---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/09/10: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:41 AM - Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (user9253) 2. 05:41 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Noel Loveys) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Intermittent Generator (Noel Loveys) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Noel Loveys) 5. 08:19 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? () 6. 08:25 AM - Re: Water temp sensor ground (Neal George) 7. 08:51 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (Tim Andres) 8. 09:22 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (DeWitt Whittington) 9. 10:26 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (Bob Meyers) 10. 10:42 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (bob noffs) 11. 10:48 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (Bob Meyers) 12. 11:01 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (Bob Meyers) 13. 11:04 AM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 02:50 PM - Re: Avionics ground bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 06:14 PM - Re: G530 TX Issue (hooverra) 16. 07:41 PM - Re: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? (F. Tim Yoder) 17. 10:09 PM - Re: Re: Avionics ground bus (tim2542@sbcglobal.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? From: "user9253" This document by Eggenfellner http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf says, > "Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger. Never use a regular automotive charger and especially never use a trickle charger as these do not provide proper charge voltage or currents." This is not true is it? Thanks, Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:23 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground You may also use a clamp to attach a ground braid to the pipe itself and then attach the other end of the braid to a suitable ground. If you want a little cleaner job silver solder either a tang or a nut to the pipe and use that to attach the braid. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Finley Sent: December 8, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Hi Paul, The best option is to replace the sensor with one that has a ground connector (obviously). However; I have run into this same situation a number of times and have never come up with a really good solution (so am listening closely to the responses). The best I have come up is a hose clamp around the sensor with a ground wire underneith it (as you mentioned). The only trick to this seems to be adequately securing the wire against vibration or else it will break (at the hose clamp) over time. Of course (just to spite me I think), the most recent sensor I added was a large hexagon shape which made the hose clamp solution really crude. Jon Finley N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx -----Original Message----- From: "Paul Kuntz" Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2010 7:28am Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Neal, That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads. One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint. Thanks, Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Neal George wrote: Paul =93 If the brass fitting had NPT threads, trying to clamp a tabbed washer between the fitting and the manifold is probably not a good idea. Clamping force is required to maintain electrical contact/continuity with the washer, fitting & sensor. NPT threads depend on taper & interference fit to seal. Finding the perfect thickness of washer to fill the gap between the manifold boss and the adapter shoulder while maintaining the correct fit of the NPT threads without over- or under-torquing might be challenging. If it were my airplane, I think I=99d drill thru one of the corners of the brass fitting (emulating a safety wire hole) and solder a wire in the hole for the ground. Example photos: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10147/index. html http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nuts_corner_drilled.pdf neal This photo shows a water temperature sensor in the coolant manifold riser on my Rotax 912 installation. It's the brass-colored fitting screwed into the end of the short horizontal tube in the middle of the photo. The sensor needs a ground, but the coolant manifold is connected by rubber hoses to the engine, so it's not presently grounded. I would prefer to ground the sensor with a tabbed copper washer under the sensor itself, to which I could attach a ground wire, but I don't know a source. I suppose I could fabricate one myself, but I'd rather buy one if they are available. Alternatively, I could screw a hose clamp around the manifold and ground the clamp. Any recommendations? Thanks, Paul Kuntz http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com www.buildersbooks.com p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.c om======== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:04 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Intermittent Generator You may also want to check the point where the F lead attaches to the alternator. I'm still betting on sticky brushes. My experience is, that only happens when the brushes are well worn. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson Sent: December 8, 2010 12:43 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Intermittent Generator Hi Neal, You suggested heat buildup as a possible cause of my intermittent generator problem. The problem began about 45 minutes into the flight. I was at 17,000' MSL and the temperature was about 14 Deg F. The alternator on my IO-550 is gear driven and mounted at the front of the engine, directly behind one of the two air inlets into the cowling, so I can't imagine heat being a problem. I was running normal loads, the battery was pretty much charged and pitot heat was turned off. I'll take your advice and check all the alternator wiring connectors for loose and corroded connections. Thanks, Dennis ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:01 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Soldering is not a good idea especially in areas of high vibration like the engine. Solder wicks up into wire and cause a point where all the vibration bending is concentrated on one small point. This can cause the wire to break at that point. Better to use a crimp fitting or just attach the ground to the pipe with a clamp. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kuntz Sent: December 8, 2010 5:11 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Good input, Neal. Thanks. Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Neal George wrote: The soldered joint presents a manageable risk. Two easy options: 1- After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape. 2 - Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering. After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering. There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair - for convenience, not noise rejection). neal ================= Neal, That's not a bad idea, although this particular fitting has straight threads, not tapered pipe threads. One problem I see with the soldered ground wire is the possibility of wire fatigue at the solder joint. Thanks, Paul "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? From: Total garbage, but nice marketing for Christmas. If they are using something other than DC Volts in their battery, let me know. What you will need to do is leave them on the charger for at least overnight. That so called deep-cell marketing stuff needs extra time to ensure a good charge. If there is any draw on your battery when your ship is parked, they drop off pretty fast. They are good when they are fully charged. They are good book ends when not. If you need real power... http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/22/the-bloom-box-a-power-plant-for-the-h ome-video/ http://www.bloomenergy.com/ Glenn E. Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:37 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? This document by Eggenfellner http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallation Guide.pdf says, > "Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger. Never use a regular automotive charger and especially never use a trickle charger as these do not provide proper charge voltage or currents." This is not true is it? Thanks, Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:34 AM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Water temp sensor ground Very true, Noel - Thus the admonition to immobilize the joint and a short length of the associated lead. neal ===================== Soldering is not a good idea especially in areas of high vibration like the engine. Solder wicks up into wire and cause a point where all the vibration bending is concentrated on one small point. This can cause the wire to break at that point. Better to use a crimp fitting or just attach the ground to the pipe with a clamp. Noel ============== Good input, Neal. Thanks. Paul On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Neal George wrote: The soldered joint presents a manageable risk. Two easy options: 1- After soldering the joint, wrap the wire around the sensor once and secure with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape. 2 - Manipulate the wire to make it lay along the axis of the sensor before soldering. After soldering, bind the wire to the sensor body with heat shrink or self-fusing silicone tape after soldering. There are many variations on exactly how to route, lay and affix the leads, depending on whether you plan to use individual wires for signal and ground, or some sort of paired conductor (shielded or twisted pair - for convenience, not noise rejection). neal ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:55 AM PST US From: Tim Andres Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? From ODYSSEY's site: http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-008_1010.pdf Also I note that the charges they sell use 3 sequential charge currents. This may be of use in the Deep cycle application and of course your alternator does not know if you have an ODYSSEY or a Sears & Robuck battery. I cant imagine it would not get a complete charge after a few hours with 14 VDC on it. Tim Andres > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:06 AM PST US From: DeWitt Whittington Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? This is true. We bought one of the special charger for our dual 680s from www.BatteryMat.com . On the advice of our friend who is flying his Sportsman, we bought the 12amp model so it would keep the batteries up when we were sitting in the cockpit for long periods learning how to use our full glass panel. Odyssey Ultimizer 12 Volt 12 Amp Battery Charger $98.50 plus shipping FINALLY, IT=92S HERE! The Ultimizer=99 range of 12V chargers has been custom designed to maximize the performance you can get from your ODYSSEY=99 battery. These sophisticated chargers are powerful enough to quickly charge the battery and safe enough to leave them connected to your... >Specifications: Part # ODY-OMAX-12A-1B Length 9 3/4" Width 3 1/4" Height 7 3/4" 6' AC Power Cord 6" DC Charging Leads with 50 Amp Clamps 12 Amp DC Output Dee At 08:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote: > >This document by Eggenfellner >http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallationGui de.pdf > >says, > > "Odyssey type batteries require a special > type of charger. Never use a regular automotive > charger and especially never use a trickle > charger as these do not provide proper charge voltage or currents." > >This is not true is it? >Thanks, Joe > >-------- >Joe Gores > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 > > DeWitt (Dee) Whittington 406 N Mulberry St Richmond, VA 23220-3320 (804) 358-4333 phone and fax SKYPE: hilltopkid dee.whittington@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:29 AM PST US From: Bob Meyers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? Not only is it not true, Odyssey doesn't claim it is true. Odyssey makes a line of chargers that they will be happy to sell you, but they also publish detailed specs that will let you evaluate the suitability of any charger - of which most automotive chargers will work just fine. Most significantly they warn about using any charger that exceeds 15v. Since no charger should really do that, it is usually only the cheapest, most poorly made chargers that you have to worry about. The above is the only thing that they warn can damage the battery. The rest of their caveats talk about how best to achieve 100% SOC and what you may may have to do depending on the charger you have. Bob Meyers Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com On Dec 9, 2010, at 7:37 AM, user9253 wrote: > > > > This document by Eggenfellner > http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf > says, >> "Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger. Never >> use a regular automotive charger and especially never use a trickle >> charger as these do not provide proper charge voltage or currents." > > This is not true is it? > Thanks, Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? From: bob noffs fwiw, for several yrs i have had a schumacher [ mod 1362?] battery tender connected to my 625. as far as i can tell it works as well as when new. constant voltage regulation has n't been a problem. you can pick them up new on ebay for $25. bob noffs On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Bob Meyers wrote: > bobmeyers@meyersfamily.org> > > Not only is it not true, Odyssey doesn't claim it is true. Odyssey makes a > line of chargers that they will be happy to sell you, but they also publish > detailed specs that will let you evaluate the suitability of any charger - > of which most automotive chargers will work just fine. > > Most significantly they warn about using any charger that exceeds 15v. > Since no charger should really do that, it is usually only the cheapest, > most poorly made chargers that you have to worry about. > > The above is the only thing that they warn can damage the battery. The > rest of their caveats talk about how best to achieve 100% SOC and what you > may may have to do depending on the charger you have. > > Bob Meyers > > Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com > > > On Dec 9, 2010, at 7:37 AM, user9253 wrote: > >> > >> >> This document by Eggenfellner >> >> http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf >> says, >> >>> "Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger. Never use a >>> regular automotive charger and especially never use a trickle charger as >>> these do not provide proper charge voltage or currents." >>> >> >> This is not true is it? >> Thanks, Joe >> >> -------- >> Joe Gores >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:03 AM PST US From: Bob Meyers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? The Manual TIm has linked to is a good document, but for a more detailed look at charging Odyssey batteries, their ''Application Manual" is more complete. Again, although they say how perfect their chargers are for their batteries, it is clear that a wide range of devices can charge their batteries. As they discuss, a low amperage 13.5 volt trickle charger may simply take a long time. Here is the link. Note pages 12 - 15 discuss charging and chargers. http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-AM-001_0406.pdf Bob Meyers Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com Bob Meyers Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com On Dec 9, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Bob Meyers wrote: > > > > Not only is it not true, Odyssey doesn't claim it is true. Odyssey > makes a line of chargers that they will be happy to sell you, but > they also publish detailed specs that will let you evaluate the > suitability of any charger - of which most automotive chargers will > work just fine. > > Most significantly they warn about using any charger that exceeds > 15v. Since no charger should really do that, it is usually only the > cheapest, most poorly made chargers that you have to worry about. > > The above is the only thing that they warn can damage the battery. > The rest of their caveats talk about how best to achieve 100% SOC > and what you may may have to do depending on the charger you have. > > Bob Meyers > > Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com > > > On Dec 9, 2010, at 7:37 AM, user9253 wrote: > >> > >> >> This document by Eggenfellner >> http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf >> says, >>> "Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger. Never >>> use a regular automotive charger and especially never use a >>> trickle charger as these do not provide proper charge voltage or >>> currents." >> >> This is not true is it? >> Thanks, Joe >> >> -------- >> Joe Gores >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:36 AM PST US From: Bob Meyers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? Yes, I hope I didn't imply that cheap wouldn't work, only that some of them may not perform correctly. That is