Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: SD8 alt connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: SD8 alt connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Contributions Down By 17%... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments ()
7. 08:03 AM - Re: Contributions Down By 17%... (Mike Welch)
8. 09:23 AM - Noises in transmitted signals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:37 AM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (Ron Quillin)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:53 AM - Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor (Noel Loveys)
12. 11:56 AM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (Don Hudgeon)
13. 11:57 AM - Re: Source for fuselink sleeve? (jonlaury)
14. 12:04 PM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (Don Hudgeon)
15. 01:06 PM - Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor (jonlaury)
16. 01:08 PM - Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor (jonlaury)
17. 01:46 PM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (Noel Loveys)
18. 02:16 PM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (Ron Quillin)
19. 02:49 PM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: Source for fuselink sleeve? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 02:58 PM - Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 04:18 PM - Re: Noises in transmitted signals (RGent1224@aol.com)
24. 04:52 PM - peak loads for motors/pumps (Lincoln Keill)
25. 05:08 PM - Checklist for abnormal ops using Z-13/8 (Lincoln Keill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor |
At 02:37 PM 11/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>My Stby alternator energizes its contactor, per the attached drawing.
>How do I provide OV protection to the circuit with an OVM 14?
>
>Thanks,
>John
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/stby_alt_ov_protection_study_417.pdf
The drawing you posted won't work. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z11M.pdf
for an exemplar technique for adding ov protection to
an externally regulated alternator. No b-lead contactor
is necessary.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alt connection |
At 12:08 PM 11/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Sure wish I'd read this a year or more ago. As Gonzo wrote above, I
>followed the installation diagrams on the SD-8 and LR-3C to place a
>number of devices on the pilot side of the firewall. This includes
>the SD-8's voltage regulator, relay, capacitor, and crowbar OV
>module. On the main side of the system, the LR-3 is also mounted on
>the pilot side of the firewall. The hot battery bus, E-bus relay,
>current limiters, shunts, inline fuses and fuselinks are in the
>engine bay. Moving everything to the engine side would be a major
>hassle of working around the engine mount and plumbing (I'd probably
>just remove the whole engine and mount assembly), but less of a
>hassle now than after it's flying, I suppose.
>
>So, considering the devices above, what's my risk? Is it worth
>pulling the motor off to consolidate all my electrical devices, or
>can I sleep at night knowing that the items I do have inside the
>cabin are negligible risk? For reference, my electrical system
>follows Z-13/8 precisely, except for the B&C LR-3 voltage regulator
>and no electronic ignition.
No, don't rip up anything and re-configure. The risks
are low as most have to do with crash worthiness
for taking always-hot feeders long distances or through
firewalls. Just pay attention to support and insulation
of your always hot conductors.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 alt connection |
Hello Bob,
As usual your answers are thought provoking, specific, and yet posed
in such a way to allow for builder interpretation to maintain a fault
tolerant architecture.
Just to clarify, I have not routed any "fat" 2awg wires into the
cockpit per your written instructions for reduction of electrical
noise issues. The only two power leads coming through the firewall
are... The Batt buss which is fed from the + of the battery via a 14
awg wire. The main buss is fed off of the 60 A limiter fuse from the
post opposite the B&C Alternator feed through a short 8 awg lead.
Thanks again for your thorough and timely response.
Sounds good to me but not sure why you
added a limiter to the bus feeder. As long
as your firewall pass thru is well crafted,
that device will never be called upon to
act for its intended purpose.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments |
At 10:21 AM 11/21/2010, you wrote:
(Me from earlier post) This illustrates the
thinking behind the disparity between normal
and alternate feed wire sizes.
Whether the feed is via the diode or the relay, the load is the same.
Shouldn't the wire capacity be the same ?
Wire sizes may be based on a constellation of
considerations. The legacy convention for 22 AWG
on 5A breakers, 20AWG on 7A breakers, etc. is
EXCEEDINGLY conservative and produces a system
with low voltage drops and temperature rises.
