Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:06 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:13 AM - test (Dan Billingsley)
2. 08:28 AM - Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments (Jeff Page)
3. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments (B Tomm)
4. 10:12 AM - Re: SD8 alt connection (Brooks Wolfe)
5. 02:18 PM - Re: SD8 alt connection (user9253)
6. 06:02 PM - Re: SD8 alt connection (gonzo24)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have
helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments |
Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
Figure 2-3 amps of the original concept on top
of that and one COULD consider an e-bus load of
perhaps 13 amps. Okay, the feeders had to take
a big jump in AWG. Hence the fat feeder
for alternate feed path. If we're to observe
the reverence for crash safety and limit always
hot feeders to 7A or less, then the S704 relay
gets added and the fuse sizes go up to accommodate
the new definition of endurance loads.
This illustrates the thinking behind the disparity
between normal and alternate feed wire sizes.
Whether the feed is via the diode or the relay, the load is the same.
Shouldn't the wire capacity be the same ?
> Previously, I was planning to use 14 awg and * 6 inches or less wire,
> without any fuses for both paths.
How did you arrive at this? When the battery and main
bus fuse blocks are immediately adjacent to each other,
then the no-fuse, 16AWG feeders (or even smaller
as described above) through the diode fits legacy
design goals. But the feeder from the battery
bus to the e-bus is a long conductor that classically
gets either:
(1) 7A or less protection for skinny feeder and no
remote mini-contactor or
(2) a larger feeder and contactor per Z-32. The larger
14AWG wire is appropriate for low voltage drop on longer
wires good for up to 15A and rear mounted batteries. If
your battery is up front, that wire could comfortably
drop to 12AWG.
My battery will be on the front of the firewall. I planned the
connections between busses, contactors and relays all to be less than
6", so I originally omitted fuses. I am minimizing my inventory by
purchasing only 14, 18 and 22 gauge wire, since the numbers worked out
that I would rarely need 16 and 20 gauge wire. So the 16 awg feeders
changed to 14 awg.
Since my busses will be fuse blocks, it is quite easy to use one of
the fuse positions to feed the bus. However, I would prefer fewer
connections if you think the additional fuses are not needed.
My "Endurance" bus grew. I will be flying IFR. My Plan B for a main
alternator failure is to have a sufficient secondary alternator to
continue to power one Dynon Skyview screen, a Garmin 430W, audio panel
and instrument lights and some indicators. This could be 10A, peaking
to 16A during transmissions. Rather than a load meter, the low
voltage indicator will confirm that the secondary alternator is
carrying the load. The dark and stormy night equipment is my Plan C.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments |
Jeff,
If I recall correctly and Bob may confirm, the SD8 aux alt actually puts out
up to 10mp at the rpm we fly. Further, in a main alternator out scenario,
this is to be matched to the continuous draw of your minimum equipment list.
The surge current for transmitting etc can come from the battery.
Therefore, I would think that the SD8 will be sufficient as I'm doing
similar as you.
Bevan
RV7A wiring, not flying yet.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments
Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
Figure 2-3 amps of the original concept on top
of that and one COULD consider an e-bus load of
perhaps 13 amps. Okay, the feeders had to take
a big jump in AWG. Hence the fat feeder
for alternate feed path. If we're to observe
the reverence for crash safety and limit always
hot feeders to 7A or less, then the S704 relay
gets added and the fuse sizes go up to accommodate
the new definition of endurance loads.
This illustrates the thinking behind the disparity
between normal and alternate feed wire sizes.
Whether the feed is via the diode or the relay, the load is the same.
Shouldn't the wire capacity be the same ?
> Previously, I was planning to use 14 awg and * 6 inches or less wire,
> without any fuses for both paths.
How did you arrive at this? When the battery and main
bus fuse blocks are immediately adjacent to each other,
then the no-fuse, 16AWG feeders (or even smaller
as described above) through the diode fits legacy
design goals. But the feeder from the battery
bus to the e-bus is a long conductor that classically
gets either:
(1) 7A or less protection for skinny feeder and no
remote mini-contactor or
(2) a larger feeder and contactor per Z-32. The larger
14AWG wire is appropriate for low voltage drop on longer
wires good for up to 15A and rear mounted batteries. If
your battery is up front, that wire could comfortably
drop to 12AWG.
