AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 01/14/11


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:52 AM - Re: Request review of Electrical Load Analysis - using Z13/8 a (plevyakh)
     2. 06:59 AM - model airplane servo (user9253)
     3. 07:32 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Mike Welch)
     4. 08:24 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Bob McCallum)
     5. 08:47 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Bill Schertz)
     6. 09:02 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 09:25 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Richard Tasker)
     8. 09:27 AM - Re: Request review of Electrical Load Analysis - using Z13/8 a (Tundra10)
     9. 10:06 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Vern Little)
    10. 11:11 AM - Re: model airplane servo (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 03:25 PM - Re: model airplane servo (Charlie England)
    12. 04:03 PM - Re: model airplane servo (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 05:32 PM - Re: model airplane servo (Charlie England)
    14. 05:47 PM - Re: Request review of Electrical Load Analysis - using Z13/8 ar  (Speedy11@aol.com)
    15. 08:44 PM - Transponder antenna signal (Speedy11@aol.com)
    16. 09:42 PM - Re: Transponder antenna signal (Don)
    17. 11:14 PM - Doug Garner & Autopilots (The Kuffels)
    18. 11:24 PM - Re: Transponder antenna signal (The Kuffels)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:52:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Request review of Electrical Load Analysis - using
    Z13/8 a
    From: "plevyakh" <hplevyak@mac.com>
    > "nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 06:48 AM 1/13/2011, you wrote: > Really that high? ...... The last detail load analysis I did on a small airplane some years ago showed a max CONTINUOUS demand of 27 amps for the worst case flight condition (IFR, pitot heat ON).... Bob, You have me thinking my scenario estimates are wrong. In my sheet I estimate Pitot heat (8amps), Strobe (7amps), and Navigation / Position lights (8amps) totaling 23amps just for that alone. I've checked with a few other builders that have similar equipment and they all told me they had to upgrade to a 60amp alternator....and that 40amp wouldn't do it. I did talk with Whelen engineering yesterday and I can get my Nav/Position lights down to 1.0 amps by switching to an LED setup. But I'm stuck with high loads for the pitot heat and strobes. I need some help with a paradigm shift on how I'm estimating these loads. I'm looking at your form and for IFR cruise I would still think I'd need to assume Pitot heat, Strobe, and Nav/Position lights as continuous loads if I were flying in the soup on a cold wet day. I'd appreciate a reality check from the list on this assumption. I'll try to rework my numbers using the flight condition approach and see how I fit using the 25% reserve factor. Thx. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar North Bend, Ohio hplevyak@mac.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326997#326997


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:59:53 AM PST US
    Subject: model airplane servo
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen servo and control its speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are any other options that might be lighter weight or smaller. Has anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane R/C servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is removed? The ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be operated by a switch without electronic controls. It should also have built-in limit switches and a position feedback pot. Maybe the Ray Allen is the best. Thanks, Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327009#327009


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:32:32 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: model airplane servo
    >Has anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane R/C serv os? > Joe Gores Hi Joe=2C A couple of years ago=2C I considered doing the same thing you are referr ing to=2C using an RC model servo for a full sized airplane. I checked them out=2C t here are a LOT of them=2C and they are usually graded by how much "pull or push" they can generate. If my memory is correct=2C I think I can remember something lik e "32 grams" as the biggest version=2C or at least a 'near' biggest version.. I did some m ore looking around=2C but I don't remember if I ever found out what the RC Allen servo' s rating was.=2C ....but after I weighed the option of trying experiment (yet again!!)=2C I decided to go with the RAC servo=2C and frankly=2C I'm glad I did! It was made precisely for my intended use=2C so no experimentation necess ary=2C and they even come with little clevis forks=2C and matching pins=2C and the kind of stuff you'd expect to find on such a devise. I suppose if a guy looked long enough=2C he may be able to find a servo t hat rates higher than 32 gms=2C but even still=2C I'd think he'd still be better off with the RAC servo. That's not to say it can't be done=2C but I think you may be installing som ething that MAY not be up to the task. Mike Welch