In this special case, we're considering the RARE
but not-zero probability that the normal feed
path wire could also be a fusible link. If we
embrace the legacy policy of allowing wires of 6"
or less to burn as along as they don't put other
wires at risk, then the two short wires I've
shown can be smaller because their voltage drops
are short and their temperature rises very small.
The smaller the wire, the faster they'll fuse.
My battery will be on the front of the firewall. I planned the
connections between busses, contactors and relays all to be less than
6", so I originally omitted fuses. I am minimizing my inventory by
purchasing only 14, 18 and 22 gauge wire, since the numbers worked out
that I would rarely need 16 and 20 gauge wire. So the 16 awg feeders
changed to 14 awg.
I can send you a chunk of any other size . . . but
it would be better to go down as opposed to up
in size for the un-fused, short wires. 20AWG would
be fine. Use REAL PIDG terminals on these wires.
Since my busses will be fuse blocks, it is quite easy to use one of
the fuse positions to feed the bus. However, I would prefer fewer
connections if you think the additional fuses are not needed.
Okay, 20AWG and no fuses it is.
My "Endurance" bus grew. I will be flying IFR. My Plan B for a main
alternator failure is to have a sufficient secondary alternator to
continue to power one Dynon Skyview screen, a Garmin 430W, audio panel
and instrument lights and some indicators. This could be 10A, peaking
to 16A during transmissions. Rather than a load meter, the low
voltage indicator will confirm that the secondary alternator is
carrying the load. The dark and stormy night equipment is my Plan C.
Okay, does your SD-8 drive pad give you 4000 rpm
at engine red-line? Even then, you won't keep a low
voltage warning light OFF during endurance operations.
The SD-8 may be too small for your plan-b loads in
an un-limited endurance mode. You may have to up-size
the alternator or plan for using significant battery
energy to support the e-bus. This is STILL much better
than a battery-only scenario but might call for a
comfortable plan-b endurance of 1 hour or so. You'll
want to measure your REAL plan-b loads as soon as
all the goodies can be fired up.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Contributions Down By 17%... |
At 02:08 AM 11/22/2010, you wrote:
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 17%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising
income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to
keep the expenses paid.
Common folks. I know times are tough. I'm
having to harbor thoughts for cash flow management
right now that really @#$$ me off. THIS was
suppose to be a time for having lots of fun
designing new products, building airplanes
and showing my grandson how to use tools.
Economic conditions aside, the kind of $support$
needed from each of us to keep this system healthy
wouldn't take you and the wife out for a McD meal.
We can and should make adjustments to habits for
discretionary expenditures as our situations
dictate. But the List servers are where our grey matter
continues to grow, stays exercised and alert while
improving the odds of saving money elsewhere.
Keeping the List-Servers healthy give us all
a leg up for exploitation of a brighter
future. If you haven't done it yet, do it today.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments |
IMO the SD-8 works well for the main power out scenario. I have the same
setup, but with a G530. One needs to ask oneself how many primary power
blackouts will ye observe on dark and stormy nights in flight.
Murphy says, there will be at least one. If you fly one every week, your
system has real issues and your preparedness is terrible. That would
also mean your planning is also terrible.
I find that with my Dynon pulling a whopping 1 amp, and my SL30 sending
a VOR signal to the Dynon HSI, I can handle most stormy night
situations. That may mean diversion, but you already have a problem, so
you're diverting anyway, right? If you fly all the way home with a major
problem at night, we'll you're just accepting lots of risk. All of these
designs are based on getting you to safety, not transcontinental flight
after major power loss.
Early system planning is fantastic, but I find most folks over do it.
What is your mission? Are you flying the mail every night? Based on the
traffic I see at most airports at night, I'm glad I don't depend on them
for food. I'd be starving.
