AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 01/06/11


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:50 AM - Re: Pulse Wave Modulation Dimmers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 05:41 AM - Re: VM1000 backlighting dimming (Ralph E. Capen)
     3. 05:41 AM - Re: Z-14 Dual Battery, dual alternator. Wire sizing, educate me please. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 07:45 AM - Re: VM1000 backlighting dimming (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 07:50 AM - Re: Switch circuitry/function terminology (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 09:00 AM - Re: Switch circuitry/function terminology (Andy Hawes)
     7. 09:00 AM - Re: Switch circuitry/function terminology (Andy Hawes)
     8. 12:57 PM - Re: Z-14 Dual Battery, dual alternator. Wire sizing, educate me please. (Terry Mortimore)
     9. 07:04 PM - VM1000 backlighting dimming (Charles Brame)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:50:19 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Pulse Wave Modulation Dimmers
    >I used one, the first one was bad out of the box, I didn't discover >it until several months had passed but ACS replaced it after some >"discussions". >One thing though, I'm told PWM will not dim most avionics. Avionics with LCD screens often use florescent tubes for backlighting. These lamps use hv power supply/ballast assembly that does not function well at lower voltages conductive to "dim" operations. Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:41:34 AM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: VM1000 backlighting dimming
    Dean, I replaced my original VM1000 shortly after Vision Microsystems was sold. If I recall correctly, Mr. Turk (I think that was his name) was still available through the company that purchased Vision Microsystems. You might try contacting him through the new company. I don't know if I have enough components remaining to cobble it back together to answer your question as I have been parting out the remnants of mine in hopes of keeping as many of the old systems alive as possible. Let us know how this pans out as there are a number of us in the curious mode.... Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> >Sent: Jan 6, 2011 1:55 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: VM1000 backlighting dimming > > > >A question for both Bob and VM1000 owners with the original (black and >white) LCD display: > >Situation: I bought the VM1000 system in 2002 but it wasn't operating in >the airplane until 2008. Flying at dusk I notice that the LCD screen >backlighting works but is not bright enough for me to read the display. The >VM1000 manual says the backlighting power is generated by a 0-80 volt AC >inverter inside the VM1000 CPU box and that the inverter output is >proportional to the DC voltage on the dimming input of the CPU connector. >The manual notes that full brightness will be achieved when close to full >battery voltage is input at the dimming connection. Unfortunately it does >NOT say exactly what value of "close to full battery voltage" is required to >get full brightness. > > >Bob: > >I installed a B&C dimmer (DIM 5-14, half amp output max) on the dimming >input of the VM1000 CPU connector. I got to talking with someone about the >output of this device and a question came up as to exactly how close to bus >voltage is output when the control is set to full output. I can't recall, is >the output pulse width modulated, and if so, does the device ever achieve a >full bus level output voltage? Or, if the LM317 is a linear device, is the >DIM 5-14 circuit designed to achieve a full bus level output voltage when >the pot is set to full output? If not what percentage of full bus voltage >can I expect? Also, if the DIM 5-14 output is too low can I remove the >circuit board from the equation and just connect the potentiometer (that is >supplied with the DIM 5-14) between the Essential bus and the VM1000 dimming >input to achieve full voltage at the VM1000 dimming input (in other words, >is the potentiometer robust enough for this task or will I burn it up)? Any >other words of wisdom you care to pass on? > > >VM1000 Owners: > >Have any of you come up against this issue? What did you do to solve it? >Were you using a B&C dimmer or some other device? Being the original >designer/owner of Vision Microsystems sold the company and disappeared, does >anyone know exactly what percent of battery voltage is required to get full >output on the display? What failure modes does the display backlighting >system exhibit (i.e. if the backlight works is it just insufficient dimming >input voltage that makes the brightness too low or does the inverter circuit >have failure modes that set the backlighting to some intermediate >brightness)? If so what are those failure modes and can the circuit be >repaired to restore output to full brightness. > >Thanks everyone > >Dean Psiropoulos >RV-6A N197DM >2 years of flying fun > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:41:58 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z-14 Dual Battery, dual alternator. Wire sizing,
    educate me please. At 06:55 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote: ><terry.mortimore@shaw.ca> > > >Hi Gang: > >I"m about to start the installation of the Z-14 system into my RV-6A. Why are you putting the mother of all electrical systems into an airplane that is not likely to use/need a small fraction of the capability? This system was conceived to meet mission requirements of airplanes like the Lancair IVP flown for long distances at high altitudes, perhaps over hostile terrain at night while flitting about between pockets of unfriendly weather. 99% of all OBAM flight profiles do not demand so high a level of risk reduction in the electrical system. 99% of all accidents do not have root causes in electrical system failures. So it would seem that Z13/8 would provide a level of reliability 10X better than type certificated aircraft but with a lot less expense and WEIGHT associated with Z-14. Can you tell us how your utilization of the airplane will realize a good return on investment for trading fuel and baggage weights for hardware? > I've absorbed and understand most of the drawing, but one thing > confuses me and that is the size of the wire running to the Starter. The z-figures are architecture drawings, not wiring diagrams. Wire sizes, protection sizes and assignment of loads throughout the system are all subject to analysis and adjustment depending on your particular suite of equipment and engine support requirements. If your battery(ies) are all "up front" and on a metal airplane, you can use 4AWG throughout for fat wires. Where are you planning to locate battery(ies)? More importantly, can you share the thoughts that drove you to burden this light, fast and efficient airframe with so much hardware? Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:45:54 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: VM1000 backlighting dimming
