---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/08/10: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (user9253) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: G530 TX Issue () 3. 05:17 AM - LSE Ignition for Sale () 4. 05:37 AM - Re: LSE Ignition for Sale (JOHN TIPTON) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Neal George) 6. 06:37 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Paul Kuntz) 7. 06:52 AM - Re: LSE Ignition for Sale () 8. 06:59 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (paul wilson) 9. 06:59 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Jon Finley) 10. 07:03 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Neal George) 11. 07:14 AM - Re: Music isolation advice (Vern Little) 12. 08:03 AM - Re: Music isolation advice (Tim Olson) 13. 08:09 AM - Re: Intermittent Generator (Dennis Johnson) 14. 08:16 AM - Re: Intermittent Generator (Dennis Johnson) 15. 08:38 AM - Re: Music isolation advice (Tim Olson) 16. 11:20 AM - Re: Music isolation advice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 12:34 PM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Bill Bradburry) 18. 12:43 PM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Paul Kuntz) 19. 05:09 PM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Noel Loveys) 20. 05:31 PM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 06:37 PM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Paul Kuntz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Water temp sensor ground From: "user9253" How about using a ring terminal? What inside diameter is required? Maybe you could find one at an auto parts store. The electronic supply houses usually sell them in boxes of 10 or more. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=320758-ND Ask around, someone might have one of the size needed. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322648#322648 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: G530 TX Issue From: Thanks everyone - I'll give these ideas a go. Do Not Archive Glenn E. Long From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:36 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: G530 TX Issue On 12/7/2010 12:30 PM, longg@pjm.com wrote: My Garmin 530 is having an issue transmitting. When I click on the PTT button the TX light comes on the Garmin and my test handheld radio goes silent as to receive the voice. No voice is transmitted/heard. I have to really speak up to hear myself talking when I press the button. My other 2 com radios work perfectly. Also when transmitting the Audio COM1 button blinks and recognizes the transmission. The vol/sql knob appears to work as advertised. Ideas appreciated. Thanks Glenn E. Long A friend had the same symptom with a factory new 430. Swapped into another a/c & it worked fine; bad again in his plane. After perusing the wiring diagrams for days and contacting Garmin tech help & detailing every single pin that had wire (tech said it was wired correctly), he finally took it to a local avionics shop. They took one look at the back & told him he was missing one of the grounds (sorry; don't remember which one). The harness was built by the vendor where he bought the radio. Remember that even if it worked for a while, pins can back out of the housing if they are defective, or if they were not fully seated when they were installed. Charlie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:04 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE Ignition for Sale From: For any of you building your project, I've got an LSE Ignition with only 1 hour of time on it. I used to have dual, but took one off and replaced with 1 mag at the advice of those with more experience. If you are interested, let me know. Wholesale, this model goes for $1300+ stuff anywhere else. A Slick mag will cost you more than 1k. Model: Plasma III / 4 Cylinder Type: Hall Sensor Harness: Order from Klaus - You need a special length based on installation location and whether you want a Simpson display. RPM Pickup - Klaus says this model should provide it, but I could never get a signal off the pins. You can mail to him to check if you want it. I don't use it. The Simpson option displays everything you need. RPM, MP, Timing. Coil and Wire harness included for 4 cylinder setup. Condition: Used 1 hour Price $1000.00 - No offers please. I'll let it sit on the shelf and rot for anything less. Glenn ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:33 AM PST US From: "JOHN TIPTON" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LSE Ignition for Sale I'll let it sit on the shelf and rot for anything less. Nice one ----- Original Message ----- From: longg@pjm.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:14 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE Ignition for Sale For any of you building your project, I've got an LSE Ignition with only 1 hour of time on it. I used to have dual, but took one off and replaced with 1 mag at the advice of those with more experience. If you are interested, let me know. Wholesale, this model goes for $1300+ stuff anywhere else. A Slick mag will cost you more than 1k. Model: Plasma III / 4 Cylinder Type: Hall Sensor Harness: Order from Klaus - You need a special length based on installation location and whether you want a Simpson display. RPM Pickup - Klaus says this model should provide it, but I could never get a signal off the pins. You can mail to him to check if you want it. I don't use it. The Simpson option displays everything you need. RPM, MP, Timing. Coil and Wire harness included for 4 cylinder setup. Condition: Used 