Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - Re: Intermittent Generator (Dennis Johnson)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Intermittent Alternator (Dennis Johnson)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: Aux alt. ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:57 AM - Re: Avionics ground bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: Avionics ground bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Generator (Neal George)
7. 10:02 AM - Music isolation advice (Tim Olson)
8. 11:03 AM - G530 TX Issue ()
9. 11:22 AM - Re: G530 TX Issue (Tim Perry)
10. 01:39 PM - Re: G530 TX Issue (Charlie England)
11. 01:39 PM - Re: Music isolation advice (Peter Pengilly)
12. 01:41 PM - Key Switch & LSE Ignition (Sue Dehnert)
13. 02:14 PM - Re: Music isolation advice (Tim Olson)
14. 02:21 PM - Noise in headset from Map496 (Marty)
15. 02:33 PM - Re: Music isolation advice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:50 PM - Re: Intermittent Generator Problem (Noel Loveys)
17. 03:06 PM - Re: Music isolation advice (Tim Olson)
18. 09:05 PM - Water temp sensor ground (Paul Kuntz)
Message 1
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Subject: | RE: Intermittent Generator |
Hi Neal,
A diode failure in the alternator was my first thought, too. But when
the alternator healed itself and returned to normal function a few
minutes later, I wasn't so sure. Is it likely that a diode would fail
intermittently?
I listened to Mike Busch's webinar on alternators last night
http://www.savvymx.com/index.php/webinar and he said an intermittent
problem was likely something to do with the brushes, which was my guess
after my alternator healed itself.
Thanks for the help,
Dennis
Time: 01:05:14 PM PST US
From: "Neal George" <n8zg@att.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem
I suspect you're losing an output diode in the alternator.
neal
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis
Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 9:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem
While on a cross country flight last week, I got a low voltage
indication in
my Lancair Legacy, wired using Z 13-8. I turned on the SD-8 aux
alternator
and the voltage increased to the low end of the normal range. I also
noticed a whine sound in my headset. If I turned off the main
alternator,
the whine went away but the voltage sagged. (I have an all electric
airplane and the SD-8 won't carry the full load unless I shed loads,
turn
the master switch off, and run on the E-bus.)
I turned the main alternator back on and the whine sound in my headset
returned and the voltage returned to the low end of the normal range. I
flew that way for about 15 minutes and the whine suddenly stopped and
voltage jumped up to normal. I turned off the aux alternator and
completed
the flight normally.
Everything was perfectly normal for the two hour flight home.
Any ideas what caused this? Since the first symptom was reduced output
and
a whine in the headset, I initially suspected failed diodes inside the
alternator, but when it healed itself, I thought it might have been a
brush
problem inside the alternator. After 15 minutes, whatever was causing
poor
brush contact went away? I'm grasping at straws here.
I am so thankful for Bob's Z 13-8 architecture, which allowed me to
continue
the flight without breaking a sweat! Thanks, Bob!
Supporting information:
Lancair Legacy, Continental IO-550 engine, 12 volt gear-driven main
alternator, SD-8 permanent magnet aux alternator, Z 13-8 architecture,
all
electric panel.
Dennis Johnson
Message 2
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Subject: | RE: Intermittent Alternator |
Hi David,
Thanks for the tip about the hairline crack in your stator wiring. I
hope my problem isn't something that hard to diagnose.
Dennis
Time: 02:39:46 PM PST US
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem
About intermittent alternators..... Once I had to chase a mystery
problem. Alternator would go off line, later come on line. I later
chased down a hairline crack in the stationary stator windings in the
case where it entered a swaging boss. When the alt. go hot, the
hairline crack would open and after the alt. cooled a little the wire
would make continuity and charge again. I suspect that the heavy wire
was damaged during manufacture and would not show up until the alt. put
under heavy loads in hot conditions. I had to use a magnifying glass to
finally view the crack.....
If it is not diodes, then look for this stator wire problem.
David
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Aux alt. ground |
At 05:56 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Is there a suggested wire size (or rule of thumb) for the ground
>coming off the aux alt. capacitor in Z-131/8 Rev. R ?
