AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 12/20/10


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question (Mike Welch)
     3. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question (Mike Welch)
     4. 09:35 AM - Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question (user9253)
     5. 12:04 PM - Re: (off topic) Aircraft Ground to the hangar floor when parked (Geoff Heap)
     6. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: moving batteries (James Robinson)
     7. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: moving batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 02:10 PM - supplementing the A/F ratio (Mike Welch)
     9. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: Battery Relay post too short (Noel R.C. Loveys)
    10. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Battery Relay post too short (Harley)
    11. 03:07 PM - Belt & suspenders? (Tim Andres)
    12. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Battery Relay post too short (Noel R.C. Loveys)
    13. 07:02 PM - Re: Belt & suspenders? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:17:16 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question
    At 04:55 PM 12/19/2010, you wrote: > >Mike, >If you decide to use this voltmeter, >http://www.murata-ps.com/data/meters/20lcd.pdf >I do not think that it will be necessary to use a dual pot for >isolation. The meter has an input impedance of 800K. The voltmeter is a good lick whether or not it's left in place permanently. The thermistor being "spoofed" has a temperature vs. resistance characteristic that probably going to yield some narrow range of readings for normal operating conditions. I'd guess replacing the thermistor with just a potentiometer will provide at best a very coarse adjustment and only a small percentage of the pot's travel will be used. It would be useful to have a voltmeter in place to quantify the adjustment rage for normal operations and then tailor some form of circuitry to emulate that range with large, high resolution rotation of the pot. A ten-turn pot is probably overkill but it's a very practical design goal to have normal ops settings to use 80 percent of the potentiometer's travel with say 10% head and foot-room at each end. Crafting the circuit is easy but we need data. How much current flows in the thermistor sense lead and what voltages exist across the thermistor a the extreme ends of the operating range? From the operating ergonomics perspective, it would be better for the final configuration not to have a voltmeter. If this is a mixture control then you probably have "feedback" for optimal settings already in terms of EGT, oxygen sensor, engine smoothness, rpm drops from peak, etc. etc. ADDING another instrument to be observed, perceived, pondered and reacted to is probably going the wrong direction . . . Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:45:05 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question
    > But in this application=2C you are not looking for an exact voltage measu rement=2C only the ability to repeatably set the voltage where the engine w ill run best. A voltmeter will certainly be more precise than a LED bar-gra ph. > The first step is to measure the maximum voltage across the pot=2C then b uy a meter with the correct part number for that voltage range. Connecting the meter to the aircraft is easy. Use a 7805 voltage regulator to power th e meter pins 1 & 3=2C connect pins 7 & 8 together=2C and connect pins 11 & 12 to each side of the rheostat. If you want a decimal point=2C connect pin 3 to pin 4 or 5 or 6. > I do not want to give Mike bad advice=3B so opposing views are welcome. > Joe Hi Joe=2C You are correct=2C I don't need to know a precise value of voltage=2C onl y a consistant one that I can duplicate fairly quickly. I would suspect there may be 3-4 maximum readings=2C i.e. take-off=2C climb-out=2C X-C fast cruise. I'd also guess most of the other RPM parameters would not even need any o f the "coolant temperature sensor mod" contributions. With the stock ECU able to handle up to approx. 5 PSI boost=2C the DVM is going to be ONLY high RPM/high engi ne power ranges=2C no CTS mod necessary. I don't understand what you mean when you say "first step measure max vol tage across the pot" and then buy the right meter. Do you mean=3B after it is i nstalled on the plane=2C and in operation=2C and the engine is taking a reading of the pot? This electrical expertise is above my experience level. One more quick question=3B I follow you with all the pin connections=2C except for the two pot connections (#11 &#12). Would these be hooked up in parallel with the CTS? Thanks a million=2C Mike Welch


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:26:43 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question
    > From the operating ergonomics perspective=2C it > would be better for the final configuration > not to have a voltmeter. If this is a mixture control > then you probably have "feedback" for optimal > settings already in terms of EGT=2C oxygen sensor=2C > engine smoothness=2C rpm drops from peak=2C etc. etc. > ADDING another instrument to be observed=2C perceived=2C > pondered and reacted to is probably going the > wrong direction . . . > > > > > Bob . . . Hi Bob=2C You do bring up a VERY valid point re: more complexities!! I do have a d igital EGT unit/gage w/ alarm function=2C a digital boost gage/w alarm=2C a wideband 02 sensor a nd digital gage. I hadn't thought about it before=2C but rather than rely on any additiona l stuff=2C maybe I should consider using the alarm functions to enrichen the A/F ratio? In a high demand power situation (high boost)=2C it is possible the EGT c ould register high temps (being too lean). Same thing goes for the boost gage. Supposedly an ything 5 psi and below is all automatically taken care of by the stock ECU. I think I should fire the engine up=2C do some measurements=2C and THEN f igure out which way to proceed. I am very close to being able to getting it running. The panels are in t he process of being installed=2C and then I just need a couple of days to complete the misc. wi ring and odds & ends. Here is a link to the EGT & Boost gages I have=3B http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&produc ts_id=19&zenid=0aefca50e3651c54f87b3f3b7bf09f10 At his point=2C I think I need data before I should proceed. Thanks for your help=2C Mike Welch