    Bob: I installed a B&C dimmer (DIM 5-14, half amp output max) on the dimming input of the VM1000 CPU connector. I got to talking with someone about the output of this device and a question came up as to exactly how close to bus voltage is output when the control is set to full output. I can't recall, is the output pulse width modulated, and if so, does the device ever achieve a full bus level output voltage? Or, if the LM317 is a linear device, is the DIM 5-14 circuit designed to achieve a full bus level output voltage when the pot is set to full output? If not what percentage of full bus voltage can I expect? Also, if the DIM 5-14 output is too low can I remove the circuit board from the equation and just connect the potentiometer (that is supplied with the DIM 5-14) between the Essential bus and the VM1000 dimming input to achieve full voltage at the VM1000 dimming input (in other words, is the potentiometer robust enough for this task or will I burn it up)? Any other words of wisdom you care to pass on? The B&C linear dimmers are based on the LM317 style 3-terminal regulators. They were intended to service incandescent lighting where 99% of operating time calls for an output on the order of 4-5 volts (just visible in the dark cockpit). These devices have about a 1.2 volt drop in the max bright condition. Suggest you wire a spdt switch to bypass the dimmer and apply full battery voltage to the VM1000 in the BRIGHT position and route to the dimmer in the DIM position. Does this dimmer have any control tasks other than to control the VM1000? Bob . . . Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:50:49 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Switch circuitry/function terminology
    At 10:39 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote: > >Wondering if anyone can give me an overview of toggle switch functionality >related to how the switching function is described. See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:00:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Switch circuitry/function terminology
    From: Andy Hawes <andy717@comcast.net>
    Perfect, thanks Bevan On 1/5/11 10:08 PM, "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: > > > Andy, > > I think what you want is a "progressive" double pole three position switch. > Scroll to the bottom of these links. > > http://www.carlingtech.com/products/switches/learn_more.asp?page=switches_ba > sic-circuit-function > > Switch function diagrams here, scroll to bottom. > > http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/cirdiagrams.pdf > > Of course many manufactures make them. I bought mine at > http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx > > These are awesome functions and very useful for aircraft. I am employing > several in my RV7A. Have fun. > > Bevan > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy > Hawes > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:40 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch circuitry/function terminology > > --> <andy717@comcast.net> > > Wondering if anyone can give me an overview of toggle switch functionality > related to how the switching function is described. > > What switching function would you want for a toggle switch in order to have > two separate circuits controlled INDEPENDENTLY, where you can leave one > circuit on while controlling another? > > i.e. -- ON -- OFF -- ON: With this switching function, wouldn't you > have to turn off one side in order to activate the other? > > Would a relay be necessary to do this, again, with ONE toggle switch? > > I believe what I am after is a double pole (two separate circuits), double > throw (two contact directions) switch, but I am confused as to how one > toggle switch can control both on/off for two separate circuits? > > Thank you! > > Andy > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:00:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Switch circuitry/function terminology
    From: Andy Hawes <andy717@comcast.net>
    Thanks Bob On 1/6/11 9:45 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 10:39 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote: >> >> Wondering if anyone can give me an overview of toggle switch functionality >> related to how the switching function is described. > > > See: > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf > > > Bob . . . > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:57:12 PM PST US
    From: "Terry Mortimore" <terry.mortimore@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Z-14 Dual Battery, dual alternator. Wire sizing,