My battery will be on the front of the firewall. I planned the connections
between busses, contactors and relays all to be less than 6", so I
originally omitted fuses. I am minimizing my inventory by purchasing only
14, 18 and 22 gauge wire, since the numbers worked out that I would rarely
need 16 and 20 gauge wire. So the 16 awg feeders changed to 14 awg.
Since my busses will be fuse blocks, it is quite easy to use one of the fuse
positions to feed the bus. However, I would prefer fewer connections if you
think the additional fuses are not needed.
My "Endurance" bus grew. I will be flying IFR. My Plan B for a main
alternator failure is to have a sufficient secondary alternator to continue
to power one Dynon Skyview screen, a Garmin 430W, audio panel and instrument
lights and some indicators. This could be 10A, peaking to 16A during
transmissions. Rather than a load meter, the low voltage indicator will
confirm that the secondary alternator is carrying the load. The dark and
stormy night equipment is my Plan C.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alt connection |
Sure wish I'd read this a year or more ago. As Gonzo wrote above, I
followed the installation diagrams on the SD-8 and LR-3C to place a numbe
r
of devices on the pilot side of the firewall. This includes the SD-8's
voltage regulator, relay, capacitor, and crowbar OV module. On the main
side of the system, the LR-3 is also mounted on the pilot side of the
firewall. The hot battery bus, E-bus relay, current limiters, shunts,
inline fuses and fuselinks are in the engine bay. Moving everything to t
he
engine side would be a major hassle of working around the engine mount an
d
plumbing (I'd probably just remove the whole engine and mount assembly),
but
less of a hassle now than after it's flying, I suppose.
So, considering the devices above, what's my risk? Is it worth pulling th
e
motor off to consolidate all my electrical devices, or can I sleep at nig
ht
knowing that the items I do have inside the cabin are negligible risk? F
or
reference, my electrical system follows Z-13/8 precisely, except for the
B&C
LR-3 voltage regulator and no electronic ignition.
Brooks Wolfe
RV-7 -- Finishing details details
-------Original Message-------
From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
Most electrical devices that can not be shut off should be on the engine
side of
the firewall. And if practical, devices that can be shut off should also
be
on the engine side of the firewall. Look at each component of the
electrical
system and ask yourself, "If this device starts smoking, would I rather h
ave
it inside of the cockpit or outside, and how will I shut it off?" When
something
starts smoking inside of the cockpit, it will be difficult to know what
device
it is. Shutting off the master switch should remove power from almost
everything
inside of the cockpit.
It would be better to place the following components on the engine side o
f
the
firewall: Battery, Battery Contactor, Main Battery Bus, Essential Bus Rel
ay,
Voltage
Regulator, Capacitor, Alternator Relay
Joe
--------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alt connection |
Brooks,
I would sure hate to pull an engine to modify the electrical system. Would it
be much of a hassle to move the voltage regulator to the engine side and leave
the other items in that circuit where they are? The voltage regulator should
have adequate cooling. B&C must not think that their parts will fail. My RV-12,
that is built according to Van's instructions, has the voltage regulator
forward of the firewall, but the capacitor is in the cockpit.
An option is to add a relay in the engine compartment to shut off the AC output
of the dynamo. Perhaps Bob will comment on the feasibility of doing that.
The dynamo will be putting out a high voltage without a load.
There is an ideal way of doing things and there is a good-enough way. I do not
know where to draw the line. Many times I am tempted to take shortcuts. Then
I ask myself what is the best in the long run.
At least you have the main battery bus forward of the firewall. That is the
most dangerous component.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320379#320379
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alt connection |
Hello Bob,
As usual your answers are thought provoking, specific, and yet posed in such a
way to allow for builder interpretation to maintain a fault tolerant architecture.
Just to clarify, I have not routed any "fat" 2awg wires into the cockpit per your
written instructions for reduction of electrical noise issues. The only two
power leads coming through the firewall are... The Batt buss which is fed from
the + of the battery via a 14 awg wire. The main buss is fed off of the 60
A limiter fuse from the post opposite the B&C Alternator feed through a short
8 awg lead.
Thanks again for your thorough and timely response.
--------
RV-7a completed flown 700+ hrs sold
Rv-7 under construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320392#320392
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