>
>Thanks
Same size as the wires connected to the other end.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Avionics ground bus |
Some parts on order for the first production batch will
be here tomorrow. I'm about 1/3 completed with the
instruction manual. I'll put it up on the website
catalog and order form tomorrow.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Avionics ground bus |
At 09:55 AM 12/7/2010, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>Some parts on order for the first production batch will
>be here tomorrow. I'm about 1/3 completed with the
>instruction manual. I'll put it up on the website
>catalog and order form tomorrow.
Scratch that. I modified the html for the catalog
and put it up on the server to test . . . but forgot
to put it away when I was finished. Orders are
already showing up so I'll leave it alone. Interested
individuals can place an order for the 37-pin ground
bus at their convenience.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | RE: Intermittent Generator |
Several possibilities, Dennis,
Assuming you've checked the belt for proper tension, and given your
description of the circumstances, all the ones I can imagine indicate a heat
component. David makes a good point regarding case cracks & conductor
breaks that open up as the unit reaches operating temps, then close as it
cools. Every component in the case is subject to that failure mode.
You didn't say how long between take-off and low-voltage indication - still
in the climb with lights, pitot heat, gear actuators running, drawing max
loads down low where it's relatively warmer OAT? Or high cruise, cooler OAT
and "normal" steady-state loads? When the voltage sagged, where did it
stabilize before you enabled the SD-8 - 10.8v? 11.5v? 12.3v?
You reported a whine and sagging voltage - the low end of normal with both
the SD-8 and main alt running. Folks who know a lot more about alternators
than I have told me that a failing diode pack will often generate enough
electrical noise to manifest as a whine in the audio system. I expect
arcing/chattering brushes could generate similar noise.
Bob teaches that our GA alternators are predominately 3-phase devices. If
you lose one of the three output legs, your alternator can still deliver
energy, but it won't be full rated power. You reported that with the SD-8
running, bringing the main alt back on line raised the bus voltage to the
low end of the normal range. This indicates that the main alt was
contributing some power, but not enough to carry the load.
A weak field could also manifest as a low voltage. A loose field connector,
faulty wire, failing switch/breaker, dirty/worn/contaminated brushes & rings
are all possible culprits.
I believe I'd start by checking the ship's alternator circuits for
loose/corroded connections, then pull the alternator for a trip to the local
automotive starter & alternator repair house for some bench testing.
neal
=============
Hi Neal,
A diode failure in the alternator was my first thought, too. But when the
alternator healed itself and returned to normal function a few minutes
later, I wasn't so sure. Is it likely that a diode would fail
intermittently?
I listened to Mike Busch's webinar on alternators last night
http://www.savvymx.com/index.php/webinar and he said an intermittent problem
was likely something to do with the brushes, which was my guess after my
alternator healed itself.
Thanks for the help,
Dennis
Message 7
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Subject: | Music isolation advice |
Attached is a .jpg to best explain this....
I'm mixing audio into the headset cord, basically.
In the end I will be doing something for both rear
seats, so they have independent music.
Today though I realized something after looking at my
audio panel (PMA8000) wiring info... All of the
rear seat jacks (4 passenger jacks) are all basically
paralleled together.
I tested injecting audio with the attached circuit
using 10 ohm and 100 ohm resistors, and got a
satisfactory music and intercom volume to the headset...
tested using a portable intercom. What I forgot
about was the section in blue....with the other
headsets in parallel.
I'm betting that the resistors will do nothing to
prevent the MUSIC audio from this left seat example from
being heard by the right seat (blue).
It seems to me that I'll need to put some sort
of isolator in the intercom audio line, just
before the 10 ohm resistors, in order to prevent
the music from backfeeding to the other headsets.
Is there a simple way to do this, or am I wrong, and
the resistors if I do a similar circuit on the right,
act as some sort of matching device and prevent
this from happening?
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 8
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My Garmin 530 is having an issue transmitting.