    educate me please. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:39 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-14 Dual Battery, dual alternator. Wire sizing, educate me please. > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 06:55 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote: >><terry.mortimore@shaw.ca> >> >> >>Hi Gang: >> >>I"m about to start the installation of the Z-14 system into my RV-6A. > > > Can you tell us how your utilization of the > airplane will realize a good return on investment > for trading fuel and baggage weights for > hardware? > > >> I've absorbed and understand most of the drawing, but one thing confuses >> me and that is the size of the wire running to the Starter. > > > If your battery(ies) are all "up front" and > on a metal airplane, you can use 4AWG throughout > for fat wires. Where are you planning to locate > battery(ies)? > > More importantly, can you share the thoughts that > drove you to burden this light, fast and efficient > airframe with so much hardware? > > > Bob . . . Hi Bob, thanks for the reply. I will have a glass panel, but the most important reason for the Z-14 system is that I will be using the Flyefii. Electronic fuel injection and ignition system. Without electrical power I'm looking for a field. http://www.flyefii.com/ The plane's main mission will be 400 to 500 mile trips over northern Ontario which can be a little rough. I thought I would be using two recombinant gas batteries mounted on the firewall. The minimum that would be required to crank a IO-320 lycoming. I'll go back and have a look at the Z-13 system, but I was comfortable with the Z-14 design and I was willing to accept the added weight. I have another question which I was going to buy some of your time for. The Flyefii system is a single box which needs to be fed. I'm wondering how the best approach would be to supply power from the two electrical systems. I had invisioned two switches, a Primary and Alternate switch leading to the Flyefii system box. But I'm wondering how you would connect these two feeds to the box and also prevent back feeding power through the other system. I'm thinking a Diode on each line, but would like some input as to selection and sizing of the diodes. Thanks for the help and like I said, I'd gladly pay for some consulting time. Terry. Terry Mortimore 426 McNabb Street Apt#4 Sault Ste Marie, Ontario P6B 1Z3


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:04:42 PM PST US
    From: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
    Subject: VM1000 backlighting dimming
    Dean, et. al., I've got the exact same problem with my older VM-1000 using a B&C dimmer. I rarely fly at night, so fixing the problem has not been a priority. It seems that when I first installed the devices, it worked as advertised with plenty of night lighting. On a recent night flight, however, the VM 1000 was too dim to use. At some point, I added another device to the dimmer that supports the VM-1000. I have supposed that the additional current draw caused the problem, but as stated, I haven't taken any steps to correct. Up until recently, the VM-1000 has been supported by an outfit here in San Antonio (Boerne Stage Airport.) Thanks to my weak memory, I can't remember the name of the new outfit or the new owner, but I remember their exact location and I still have their phone number. They were very helpful a couple of years back when I first flew and helped me get a different CPU chip for the higher fuel pressure reading my AFP fuel injection required. I haven't talked to them in a couple of years, but assume they are still in operation. Their phone number is (was) 1-830-755-6330. I'll check further to see if they are still in operation and if they have any suggestions for the dimming problem. Charlie Brame RV-6A, N11CB San Antonio --------------------------------------------------------------- > Time: 10:59:08 PM PST US > From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: VM1000 backlighting dimming > > > A question for both Bob and VM1000 owners with the original (black and > white) LCD display: > > Situation: I bought the VM1000 system in 2002 but it wasn't > operating in > the airplane until 2008. Flying at dusk I notice that the LCD screen > backlighting works but is not bright enough for me to read the > display. The > VM1000 manual says the backlighting power is generated by a 0-80 > volt AC > inverter inside the VM1000 CPU box and that the inverter output is > proportional to the DC voltage on the dimming input of the CPU > connector. > The manual notes that full brightness will be achieved when close to > full > battery voltage is input at the dimming connection. Unfortunately > it does > NOT say exactly what value of "close to full battery voltage" is > required to > get full brightness. > > > Bob: > > I installed a B&C dimmer (DIM 5-14, half amp output max) on the > dimming > input of the VM1000 CPU connector. I got to talking with someone > about the > output of this device and a question came up as to exactly how close > to bus > voltage is output when the control is set to full output. I can't > recall, is > the output pulse width modulated, and if so, does the device ever > achieve a > full bus level output voltage? Or, if the LM317 is a linear device, > is the > DIM 5-14 circuit designed to achieve a full bus level output voltage > when > the pot is set to full output? If not what percentage of full bus > voltage > can I expect? Also, if the DIM 5-14 output is too low can I remove > the > circuit board from the equation and just connect the potentiometer > (that is > supplied with the DIM 5-14) between the Essential bus and the VM1000 > dimming > input to achieve full voltage at the VM1000 dimming input (in other > words, > is the potentiometer robust enough for this task or will I burn it > up)? Any > other words of wisdom you care to pass on? > > > VM1000 Owners: > > Have any of you come up against this issue? What did you do to > solve it? > Were you using a B&C dimmer or some other device? Being the original > designer/owner of Vision Microsystems sold the company and > disappeared, does > anyone know exactly what percent of battery voltage is required to > get full > output on the display? What failure modes does the display > backlighting > system exhibit (i.e. if the backlight works is it just insufficient > dimming > input voltage that makes the brightness too low or does the inverter > circuit > have failure modes that set the backlighting to some intermediate > brightness)? If so what are those failure modes and can the circuit be > repaired to restore output to full brightness. > > Thanks everyone > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > 2 years of flying fun




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