle charge an IBBS battery back-up system. The plug-in charger keeps an IBBS system topped off over the winter and fast charges it after yearly condition inspections. The details are available on our web site. www.tcwtech.com Thanks, Bob Newman RV-10 40176 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Recommend a digital multimeter? From: Etienne Phillips Hi Ralph In my experience, those cheap and nasty ones offer the best value for money. After I damaged my mid-range DMM (snapped the knob off), I replaced it with a cheapy, and have had twice the service life, maybe 1% less accuracy, and complete lack of concern for its well-being when chucking it into the tool box. I've gone through a single 9V battery in about 8 years, and the little beast keeps on going. Unlike my nice one. For what we do (if all you're doing is typical hobbyist stuff), the true-rms, computer-connectible, super gizmo is complete overkill. Something that can measure voltage, current (even if you have to change plugs for the different scales) and continuity will provide all the functionality that you'll ever need, and none of those require any sort of precision better than a few parts in a hundred. My 2c anyway! Etienne On 15 Nov 2010, at 6:32 AM, Ralph & Maria Finch wrote: > > I just discovered my faithful old Radio Shack DMM is wonky, the little scale > at the bottom of the LCD displays reads correctly between 0-30, but the > digits don't correspond. Time for a new DMM. > > I could just go back to the Shack and get whatever they have, but would like > to check here for a recommendation. Mr. Nuckolls, any advice? A brief > search using Google reveals many nifty new features in DMMs these days. > Anything an airplane builder should look for? > > Thanks, > Ralph Finch > Davis, California, USA > RV-9A QB-SA ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:54 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Recommend a digital multimeter? My solution is to have one GOOD meter for my bench, which I treat with TLC, and 1/2 dozen of the ultra cheap (<$5) from HF or RS. I'm able to have one at hand where ever I am and if I question what the cheap one says, I can bring out the good one. > http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html?utm_term=90899&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN On 11/14/2010 10:32 PM, Ralph & Maria Finch wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph& Maria Finch" > > I just discovered my faithful old Radio Shack DMM is wonky, the little scale > at the bottom of the LCD displays reads correctly between 0-30, but the > digits don't correspond. Time for a new DMM. > > I could just go back to the Shack and get whatever they have, but would like > to check here for a recommendation. Mr. Nuckolls, any advice? A brief > search using Google reveals many nifty new features in DMMs these days. > Anything an airplane builder should look for? > > Thanks, > Ralph Finch > Davis, California, USA > RV-9A QB-SA > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:08 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Capacitor for Rotax From: "agibeaut" Anyone know where I can buy the 22,000uF 25V capacitor listed on the Rotax wiring diagram? The price wanted by a Rotax service center seems a little outrageous. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319521#319521 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:40 PM PST US From: davidbf@centurytel.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: undervoltage lamps I had a recent failure that is prompting me to at least get a couple of idiot lights for indicators, tell me what you think. I have a FADEC system with dual alternators/batteries isolated. My main battery is an Odyssey PC680, charged by B&C standard alternator. Backup ess buss and primary FADEC battery is a 7 amp/h smaller battery charged by the B&C SD-8 alternator. Architecture is Z-14 with crowbar protection only on the 7 amp battery. For whatever reasoning I had 7 years ago this is what I was comfortable with...until now. On a recent pre-flight I had to charge the primary fadec battery(non starting) to get the engine to fire because it was low in voltage after using it to check awos, tune frequencies, etc. This had never happened before as I usually replace this battery annually. After starting & running while taxiing & before takeoff it is standard to remove alternately primary & secondary busses from engine as a verification of buss operation. Everything was ok so after the flight I replaced the battery. I have voltage readout on the Dynon but didn't notice any abnormality (but there could have been). Next flight, flew 90 miles to Grand Rapids for the day, no problem on the way down. After departure and telling departure control I was going to 6500 feet and arriving there I noticed my Dynon showing a red bar & message indicating the unit was powering down. Also happening was a red fadec warning light followed by a sputtering engine, I was losing power!! I immediately noticed (because the dynon red bar had