Have a good handheld WAAS GPS on board and keep the batteries fresh. I
use the True Flight job which does approaches nearly as well as the
Garmin (in a pinch of course). Turn all the unnecessary crap off. That's
most of it.
Recently I bought one of those head mounted lamps. They are fantastic
for that situation. Get the best one you can buy. The one I bought has
the red night light included. I find I use it all the time now.
Include some good cabin LED lights in your plan. Most cockpits are
poorly lighted for night operations. Get some good lighting that don't
draw much juice.
Most importantly have fun and good holiday.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 10:21 AM 11/21/2010, you wrote:
(Me from earlier post) This illustrates the
thinking behind the disparity between normal
and alternate feed wire sizes.
Whether the feed is via the diode or the relay, the load is the same.
Shouldn't the wire capacity be the same ?
Wire sizes may be based on a constellation of
considerations. The legacy convention for 22 AWG
on 5A breakers, 20AWG on 7A breakers, etc. is
EXCEEDINGLY conservative and produces a system
with low voltage drops and temperature rises.
In this special case, we're considering the RARE
but not-zero probability that the normal feed
path wire could also be a fusible link. If we
embrace the legacy policy of allowing wires of 6"
or less to burn as along as they don't put other
wires at risk, then the two short wires I've
shown can be smaller because their voltage drops
are short and their temperature rises very small.
The smaller the wire, the faster they'll fuse.
My battery will be on the front of the firewall. I planned the
connections between busses, contactors and relays all to be less than
6", so I originally omitted fuses. I am minimizing my inventory by
purchasing only 14, 18 and 22 gauge wire, since the numbers worked out
that I would rarely need 16 and 20 gauge wire. So the 16 awg feeders
changed to 14 awg.
I can send you a chunk of any other size . . . but
it would be better to go down as opposed to up
in size for the un-fused, short wires. 20AWG would
be fine. Use REAL PIDG terminals on these wires.
Since my busses will be fuse blocks, it is quite easy to use one of
the fuse positions to feed the bus. However, I would prefer fewer
connections if you think the additional fuses are not needed.
Okay, 20AWG and no fuses it is.
My "Endurance" bus grew. I will be flying IFR. My Plan B for a main
alternator failure is to have a sufficient secondary alternator to
continue to power one Dynon Skyview screen, a Garmin 430W, audio panel
and instrument lights and some indicators. This could be 10A, peaking
to 16A during transmissions. Rather than a load meter, the low
voltage indicator will confirm that the secondary alternator is
carrying the load. The dark and stormy night equipment is my Plan C.
Okay, does your SD-8 drive pad give you 4000 rpm
at engine red-line? Even then, you won't keep a low
voltage warning light OFF during endurance operations.
The SD-8 may be too small for your plan-b loads in
an un-limited endurance mode. You may have to up-size
the alternator or plan for using significant battery
energy to support the e-bus. This is STILL much better
than a battery-only scenario but might call for a
comfortable plan-b endurance of 1 hour or so. You'll
want to measure your REAL plan-b loads as soon as
all the goodies can be fired up.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 17%... |
> Keeping the List-Servers healthy give us all
> a leg up for exploitation of a brighter
> future. If you haven't done it yet=2C do it today.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob and members=2C
Having joined this group this last spring=2C I have found this forum to b
e
a fantastic resourse=3B much more than a mere "contribution" would suggest
.
The advice=2C assistance and circuitry alone make supporting this list a
mandatory act of just plain manners. How could we expect such valuable hel
p
and not feel a slight sense of obligation?
I have been given stuff for free (Allen Fulmer)=2C and I have given away
stuff at no charge
(Marvin). I have been supplied with circuitry=3B Joe Gore and you. I hav
e had various
discussions regarding electronics with Dennis Glaeser=2C Etienne=2C Stein
=2C and several others.
A few bucks toward the furtherment of this list is a minor request=2C at
least that's how
I see it.