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:24:55 AM PST US
    From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: model airplane servo
    Joe; It does have all of those features and that is specifically its purpose, so it would be a logical choice. Any of the other options you mention would likely require adaptation and you would have to do the experimentation and reliability research already done for you by Ray Allen. In my humble opinion I would suggest you've reached the correct conclusion when you said "Maybe the Ray Allen is the best". Bob McC ---Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:57 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: model airplane servo > <fran4sew@banyanol.com> > > I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen servo and control its > speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are any other options that might be lighter > weight or smaller. Has anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane > R/C servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is removed? The > ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be operated by a switch without > electronic controls. It should also have built-in limit switches and a position feedback > pot. Maybe the Ray Allen is the best. > Thanks, Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327009#327009 > > > > > > > > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:47:50 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Schertz" <wschertz@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    Check out http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm for a controller for Futaba, etc servos. Also has trim wheels, etc. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS -----Original Message----- From: Bob McCallum Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: model airplane servo <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> Joe; It does have all of those features and that is specifically its purpose, so it would be a logical choice. Any of the other options you mention would likely require adaptation and you would have to do the experimentation and reliability research already done for you by Ray Allen. In my humble opinion I would suggest you've reached the correct conclusion when you said "Maybe the Ray Allen is the best". Bob McC ---Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:57 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: model airplane servo > <fran4sew@banyanol.com> > > I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen servo and control its > speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are any other options that might be lighter > weight or smaller. Has anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane > R/C servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is removed? The > ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be operated by a switch without > electronic controls. It should also have built-in limit switches and a position feedback > pot. Maybe the Ray Allen is the best. > Thanks, Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327009#327009 > > > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:02:51 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    At 09:56 AM 1/14/2011, you wrote: > >I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen >servo and control its speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are >any other options that might be lighter weight or smaller. Has >anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane R/C >servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is >removed? The ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be >operated by a switch without electronic controls. It should also >have built-in limit switches and a position feedback pot. Maybe the >Ray Allen is the best. I have a skunk-werks bin with about a dozen RC actuators that were used in various remote control situations over the years. These are short throw (short rotation) devices with output shafts designed to move control surfaces with a bellcrank. I have some about the size of a postage stamp that cost about $10 up to puppies like this: http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wgainf100p.pgm?I=FUTM0216 for about $100. They're spur-geared and do not LOCK position when turned off. Linear actuators like the RC Allen will not back-drive when powered down. Further, they're a bit user unfriendly as stock actuators. They run on 4.5 to 7.0 volts. The position command signal is a variable duty cycle pulse. Easy to control out of a microprocessor (or r/c receiver) not to easy from the pilot's seat. I've used these as rudimentary motor-gearbox assemblies. You can remove the stops, pot and electronics. The rudimentary assembly can then drive a lead-screw to provide a LOT of force over long distances. I guess the short answer to your question is no. But they DO offer some interesting opportunities for a variety of remote control tasks if you've got the interest and energy to stroke 'em. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:25:52 AM PST US
    From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    While the RC servos do hold their position with power off, it is not quite locked. You can move them with some force. Whether the ailerons would apply enough force to do so is a question unanswered. I would suggest you stick with the proven solution even though it is somewhat pricey compared to an RC servo. You can change the speed with PWM or if you want a true servo based on the Ray Allen design, see the same page listed below for an add-on.. Dick Tasker Bill Schertz wrote: > <wschertz@comcast.net> > > Check out http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm for a > controller for Futaba, etc servos. Also has trim wheels, etc. > > > Bill Schertz > KIS Cruiser #4045 > N343BS > > -----Original Message----- From: Bob McCallum > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:19 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: model airplane servo > > <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> > > Joe; > > It does have all of those features and that is specifically its > purpose, so > it would be a logical choice. Any of the other options you mention would > likely require adaptation and you would have to do the experimentation > and > reliability research already done for you by Ray Allen. In my humble > opinion > I would suggest you've reached the correct conclusion when you said > "Maybe > the Ray Allen is the best". > > Bob McC > > > ---Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 >> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:57 AM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: model airplane servo >> > <fran4sew@banyanol.com> >> >> I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen servo > and control its >> speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are any other options that >> might > be lighter >> weight or smaller. Has anyone had experience with linear actuators or > model airplane >> R/C servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is > removed? The >> ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be operated by a switch > without >> electronic controls. It should also have built-in limit switches and a > position feedback >> pot. Maybe the Ray Allen is the best. >> Thanks, Joe >> >> -------- >> Joe Gores >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327009#327009 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _- >> ==================================================== >> ====== >> _- >> ==================================================== >> ====== >> _- >> ==================================================== >> ====== >> _- >> ==================================================== >> ====== >> >> > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:27:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Request review of Electrical Load Analysis - using
    Z13/8 a
    From: "Tundra10" <jpx@qenesis.com>
    With glass panels, IFR and HID wig-wag headlamps (I fly with them on all the time to increase visibility and perhaps reduce bird strikes), even with LED position and collision lights, I still add up to 34A continuous in cruise. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327025#327025 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/load_analysis_onebus_a_591.pdf