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:35:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: LM3914 Bar Graph circuit question
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    > I don't understand what you mean when you say "first step measure max voltage across the pot" and then buy the right meter. The panel mount voltmeter that I suggested does not have a user selected voltage range like some hand-held meters. You have to buy the correct model number for the expected voltage range. If the voltage across the rheostat is 150mv, the 200mv model is the one to buy, not the 20volt model. Unless you have some documentation about the circuit parameters, it will be necessary to measure (with a portable meter) the voltage drop across the rheostat with the circuit in operation. Then buy a panel mount meter. You asked, " > I follow you with all the pin connections, except for the > two pot connections (#11 &#12). Would these be hooked up in parallel with the CTS?" I am not sure what you mean by CTS, but the meter input pins 11 & 12 would connect in parallel with the rheostat. I assume that you purchased a 5K pot because others have used it with success. If it turns out that the pot gives coarse adjustments that make fine tuning difficult, it might help to put a fixed resistor in parallel with the pot. Eventually when you get everything working to your satisfaction, and determine the optimum resistance values for takeoff, climb, and cruise, then fixed resistors and a selector switch could be substituted for the pot. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323910#323910


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:04:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: (off topic) Aircraft Ground to the hangar floor
    when parked
    From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
    This would explain all the exploding hangars all over the country...Geoff -------- Dual controls. Dynon 180. Icom 210 Garmin 296. Becker transponder. Sigtronics intercom. Electric flaperons. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323925#323925


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:06:01 PM PST US
    From: James Robinson <jbr79r@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: moving batteries
    Hi Bob You sent me a response to my question about relocating my batteries. >>>> I'd put the battery busses, and battery contactors adjacent to their respective batteries. Run a 2AWG ground forward for BOTH batteries and 4AWG feeders for each battery to the cross-feed contactor on the firewall.<<<< I have the battery contactores ,x feed contactor and starter contactor in a neat package on the firewall. What is the reason for moving the battery contactor back with the batteries behind the seat. There are some location problems I am trying to resolve. Jim James Robinson Glasair lll N79R Spanish Fork UT U77


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:28:08 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: moving batteries
    At 03:02 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: >Hi Bob >You sent me a response to my question about relocating my batteries. > > >>>> I'd put the battery busses, and battery contactors > adjacent to their respective batteries. Run a 2AWG > ground forward for BOTH batteries and 4AWG feeders > for each battery to the cross-feed contactor on the > firewall.<<<< > >I have the battery contactores ,x feed contactor and starter >contactor in a neat package on the firewall. What is the reason for >moving the battery contactor back with the batteries behind the >seat. There are some location problems I am trying to resolve. Battery contactors and battery busses are classically located in close proximity to their respective batteries. Note the "*" symbol on the fat wires between batteries and battery busses in the z-figures. This says keep 'em short. This minimizes the lengths of always hot wires when the master switch is off. It's a crash safety thing. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:10:47 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: supplementing the A/F ratio
    Hi Bob N & Joe=2C You guys both appear to have a very good handle on the objective I'm trying to achieve. You also understand the coolant temperature sensor (CTS) pretty good=2C too=2C and likely how it instructs the ECU to enrich the A/F ratio due what it perceives as a 'cold engine'. Since I'm reasonably close to being able to fire the engine up=2C I think I need to see how things perform=2C get some measurements=2C pin down exactly what I'm up against and then ask for advice how to solve a more specific task. But=2C before I can get back to installing my pre-assembled instrument panel=2C I have to seal my storm cellar from leaks. Crap always seems to get in the way of having fun!! Thanks for your help=2C guys=2C I'll get back to you later on this subjec t with better information. Mike Welch