Mike Welch
Message 8
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| Subject: | Noises in transmitted signals |
At 09:18 AM 11/23/2010, you wrote:
G`day Bob
I am wondering if you could help me with connecting my radio. I
have replaced an older Terra 960 navcom and PM 3000 intercom with
a new ICOM A210. I just used the original wiring to the PTT and
mic/headphone sockets. I eliminated the PM3000 intercom and am just
using the "built-in" intercom in the A210. None of these wires are shielded.
I have been using this setup for the past couple of months but the tower
tells me my readability is usually 3 with quite a bit of background noise.
I have a KitFox with a Rotax 912UL (80HP). I am using just one
coax lead from the original RAMI AV-534 VHF Antenna 118-136 MHz.
The other lead is just taped up.
I now want to make up a new harness and hopefully improve
readability/background noise.
You're struggling with the same problem that
tens of thousands of technicians have faced since
DeForest lit up his first audion.
The term "background noise" is indeterminate.
It could be ignition, wind noise, alternator
noise coming in through the bus, noise from
another accessory getting into signal pathways
(ground loops), etc.
EACH of these noise sources has its own peculiar
characteristic that the moderately experienced
technician will recognize IF he heard it . . . but
tower operators are not generally noteworthy
for their technical acumen nor are they expected
to be.
On many occasions, I've been amazed at a tower
operator's ability to get intelligence from some
of the worst sounding radios. I'm similarly
amazed at their patience when working with an
airplane plagued with trashy signals.
When is this noise noted? Are you in flight? On the
ground? Engine running?
Get a friend to help you. Have them sit in
the cockpit and give you the 1,2,3,4 routine
on a locally unused frequency while you stand
off with a hand held (ear phones on it if
you can) so YOU can listen to YOUR radio and
described what you hear. You might take the
rubber duck off the hand held so that you can
stand say 50 feet away but not overload the hand
held receiver.
Not only do you need to know the character of
the noise but the conditions under which it
occurs. After you get an auditory sample, describe
the nature of the noise and the conditions under
which it does or does not happen.
1. I was planning on using 22ga. shielded for all wiring.
I've never fixed a noise problem by adding shielded
wires to a harness that were not already in
place and in accordance with the manufacturer's
wiring diagrams.
2. Reinstalling the PM3000 intercom
Depends on what kind of noise and how it's
getting in . . . I wouldn't discount this idea
to zero . . . but it's quite low and probably
not necessary.
3. Possibly bringing the radio power feed with a
dedicated wire directly back to the battery. Would
this help with the noise issue??? Just my own idea!!
I'm a bit short tempered with folks who put
out products for airplanes and then suggest that
THEIR product performs "best" when wired directly
to the ship's battery. Either they did their
homework and the device can be installed like
everybody else's products . . . or they are
admitting a combination of ignorance or hiding
a known shortcoming in the product's design.
The Icom products do not suffer from the effects
of this human shortcoming . . . so no, you don't
need to move the power supply wires. We MIGHT
need to fix a noise source that comes in on those
wires but that's part of the investigation/
identification task described above.
Some years ago I published a diagram for hooking
a tape recorder to the output of a hand held so
that folks could record their own signals
single-handed. Nowadays, this probably needs
to be some sort of connection to an MP3 player
with dictation features.
You can set the hand held out away from the
airplane and rubber-band a dictation machine
to the speaker grille. In any case, THAT is
where you start before you chopping out any
wires.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Noises in transmitted signals |
At 09:19 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>You might take the
> rubber duck off the hand held so that you can
> stand say 50 feet away but not overload the hand
> held receiver.
Would this be advisable if one also wished to transmit and talk to
the operator in the aircraft?
I'm thinking not a good idea, except for receive only...
Ron Q.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Rev Q comments |
<snip>
>Include some good cabin LED lights in your plan. Most cockpits are
>poorly lighted for night operations. Get some good lighting that don't
>draw much juice.
Most importantly have fun and good holiday.