easy to monitor when you start using a new charger. Bob Meyers Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com On Dec 9, 2010, at 12:39 PM, bob noffs wrote: > fwiw, for several yrs i have had a schumacher [ mod 1362?] battery > tender connected to my 625. as far as i can tell it works as well as > when new. constant voltage regulation has n't been a problem. you > can pick them up new on ebay for $25. > bob noffs > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Bob Meyers > wrote: > > > > Not only is it not true, Odyssey doesn't claim it is true. Odyssey > makes a line of chargers that they will be happy to sell you, but > they also publish detailed specs that will let you evaluate the > suitability of any charger - of which most automotive chargers will > work just fine. > > Most significantly they warn about using any charger that exceeds > 15v. Since no charger should really do that, it is usually only the > cheapest, most poorly made chargers that you have to worry about. > > The above is the only thing that they warn can damage the battery. > The rest of their caveats talk about how best to achieve 100% SOC > and what you may may have to do depending on the charger you have. > > Bob Meyers > > Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com > > > On Dec 9, 2010, at 7:37 AM, user9253 wrote: > > > > > This document by Eggenfellner > http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Stuff-to-link-to/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf > says, > "Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger. Never use > a regular automotive charger and especially never use a trickle > charger as these do not provide proper charge voltage or currents." > > This is not true is it? > Thanks, Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322731#322731 > > > he Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on > /" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com > http:/r generous support! > he Matronics List Features Navigator to browse > s.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ============= > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? At 10:48 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote: > > From ODYSSEY's site: > >http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-008_1010.pdf > >Also I note that the charges they sell use 3 sequential charge >currents. This may be of use in the Deep cycle application and of >course your alternator does not know if you have an ODYSSEY or a >Sears & Robuck battery. I cant imagine it would not get a complete >charge after a few hours with 14 VDC on it. >Tim Andres Right on. The Internet driven dispersal of floobydust about SVLA battery charging has been waxing and waning for at least ten years. Bottom line is that EVERY manufacturer of battery has good reason to recommend/discourage a battery charging philosophy . . . but for reasons that are usually not known to us and is probably irrelevant. The folks at the factory may have conducted many detailed studies with a goal of knowing (1) how their product performs and (2) how to make that performance stand a tad taller than the competition. As Tim noted, once you bolt the battery to your airplane, ALL bets for achieving the greatest possible service life are off. This is because the probability that any given battery is asked to perform in laboratory conditions is zero. The problem is further compounded when folks who sell batteries mix decades of ol' mechanics lore with ideas taken from the new supplier's 4-color brochures. Mix the 'right' ingredients and clouds of floobydust explode. There is no such thing as a modern "trickle" charger which is, by definition, a small but CONSTANT CURRENT charger. Trickle chargers are mildly abusive of a flooded battery ('cause you can put in more water) and poison to an SVLA battery ('cause you can't put in more water). Many small chargers (1/2 amp to perhaps 2 amps capability) are often mis-identified as "trickle chargers" based only on their electrical size. In fact, I'm aware of NO modern product at any price that does not go into some form of constant SUSTAINING voltage after spending some time at a bulk charge or TOP-OFF voltage. These are BATTERY MAINTAINERS. The least expensive device at WalMart are entirely suitable for charging/maintaining any brand/size of SVLA battery. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Ideal_Recharge_Protocol.jpg How close do the market place chargers come to meeting the "ideal recharge protocol"? http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Minder_Recharge.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_4.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_5.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_6.jpg Not many. How much difference will it make in the demonstrated service life in YOUR airplane. Not much. Check out the offerings of Professor Battery (Isador Buchmann) at . . . http://batteryuniversity.com/learn Finally, exhortations for application or black- listing of any modern product as a battery charger need to be filtered integrity of the physics and/or relevance in your proposed application. As Tim noted, your alternator/regulator combo doesn't read Battery Digest. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:36 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics ground bus At 09:55 AM 12/7/2010, you wrote: > > >Some parts on order for the first production batch will >be here tomorrow. I'm about 1/3 completed with the >instruction manual. I'll put it up on the website >catalog and order form tomorrow. I've got a pretty good first whack at the installation manual for the instrument panel ground bus. http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9031/IM9031-700A.pdf the first orders are shipping today. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:03 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: G530 TX Issue From: "hooverra" Glen, You didn't say if it ever worked. From the symptoms you present it would appear to be the mic audio connection from the audio panel to the to the 530. Other com working says the mic and audio input is OK. The TX indicator and breaking squelch on the Hand Held Radio says the Mic Key and transmitter are working. You could have a defective Audio panel output or 530 Mic input but it is more likely a connection issue. Use a couple of pins crimped to a pair of stiff wires so you can probe the tray connectors and check continuity of both the Mic high and Mic Return lines. You will probably find A. A pin in the wrong place, B. A pin retracted from the connector, C. A bad crimp or D. A broken wire. I had a similar symptom on an RV-10 with a 430 it was A pin in the wrong position. If it ever worked then I would suspect B Good luck -------- Ralph & Laura Hoover RV7A N527LR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322796#322796 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:47 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? What kind of Alternator do you get that produces 3 sequential charge currents for the Odyssey? Well, I thought it was funny. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:02 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey type batteries require a special type of charger? > > > At 10:48 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote: >> >> >> From ODYSSEY's site: >> >>http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-008_1010.pdf >> >>Also I note that the charges they sell use 3 sequential charge currents. >>This may be of use in the Deep cycle application and of course your >>alternator does not know if you have an ODYSSEY or a Sears & Robuck >>battery. I cant imagine it would not get a complete charge after a few >>hours with 14 VDC on it. >>Tim Andres > > Right on. The Internet driven dispersal of > floobydust about SVLA battery charging has been > waxing and waning for at least ten years. > > Bottom line is that EVERY manufacturer of battery > has good reason to recommend/discourage a battery > charging philosophy . . . but for reasons that > are usually not known to us and is probably > irrelevant. > > The folks at the factory may have conducted many > detailed studies with a goal of knowing (1) how > their product performs and (2) how to make that > performance stand a tad taller than the competition. > > As Tim noted, once you bolt the battery to your > airplane, ALL bets for achieving the greatest > possible service life are off. This is because > the probability that any given battery is asked > to perform in laboratory conditions is zero. > > The problem is further compounded when folks who > sell batteries mix decades of ol' mechanics lore > with ideas taken from the new supplier's 4-color > brochures. Mix the 'right' ingredients and clouds > of floobydust explode. > > There is no such thing as a modern "trickle" charger > which is, by definition, a small but CONSTANT > CURRENT charger. Trickle chargers are mildly abusive > of a flooded battery ('cause you can put in more > water) and poison to an SVLA battery ('cause you > can't put in more water). > > Many small chargers (1/2 amp to perhaps 2 amps > capability) are often mis-identified as "trickle > chargers" based only on their electrical size. > > In fact, I'm aware of NO modern product at any > price that does not go into some form of constant > SUSTAINING voltage after spending some time at > a bulk charge or TOP-OFF voltage. These are BATTERY > MAINTAINERS. The least expensive device at WalMart are > entirely suitable for charging/maintaining any > brand/size of SVLA battery. > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Ideal_Recharge_Protocol.jpg > > How close do the market place chargers come to meeting > the "ideal recharge protocol"? > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Minder_Recharge.pdf > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_2.jpg > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_4.jpg > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_5.jpg > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_6.jpg > > Not many. > > How much difference will it make in the demonstrated > service life in YOUR airplane. Not much. > > Check out the offerings of Professor Battery > (Isador Buchmann) at . . . > > http://batteryuniversity.com/learn > > Finally, exhortations for application or black- > listing of any modern product as a battery charger > need to be filtered integrity of the physics and/or > relevance in your proposed application. > > As Tim noted, your alternator/regulator combo > doesn't read Battery Digest. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:14 PM PST US From: tim2542@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics ground bus Hello Bob I order a grnd bus on your site and was expecting an email to complete the order with pay pal. No hurry but just wondering if I did not get the order complete Thanks Tim Andres Sent from my iPhone On Dec 9, 2010, at 2:46 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 09:55 AM 12/7/2010, you wrote: >> >> Some parts on order for the first production batch will >> be here tomorrow. I'm about 1/3 completed with the >> instruction manual. I'll put it up on the website >> catalog and order form tomorrow. > > I've got a pretty good first whack at the installation > manual for the instrument panel ground bus. > > http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9031/IM9031-700A.pdf > > the first orders are shipping today. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.