1 hour Price $1000.00 - No offers please. I'll let it sit on the shelf and rot for anything less. Glenn ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:00 AM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Paul - If the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer between the fitting and the manifold is probably not a good idea. Clamping force is required to maintain electrical contact/continuity with the washer, fitting & sensor. NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal. Finding the perfect thickness of washer to fill the gap between the manifold boss and the adapter shoulder while maintaining the correct fit of the NPT threads without over- or under-torquing might be challenging. If it were my airplane, I think I'd drill thru one of the corners of the brass fitting (emulating a safety wire hole) and solder a wire in the hole for the ground. Example photos: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index.html http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled.pdf neal ========== This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any recommendations? Thanks, Paul Kuntz http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground From: Paul Kuntz Neal, That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads. One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint. Thanks, Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Neal George wrote: > Paul ' > > If the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer > between the fitting and the manifold is probably not a good idea. Clampi ng > force is required to maintain electrical contact/continuity with the wash er, > fitting & sensor. NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal .. > Finding the perfect thickness of washer to fill the gap between the manif old > boss and the adapter shoulder while maintaining the correct fit of the NP T > threads without over- or under-torquing might be challenging. > > > If it were my airplane, I think I=92d drill thru one of the corners of th e > brass fitting (emulating a safety wire hole) and solder a wire in the hol e > for the ground. Example photos: > > > http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index. html > > http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled.pdf > > > neal > > ========== > > This photoshows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my R otax > 912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of > the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a > ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engi ne, > so it's not presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a > tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a > ground wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one > myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I > could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any > recommendations? > > Thanks, > Paul Kuntz > http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LSE Ignition for Sale From: Additional item - Hal sensor gear not included. You or your engine folks provide the accessory gear for the hall sensor. I got the unit with the engine so had to swap the gear to use on my MAG. Talk to your engine people first to be sure. Personal checks welcome. Will not ship until I got the green. Thanks Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE Ignition for Sale For any of you building your project, I've got an LSE Ignition with only 1 hour of time on it. I used to have dual, but took one off and replaced with 1 mag at the advice of those with more experience. If you are interested, let me know. Wholesale, this model goes for $1300+ stuff anywhere else. A Slick mag will cost you more than 1k. Model: Plasma III / 4 Cylinder Type: Hall Sensor Harness: Order from Klaus - You need a special length based on installation location and whether you want a Simpson display. RPM Pickup - Klaus says this model should provide it, but I could never get a signal off the pins. You can mail to him to check if you want it. I don't use it. The Simpson option displays everything you need. RPM, MP, Timing. Coil and Wire harness included for 4 cylinder setup. Condition: Used 1 hour Price $1000.00 - No offers please. I'll let it sit on the shelf and rot for anything less. Glenn ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:29 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Dont know what brand you are installing, but most gauges come with optional two senders. One like yours and on with the required ground tab. Check the source for that option. Lots more samitary than a workaround with onbly one tab. PaulW ===== At 08:56 PM 12/7/2010, you wrote: >This >photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser >on my Rotax 912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting >screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of >the photo. The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is >connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently >grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper >washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground >wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one >myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are >available. Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the >manifold and ground the clamp. Any recommendations? > >Thanks, >Paul Kuntz >http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground From: "Jon Finley" =0AHi Paul,=0A =0AThe best option is to replace the sensor with one that ha s a ground connector (obviously). However; I have run into this same situa tion a number of times and have never come up with a really good solution ( so am listening closely to the responses). The best I have come up is a ho se clamp around the sensor with a ground wire underneith it (as you mention ed). The only trick to this seems to be adequately securing the wire agains t vibration or else it will break (at the hose clamp) over time. Of course (just to spite me I think), the most recent sensor I added was a large hexa gon shape which made the hose clamp solution really crude.=0A =0AJon Finley =0AN314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22=0A[http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx] ht tp://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AF rom: "Paul Kuntz" =0ASent: Wednesday, December 8, 2 010 7:28am=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectri c-List: Water temp sensor ground=0A=0ANeal,=0A=0AThat's not a bad idea, alt hough this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe thread s. One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of w ire fatigue at the solder joint.=0A=0AThanks,=0APaul=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Neal George <[mailto:n8zg@att.net] n8zg@att.net> wrote: =0A=0A=0A=0APaul =93 =0AIf the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer between the fitting and the manifold is probably n ot a good idea. Clamping force is required to maintain electrical contact/ continuity with the washer, fitting & sensor. NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal. Finding the perfect thickness of washer to fil l the gap between the manifold boss and the adapter shoulder while maintain ing the correct fit of the NPT threads without over- or under-torquing migh t be challenging.=0A =0AIf it were my airplane, I think I=99d drill t hru one of the corners of the brass fitting (emulating a safety wire hole) and solder a wire in the hole for the ground. Example photos: =0A =0A[http ://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index.html] http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index.ht ml =0A[http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled. pdf] http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled.pd f =0A =0Aneal=0A============0A=0A=0A=0A[http://webhos ting.web.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual &linkpath=http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilder pictures/water_temp_sensor_2.JPG&target=tlx_picncs7] This photo shows a w ater temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 insta llation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's n ot presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed c opper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire , but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I 'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I could screw a ho se clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any recommendations?=0A =0AThanks,=0APaul Kuntz=0A[http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com/] http://www.pi pistrelbuilders.com=0A=0A=0A=0A_blank">www.aeroelectric.com.com" target=" _blank">www.buildersbooks.com="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com_blank">http: //www.matronics.com/contributionist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics ======================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:57 AM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground The soldered joint presents a manageable risk. Two easy options: 1- After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape. 2 - Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering. After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering. There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair - for convenience, not noise rejection). neal ================= Neal, That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads. One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:01 AM PST US From: "Vern Little" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice If you want independent music capability for each seat, you will need an isolation amplifier for each. Also, most music players don't put out enough power o provide acceptable audio levels in the cockpit, so the passive mixer approach that you are using may not be adequate. What I developed to solve this problem are these devices: The ASX-2A and the ASX-2B (http://vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#ASX-2B_more). These may be overkill if you are looking for something simple, but it neatly solves the problem on a per-seat basis and they are very small. Additional benefits are the auto-mute capability and the cell phone interface (ASX-2B only). Thanks, Vern Little Vx Aviation -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice Attached is a .jpg to best explain this.... I'm mixing audio into the headset cord, basically. In the end I will be doing something for both rear seats, so they have independent music. Today though I realized something after looking at my audio panel (PMA8000) wiring info... All of the rear seat jacks (4 passenger jacks) are all basically paralleled together. I tested injecting audio with the attached circuit using 10 ohm and 100 ohm resistors, and got a satisfactory music and intercom volume to the headset... tested using a portable intercom. What I forgot about was the section in blue....with the other headsets in parallel. I'm betting that the resistors will do nothing to prevent the MUSIC audio from this left seat example from being