Well considered posting sir. Thank you. I'll remind the
ol' timers and alert the newbies of the ideas
and deliberations offered in the systems reliability
chapter of the 'Connection.
I've never owned and airplane with an electrical
system in it . . . the one airplane I did own for
a time wasn't a cross country machine (J-3).
When I fly, it's always in a rented airplane selected
from a fleet of perhaps a dozen options. I don't KNOW
the history of the airplane's electrical system in
detail. I PLAN to be able to complete a leg of my trip
in the "J-3 mode". I.e., panel dark, master switch off.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf
So if your mission profiles call for system capabilities
that cannot be COMFORTABLY conducted in a minimalist
approach to backup, then as Glen suggests, think all
this stuff through very carefully.
It's not a task that should be scarry, just informative
so that good judgement can prevail for any situation
you're faced with. The vast majority of unhappy days
in the cockpit or unplanned arrivals with the earth
had nothing to do with an alternator failure or system
configuration/maintenance. Poor judgement and/or over-
stretched skills account for most of aviation's sad stories.
Airplanes are never SAFE. Like cars, handguns,
and skateboards, they are but tools that offer an
opportunity for great utility, fun and personal
satisfaction. Deliberations on the AeroElectric-
List are not about safety. They're about risk
reduction for how YOUR machine will be configured
for how YOU plan to use it combined with YOUR
skills to cope. This isn't something you get by
reading the emergency procedures section of the
POH.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | OV protection for Alt energized contactor |
Looks to me if the S terminal of your Ford regulator senses too high a
voltage for any reason then it will cut all power to the F terminal of your
alternator. Problem with this set up is that it doesn't give you an
indication that you have gone into an OV situation.
Notice the G2 ground to the case of the regulator is important to have this
clean and corrosion free.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonlaury
Sent: November 22, 2010 5:08 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV protection for Alt energized contactor
My Stby alternator energizes its contactor, per the attached drawing.
How do I provide OV protection to the circuit with an OVM 14?
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320538#320538
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stby_alt_ov_protection_study_417.pdf
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Noises in transmitted signals |
Thanks for the reply Bob.
Sorry about the "background" noise description. This noise is not there
when the engine is shut down. It is there when when the engine is running.
Seems to get more noticeable as engine RPM increases. It makes no difference
if A/C is stationary, taxiing,or flying.
I ran the old radio on a separate wheel-chair battery for a few flights and
it seemed to be much better. I have not tried it with this one.
1. The original Terra 960 also had the same issues. My thinking was that by
rewiring with shielded wire (according to the ICOM diagram) would help!!
2. Also. would the PM3000 not be a better intercom than the" built in" in
the ICOM?? Isn`t shielded wire going to just generally going to improve the
situation??
I will experiment with listening on the portable as soon as it warms up a
bit. We are experiencing an unusual cold spell today and tomorrow (-12C)
this morning!!!!
Cheers
Don
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> At 09:18 AM 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>
> G`day Bob
>
> I am wondering if you could help me with connecting my radio. I
> have replaced an older Terra 960 navcom and PM 3000 intercom with
> a new ICOM A210. I just used the original wiring to the PTT and
> mic/headphone sockets. I eliminated the PM3000 intercom and am just
> using the "built-in" intercom in the A210. None of these wires are
> shielded.
>
> I have been using this setup for the past couple of months but the tower
> tells me my readability is usually 3 with quite a bit of background noise.
> I have a KitFox with a Rotax 912UL (80HP). I am using just one
> coax lead from the original RAMI AV-534 VHF Antenna 118-136 MHz.
> The other lead is just taped up.
>
> I now want to make up a new harness and hopefully improve
> readability/background noise.
>
> You're struggling with the same problem that
> tens of thousands of technicians have faced since
> DeForest lit up his first audion.
>
> The term "background noise" is indeterminate.