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:06:33 AM PST US
    From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    I think these servos should be considered: http://store.firgelli.com I haven't used them myself, but they seem appropriate to the application. They are located a few miles from me, so one day I should go visit and give a PIREP. Vern Little -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 7:59 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: model airplane servo <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 09:56 AM 1/14/2011, you wrote: > >I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen >servo and control its speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are >any other options that might be lighter weight or smaller. Has >anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane R/C >servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is >removed? The ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be >operated by a switch without electronic controls. It should also >have built-in limit switches and a position feedback pot. Maybe the >Ray Allen is the best. I have a skunk-werks bin with about a dozen RC actuators that were used in various remote control situations over the years. These are short throw (short rotation) devices with output shafts designed to move control surfaces with a bellcrank. I have some about the size of a postage stamp that cost about $10 up to puppies like this: http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wgainf100p.pgm?I=FUTM0216 for about $100. They're spur-geared and do not LOCK position when turned off. Linear actuators like the RC Allen will not back-drive when powered down. Further, they're a bit user unfriendly as stock actuators. They run on 4.5 to 7.0 volts. The position command signal is a variable duty cycle pulse. Easy to control out of a microprocessor (or r/c receiver) not to easy from the pilot's seat. I've used these as rudimentary motor-gearbox assemblies. You can remove the stops, pot and electronics. The rudimentary assembly can then drive a lead-screw to provide a LOT of force over long distances. I guess the short answer to your question is no. But they DO offer some interesting opportunities for a variety of remote control tasks if you've got the interest and energy to stroke 'em. Bob . . . Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 19:34:00


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:11:08 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    At 01:03 PM 1/14/2011, you wrote: ><sprocket@vx-aviation.com> > >I think these servos should be considered: > >http://store.firgelli.com > >I haven't used them myself, but they seem appropriate to the >application. They are located a few miles from me, so one day I >should go visit and give a PIREP. These look interesting . . . especially since they're offered with built in servo electronics to integrate into a variety of voltages and control protocols (including R/C variable pulse width). They DO report a back-driving force value but it's probably very high compared to working loads. It would be interesting to know what lead-screw configuration they are using. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:25:33 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    On 1/14/2011 8:56 AM, user9253 wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253"<fran4sew@banyanol.com> > > I want to install electric aileron trim. I could buy a Ray Allen servo and control its speed with PWM. I was wondering if there are any other options that might be lighter weight or smaller. Has anyone had experience with linear actuators or model airplane R/C servos? Do the RC model servos hold their position when power is removed? The ideal 12vdc servo would be slow moving and would be operated by a switch without electronic controls. It should also have built-in limit switches and a position feedback pot. Maybe the Ray Allen is the best. > Thanks, Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores Hi Joe, My 1st homebuilt was a (purchased) Thorp T-18 that had a homebuilt autopilot (wing leveler) and aileron trim system using a trim tab on one aileron. It used a standard model a/c servo, just like what you're probably thinking about. The autopilot used an ingenious pneumatic/thermal rate sensor as its heart. A stream of air moving between two thermal sensors made up the rate sensor. The system had roll trim that used a generic potentiometer to drive the servo controller. The autopilot section wasn't functional when I bought the plane (it had been stored for about 5 years before I bought it), but the trim feature worked just fine for the short time I owned the plane. Failure modes were never explored by me, because it just worked. If you're handy with electronics and the application of tools to small projects, I can't see why you can't add a worm drive to the servo if it would make you feel more comfortable. Or, you could just do flutter testing on a trim tab type system with power removed from the servo (which you'll need to do anyway, if you add any kind of trim tab to the aileron). It's not likely that you would have any luck mounting the trim tab on the wing tip itself (it's been tried by others; there just isn't enough aerodynamic authority unless the tab is almost as big as the aileron). BTW, a neighbor has a homebuilt that has the same autopilot design as my Thorp, but with the addition of a homebuilt magnetic heading source that allowed the autopilot to actually follow a magnetic heading. Compared to the 'oldtimers', we young 50-60 year-old 'experimenters' are just delivery guys for Ikea. :-) Charlie