1. When I click on the PTT button the TX light comes on the Garmin
and my test handheld radio goes silent as to receive the voice. No voice
is transmitted/heard. I have to really speak up to hear myself talking
when I press the button.
2. My other 2 com radios work perfectly.
3. Also when transmitting the Audio COM1 button blinks and
recognizes the transmission.
4. The vol/sql knob appears to work as advertised.
Ideas appreciated.
Thanks
Glenn E. Long
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: G530 TX Issue |
Had my 430 do the same thing. Had to send it to garmin, they ended up repla
cing the two boards. I have talked to several others have similar failures o
n the 430 and 530. For the 430 it was flat rate repair of $800.
Tim
On Dec 7, 2010, at 1:30 PM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
> My Garmin 530 is having an issue transmitting.
>
>
>
> 1. When I click on the PTT button the TX light comes on the Garmin a
nd my test handheld radio goes silent as to receive the voice. No voice is t
ransmitted/heard. I have to really speak up to hear myself talking when I pr
ess the button.
>
> 2. My other 2 com radios work perfectly.
>
> 3. Also when transmitting the Audio COM1 button blinks and recognize
s the transmission.
>
> 4. The vol/sql knob appears to work as advertised.
>
>
>
> Ideas appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: G530 TX Issue |
On 12/7/2010 12:30 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote:
>
> My Garmin 530 is having an issue transmitting.
>
> 1.When I click on the PTT button the TX light comes on the Garmin and
> my test handheld radio goes silent as to receive the voice. No voice
> is transmitted/heard. I have to really speak up to hear myself talking
> when I press the button.
>
> 2.My other 2 com radios work perfectly.
>
> 3.Also when transmitting the Audio COM1 button blinks and recognizes
> the transmission.
>
> 4.The vol/sql knob appears to work as advertised.
>
> Ideas appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
A friend had the same symptom with a factory new 430. Swapped into
another a/c & it worked fine; bad again in his plane.
After perusing the wiring diagrams for days and contacting Garmin tech
help & detailing every single pin that had wire (tech said it was wired
correctly), he finally took it to a local avionics shop. They took one
look at the back & told him he was missing one of the grounds (sorry;
don't remember which one).
The harness was built by the vendor where he bought the radio.
Remember that even if it worked for a while, pins can back out of the
housing if they are defective, or if they were not fully seated when
they were installed.
Charlie
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Music isolation advice |
This is the expensive way to achieve what you're after here
<http://www.ps-engineering.com/muse.shtml> - street price should be
less, but way more than a few resistors!
I'm not an electronics guru, but I don't see any reason why the audio
would not be fed into the other headsets - there doesn't appear to be
anything to stop it ... Perhaps you need a isolating amplifier at each
seat - Bob posted about these a few days ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/
Not entirely sure it will meet your needs, but I think it does.
Peter
On 07/12/2010 17:30, Tim Olson wrote:
> Attached is a .jpg to best explain this....
>
> I'm mixing audio into the headset cord, basically.
> In the end I will be doing something for both rear
> seats, so they have independent music.
>
> Today though I realized something after looking at my
> audio panel (PMA8000) wiring info... All of the
> rear seat jacks (4 passenger jacks) are all basically
> paralleled together.
>
> I tested injecting audio with the attached circuit
> using 10 ohm and 100 ohm resistors, and got a
> satisfactory music and intercom volume to the headset...
> tested using a portable intercom. What I forgot
> about was the section in blue....with the other
> headsets in parallel.
>
> I'm betting that the resistors will do nothing to
> prevent the MUSIC audio from this left seat example from
> being heard by the right seat (blue).
>
> It seems to me that I'll need to put some sort
> of isolator in the intercom audio line, just
> before the 10 ohm resistors, in order to prevent
> the music from backfeeding to the other headsets.
>
> Is there a simple way to do this, or am I wrong, and
> the resistors if I do a similar circuit on the right,
> act as some sort of matching device and prevent
> this from happening?