>
> It could be ignition, wind noise, alternator
> noise coming in through the bus, noise from
> another accessory getting into signal pathways
> (ground loops), etc.
>
> EACH of these noise sources has its own peculiar
> characteristic that the moderately experienced
> technician will recognize IF he heard it . . . but
> tower operators are not generally noteworthy
> for their technical acumen nor are they expected
> to be.
>
> On many occasions, I've been amazed at a tower
> operator's ability to get intelligence from some
> of the worst sounding radios. I'm similarly
> amazed at their patience when working with an
> airplane plagued with trashy signals.
>
> When is this noise noted? Are you in flight? On the
> ground? Engine running?
>
> Get a friend to help you. Have them sit in
> the cockpit and give you the 1,2,3,4 routine
> on a locally unused frequency while you stand
> off with a hand held (ear phones on it if
> you can) so YOU can listen to YOUR radio and
> described what you hear. You might take the
> rubber duck off the hand held so that you can
> stand say 50 feet away but not overload the hand
> held receiver.
>
> Not only do you need to know the character of
> the noise but the conditions under which it
> occurs. After you get an auditory sample, describe
> the nature of the noise and the conditions under
> which it does or does not happen.
>
> 1. I was planning on using 22ga. shielded for all wiring.
>
> I've never fixed a noise problem by adding shielded
> wires to a harness that were not already in
> place and in accordance with the manufacturer's
> wiring diagrams.
>
> 2. Reinstalling the PM3000 intercom
>
> Depends on what kind of noise and how it's
> getting in . . . I wouldn't discount this idea
> to zero . . . but it's quite low and probably
> not necessary.
>
> 3. Possibly bringing the radio power feed with a
> dedicated wire directly back to the battery. Would
> this help with the noise issue??? Just my own idea!!
>
> I'm a bit short tempered with folks who put
> out products for airplanes and then suggest that
> THEIR product performs "best" when wired directly
> to the ship's battery. Either they did their
> homework and the device can be installed like
> everybody else's products . . . or they are
> admitting a combination of ignorance or hiding
> a known shortcoming in the product's design.
>
> The Icom products do not suffer from the effects
> of this human shortcoming . . . so no, you don't
> need to move the power supply wires. We MIGHT
> need to fix a noise source that comes in on those
> wires but that's part of the investigation/
> identification task described above.
>
> Some years ago I published a diagram for hooking
> a tape recorder to the output of a hand held so
> that folks could record their own signals
> single-handed. Nowadays, this probably needs
> to be some sort of connection to an MP3 player
> with dictation features.
>
> You can set the hand held out away from the
> airplane and rubber-band a dictation machine
> to the speaker grille. In any case, THAT is
> where you start before you chopping out any
> wires.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Source for fuselink sleeve? |
Thankyou Bob & Bob,
> Were are you intending to use it?
>
As fuselink feed to from main bus to alternator1 Field CB and ditto for Alt2 from
Battery bus
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320642#320642
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Noises in transmitted signals |
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Ron Quillin <rjquillin@cox.net> wrote:
> At 09:19 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>
> You might take the
> rubber duck off the hand held so that you can
> stand say 50 feet away but not overload the hand
> held receiver.
>
>
> Would this be advisable if one also wished to transmit and talk to the
> operator in the aircraft?
> I'm thinking not a good idea, except for receive only...
>
> Ron Q.
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor |
Bob,
The B lead contactor was to avoid having an always hot 8 ga wire that goes across
the top of my engine to the Stby 40a alternator. Maybe a large diode is a simpler
solution.
What is it that won't work in the drawing? The wiring of the Ford regulator was
clipped and pasted from Z-13. Is it the alternator energized contactor?
The attached uses your exemplar OV reference and shows the entire schematic.