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:03:25 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    >ust isn't enough aerodynamic authority unless the tab is almost as >big as the aileron). > >BTW, a neighbor has a homebuilt that has the same autopilot design >as my Thorp, but with the addition of a homebuilt magnetic heading >source that allowed the autopilot to actually follow a magnetic heading. > >Compared to the 'oldtimers', we young 50-60 year-old 'experimenters' >are just delivery guys for Ikea. :-) Charlie, The system you've described sounds like a DIY system designed conceived by a NASA engineer named Doug Garner. I think it was written up in several issues of Sport Aviation circa 1980. Doug developed a home brew rate sensor based on a small speaker huffing on a venturi to produce a steady stream of air between two de-bulbed lamps used as hot-wire anemometers. He also crafted a flux gate compass for magnetic heading hold. Very clever stuff. I met him briefly at OSH about 1986 or so. The autopilot brains was an 8-bit micro-controller. Today we have solid state rate sensors, silicon magnetometers and GPS serial data to effect VERY precise course hold. Of course, the R/C servos have become still more robust and many feature all metal gear trains. I think I've got copies of his articles buried somewhere. I ought to scan them and put them up on the website as historical data. Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:32:16 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: model airplane servo
    On 1/14/2011 4:59 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > >> ust isn't enough aerodynamic authority unless the tab is almost as >> big as the aileron). >> >> BTW, a neighbor has a homebuilt that has the same autopilot design as >> my Thorp, but with the addition of a homebuilt magnetic heading >> source that allowed the autopilot to actually follow a magnetic heading. >> >> Compared to the 'oldtimers', we young 50-60 year-old 'experimenters' >> are just delivery guys for Ikea. :-) > > Charlie, > > The system you've described sounds like a DIY system designed > conceived by a NASA engineer named Doug Garner. I think it was > written up in several issues of Sport Aviation circa 1980. > Doug developed a home brew rate sensor based on a small speaker > huffing on a venturi to produce a steady stream of air between > two de-bulbed lamps used as hot-wire anemometers. He also crafted > a flux gate compass for magnetic heading hold. Very clever stuff. > I met him briefly at OSH about 1986 or so. The autopilot brains > was an 8-bit micro-controller. > > Today we have solid state rate sensors, silicon magnetometers > and GPS serial data to effect VERY precise course hold. Of > course, the R/C servos have become still more robust and many > feature all metal gear trains. I think I've got copies of > his articles buried somewhere. I ought to scan them and > put them up on the website as historical data. > > > Bob . . . I think you're right about the source; I have read the articles. I have the schematics & wiring diagrams somewhere; if I stumble upon them I'll scan & forward. I even have the 'heart' of the hardware somewhere; I'll try to send some pics of that, too. IIRC, the rate sensor was built into a coffee can. :-) I'm certainly not advocating a return that technology; I was just trying to point out how little real experimenting we really do these days. Charlie