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Key Switch & LSE Ignition |
Hi all,
Will be using a standard aircraft key switch and connecting L/H
mag P lead to terminal L on switch with shield grounded at mag and
connected to GRD terminal on switch.
The LSE ignition key switch option (P) lead from output
connector pin 1 to terminal R on the switch. This lead is shielded and
connected to pin 9 on the output connector of the LSE and GRD terminal
on the switch.
Q 1 Does the switch GRD terminal need to be grounded to the
airframe ie battery ground because of the LSE ignition.
Q 2 Do I use the Jumper between the GRD & R terminals on the
switch. ( Aerosportpower O360 with 1 mag L/H & LSE ignition R/H )
Q 3 Separate from above which TACH signal on LSE would be best
to use for DYNON EMS Pulse or Analog
Hope I have explained this clearly and look forward to your replies
thanks John Dehnert.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Music isolation advice |
Holy moly, if I'd have known about those a few days
ago I might just have jumped on that. Indeed it
is nearly exactly what I'm looking for, but yeah,
at 3X the price I suppose.
It looks like you're right...this kit that Bob has might
be just the ticket. I'll have to see if the circuit
board is available pre-made...if so, I think I'll do this.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 12/7/2010 3:35 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> This is the expensive way to achieve what you're after here
> <http://www.ps-engineering.com/muse.shtml> - street price should be
> less, but way more than a few resistors!
>
> I'm not an electronics guru, but I don't see any reason why the audio
> would not be fed into the other headsets - there doesn't appear to be
> anything to stop it ... Perhaps you need a isolating amplifier at each
> seat - Bob posted about these a few days ago:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/
>
> Not entirely sure it will meet your needs, but I think it does.
>
> Peter
>
> On 07/12/2010 17:30, Tim Olson wrote:
>> Attached is a .jpg to best explain this....
>>
>> I'm mixing audio into the headset cord, basically.
>> In the end I will be doing something for both rear
>> seats, so they have independent music.
>>
>> Today though I realized something after looking at my
>> audio panel (PMA8000) wiring info... All of the
>> rear seat jacks (4 passenger jacks) are all basically
>> paralleled together.
>>
>> I tested injecting audio with the attached circuit
>> using 10 ohm and 100 ohm resistors, and got a
>> satisfactory music and intercom volume to the headset...
>> tested using a portable intercom. What I forgot
>> about was the section in blue....with the other
>> headsets in parallel.
>>
>> I'm betting that the resistors will do nothing to
>> prevent the MUSIC audio from this left seat example from
>> being heard by the right seat (blue).
>>
>> It seems to me that I'll need to put some sort
>> of isolator in the intercom audio line, just
>> before the 10 ohm resistors, in order to prevent
>> the music from backfeeding to the other headsets.
>>
>> Is there a simple way to do this, or am I wrong, and
>> the resistors if I do a similar circuit on the right,
>> act as some sort of matching device and prevent
>> this from happening?
>>
> *
>
> *
Message 14
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Subject: | Noise in headset from Map496 |
I am trying to track down some noise in my headset that near as I can tell
is generated by my MAP496 with weather. When I turn the GPS off, the noise
is gone. The noise is a rhythmic sort of hiss in the head set, approx every
second. It appears with engine on or engine off. It is masked when flying
by the other noise in the cockpit, but it is noticeable. The noise might be
generated by the active weather antenna, but as my unit is panel mounted and
powered from the buss so pulling the antenna is not the easiest chore. I
can't find a way to turn the weather off, and deactivate that antenna to see
if that is the source while the GPS is turned on. The GPS and Weather
antennas are mounted close to each other, on the glare shield in front of
the co-pilot and above to the Garmin GMA340 audio panel. Anyone have some
experience with this or other ideas?
Marty RV-6A
N826ME
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Music isolation advice |
At 04:11 PM 12/7/2010, you wrote:
>
>Holy moly, if I'd have known about those a few days
>ago I might just have jumped on that. Indeed it
>is nearly exactly what I'm looking for, but yeah,
>at 3X the price I suppose.