John
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320656#320656
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/z8_w_sb_altgpj_rev_c_115.pdf
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor |
Noel,
Thanks for your observations. I think I've addressed my own original question with
Bob N's direction to an example of std procedure. See the other "OV protection
..." thread
A forest and trees thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320657#320657
Message 17
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| Subject: | Noises in transmitted signals |
Ron: Removing the rubber duck antenna reflects close to 100% of the power
out of the final RF tr5ansistors back on themselves... To the radio it is
equivalent to leaning into a left hook.
Never try using a radio without the appropriate load on it.
If you want to try this you can wire a light bulb of sufficient wattage
across the antenna terminals. Don'5t be surprised if the light bulb glows
when the PTT is keyed.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Quillin
Sent: November 23, 2010 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Noises in transmitted signals
At 09:19 11/23/2010, you wrote:
You might take the
rubber duck off the hand held so that you can
stand say 50 feet away but not overload the hand
held receiver.
Would this be advisable if one also wished to transmit and talk to the
operator in the aircraft?
I'm thinking not a good idea, except for receive only...
Ron Q.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Noises in transmitted signals |
At 13:38 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>Ron: Removing the rubber duck antenna reflects close to 100% of the
>power out of the final RF tr5ansistors back on themselves... To the
>radio it is equivalent to leaning into a left hook.
>
>Never try using a radio without the appropriate load on it.
Precisely, that was the point of my post.
Don't fry your RF output stage.
Bob's comment suggested removal of the antenna.
OK for RX only, bad juju for XMIT.
>
>If you want to try this you can wire a light bulb of sufficient
>wattage across the antenna terminals. Don'5t be surprised if the
>light bulb glows when the PTT is keyed.
>
>Noel
>
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Quillin
>Sent: November 23, 2010 2:02 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Noises in transmitted signals
>
>At 09:19 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>
>You might take the
> rubber duck off the hand held so that you can
> stand say 50 feet away but not overload the hand
> held receiver.
>
>Would this be advisable if one also wished to transmit and talk to
>the operator in the aircraft?
>I'm thinking not a good idea, except for receive only...
>
>Ron Q.
>
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
>www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Noises in transmitted signals |
>Would this be advisable if one also wished to transmit and talk to
>the operator in the aircraft?
>I'm thinking not a good idea, except for receive only...
Correct . . . there is some risk to transmitting on
an unloaded transmitter . . . but not much. All the
panel mounted radios built by the 'big guys' are
protected against infinite SWR. Hand helds are still
more at risk for situations where the antenna is in
close proximity to conductive objects, wrong antenna
installed or simply left disconnected. I haven't
heard of a disconnected-antenna-meltdown in years.
When the first solid state radios came out, it WAS
a major concern.
Aha! Here's a chance to plug a AEC DIY project one
can do in a few minutes on the workbench after a
trip to Radio Shack.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/RF_Antenna_Test_Tools/DummyLoad.jpg
Stick one of these on the antenna jack for the test
hand-held and all will be right with the world even
if you decide to transmit.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: OV protection for Alt energized contactor |
At 03:00 PM 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>The B lead contactor was to avoid having an always hot 8 ga wire
>that goes across the top of my engine to the Stby 40a alternator.
>Maybe a large diode is a simpler solution.
Oh yeah, I think we had this discussion before. That
contactor would go right next to the battery contactor.
Energize it with power taken from the alternator control
switch that connects the Bus to the regulator.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Source for fuselink sleeve? |
At 01:55 PM 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>
>Thankyou Bob & Bob,
>
>
> > Were are you intending to use it?
> >
>
>As fuselink feed to from main bus to alternator1 Field CB and ditto
>for Alt2 from Battery bus
Okay. Just checking. We probably talked about
it but I've got a dozen different 'thinking streams'
going right now.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | OV protection for Alt energized contactor |
At 01:49 PM 11/23/2010, you wrote:
>
>Looks to me if the S terminal of your Ford regulator senses too high a
>voltage for any reason then it will cut all power to the F terminal of your
>alternator. Problem with this set up is that it doesn't give you an
>indication that you have gone into an OV situation.