heard by the right seat (blue). It seems to me that I'll need to put some sort of isolator in the intercom audio line, just before the 10 ohm resistors, in order to prevent the music from backfeeding to the other headsets. Is there a simple way to do this, or am I wrong, and the resistors if I do a similar circuit on the right, act as some sort of matching device and prevent this from happening? -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:34:00 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:42 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice Hi Vern, Yeah, the ASX-2A is pretty close to what I'd be looking for. I definitely don't need cellphone...it's just for the kids in the rear seats. Can the auto-mute be disabled on the ASX-2A? I can't stand it when someone talks and interrupts my music, and I'm sure the kids would scream if every time we talked to them their songs faded away. If it were switchable it would be nice. I did, a couple days ago, order a music headphone amp for each rear seat, that runs on 12V (the Boostaroo Revolution), so I'm in it for $100 already for amping up the volume on the ipod audio. They can do 4X boosting. I tested those 4-resistor passive mixers and even with no amp the volume was real low but I could tell that 2X or 4X would be fine. So your ASX-2A provides the music boosting I take it, right? If so, it's definitely a viable option. What I'm not clear on yet regarding Bob's Audio Isolation Amp is if it provides any music boosting. It does say it's a unity amp, so I'm guessing there is no boost, but then it also says that you can adjust resistors for volume levels. I'm itching for a DIY project, actually, so it's attractive to build that one, but if it doesn't boost the ipod audio in, then I'm still going to fight with that. My ideal right now, since I've bought about $200 in switches, parts, and boosters that will be showing up in the next day or two, would be to find just a VERY simple audio isolation circuit....one that I can put inline with the headset audio, and then do my passive mixer after that. Since I know all the passive mixer will do what I need, with no special features, I just need to insure that the ipod audio doesn't go back through the system to the other seat. I'm just not clear on what the very simple 1:1 isolation-only system would be that would do the job. Do you stock your ASX-2A's? Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive On 12/8/2010 9:09 AM, Vern Little wrote: > If you want independent music capability for each seat, you will need an > isolation amplifier for each. Also, most music players don't put out > enough power o provide acceptable audio levels in the cockpit, so the > passive mixer approach that you are using may not be adequate. > What I developed to solve this problem are these devices: The ASX-2A and > the ASX-2B (http://vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#ASX-2B_more). These may > be overkill if you are looking for something simple, but it neatly > solves the problem on a per-seat basis and they are very small. > Additional benefits are the auto-mute capability and the cell phone > interface (ASX-2B only). > Thanks, > Vern Little > Vx Aviation > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:30 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice > Attached is a .jpg to best explain this.... > I'm mixing audio into the headset cord, basically. > In the end I will be doing something for both rear > seats, so they have independent music. > Today though I realized something after looking at my > audio panel (PMA8000) wiring info... All of the > rear seat jacks (4 passenger jacks) are all basically > paralleled together. > I tested injecting audio with the attached circuit > using 10 ohm and 100 ohm resistors, and got a > satisfactory music and intercom volume to the headset... > tested using a portable intercom. What I forgot > about was the section in blue....with the other > headsets in parallel. > I'm betting that the resistors will do nothing to > prevent the MUSIC audio from this left seat example from > being heard by the right seat (blue). > It seems to me that I'll need to put some sort > of isolator in the intercom audio line, just > before the 10 ohm resistors, in order to prevent > the music from backfeeding to the other headsets. > Is there a simple way to do this, or am I wrong, and > the resistors if I do a similar circuit on the right, > act as some sort of matching device and prevent > this from happening? > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 12/07/10 07:34:00 > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:49 AM PST US From: "Dennis Johnson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Intermittent Generator Time: 02:50:13 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent Generator Problem It could also be a sticking brush on the field coil. Noel Hi Noel, That's my current guess, too. I think I'll run it some more and see if the problem recurs. If so, I'll remove the alternator and have it repaired. Thanks, Dennis ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:04 AM PST US From: "Dennis Johnson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Intermittent Generator Hi Neal, You suggested heat buildup as a possible cause of my intermittent generator problem. The problem began about 45 minutes into the flight. I was at 17,000' MSL and the temperature was about 14 Deg F. The alternator on my IO-550 is gear driven and mounted at the front of the engine, directly behind one of the two air inlets into the cowling, so I can't imagine heat being a