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:50:53 PM PST US
    From: "Noel R.C. Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: Battery Relay post too short
    I think it comes in three grades too... just have a look http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_us/hs.xsl/product-search-1554.ht m?&param1=pageIndex%3D0|action%3Dsearch|y%3D0|x%3D0|applicationRedDotUID%3D0 00000026R|subsubapplicationRedDotUID%3D|advanced%3D|subapplicationRedDotUID% 3D00000002AD|brandRedDotUID%3D0000000389| For some of them you will need to have money... lots of money! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Reynolds Sent: December 19, 2010 8:13 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Relay post too short <richardreynolds@cox.net> Be careful, I think Loctite comes in 3 grades. (You need to check!!) Red, Forever, 600F to break it loose. Blue, Not quite forever Green, Pipe sealant Richard Reynolds Norfolk VA RV-6A - N841RV On Dec 18, 2010, at 6:01 PM, rvg8tor wrote: > > Thanks everyone for the inputs, I will try the Loctite idea. > > Mike > > -------- > Mike &quot;Nemo&quot; Elliott > RV-8A QB (Fuselage) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323782#323782 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:01:30 PM PST US
    From: Harley <harley@AgelessWings.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery Relay post too short
    3 grades? According to that link you tried to send, it's 50! So others can see it, let's try it this way: http://tinyurl.com/24ujwsk Harley ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 12/20/2010 5:46 PM, Noel R.C. Loveys wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel R.C. Loveys"<noelloveys@yahoo.ca> > > I think it comes in three grades too... just have a look > http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_us/hs.xsl/product-search-1554.ht > m?&param1=pageIndex%3D0|action%3Dsearch|y%3D0|x%3D0|applicationRedDotUID%3D0 > 00000026R|subsubapplicationRedDotUID%3D|advanced%3D|subapplicationRedDotUID% > 3D00000002AD|brandRedDotUID%3D0000000389| > > > For some of them you will need to have money... lots of money! > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard > Reynolds > Sent: December 19, 2010 8:13 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Relay post too short > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Reynolds > <richardreynolds@cox.net> > > Be careful, I think Loctite comes in 3 grades. (You need to check!!) > > Red, Forever, 600F to break it loose. > Blue, Not quite forever > Green, Pipe sealant > > Richard Reynolds > Norfolk VA > RV-6A - N841RV > > > On Dec 18, 2010, at 6:01 PM, rvg8tor wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rvg8tor"<rvg8tor@comcast.net> >> >> Thanks everyone for the inputs, I will try the Loctite idea. >> >> Mike >> >> -------- >> Mike&quot;Nemo&quot; Elliott >> RV-8A QB (Fuselage) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323782#323782 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:07:43 PM PST US
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Belt & suspenders?
    Any idea why Icom (& others I believe) would call for 2X18 awg wires for power and ground to their radio? The load is well under 10 amps and for the short 12" run to my Avionics/Ground bus it seems like "hyper safe" Thanks, Tim Andres


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:57:30 PM PST US
    From: "Noel R.C. Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: Battery Relay post too short
    Thanks Harley Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Sent: December 20, 2010 7:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Relay post too short 3 grades? According to that link you tried to send, it's 50! So others can see it, let's try it this way: http://tinyurl.com/24ujwsk Harley _____ On 12/20/2010 5:46 PM, Noel R.C. Loveys wrote: <mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> I think it comes in three grades too... just have a look http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_us/hs.xsl/product-search-1554.ht m?&param1=pageIndex%3D0|action%3Dsearch|y%3D0|x%3D0|applicationRedDotUID%3D0 00000026R|subsubapplicationRedDotUID%3D|advanced%3D|subapplicationRedDotUID% 3D00000002AD|brandRedDotUID%3D0000000389| For some of them you will need to have money... lots of money! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Reynolds Sent: December 19, 2010 8:13 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Relay post too short <mailto:richardreynolds@cox.net> <richardreynolds@cox.net> Be careful, I think Loctite comes in 3 grades. (You need to check!!) Red, Forever, 600F to break it loose. Blue, Not quite forever Green, Pipe sealant Richard Reynolds Norfolk VA RV-6A - N841RV On Dec 18, 2010, at 6:01 PM, rvg8tor wrote: <mailto:rvg8tor@comcast.net> <rvg8tor@comcast.net> Thanks everyone for the inputs, I will try the Loctite idea. Mike -------- Mike &quot;Nemo&quot; Elliott RV-8A QB (Fuselage) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323782#323782


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:02:32 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Belt & suspenders?
    At 05:04 PM 12/20/2010, you wrote: > >Any idea why Icom (& others I believe) would call for 2X18 awg wires >for power and ground to their radio? The load is well under 10 amps >and for the short 12" run to my Avionics/Ground bus it seems like "hyper safe" Not all runs are under 12". They're looking for redundancy + low impedance connections. You can drop to 20AWG for the 12" runs but do put both in. I think they ask for dual power leads too? Bob . . .




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