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:47:26 PM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Request review of Electrical Load Analysis - using
    Z13/8 ar Howard, I'm surprised your anticipated load is going to be so high. My IFR RV-8A only uses about 32A with everything on. I use the 60A Plane Power Alt and it is loafing. If you are recommending LEDs to be used for landing lights, I'd suggest builders consider HID instead. I have both on my airplane and, as much as I like them, the LEDs are not yet up to the task of landing light. They are great for radiance, but do not illuminate well. The power and optics are just not quite sufficient. I use the LEDs for taxi and recognition lights. They wig wag much better than HIDs and light up using a square wave which makes them visible and discernable at long distance. The HIDs, although expensive, are excellent for landing illumination. Regards, Stan Sutterfield _www.rv-8a.net_ (http://www.rv-8a.net) Thanks I'll add those items. I'm going to go without the cooling fan initially and see how the avionics fare. I might have to add later. For those planning IFR w/ similar equipment....it looks like the LC-60 amp alternator is a must due to the high current consumption of the pitot heat, navigation, strobe, and landing lights. For anyone who has not yet purchased equipment you'll want to buy LED style, and maybe the Gretz Aero pitot heat system to keep the amps down. I'm going to switch to the B&C LC-60 amp alternator and plan for a max continuous electrical load of 80-85% or 48 to 51 amps. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:44:58 PM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Transponder antenna signal
    Bob - or other antenna gurus, I want to streamline my transponder antenna. I have the short (3 inch) stub antenna with the ball on the tip. To streamline it I'm going to make an epoxy resin fiberglass covering that will look like a blade antenna. Please confirm for me that streamlining with a fiberglass covering will not affect signal performance. Thanks, Stan Sutterfield


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:42:00 PM PST US
    From: "Don" <dsvs@ca.rr.com>
    Subject: Transponder antenna signal
    Stan, Can't answer your question but check out this site for a streamlined antenna. www.deltapopaviation.com From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 8:41 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder antenna signal Bob - or other antenna gurus, I want to streamline my transponder antenna. I have the short (3 inch) stub antenna with the ball on the tip. To streamline it I'm going to make an epoxy resin fiberglass covering that will look like a blade antenna. Please confirm for me that streamlining with a fiberglass covering will not affect signal performance. Thanks, Stan Sutterfield


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:14:10 PM PST US
    From: "The Kuffels" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
    Subject: Doug Garner & Autopilots
    Off Topic, Do Not Archive Bob, Had the distinct honor of collaborating with Dr. Garner (Humble Tinkerer) on a few very minor parts of his electro-fluidic autopilots. He was taken aback when he got a phone call (no email in 1974) from this guy in Alaska asking about some construction details from his original technical paper (NASA TN D-7460). Even weirder, we had a common interest in the fluidics work done at the US Army Harry Diamond Laboratory. He provided the special material and lots of encouragement needed to get my first example working. I had a devil of a time trying to get the prototype of my improved version of the toroidal core magnetometer working until I realized it was sitting on my workbench surface... just above a drawer full of steel tools. Duh. A few remarks: << system designed conceived by a NASA engineer named Doug Garner. I think it was written up in several issues of Sport Aviation circa 1980. >> Try Sport Aviation for Mar 74, June 78, Aug 80, Nov 81 & Dec 81. Only the last 3 have construction details. His forum notes were much more detailed, including printed circuit layouts. << Doug developed a home brew rate sensor .. a steady stream of air between two de-bulbed lamps used as hot-wire anemometers.>> Most of his examples used thermistors which at $3@ were more expensive but a lot easier to deal with than trying to remove the glass from a bulb. << He also crafted a flux gate compass for magnetic heading hold. Very clever stuff. >> Very clever indeed. He was the first to use for this application digital division of a high frequency square wave to easily come up with the special phase separated primary driving signals needed by this magnetometer. It was a major simplification. Believe he/NASA got a patent on the idea. << The autopilot brains was an 8-bit micro-controller. >> Actually, he never published plans for an autopilot using a micro-controller. He did describe a digital compass (Sport Aviation Nov 86) without details. He may have provided more information on building the compass at one of his Oshkosh forums but nothing on a micro-controller autopilot.. Doug is now fully retired from NASA but still lives with his wife Harlene in Newport News, Va. If anyone wants to send him a card please tell me off-list and I'll give you his mailing address. Sorry for the diversion down memory lane but Doug deserves remembering. Don't get me started on other Garner stories about fighting NASA management, steam cars, developing rockets or his early flying (can you spell Pietenpol). Tom Kuffel


    Message 18


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    Time: 11:24:09 PM PST US
    From: "The Kuffels" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
    Subject: Re: Transponder antenna signal
    Stan, << streamline my transponder antenna... streamlining with a fiberglass covering will not affect signal performance. >> As long as you don't use any paint/ingredients containing metal or carbon there shouldn't be any observable difference. Tom Kuffel




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