>
>It looks like you're right...this kit that Bob has might
>be just the ticket. I'll have to see if the circuit
>board is available pre-made...if so, I think I'll do this.
I've never offered it as an assembled device
but I think I've got the parts in the bins to
build one. If you decide that's what you need,
we can probably accommodate you.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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Subject: | Intermittent Generator Problem |
It could also be a sticking brush on the field coil.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Lloyd
Sent: December 6, 2010 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem
About intermittent alternators..... Once I had to chase a mystery problem.
Alternator would go off line, later come on line. I later chased down a
hairline crack in the stationary stator windings in the case where it
entered a swaging boss. When the alt. go hot, the hairline crack would open
and after the alt. cooled a little the wire would make continuity and charge
again. I suspect that the heavy wire was damaged during manufacture and
would not show up until the alt. put under heavy loads in hot conditions. I
had to use a magnifying glass to finally view the crack.....
If it is not diodes, then look for this stator wire problem.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Neal George <mailto:n8zg@att.net>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem
I suspect you're losing an output diode in the alternator.
neal
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 9:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem
While on a cross country flight last week, I got a low voltage indication in
my Lancair Legacy, wired using Z 13-8. I turned on the SD-8 aux alternator
and the voltage increased to the low end of the normal range. I also
noticed a whine sound in my headset. If I turned off the main alternator,
the whine went away but the voltage sagged. (I have an all electric
airplane and the SD-8 won't carry the full load unless I shed loads, turn
the master switch off, and run on the E-bus.)
I turned the main alternator back on and the whine sound in my headset
returned and the voltage returned to the low end of the normal range. I
flew that way for about 15 minutes and the whine suddenly stopped and
voltage jumped up to normal. I turned off the aux alternator and completed
the flight normally.
Everything was perfectly normal for the two hour flight home.
Any ideas what caused this? Since the first symptom was reduced output and
a whine in the headset, I initially suspected failed diodes inside the
alternator, but when it healed itself, I thought it might have been a brush
problem inside the alternator. After 15 minutes, whatever was causing poor
brush contact went away? I'm grasping at straws here.
I am so thankful for Bob's Z 13-8 architecture, which allowed me to continue
the flight without breaking a sweat! Thanks, Bob!
Supporting information:
Lancair Legacy, Continental IO-550 engine, 12 volt gear-driven main
alternator, SD-8 permanent magnet aux alternator, Z 13-8 architecture, all
electric panel.
Dennis Johnson
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Music isolation advice |
Yeah, it seems to be what I'd need...even more than
what I'd need. I just want audio in on one jack,
and to be able to boost it only a little. The headset
audio would just pass through and mix, without allowing
the music audio to backfeed to the rest of the system.
In my application, I'd actually need to build 2 of them,
one for each seat, since really my goal is to mix
music with a single headset, without affecting all
the other headsets, so that the 2 rear seater's can
each have their own independent music. That's pretty
much it. If the device does that, my next step
is to get the parts and boards together and start
soldering away. Not sure what the parts list
comes to, but if it can be done for under $100 for a
pair of them, I'll be pretty happy...especially
if it can give a little gain to the music audio.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 12/7/2010 4:30 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 04:11 PM 12/7/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Holy moly, if I'd have known about those a few days
>> ago I might just have jumped on that. Indeed it
>> is nearly exactly what I'm looking for, but yeah,
>> at 3X the price I suppose.
>>
>> It looks like you're right...this kit that Bob has might
>> be just the ticket. I'll have to see if the circuit
>> board is available pre-made...if so, I think I'll do this.
>
> I've never offered it as an assembled device
> but I think I've got the parts in the bins to
> build one. If you decide that's what you need,
> we can probably accommodate you.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Water temp sensor ground |
This photo<http://webhosting.web.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/water_temp_sensor_2.JPG&target=tlx_picncs7>shows
a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax
912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of
the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a
ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine,
so it's not presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a
tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a
ground wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one
myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I
could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any
recommendations?
Thanks,
Paul Kuntz
http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com
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