happened before) that I had inadvertently put the primary alternator switch to the "battery only" position, the main alternator was not on. This engine sputtering was also telling me the primary fadec battery was in a discharging state. Both batteries were being operated with no method of charging either battery. Even though I have voltage readout on the dynon for both busses, I was lax in looking at it. Kicking in the main bat/alt switch brought everything back to seeming normal, but I knew I still had a primary battery/charging problem. After landing & the next! day I saw that my SD-8 was not coupled and was spinning inside--the coupler had broken. I now have parts on order & that should fix that problem. Questions: 1) What would I need to get a warning light to indicate I do not have a charging mode on the batteries? Is an LR-3 system the only choice? 2) The bat/alt 2 position switch per Z-14 has bitten me more than once, I'm not sure why I don't just use a bat/alt single position switch? What is the purpose of the bat only postition? When would I really need this? 3) The caveat of the fadec is a 9 volt operating threshold--it is what it is---should I have a way of joining busses in a real emergency to couple all available current to fadec? Dave Ford Cadillac, MI RV6 flying RV10 building ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:43 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Capacitor for Rotax Here is a source with some as cheap as $5.00 http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=22%2c000uF+25V Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "agibeaut" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Capacitor for Rotax > > Anyone know where I can buy the 22,000uF 25V capacitor listed on the Rotax > wiring diagram? The price wanted by a Rotax service center seems a little > outrageous. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319521#319521 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:21 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: undervoltage lamps > Even though I have voltage readout on the dynon for both busses, > I was lax in looking at it. Kicking in the main bat/alt switch > brought everything back to seeming normal, but I knew I still had a > primary battery/charging problem. After landing & the next! Have you availed yourself of a copy of the AeroElectric Connection. In the chapters on electrical system instrumentation and system reliability we emphasize the need for ACTIVE NOTIFICATION OF LOW VOLTAGE. EVERY one of the Z-figures illustrates this feature. > > day I saw that my SD-8 was not coupled and was spinning > inside--the coupler had broken. I now have parts on order & that > should fix that problem. > >Questions: > >1) What would I need to get a warning light to indicate I do not >have a charging mode on the batteries? Is an LR-3 system the only choice? A low voltage warning light. Preferably bright and flashes at 2-3 times per second and located to be easily seen by the pilot. It is automatically preflight tested because the light(s) come on as soon as battery switches are on and before the engine is started. Once alternator(s) pick up the loads, the lights go out. >2) The bat/alt 2 position switch per Z-14 has bitten me more than >once, I'm not sure why I don't just use a bat/alt single position switch? This is explained in the 'Connection. The switch is a way to emulate the functionality of the split-rocker used on most light singles for over 40 years. It allows you to run battery only for ground ops without burdening the battery with field current drain of a non-rotating alternator. This configuration is no different than what has flown on tens of thousands of TC aircraft. Since you're flying an electrically dependent engine, the need for active notification of low voltage is still more critical and the 'reliability' of dual electrical systems can be compromised without it as you've discovered. I don't have any inventory on LV warning right now but you should have one on EACH system before you fly again. Check with Eric at http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproductsfiles/LV_Annunciator%20Manual.pdf and see if he can fix you up. > What is the purpose of the bat only postition? When would I > really need this? >3) The caveat of the fadec is a 9 volt operating threshold--it is >what it is---should I have a way of joining busses in a real >emergency to couple all available current to fadec? The point of having 4 pouwer sources in Z-14 is to NOT have an emergency. What's your game plan for detecting and dealing with any single failure? What's you plan for maintaining both batteries at some capacity that you've established as a design goal? 12v lead acid batteries are 100% used up at 10v. If you find yourself down to this voltage level and wondering what to do next . . . you've really missed the opportunity offered by a Z-14 system combined with a preventative maintenance program that insures this will never happen. 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