problem. I was running normal loads, the battery was pretty much charged and pitot heat was turned off. I'll take your advice and check all the alternator wiring connectors for loose and corroded connections. Thanks, Dennis ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:34 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice Actually, I just realized that Bob's 9009-700L won't work for me, as stock at least, if I use it per normal operation. It provides for Mono headphone audio, and mixes to Stereo music. I need to have Stereo Headset audio mixed with Stereo Music Audio. It may be that I could build a similar circuit based on the same devices though, to just bring in the stereo audio from the headset as Music audio, and then put it out the other side, where I can use a passive mixer circuit to blend in the ipod audio. Tim On 12/8/2010 9:58 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Hi Vern, > > Yeah, the ASX-2A is pretty close to what I'd be looking > for. I definitely don't need cellphone...it's just > for the kids in the rear seats. Can the auto-mute be > disabled on the ASX-2A? I can't stand it when someone > talks and interrupts my music, and I'm sure the kids would > scream if every time we talked to them their songs > faded away. If it were switchable it would be nice. > > I did, a couple days ago, order a music headphone amp > for each rear seat, that runs on 12V (the Boostaroo Revolution), > so I'm in it for $100 already for amping up the > volume on the ipod audio. They can do 4X boosting. > I tested those 4-resistor passive mixers and even with > no amp the volume was real low but I could tell that > 2X or 4X would be fine. > > So your ASX-2A provides the music boosting I take it, > right? If so, it's definitely a viable option. > > What I'm not clear on yet regarding Bob's Audio Isolation > Amp is if it provides any music boosting. It does say > it's a unity amp, so I'm guessing there is no boost, but > then it also says that you can adjust resistors for > volume levels. I'm itching for a DIY project, actually, > so it's attractive to build that one, but if it doesn't > boost the ipod audio in, then I'm still going to fight > with that. > > My ideal right now, since I've bought about $200 in > switches, parts, and boosters that will be showing up > in the next day or two, would be to find just a > VERY simple audio isolation circuit....one that I > can put inline with the headset audio, and then > do my passive mixer after that. Since I know all > the passive mixer will do what I need, with no > special features, I just need to insure that the > ipod audio doesn't go back through the system to the > other seat. I'm just not clear on what the very > simple 1:1 isolation-only system would be that would > do the job. > > Do you stock your ASX-2A's? > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > On 12/8/2010 9:09 AM, Vern Little wrote: >> If you want independent music capability for each seat, you will need an >> isolation amplifier for each. Also, most music players don't put out >> enough power o provide acceptable audio levels in the cockpit, so the >> passive mixer approach that you are using may not be adequate. >> What I developed to solve this problem are these devices: The ASX-2A and >> the ASX-2B (http://vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#ASX-2B_more). These may >> be overkill if you are looking for something simple, but it neatly >> solves the problem on a per-seat basis and they are very small. >> Additional benefits are the auto-mute capability and the cell phone >> interface (ASX-2B only). >> Thanks, >> Vern Little >> Vx Aviation >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tim Olson >> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:30 AM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice >> Attached is a .jpg to best explain this.... >> I'm mixing audio into the headset cord, basically. >> In the end I will be doing something for both rear >> seats, so they have independent music. >> Today though I realized something after looking at my >> audio panel (PMA8000) wiring info... All of the >> rear seat jacks (4 passenger jacks) are all basically >> paralleled together. >> I tested injecting audio with the attached circuit >> using 10 ohm and 100 ohm resistors, and got a >> satisfactory music and intercom volume to the headset... >> tested using a portable intercom. What I forgot >> about was the section in blue....with the other >> headsets in parallel. >> I'm betting that the resistors will do nothing to >> prevent the MUSIC audio from this left seat example from >> being heard by the right seat (blue). >> It seems to me that I'll need to put some sort >> of isolator in the intercom audio line, just >> before the 10 ohm resistors, in order to prevent >> the music from backfeeding to the other headsets. >> Is there a simple way to do this, or am I wrong, and >> the resistors if I do a similar circuit on the right, >> act as some sort of matching device and prevent >> this from happening? >> -- >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 12/07/10 07:34:00 >> >> * >> >> * > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Music isolation advice At 10:34 AM 12/8/2010, you wrote: > >Actually, I just realized that Bob's 9009-700L won't >work for me, as stock at least, if I use it per normal >operation. It provides for Mono headphone audio, >and mixes to Stereo music. I need to have Stereo >Headset audio mixed with Stereo Music Audio. The 9009 board is easily 'jeeped' to provide two pairs of stereo input. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground The best solution is the ground tab as suggested below. Barring that, check for good continuity between the sensor body and the pipe it is screwed into. If it is making good contact, place a hose clamp around the pipe and attach a ground wire to the clamp. Bill B _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Finley Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Hi Paul, The best option is to replace the sensor with one that has a ground connector (obviously). However; I have run into this same situation a number of times and have never come up with a really good solution (so am listening closely to the responses). The best I have come up is a hose clamp around the sensor with a ground wire underneith it (as you mentioned). The only trick to this seems to be adequately securing the wire against vibration or else it will break (at the hose clamp) over time. Of course (just to spite me I think), the most recent sensor I added was a large hexagon shape which made the hose clamp solution really crude. Jon Finley N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx -----Original Message----- From: "Paul Kuntz" Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2010 7:28am Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Neal, That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads. One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint. Thanks, Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Neal George wrote: Paul - If the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer between the fitting and the manifold is probably not a good idea. Clamping force is required to maintain electrical contact/continuity with the washer, fitting & sensor. NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal. Finding the perfect thickness of washer to fill the gap between the manifold boss and the adapter shoulder while maintaining the correct fit of the NPT threads without over- or under-torquing might be challenging. If it were my airplane, I think I'd drill thru one of the corners of the brass fitting (emulating a safety wire hole) and solder a wire in the hole for the ground. Example photos: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index.html http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled.pdf neal ========== This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any recommendations? Thanks, Paul Kuntz http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com www.buildersbooks.com p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com ======= ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground From: Paul Kuntz Good input, Neal. Thanks. Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Neal George wrote: > The soldered joint presents a manageable risk. > > Two easy options: > > 1- After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and > secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape. > > 2 ' Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor bef ore > soldering. After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat > shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering. > > > There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the lead s, > depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and grou nd, > or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair ' for > convenience, not noise rejection). > > > neal > > ================= > > Neal, > > That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight > threads, not tapered pipe threads. One problem I see with the soldered > ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint. > > Thanks, > Paul > > * > =========== > =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:40 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Sure they're called ring connectors. You will find they are usually copper plated with some metal silver colourted Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson Sent: December 8, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Dont know what brand you are installing, but most gauges come with optional two senders. One like yours and on with the required ground tab. Check the source for that option. Lots more samitary than a workaround with onbly one tab. PaulW ===== At 08:56 PM 12/7/2010, you wrote: This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any recommendations? Thanks, Paul Kuntz http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground At 02:28 PM 12/8/2010, you wrote: >The best solution is the ground tab as suggested below. Barring >that, check for good continuity between the sensor body and the pipe >it is screwed into. If it is making good contact, place a hose >clamp around the pipe and attach a ground wire to the clamp. Is there enough "meat" in the brass hex section to drill and tap a 4-40 hole? If so, consider a tapped hole and PIDG terminal to attach ground wire. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground From: Paul Kuntz Thanks, everyone. Several good suggestions have been offered. Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 02:28 PM 12/8/2010, you wrote: > > The best solution is the ground tab as suggested below. Barring that, > check for good continuity between the sensor body and the pipe it is screwed > into. If it is making good contact, place a hose clamp around the pipe and > attach a ground wire to the clamp. > > > Is there enough "meat" in the brass hex section > to drill and tap a 4-40 hole? If so, consider > a tapped hole and PIDG terminal to attach ground > wire. > > Bob . . . > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.