OV is a transient event . . . perhaps 100 mS long followed
by a very long LV condition which flashes a light.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Noises in transmitted signals |
Back in the '50's we called that a dummy load for testing the rig
D
In a message dated 11/23/2010 3:48:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes:
If you want to try this you can wire a light bulb of sufficient wattage
across the antenna terminals. Don=995t be surprised if the light bu
lb glows
when the PTT is keyed.
Message 24
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| Subject: | peak loads for motors/pumps |
Say you're doing your load analysis and you have a flap motor (running all
of 30 seconds during a flight) that when turned on briefly draws 14 amps an
d then quickly settles down to 3.5 amps while running -- do you consider th
e "peak load" 14 amps or 3.5 amps as far as determining wire size and fuse
size? -Same question with a high pressure electric fuel pump for fuel inj
ected engines.
Do not archive
Lincoln KeillRV-7A
Message 25
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| Subject: | Checklist for abnormal ops using Z-13/8 |
I'm roughing out a draft for two abnormal electrical systems checklists for
Z-13/8 using B&C's LR-3C regulator and a PC-680 battery. =C2-I'm sure so
meone has trod this ground already -- here's my first draft -- any comments
or suggestions?
=0A=0ALOW VOLTAGE LIGHT FLASHING=0A=0A1.=C2-=C2- E-BUS ALT=0AFEED switc
h =93 ON=0A=0A2.=C2-=C2- AUX ALT=0Aswitch =93 ON=0A=0A3.=C2
-=C2- If LOW=0AVOLT light extinguishes / not flashing:=0A=0A=C2-=C2
- 3A.=C2- DC=0APOWER MASTER switch=94OFF=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 3B.=C2
-=0AVerify ENDURANCE BUS voltage > 13.0=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 3C.=C2-=0ACon
tinue to destination -- monitor E-BUS voltage=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 3D.=C2- O
n=0Afinal approach =93 DC POWER MASTER switch=94ON=0A=0A4.=C2
-=C2- If LOW=0AVOLT light continues flashing:=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 4A.=C2
- Hack=0Aclock / note time=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 4B.=C2-=C2-=0ADC POWER M
ASTER switch =93 OFF=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 4C.=C2-=0ATransponder -- 770
0=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 4D.=C2-=C2-=0ALand at nearest suitable airport (wit
hin 60 minutes)=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 4E.=C2- On=0Afinal approach =93 D
C POWER MASTER switch=94ON=0A=0A-------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------=0A=0A5.=C2-=C2- Once o
n=0Athe ground & parked, begin troubleshooting=0A=0A6.=C2-=C2- If ALT F
LD=0Acircuit breaker is open/tripped (overvoltage):=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 6A.
=C2- Reset=0ACB and run engine -- note primary alternator field voltage u
sing test probe=0A=0A=C2-=C2- 6B.=C2- Refer=0Ato AEC Page Z-8 for tro
ubleshooting guidance=0A=0A=C2-
=0A=0AELECTRICAL SMOKE / FIRE
=0A=0A1.=C2- E-BUS ALT FEED switch =93 ON=0A=0A2.=C2- DC POWER MA
STER switch =93 OFF=0A=0A3.=C2- Cabin heat =93 OFF=0A=0A4.=C2
- Eyeball vents (both) =93 FULL OPEN=0A=0A5.=C2- Transponder -- 7
700=0A=0A6.=C2- Hack clock / note time=0A=0A7.=C2- If smoke/fire dimini
shes/extinguishes:=0A=0A7A. Land at=0Anearest suitable airport (within 60 m
inutes)=0A=0A8.=C2- If smoke/fire continues:=0A=0A8A.=C2- Obtain VMC=0A
=0A8B.=C2- E-BUS ALT FEED switch =93 OFF=0A=0A=C2-=C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- 8C.=C2- Land immediately=0A=0A=0A=0A
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